Not gonna lie, I chuckled a bit at that.
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The Everything NHL Thread
- Thread starter Jackal
- Start date
Not gonna lie, I chuckled a bit at that.
Sometimes goalies have inexplicable stats against certain teams, there can be a single-team bias like that. Just look at Khabibulin's record against the Flames, it's absurd (it was even more skewed before his stint with the oilers). I'm not saying that's what happened here, just giving you an example of why such a small and bias-prone sample is a horrible thing. Rinne has been amazing, no denying it, but having a defensive-minded team with a great defensive core certainly doesn't do anything but boost his numbers. I did read the small sample part, that's what I ridiculed you for.
Chara has won the Norris without Thomas performing like that. He has been an elite defenseman for years. He has been nominated several times and usually manages to score like 15-20 goals within those seasons, yet this is the first time he's had the statistically best goalie in the league backing him. The stats are all available, they don't lie. Weber has had one hell of a coming out season, he's been fully worthy of the nomination. As with any NHL award, I'm sure there is some degree of political drive behind it, but it's not like the guy isn't worthy. You could just as easily make the observation that Rinne's numbers were bolstered by Weber's play, taking away many dangerous opportunities and collapsing on the play, preventing second chances. It's impossible to say who may have bolstered who, they are both incredible and play well together.
A leader tends to get the nod more than not, almost all of the nominee's are captains (typically). A 'C' Looks better in the eyes of the nomination than an 'A'. Suter is a tremendous defenseman, I'd HATE to be a forward working against him, so I don't wanna say he's not deserving of accolades at all.
in 82 games, Shea Weber had: 16 goals, 32 assists, +7 and 52 PIM.
in 82 games, Ryan Suter had: 4 goals, 35 assists, +20 and 54 PIM.
Sadly, goals carry more weight for the Norris than +/- or just about any other stat to be honest. Sort of like with the Hart, all the NHL cares about is goal scoring. You do have to piggyback it with a high level of play as a defenseman though. As an example, you'd never have seen Robyn Regehr qualify for the Norris, even in his prime, because while he may have shut down everything in sight, his 2 goals per year are so lacking based on the criteria. It's a sad reality, I've often thought that there should be two defensive awards: Stay at home and offensive.
(sorry for double post, having HUGE internet problems with the hotel I'm in- they are fucking with speed and I had to resort to firefox> chrome just to use facebook! I'm doing my best, but there is a lot of content so I hope it's okay)
I'm pleased that the nhl decided to ask the 'green men' in vancouver to stop being dicks. It is validating to know that everyone else is sick of vancouver fans too.
Third period game 2 and weber/suter were deployed against kesler and burrows, not the Sedins. I guess its telling that the sedins have been downgraded as a threat but ALSO telling that Burrows and kesler can be that threatening in their stead. Vancouver playing some great defensive hockey, though it is against a defensive team so grain of salt and all that. It may be passable against Nashville, at the moment, but against a team like Detroit Vancouver would be eaten alive (assuming they can't field two top lines even).
The announcers are dumb in this game, saying it's all Luongo holding them off. He's doing his job, yeah, but he can see all those outside shots and they aren't exactly the hardest he's ever faced. That means it's the defense stymieing the Preds. Obviously the Preds play a defensive/disruptive style and if the Canucks can prevent themselves from being annoyed and flipping out like they did against Chicago then they should have this series easily. (edit: Jesus fuck nice save by Luongo on Tootoo! :D)
Also Crosby had to stop skating?? Post concussion syndrome can ruin a career...I wouldn't miss him, but I'm sure Gatorade, Sport Chek and others would.
What do you guys think about standardizing goalie helmets? I hope the NHLPA isn't stupid enough to stop this movement. Make a minimum (see: good) standard, I say, and then let goalies do whatever the fuck they want. CBC compared it to visors on player helmets, but that's a bad comparison. It is quite literally more comparable to making players wear helmets and then letting them go from there.
Edit: WOW bad goal against the Canucks. Just bolsters my view that it was more of the defense keeping Nashville to poorer chances than Luongo doing anything above average for a goalie (and thusly bolsters my previous post about how a great defensive team can bolster a goalie's appearance). I hate to say it, but Don Cherry pointed out that Nashville is winning in: Faceoffs, Shots on net, Shot blocking and chances overall. Hell, they held freaking VANCOUVER to 15 shots in 3 periods, which is abysmal. I tell yah, if the Sedins get firing on all cylinders that team will be a juggernaut but if they don't figure their shit out Vancouver could find itself in trouble, as shutting down one dynamic line (kesler/burrows) is easier than shutting down two.
You know, Vancouver seems more passive than they should be. I don't know what it is...I know Rinne is a beast with that defense backing him, but I really think Vancouver is the better team. I wonder what gives? Perhaps Nashville's strategy of disrupt and defend is actually working, at least to create problems with Vancouvers offense? I just wonder if maybe Nashville's lack of ability to score reflects more of a desire to passively pepper rather than aggressively charge like Tootoo did on his seemingly own accord?
more edits: In OT, Vancouver seems to be double shifting Kesler/Burrows as much as possible. That is a sign of desperation, fatigue could catch up with him. Jesus christ, defensive team be damned, Vancouver (including Sedins) are making a move...and Rinne is both lucky AND good. Also: Shea Weber stopping Burrows 1v1 is a great reason as to why he's a Norris candidate- guy fucking outstepped Burrows, a great skater, so bad that Burrows fell over.
final edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa fuck yeah take that goddamn fanboy Vancouver/Luongo fans, a couple of plays Luongo shoulda had. GO NASHVILLE
I'm pleased that the nhl decided to ask the 'green men' in vancouver to stop being dicks. It is validating to know that everyone else is sick of vancouver fans too.
Third period game 2 and weber/suter were deployed against kesler and burrows, not the Sedins. I guess its telling that the sedins have been downgraded as a threat but ALSO telling that Burrows and kesler can be that threatening in their stead. Vancouver playing some great defensive hockey, though it is against a defensive team so grain of salt and all that. It may be passable against Nashville, at the moment, but against a team like Detroit Vancouver would be eaten alive (assuming they can't field two top lines even).
The announcers are dumb in this game, saying it's all Luongo holding them off. He's doing his job, yeah, but he can see all those outside shots and they aren't exactly the hardest he's ever faced. That means it's the defense stymieing the Preds. Obviously the Preds play a defensive/disruptive style and if the Canucks can prevent themselves from being annoyed and flipping out like they did against Chicago then they should have this series easily. (edit: Jesus fuck nice save by Luongo on Tootoo! :D)
Also Crosby had to stop skating?? Post concussion syndrome can ruin a career...I wouldn't miss him, but I'm sure Gatorade, Sport Chek and others would.
What do you guys think about standardizing goalie helmets? I hope the NHLPA isn't stupid enough to stop this movement. Make a minimum (see: good) standard, I say, and then let goalies do whatever the fuck they want. CBC compared it to visors on player helmets, but that's a bad comparison. It is quite literally more comparable to making players wear helmets and then letting them go from there.
Edit: WOW bad goal against the Canucks. Just bolsters my view that it was more of the defense keeping Nashville to poorer chances than Luongo doing anything above average for a goalie (and thusly bolsters my previous post about how a great defensive team can bolster a goalie's appearance). I hate to say it, but Don Cherry pointed out that Nashville is winning in: Faceoffs, Shots on net, Shot blocking and chances overall. Hell, they held freaking VANCOUVER to 15 shots in 3 periods, which is abysmal. I tell yah, if the Sedins get firing on all cylinders that team will be a juggernaut but if they don't figure their shit out Vancouver could find itself in trouble, as shutting down one dynamic line (kesler/burrows) is easier than shutting down two.
You know, Vancouver seems more passive than they should be. I don't know what it is...I know Rinne is a beast with that defense backing him, but I really think Vancouver is the better team. I wonder what gives? Perhaps Nashville's strategy of disrupt and defend is actually working, at least to create problems with Vancouvers offense? I just wonder if maybe Nashville's lack of ability to score reflects more of a desire to passively pepper rather than aggressively charge like Tootoo did on his seemingly own accord?
more edits: In OT, Vancouver seems to be double shifting Kesler/Burrows as much as possible. That is a sign of desperation, fatigue could catch up with him. Jesus christ, defensive team be damned, Vancouver (including Sedins) are making a move...and Rinne is both lucky AND good. Also: Shea Weber stopping Burrows 1v1 is a great reason as to why he's a Norris candidate- guy fucking outstepped Burrows, a great skater, so bad that Burrows fell over.
final edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa fuck yeah take that goddamn fanboy Vancouver/Luongo fans, a couple of plays Luongo shoulda had. GO NASHVILLE
NHL to institute shootout in playoff games after Nucks/Preds game 2 goes on for 27 OTs
I hope you're the tiniest of minorities.
What has crosby done for hockey besides product endorsements? He's a great player, yeah, but great players are becoming increasingly common. He is completely overrated, I'd appreciate him way more if he was taken at face value (which is still great, but not what he is made out to be).
Edit: To be clear: I hope he comes back, I think he's great, but I just didn't want to make him seem like some adonis of hockey like he is made out to be. Not to mention Iginla and Criesby are prime time in Olympics, so I'd hate for Iggy to HAVE to find new chemistry.
Edit: To be clear: I hope he comes back, I think he's great, but I just didn't want to make him seem like some adonis of hockey like he is made out to be. Not to mention Iginla and Criesby are prime time in Olympics, so I'd hate for Iggy to HAVE to find new chemistry.
He's young. Ryan (same fucking draft, iirc) has proved his caliber, as has Stamkos. I really respect a player that can consistently bring it, like Iginla, who just tied one of Jagr's records (consecutive 30 goal+ seasons). I mean hell, I seem to recall a player named Lindros that was regarded as a messiah of the league for several seasons before ending his career early because of concussions.
There is a never ending supply of talent for this league, which is awesome, but it also makes superstars disposable, sadly. I realized this when I talked to a Detroit fan who had no idea who Yzerman was but thought Datsyuk was the best they've ever had in a forward. I've been around long enough to see some real talent like Hull, Lemeeoohex, Kariya, Yzerman and (soon) Selanne disappear and I am someone who respects consistency as true talent. I may one day eat my words and think of Crosby as the half billion dollar "Adonis" that he appears.
There is a never ending supply of talent for this league, which is awesome, but it also makes superstars disposable, sadly. I realized this when I talked to a Detroit fan who had no idea who Yzerman was but thought Datsyuk was the best they've ever had in a forward. I've been around long enough to see some real talent like Hull, Lemeeoohex, Kariya, Yzerman and (soon) Selanne disappear and I am someone who respects consistency as true talent. I may one day eat my words and think of Crosby as the half billion dollar "Adonis" that he appears.
I can no longer sit around and let all of these horrible Morm posts go by like this. I've ignored his retarded Calgary fanboyisms for long enough. I've ignored his dumb whining about Vancouver and their fans. I've ignored his absurd opinion on the Ference hit as well as countless other things.
Comparing Sidney Crosby to Steven Stamkos and Bobby Ryan has to be the stupidest thing he has posted yet though. Holy crap. Bobby Ryan and Steven Stamkos have played their entire careers surrounded by insane talent. Stamkos has one of the best playmakers ever in the NHL on his line almost every game. Bobby Ryan plays with Getzlaf and Perry. Crosby plays with.....? Mike Comrie? Chris Kunitz? Tyler Kennedy? I don't even know man. Every now and then Malkin and Crosby are on the same line, but other than that, Crosby is out there putting up 100+ point seasons EVERY YEAR with NOBODIES (In seasons which he missed games, he was still on pace for 100+ points.) Stamkos and Ryan have not put up 100+ points in a season YET with SUPERSTARS.
Give me a break. I don't care how much anybody hates Crosby, he is clearly the best player in the game and nobody else comes close.
Comparing Sidney Crosby to Steven Stamkos and Bobby Ryan has to be the stupidest thing he has posted yet though. Holy crap. Bobby Ryan and Steven Stamkos have played their entire careers surrounded by insane talent. Stamkos has one of the best playmakers ever in the NHL on his line almost every game. Bobby Ryan plays with Getzlaf and Perry. Crosby plays with.....? Mike Comrie? Chris Kunitz? Tyler Kennedy? I don't even know man. Every now and then Malkin and Crosby are on the same line, but other than that, Crosby is out there putting up 100+ point seasons EVERY YEAR with NOBODIES (In seasons which he missed games, he was still on pace for 100+ points.) Stamkos and Ryan have not put up 100+ points in a season YET with SUPERSTARS.
Give me a break. I don't care how much anybody hates Crosby, he is clearly the best player in the game and nobody else comes close.
As probably the Penguins biggest hater among the common posters in this thread I certainly wouldn't want this to be career ending for Crosby. Ignoring the fact he's vastly superior to the others players mentioned -- no one but Malkin and Ovechkin from his age group has really proven to be in the same class -- a career ending injury is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a player, and while I don't respect Crosby as a player much because of the diving and the whining I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone. He's certainly not expendable to the league as far as recognition to casual fans either, with the amount of money that's been invested in him, and as people like to forget this is still a business, especially since we're still recovering from the lockout. His skill is hardly expendable either -- did you even see the numbers he was putting up last year? No one has even been close to that post lockout and it would likely have been one of the best seasons of all time had he been able to finish it in spite of the fact he plays with a bunch of scrubs. I'll probably eat these words once he's healthy and he gets about 200 points with James Neal on his wing but still.
Probably worth noting too, but there's something to hating players in sports anyway. At any given time you only have one or two teams you care about to root FOR, but as far as enemies to root AGAINST... there can be a never ending supply of those and Crosby is a factor there for a lot of people.
Probably worth noting too, but there's something to hating players in sports anyway. At any given time you only have one or two teams you care about to root FOR, but as far as enemies to root AGAINST... there can be a never ending supply of those and Crosby is a factor there for a lot of people.
And as for the Vancouver Green Men, I guess it's illegal to think of creative ways to taunt the opposition without physically hurting them in anyway. Get off their backs, they bring humour into the game and if the opposition gets mad because of them, they've accomplished what they've come to do, and the other team needs to be more disciplined.
And I won't bother flogging a dead horse, since the rest of you kind of covered that.
I think fanboyism would require talking about the team they are a fanboy of. Can you show me explicitly where I was a fanboy of the flames? I mention Iginla because he hit the 1000 point mark and tied Jagr for number of consecutive 30 goal+ seasons this year. He isn't even 35 yet, it is a legitimate marker of a great player. Stats don't lie.
All I did was agree with DM about the Ference hit, so go bitch to him- he hit the nail on the head and made a good case.
Bobby Ryan the top scoring forward this year, right? So crosby casts a shadow on players scoring 50 goals+ per season? Give me a break. You wanna talk about fanboyism, how about looking in your own backyard. Ignoring statistics just to say "Sidney Crosby is incomparably good" is pretty much the definition of fanboyism. Use some fucking objectivity.
Malkin. Guerin isn't exactly the worst player in the league, he has had a fantastic career.
Ovechkin clearly does and Iginla puts up 40+ goal seasons with backing of Tanguay and Jokinen on a team that ranked 2nd last for a few weeks? I never said I hated him, I said I wouldn't miss him.
eraddd said:
Yeah I kinda ate my words a bit last night, he was INSANELY good and a little lucky which makes for a scary goaltender.
Well I think it's a matter of the gimmick getting old and people getting tired of seeing the same handstand crotch shot every time we go to the box camera. All that really came down was that they aren't allowed to bang on the glass, which I think would benefit EVERYONE. I am so sick of chimp-like people hammering on the glass every time a player comes near. I'm all for heckling a player but this is actually annoying to fans. I know I'd get sick of it after a full season of them flipping around in skin tight suits.
Synre said:
Bobby Ryan was drafted in Crosby's Draft. Stamkos is just a few years behind. It really does depend on where you cut the generational gap, but there are some really talented players on the ice right now. I honestly don't think Crosby casts a shadow over players scoring around 40-50 goals per season. Sure, he's in the mix and of that caliber, but I really don't think he's the best. That seems to be a year to year dogfight.
Honestly guys this is what I said:
morm said:
I said he's great, I hope he comes back but I don't think he's the best. You wanna talk about fanboyism, putting words in my mouth and then attacking me for them as if it isn't a straw man ranks up there for sure.
wowzies. im done with this thread. im sure anybody with half of a brain will be around to make you look foolish sometime in the near future.
Yeah I confused him with Perry, good catch. All those ducks guys are the same fucking thing to me, my mistake! 8th in the NHL is STILL a reasonable comparison to Crosby, unless Crosby scores like 25 more goals than them. Perry is still comparable to crosby too, as he's in the same age group (I'd say anyone 25 and under at the moment is).
Stamkos had a hell of a season, he's still comparable to crosby.
here is where the logic comes from:
Crosby is not consistently the number one guy in the league, nor is he statistically the best every single year. He is therefore not overall the best player (well he may be if the stats are averaged, but I suspect not), but is rather a member of an elite cohort of (est) 10-15 players that are statistically comparable and all capable of being the number one player in any given year. I honestly prefer looking at it year to year, as a lot of shit can change, and then over an entire career as hindsight will show who the best of this era truly was.
I mean I'm not saying he's not the best to piss people off, I'd love for someone to come in and show me why he is deserving of being hailed as hockey's best current player.
Stamkos had a hell of a season, he's still comparable to crosby.
here is where the logic comes from:
Crosby is not consistently the number one guy in the league, nor is he statistically the best every single year. He is therefore not overall the best player (well he may be if the stats are averaged, but I suspect not), but is rather a member of an elite cohort of (est) 10-15 players that are statistically comparable and all capable of being the number one player in any given year. I honestly prefer looking at it year to year, as a lot of shit can change, and then over an entire career as hindsight will show who the best of this era truly was.
I mean I'm not saying he's not the best to piss people off, I'd love for someone to come in and show me why he is deserving of being hailed as hockey's best current player.
Crosby played half a season (41 games) which was enough for him to lead his team scoring by 16 points.
Had he played 82 games with the same numbers, he would have scored 64 goals and 68 assists (132 points), quite a whole lot more than Perry did, who like Justin mentionned, plays with much better players. He likely would have scored more points than anyone even with a much less productive second half.
The last time more than 130 points were scored dates back to 1995-96 and Mario Lemieux.
The only comparisons I'd accept are those with Alexander Ovechkin. There is no way in hell Crosby is in a similar pool of talent with as much as 14 other forwards.
Had he played 82 games with the same numbers, he would have scored 64 goals and 68 assists (132 points), quite a whole lot more than Perry did, who like Justin mentionned, plays with much better players. He likely would have scored more points than anyone even with a much less productive second half.
The last time more than 130 points were scored dates back to 1995-96 and Mario Lemieux.
The only comparisons I'd accept are those with Alexander Ovechkin. There is no way in hell Crosby is in a similar pool of talent with as much as 14 other forwards.
I don't care if you're a guy in a green suit or a 5-year-old kid at your first ever hockey game, I fucking DESPISE people who bang on the glass.
Very cool to see the Preds getting a bunch of fans welcoming them back from the airport.
Interesting fact presented during the TSN broadcast of the PHI-BOS game:
The pitchers for the Phillies have more complete game wins this season than the goaltenders for the Flyers do in the playoffs, 3 to 2. I chuckled when I heard it, figure maybe someone else will too.
The pitchers for the Phillies have more complete game wins this season than the goaltenders for the Flyers do in the playoffs, 3 to 2. I chuckled when I heard it, figure maybe someone else will too.