Umbreon

With trap passing gone, pretty much everything Umbreon can do, Vaporeon can do better. Umbreon has gotten progressively worse every generation =/
Please explain why this isn't the case for what you said, Quaily. :0 Frankly, I'd like to believe you, but I'm rather optimistically skeptical about Umbreon this gen. Dx
 
Please explain why this isn't the case for what you said, Quaily. :0 Frankly, I'd like to believe you, but I'm rather optimistically skeptical about Umbreon this gen. Dx
Wish Passing - Vaporean has higher HP
Defense - Roughly balances out the same but Vaporean has a better typing
Offense - No contest Vaporean is superior in movepool and stats.
Sub Passing - Again Vaporean has higher HP.
Cleric - DW Vaporean being able to have Hydration makes him better at Heal Bell being immune to sleep too. Also Synchronize can backfire sometimes...

Umbreon literally has nothing going for it this gen, its heading for a one way course towards NU to join Flareon.
 

PK Gaming

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at least umbreon can now be UU

he'll be much happier there. You know, where things are actually walled by him.
Umbreon was a fine candidate for UU last gen but he kept getting overused by noobs thus condemning him to a tier he wasn't even good at :/

Hopefully he might be a good UU pokemon in gen 5.
 
How he wasn't given poison heal I dont no :( would have been great ability and dex entry even talks about poisons shocking.

Also wish he got switcheroo or trick but thats mainly the battle tower freak in me speaking Haha

Shame looks like he'l be falling down the tiers :(
 
Can Umbreon have Yawn and Pursuit on the same set this gen?
Because that would be its viability right there.
Set up hazards.
Yawn, Pursuit on switch. Pursuit does tons of damage, you shuffled (effectively) and hazards damage.
Repeat endessly. If opponent finally lets someone sleep, You could sub and pass or boost and pass or something.

This is all of course if umbreon can use yawn and pursuit on the same set.
 
Tons of damage? Not really. Umbreon has what, 60 attack? It will do like 2% to scizor if you even survive the u-turn. Besides, just using pursuit breaks the phasing cycle. You're better off just yawning repeatedly to keep forcing switches to rack up hazard damage?
 
Inner Focus is just a troll. Every eevolution (bar jolteon, true) have received a usable ability. He couldve received something like MH, Poison Heal, Regeneration, Magic Guard or even Aftermath (would be better than Synchro for some situations...)

Well, he havent, so i bet he will work the same wat he did in last gen, but obviously without the trap passer function: wall, curser, yawn shuffler and cleric. All of those are outclassed by Vaporeon/pinkblobs and Tyranitar/Hippo/Natto/Swampert (lol) even though his Sdef can be useful to a curser set.
 
Can Umbreon have Yawn and Pursuit on the same set this gen?
Because that would be its viability right there.
Set up hazards.
Yawn, Pursuit on switch. Pursuit does tons of damage, you shuffled (effectively) and hazards damage.
Repeat endessly. If opponent finally lets someone sleep, You could sub and pass or boost and pass or something.

This is all of course if umbreon can use yawn and pursuit on the same set.
yes, it always could back in generation III. However, there's just too many problems, mostly the same ones that have existed in generation IV. In IV, he suffered from the powerful new fighting attacks that threatened to ko him. in this new generation, you have an immense number of powerful new bug and fighting types. In addition, Umbreon's recovery moves are unreliable. With his low speed, taunt renders him useless. And now, magic mirror.... puts him to shame. So its difficult to do the above, but as many have been saying, UU should be more than adequate for him.
 
I assumed it would go like this.
X used Y
Umbreon used Yawn.
X tries to switch out to avoid obvious sleep
Umbreon Used Pursuit. Pursuit gets boost because X is switching.

New pokemon comes in. Repeat.
With Umbreon's bulk and healing + entry hazards this is a super interesting possibility.
 
You'll be Yawning common switch-ins for Umbreon. Those include Fighting-types and Steel-types (among others), so Pursuit isn't going to do shit.
 
You'll be Yawning common switch-ins for Umbreon. Those include Fighting-types and Steel-types (among others), so Pursuit isn't going to do shit.
But the entry hazards will.

Regardless, yawn, pursuit, protect and wish seems pretty good for shuffling, or any walling set, really.

I can imagine Umbreon becoming a, if not THE, premier UU special wall because it's immune to Psycho Shock, and with its massive special defense, it should be able to take a focus blast from the likes of Alakazam while you yawn and then pursuit or protect.
 
It does bug me that it got such a terrible new ability. Espeon got SUCH AN AWESOME ABILITY... but Umbreon... it could have gotten regeneration or MH, but no, they give it the one ability that is ONLY viable against fake out leads and Jirachi. And seriously, who uses Umbreon as a lead?

And then... they got rid of trap passing. Thanks for kicking it while its down.

Synchro bell is the only real unique thing it can do.


I love Umbreon. Its my favorite Eeveelution, and actually one of my favorite pokemon. I used it in OU in gen 4 (and still do sometimes now for gen 5), utilizing the curse+payback+wish+BP combo, but more so just for fun. Curse+Payback isnt completely useless either, as I have pulled sweeps with this combination multiple times. Sadly, other pokemon do it better...

When I first started trying out gen 5, I had trouble with a couple battles against Umbreon, in which my ditto was useless against it, and I didn't have any phaser. The best I could do was toxic it and wait for it to die while holding it off as long as I could. That is no longer the case for me anymore, thank goodness.
 
I love Umbreon. Its my favorite Eeveelution, and actually one of my favorite pokemon. I used it in OU in gen 4 (and still do sometimes now for gen 5), utilizing the curse+payback+wish+BP combo, but more so just for fun.
PK Gaming said:
Umbreon was a fine candidate for UU last gen but he kept getting overused by noobs thus condemning him to a tier he wasn't even good at :/
 
@iDunno: Yes, thanks, I read that earlier, thank you for pointing it out like that. Because thats cool.

I did not say I used him because I thought he was good. Sometimes people play pokemon they actually like. You know? Pokemon they actually enjoy?
 
I assumed it would go like this.
X used Y
Umbreon used Yawn.
X tries to switch out to avoid obvious sleep
Umbreon Used Pursuit. Pursuit gets boost because X is switching.

New pokemon comes in. Repeat.
With Umbreon's bulk and healing + entry hazards this is a super interesting possibility.
I see two problems with this.... one is this:
You'll be Yawning common switch-ins for Umbreon. Those include Fighting-types and Steel-types (among others), so Pursuit isn't going to do shit.
And the other one is... what if X opts to stay in and take the sleep? :0 Yawn is now effectively useless as a shuffling move.
If X switches out after taking sleep, Yawn can't be used.
If X stays in, Umbreon can't really do shit anyway since it has a weak attack stat and can't Toxic stuff that's already asleep.

@iDunno: Yes, thanks, I read that earlier, thank you for pointing it out like that. Because thats cool.

I did not say I used him because I thought he was good. Sometimes people play pokemon they actually like. You know? Pokemon they actually enjoy?
I hear you, brother. Like how I run Flygon in my 5th Gen teams, even though every dragon-type and their mother pretty much outclasses him now... ;__;
 
at least umbreon can now be UU

he'll be much happier there. You know, where things are actually walled by him.
This.

Flareon has infected some of the other eeveelution's with GF's trolling. I can't believe they didn't give Umbreon Foul Play (I also can't believe they didn't give Jolteon Electro Ball, but that's for a different thread). I mean, Umbreon would of really liked it. Right now, the only thing Umbreon has over Vaporeon is Confuse Ray. Confuse Ray coupled with Foul Play would of given physical attackers nightmares. Oh, well. Let's hope he gets it in Clear/Grey.


EDIT: Oh, wait, I lied. Umbreon does have one other thing over Vaporeon. He can be a very good wall in Drought teams. But, even then, he's contested by Cresselia. Cresselia has better bulk and the ability to burn, whereas Umbreon has Heal Bell and Yawn.
 
I think Umbreon might actually start seeing a surge in use in OU for one very, very key reason:

Rotom-W

Yes, Lati@s and Virizion all switch in on its STABS much better than Umbreon.
But they all despise Paralysis and Burns. Umbreon with Synchronize? Not so much.
And with Heal Bell at its disposal, it cares even less.

Yes, Chansey/Blissey can also shrug off the status, but it's putting the status on Rotom that is essential. A paralyzed Rotom-W has a lot of problems sweeping, plus the chance of full paralysis.

Even if Rotom doesn't use a status move, Umbreon still has an edge with Yawn to force the switch. Even if Rotom uses Trick and passes a Choice item to Umby, he can still Yawn it, whereas ChansBliss end up being screwed.

So I think it's perhaps the most useful Rotom-W counter. Don't think it's seen much action yet, though, but I imagine it will.

I mean, the same set that would counter Rotom-W could have some use against Reuniclus as well, with Yawning to phase it out and its Calm Minds with it.

Special Attack is all the rage these days, finally being on par with Attack, and Vaporeon simply can't handle Rotom-W or Reuniclus. But maybe good ol' Umbreon can.

Maybe a moveset like this?

Yawn
Heal Bell
Moonlight
Sucker Punch
 
I have always liked Umbreon since it came out and this is my favorite set for him:

Set name: Walleon
Item: Leftovers
Move 1: Curse
Move 2: Moonlight
Move 3: Payback
Move 4: Heal Bell
Ability: Synchronize
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe

This gives Umbreon a 347 SpD and a 300 Def after one Curse it becomes 450 and he usually KOs a few Pokes before fainting
 
I ran a tormentbreon
that set worked fairly well ithe toxic spikes support
unfortunately it was only really good at the end of 4th gen
because scizor wrecks it
 
Umbreon in this gen, although has strong defenses is just not up to par with the amount of powerful sweepers. And for almost all sets umbreon is set up bait. For some reason game freak doesn't give the four-legged dog-like creature roar.....which I fail to understand. Regardless umbreon is usually found trying to set up while scizor switches in and scares him away or even with his massive special defence latios, latias, even reuniculus...comes in calm minds.....and you see the pattern.

That said I tried and umbreon that is purely better for these said situations:

Umbreon @ leftovers
Nature: Calm
EV: HP: 252 /SpD: 216/ Def: 40
Toxic
Wish
Snarl
Charm

Snarl is a Dark base 55, 95 accuracy special attack that always reduces special attack by 1. You can imagine how this set works scizor switches in charm, tries to swords dance...charm neutralzies. It's even more deadly against conkeldur....in fact completely stops him because bulk up wont do anything if charmed and in that process toxic will wear him out so he's either forced to switch or stay in and be KOed by toxic. Special sweepers trying to calm mind....snarl and while that's happening toxic and wish to stay alive. I have found this set to last much longer....and not switch so often. Its best if paired with a heal bell/aromatherapy to prevent being toxic.
 
Well the point is to continue charming and and not allow scizor to set up.....the point wasn't to defeat scizor. Umberon can never beat scizor....that's what the rest of your team is for. Preventing a sweep is much better than not doing anything.
 
Can an Umbreon with Expert Belt, Hidden Power Fire, on a Drought team deal good damage to Scizor?

Umbreon: @ Expert Belt
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
(+Def, - Atk)

Work Up
Wish
Baton Pass
Hidden Power Fire


Why? Baton Pass means Wish and Work-up wont go to waste... Hidden Power Fire means after it lures in Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor, etc. it can hit them with Hidden Power Fire, afterall, if it's used on a Drought team, people assume it's to maximize Moonlight, while you are using a Wish set.

Work up is also more universal than Curse, and can work well when passed on to Mixed Sweepers. Umbreon also doesn't need to feel bad about not having STAB, Drought covers that. On a Drought team, Fire types can take Bug attacks directed at Umbreon, and Umbreon works extremely well with Chandelure because they cover eachother's weaknesses, and Chandelure can either absorb Fire moves targeting Umbreon (Flash Fire), or Trap a foe after a slow Baton Pass from Umbreon, making Chandelure's Shadow Tag very deadly.
 
put leftovers on that set.
and also, the opponent sent out heatran!
u baton pass
heatran used roar.

Nooooooooo!
 

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