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Unpopular opinions

I wish they'd fix the flying types models. Pokemon like Skarmory or Salamence just hovering there look so goofy. It's not like every flying type needs to be constantly flying in-game, look at Hawlucha or Toucannon
I have a theory that the ugly hovering animations were a product of sky battles. Most of the Pokemon that just hover there (like Skarmory, Salamence, Xatu, Tropius, and I forget the others) are Pokemon that are most commonly depicted as standing on the ground. Sky battles, in all their garbage half-baked glory, bans Flying or Levitating Pokemon that are visually grounded like Hawlucha and Gengar, so when Game Freak realized that there weren't enough usable Pokemon, instead of broadening the pool to include visibly airborne Pokemon that aren't Flying or Levitating like Beedrill and Magnezone, or just cutting the battle style completely because it was a bad idea from its initial conception, they just slapped together some gliding animations for a few standing Flying-types and called it a day.

I also hope they update them. Some of them like Swellow actually look pretty nice but most of them are just bad. And I'm someone who usually advocates for the modern 3D animations.
 
I disagree. I think the models look a lot better without the black lines around them. I really liked the videos of the 3DS games without the black lines, seeing those made me wish that the actual games looked like that too. I am very happy that they removed the black lines in Gen 8 as I think that makes the models look a lot better. Don't know if this is unpopular, but that's my opinion.
They might use the black lines to make the models be easier to recognize since the 3DS has a small screen resolution. Masahiro Sakurai mentioned for Smash on the 3DS the reason the characters had outlined was to make them easier to see on the 3DS’s smaller screen, though you could turn it off in that game.
 
I think 3d models are a bit more delicate to balance the animation for because they can't be stuck in a cool pose like sprites, but can't be animated too wildly without looking really weird. And then you have the issue that if you ever wanna add a single animation to a pokemon you have to multiply it x900 for each pokemon and distinct form before adding it to the game
 
They might use the black lines to make the models be easier to recognize since the 3DS has a small screen resolution. Masahiro Sakurai mentioned for Smash on the 3DS the reason the characters had outlined was to make them easier to see on the 3DS’s smaller screen, though you could turn it off in that game.
Good point. However, I feel that the outlines in the 3DS Pokémon games are less important than in Smash. The reason being that Smash is a very fast-paced game where it is very important that you can see the exact placement of all characters on the screen all the time (at least this is how I feel), while Pokémon is considerably more slow-paced. Since Pokémon is turn-based, you pretty much always know where the Pokémon are, whether they are super visible or not has no effect on the gameplay. I think it would be great if you could just turn the lines on or off like in Smash, then each player could choose according to their preference and everyone would be happy. Making features optional is always a good thing IMO, too bad not every feature in Pokémon is optional.

This also reminds me of a similar discussion from a few years ago where it seemed like the general opinion was that the black lines were bad and should be removed because it would make the Pokémon models in the 3DS games look better. Looking back now, it is funny because it seems like the general opinion has changed since then (though it might just be different people posting now compared to then).
 
This also reminds me of a similar discussion from a few years ago where it seemed like the general opinion was that the black lines were bad and should be removed because it would make the Pokémon models in the 3DS games look better. Looking back now, it is funny because it seems like the general opinion has changed since then (though it might just be different people posting now compared to then).

Probably, because I've always thought that Pokémon NEED cel-shading and black outlines to look good in 3D.
 
I very much disagree that being 3D limited poses. We have HAL showing that in Stadium and Colo/XD, in addition to many other video game franchises with monsters that can be well expressed
I however also don't agree that a Pokemon game should be cel shaded. The shader for that is extremely overdone and overlittered with post processing that ruins the cel shaded look at this point
The ultimate issue is Sugimori's color sense after early to mid Gen 3 has been garbage, and Pokemon NEED extra detail for models that'd be impossible to convey in low res sprites, else they'd look plain. Heck, even in some art Sugimori experimented with digital filters for added detail, as opposed to solid flat color like the anime, sprites, and Gen 6 models for texture (Note Kecleon's veins here)
352Kecleon.png

These are beasts or animals, not plastic toys. If you're no longer constrained by 2D animation, add some extra finer detail to both them and the world. I'd love to be captivated and be in that world
I actually liked most Detective Pikachu movie designs for attempting it (even if Jigglypuff and Aipom sucked, though the latter has a story reason why)
For those wary though, this leads to another issue on perception. Adding detail/being more realistic for whatever reason got horribly different in the game industry after mid PS2 era. Realism suddenly was forced to just mean "low to no color, expressionless designs, and hyper repeated settings"
Despite early 3D noticeably....spamming photo realistic textures everywhere, while still having great color range.
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Even the real world isn't as dead and colorless like most 7th Gen games were. Yet due to the heavy representation in media (movies also started that garbage low saturated green tinted filter around that time), anytime something isn't "exclusively flat detailed cartoon characters with wacky expressions", or "bland muh realistic graphics" it's hated or dismissed as uncanny
I mean look at Wall-E. He's gritty as heck, yet is endearing in movement, design, and role
Sadly so many franchises play super safe to where it almost always has to keep the 2 exclusive, Pokemon being no exception
 
The ultimate issue is Sugimori's color sense after early to mid Gen 3 has been garbage, and Pokemon NEED extra detail for models that'd be impossible to convey in low res sprites, else they'd look plain. Heck, even in some art Sugimori experimented with digital filters for added detail, as opposed to solid flat color like the anime, sprites, and Gen 6 models for texture
...
These are beasts or animals, not plastic toys. If you're no longer constrained by 2D animation, add some extra finer detail to both them and the world. I'd love to be captivated and be in that world

Ultimately, I agree
but do take into account that some people are creeped out by cartoons with realistic details
 
Ultimately, I agre
but do take into account that some people are creeped out by cartoons with realistic details
Funny enough, this actually isn’t the first example of this I’ve seen with Mario in particular. Take a look at how real the denim looks in Mario’s outfit in Smash Bros. Brawl.
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Funny enough, this actually isn’t the first example of this I’ve seen with Mario in particular. Take a look at how real the denim looks in Mario’s outfit in Smash Bros. Brawl.
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Honestly since Melee. The difference being Melee is colorful
Ironically despite the hair (which was too playdohy) being canned in renders after 2019, the rest of the clothing has gotten more and more detailed
Meanwhile I can't say the same for Sonic. His hair is still stuck being plastic looking spines, and overall detail remaining the same since 2010 despite major proportion differences
 
I want to address two things.

While I do agree that some of the Megas like Houndoom, Altaria, and Banette could have ( and probably would be better off ) as cross-gens, I want to address two issues:

1. Ace Pokemon getting Megas. Yes, Megas also exist to promote merchandise, which is the reason why Charizard and Mewtwo got two, and Pokemon like Garchomp and Gengar got one. Remember, Pokemon is a merchandise driven franchise, so people who did not play Pokemon for long time will se their favorite Pokemon getting Megas and want to play the game. At least Megas were not soley Gen 1 unlike Alola Forms and Gigantamax.

2. The biggest issue I have is the subjective nature of how a Pokemon's stats correlate to its role. If that was the case, Articuno would be in the same tier as Zapdos, or Typhlosion as Charizard. People say Salamence should not get a Mega Evolution due to being a Psuedo-Legendary, but Goodra is also a Psuedo-Legendary and its in NU. Metagross is also another case of a Pokemon who people argue should not have gotten a Mega, but its in RU as of now. And that’s only looking a Smogon tiers. Dragonite gets significantly less usage than Goodra in VGC, does Dragonite deserve a Mega over Goodra in that case?

And that goes back to another topic I want to discuss: Difficulty. Before I go into this, I want to bring up other observations. I’ve been hanging on Fire Emblem Forums recently, and I have often noticed a huge series of complaints against Fire Emblem: Three Houses, with some people saying it’s the worst series; here are some of the complaints: “ The Monastery is a chore “, “ The Minigames are pointless “, “ Maps are too simple “, and the “ difficulty is too easy “. Don’t those complaints sound familiar? Anyway, I think it’s a shame that people feel that way about the monastery and minigames, because I really do believe that they really fit in the world of Three Houses very well and helps brings out it themes; in other words, Three Houses is a game that rewards you for taking the time to learn about your peers and participating in activities with them. People who just wanna go from battle to battle with little to no break are not going to enjoy the game because that’s not how it was supposed to be played.

But enough about that. I want to talk about the Map Design particular. Fire Emblem has a rough history especially in the west. The first five games were never localized in the west, and when they did start localizing them, they did not sell well. A big factor is how difficult the older games were. Not only did they feature huge maps with multiple objectives as well as being a huge time sink, Fire Emblem was famous for permadeath, or when Charcters die, they are permanently removed from the game. This made the games notoriously difficult, which is probably why when they started localizing the games in the west, they struggled to be super popular: The learning curve being too difficult really made it hard for newcomers to be invested. There wasn’t any option to turn off permadeath until New Mystery of the Emblem, which was the 11th game in the series. Radiant Dawn was widely criticized for being too difficult by western critics, and difficulty settings were mistranslated in English: Hard is Lunatic, Normal is Hard. Ever since Awakening, which saved the franchise form cancellation, the maps become a lot simpler in design with more simple objectives like “Defeat the Boss” instead of “Seize”. The developers noted the complaints and tried to appease both veteran players and casual players with Fates, with the Conquest Campaign being designed to be a challenge with complex map objectives and limited resources, while Birthright features simple maps and allowed grinding making it ideal for beginners. Despite that, they went back to simpler maps and objectives in Three Houses. Why? Simply put, most people or Casual players don’t like, or don’t have the patience to handle super complex maps the older titles. Fire Emblem was almost canceled, and they don’t want that to ever happen again. That’s why the newer games have been designed with a casual approach in mind, they want someone who started with Three Houses to stick until the end of the game- they do not want them to quit just because the game was too difficult.

Newcomers will likely have some difficulties with Three Houses. I know that for a fact because I am a veteran and gave a copy of Three Houses to my brother, and he had some pretty hard times in the game. Even I had found Three Houses difficult at some points, and I am a veteran player.

So what does this have to do with Pokémon? Well, all the logic I’ve used in the paragraphs above applies here. Just because a small minority of people find the game easy, doesn’t mean others will. For someone playing XY as a veteran might find it easy and find Megas overkill, but for a newcomer Megas might just be what makes the game passable after being too difficult. I’ve played XY several times, and in one particular run I actually struggled against Olympia because her Meowstic set up too many Calm Minds and I did not have a dark type. I actually lost, and yes, as a veteran player, I lost in XY. How tragic!

In conclusion, when looking at design choices like difficulty, it’s more important to consider casual or one time players, people who only play game once. Those are the people who vastly outnumber those who do Ironman runs as well as those who play the same games multiple times. While I can echo some people express disappointment that Pokémon games have become streamlined recently, I can understand why they do it from a business perspective and the fact that most hardcore players who do things like nuzlockes are in a minority and do not weigh much in comparison to the casual/newcomers.

Catching up, if any of y'all wonder why I'm liking posts from 2 months ago, that's why lol.

I simply must comment on this though.

The biggest issue with Three Houses might very well be the map design, similarly to how Pokémon's difficulty issue isn't necessarily tied to difficulty.

Basically, a lot of modern FE maps are very, very cool to look at, and Three Houses does have some remarkable battles, like the big battle between the three houses in Part 1.

The thing is, how often do you need to approach things in a different way in that game? I'm hardly one to talk here, I treat all maps like a Rout Enemy map, but the lack of distinct strategy requirements makes the game rather lackluster. Many maps are vast open fields with some forests and thickets and you don't really get defensive maps with Ballistae or anything more interesting geographically-wise. Edelgard's paralogue being the closest to it.

The problem people point out the most in Radiant Dawn was that the Dawn Brigade was essentially a team comprised of a bunch of Magikarp-like units against pretty buff enemies. (No DB slander tho) It was like picking BW1 mons and sticking them in Platinum. In comparison, Three Houses units are extremely flexible and grow into forces of nature. Naturally, that's going to make things more difficult, but some paralogues will still get you if you think the game is free.

What does all of that have to do with Pokémon?

Now that you have so many options to make obscenely strong teams, the difficulty issues are glaring, but that doesn't mean you go full hackrom-mode and crank up that level curve.

A much simpler solution, much like how Three Houses should've tried to spice up the maps a bit for the same reason, would be making some effort to have major battles be unique. How? Strategy.

Take Viola in XY for example. Not quite the hardest boss in the franchise, but she's far more interesting than say, Bugsy having a Metapod and a Kakuna for... reasons. Why is that? Because she at least tried to run a non-RNG-reliant gimmick.

Similarly, SwSh could've used a bit of flavor with their gym leaders. For example, Milo has a Gossifleur, and an Eldegoss. One of the biggest issues with that battle is that it's incredibly easy to pick a bird, like say, Corvisquire, D-Max on turn 1 and fold him like an omelette without him being able to do much about it.

Now, both of these mons have a unique ability that inexplicably isn't used in that battle, Cotton Down.

The biggest criticism with in-game D-Max is how it's so easy to get a sweep going with it, but when you're constantly losing Speed just for attacking, that opens you up for Milo to counterattack. Granted, I don't see Magical Leaf helping a lot here, but Grass mons have a lot of annoying options, including another disruptive option that also doubles as a speed control tool. Stun Spore.

You don't need to make the leaders hard, you need to make them interesting. Most pokémon bosses are really solved with "Pick type advantage. Mash A. Same as routes. Cool music optional." This example is a bit too stall-oriented, so what about we try a more offensive battle?

Look no further than Mustard. He already leads with a Mienfoo with U-Turn, right? Why not play up on it and give his Shinx Volt Switch?

On the post-game version, (Yes, there are two separate trainer entries, why he'd have an Lv. 61 Shinx is anyone's guess, but Klara/Avery can't even claim sandbagging or trolling on that, which is even more embarrassing.) Mustard could upgrade these to a Regenerator Mienshao with U-Turn and an Intimidate Volt Switch Luxray, giving them much better synergy. (This is post-game, so it's fine to take off the kiddie gloves a bit.)

Are these harder battles? Yes, because quite frankly, SwSh was too easy even counting the kid target audience. But they're not overwhelming like say, HGSS Lance, Plat Fantina, GSC Miltank, Colosseum Evice, and that tier of straight-up raw, buff mons trying to fold you with brute-force.


TL;DR - The difficulty issue is not that Pokémon is easy, the problem is that it's boring. Add thematic strategies as gimmicks.
 
Less an unpopular opinion and more a question about a seemingly popular opinion here: I've seen some people hating on HGSS and I have to ask: why?

I know the games have issues in regards to level curves and general game speed, but outside of that they're pretty good in my opinion and are just straight up upgrades over the originals in almost every way.

So I just wanted to know why I've seem some vitriol for these games
 
Less an unpopular opinion and more a question about a seemingly popular opinion here: I've seen some people hating on HGSS and I have to ask: why?
The short version is that they do very little to fix Johto's big issues and actually make certain things worse.

The long version is that, in addition to not fixing the level curve or adding more good Pokémon to use (there's seriously only like 8 Pokémon in Johto that are both good and readily available), failing to make Team Rocket actually interesting/intimidating, and not doing much to make Kanto less of a barren slog, HG/SS also have gen 4's trademark slowness and 8 HMs, and all of this creates a pretty miserable gameplay experience compared to the other games. There are things to like about these games, the soundtrack and art style come to mind, but a lot of people really do not like actually playing them, and it's not too hard to see why.
 
Less an unpopular opinion and more a question about a seemingly popular opinion here: I've seen some people hating on HGSS and I have to ask: why?

I know the games have issues in regards to level curves and general game speed, but outside of that they're pretty good in my opinion and are just straight up upgrades over the originals in almost every way.

So I just wanted to know why I've seem some vitriol for these games

It fails as a remake. A lot of the core issues in Johto are just never fixed, mainly the Johto mon distribution. It gets even worse when you remember how most of the Gym Leaders still lack Johto mons in their teams and don't have them as aces at all for the most part.

Lack of elemental punches as TMs make a lot of mons weaker to the point they feel even more toothless than in GSC. Game speed is an issue too, Gen 4 struggled with that in general. Kanto is still a mindless power trip. The level curve is still an outrageous mess.

There are a lot of things to like in that remake, it's probably the best-looking 2D Pokémon game, but the foundation is just not that good. To make things worse, through no fault of its own, it stripped down some things that made GSC fun, like the elemental punches giving a lot of mons legit options even if they weren't quite good themselves (like say, Ledian.).
 
Less an unpopular opinion and more a question about a seemingly popular opinion here: I've seen some people hating on HGSS and I have to ask: why?

I know the games have issues in regards to level curves and general game speed, but outside of that they're pretty good in my opinion and are just straight up upgrades over the originals in almost every way.

So I just wanted to know why I've seem some vitriol for these games
TME and Ikazuchi explained the technical aspects, but I think at a more meta level the HGSS hype backlash is partially a result of younger fans who got into the franchise via XY and beyond finally getting sick and tired of being told the games they grew up with and loved are inferior hollow shells of The Good Old Days:tm: during the DS and GBA eras for years on end, wanting to lash back out in tandem. The thing is a good chunk of these fans are from the same breed of zoomers who loved the Gen 5 games so those are to some extent off-limits, and the current bout of Sinnoh hype makes challenging the reputation of Platinum daunting as well. This leaves HGSS as the safest target, helped further by it being a more deeply flawed experience. On top of all this with Gen 2 HGSS hate becoming an increasingly popular stance the older fans who never bought into the hype to begin with (e.g. Volt-Ikazuchi, DrumstickGaming and Suspicious Derivative just looking at this forum) are emboldened to speak out themselves. It's similar circumstances to how genwunners became the fandom's ultimate bogeyman, albeit at a smaller scale.
 
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Less an unpopular opinion and more a question about a seemingly popular opinion here: I've seen some people hating on HGSS and I have to ask: why?

I know the games have issues in regards to level curves and general game speed, but outside of that they're pretty good in my opinion and are just straight up upgrades over the originals in almost every way.

So I just wanted to know why I've seem some vitriol for these games

The thing is that there were no upgrades in where the games needed the most. In the technical level, they are absolutely lovely, and the UI is one of the best in the series.

But at the core it's still as flawed as the originals.
 
I can't quite quote you all but thank you all for providing such well-reasoned answers. I think I get an idea of where the backlash against HG/SS has come from and while I think the game itself is damn fun and full of really interesting content, I will agree that it doesn't do a ton ot really fix the flaws Johto has and in some cases, makes them worse (Yes there's more grinding spots post game but grinding in this game is an absolute nightmare, and Lance is such a ridiculous difficulty spike it's insane. And don't even get me started on the game's horrendous HM spam). Contrast this with something like FRLG which is quite literally an objective upgrade over the original in every way and yeah I can definitely see the argument for it being a poor remake (though I will argue HG/SS' QOL changes alone make so many things so much easier and give it an edge over the originals but not to the degree of FRLG vs the OGs but more than ORAS over RSE)

That being said I do have to disagree on a few points.

For starters, HGSS actually fixes Kanto for me by fixing Kanto's level curve, giving you actual legendary encounters, and making the region feel like it's actually Kanto rather than just a bootleg version like in GSC. Will agree though that the level curve after Kanto once again gets absurd since the E4 rematches spike up to the mid 60s and then Lance spikes to the 70s for literally no reason.

In addition, while I get the sentiment of "only a few Pokemon are viable" and I agree that losing the elemental punches cripples quite a few Pokemon, I do have to disagree with the notion that only a few Pokemon are viable. Maybe it stems from my inexperience with the region but I feel like you could get away with using just about anything other than literal garbage mons like Ledian, Ariados, Unown, and Smeargle and comfortably beat most of the game (except Lance because Lance is awful).

All in all, I do definitely see all your points on why you all don't like these games, and while I agree with some of them, I don't think they're enough to really call HG/SS bad games. Flawed games? Yes, but not bad. Certainly not that replayable though, though that's more because these games are LOOOOONG
 
I know that you did not just put all of gen 5 in the same tier as HG/SS.

TBF they did note all the games on those tiers had major flaws. I imagine if they all had their flaws fixed they would probably rise to where Emerald is (though the question now is if Emerald had the Gen IV+ features would it have been on the same level as Plat? AND with that said, since if Gen 5 & HGSS had their problems fixed they'd be equal to Emerald, would that mean they'd also jump up to be equal to Platinum?). Though, I suppose the same could be said for any Pokemon game really "if they would only fix the problems that are obvious to me than it would be a perfect game"!

Though I will disagree with SM being on the same level of USUM. No, like I like some of the things USUM added but the butchering of the story puts SM lower on the list. Don't know whether this means you'd put it on the same level as "BORING" or create a new lower level for USUM, though honestly I would put vanilla SM up with "3D Dark Ages".

Good point. I forgot to slide them to the top of that tier. HGSS is better than the entirety of Gen 5. :psysly:

Don't take your frustrations out on Gen V. :blobtriumph:
 
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Good point. I forgot to slide them to the top of that tier. HGSS is better than the entirety of Gen 5. :psysly:
:fukyu:
TBF they did note all the games on those tiers had major flaws. I imagine if they all had their flaws fixed they would probably rise to where Emerald is (though the question now is if Emerald had the Gen IV+ features would it have been on the same level as Plat? AND with that said, since if Gen 5 & HGSS had their problems fixed they'd be equal to Emerald, would that mean they'd also jump up to be equal to Platinum?). Though, I suppose the same could be said for any Pokemon game really "if they would only fix the problems that are obvious to men than it would be a perfect game"!
The Unova games are certainly not without flaw, they fucked up B/W's post-game real bad and B2/W2 can sometimes be a bit of a slog with how many trainers there are standing between you and the next destination (also, what the fuck is with the massive stretch between gyms 6 and 7?), but I really wanna know why he put them on the same tier as HG/SS, because I think HG/SS are very inferior to anything Unova.
 
Me thinking all mainline trainer games are very flawed especially dev wise after Gen 2: :psysly: (note, I like Emerald best, but Gen 2 is garbage. Dev wise though, all are horrid to the point where I can't excuse inexperience)
Doesn't help that I prefer MD, even if that degraded horribly after WiiWare. Though comp wise, Pokemon's fun, and I like the designs
 
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The Unova games are certainly not without flaw, they fucked up B/W's post-game real bad and B2/W2 can sometimes be a bit of a slog with how many trainers there are standing between you and the next destination (also, what the fuck is with the massive stretch between gyms 6 and 7?), but I really wanna know why he put them on the same tier as HG/SS, because I think HG/SS are very inferior to anything Unova.

BW1's post-game is rather lackluster, yes, but the worst part is how it performs in-game.

The beginning is nothing short of atrocious, but to make things worse, you have several short-sighted decisions like having ridiculous level requirements for certain evolutions because said mons are found late-game.

2 gens later, and it's suddenly very, very awkward to catch a Rufflet/Vullaby when they were made available earlier because they still evolve at like, level 54.

Unova as a region is also very silly because of the obvious linearity to the point it's immersion-breaking.

Fun fact, take a look at Sinnoh's map. Now remember that it's also a very linear game.

I also find it an extremely ugly gen. Sprites were not meant to be stretched and resized and all that nonsense, it looks just abysmal at certain points, and quite frankly, the moving sprites in battle are just an eyesore.

They follow a cycle of "vibing -> vibing -> vibing -> POSE! -> vibing...".

Good sprite animation is seamless. Why in blazes would anyone make such a blatant loop point for all these mons!?

BW2 is forgettable to the point I quite frankly can't really rip into it. I'm not sure if what I remember is from 2 or 1 because eventually you enter the Unova loop and a chunk of the game overlaps horribly with BW1.

PWT also didn't have 6v6 singles vs leaders iirc. Quite disappointing.

Edit: Also, it's really hard to come down from the power level of Platinum where pretty much everyone was tough and you had several strong options to "Starter, Purrloin, Patrat, Monke. And the first gym is a hard counter to your starter. Have fun."
Unfezant ain't no Staraptor either.
 
BW2 is forgettable to the point I quite frankly can't really rip into it. I'm not sure if what I remember is from 2 or 1 because eventually you enter the Unova loop and a chunk of the game overlaps horribly with BW1.

Cuz legit, 2s story is notoriously empty, despite being a sequel to 1. N's already developed so there's no point in that, the sages were technically captured in 1's post game. All you have is Ghetsis acting like a power hungry maniac but with little authority, and the introduction of the annoying legendary fusion gimmick.
2 is loved more for the fact that the game no longer was "BW mons + Psyduck only in wild", and even greater music and gym leader intros
Graphically even though it was GF's "best" for a console, it was still very, VERY behind true 3D DS RPGs, and true 2D DS RPGs
 
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