In addition looking at popular games and determining whether they are good, we can also look at unpopular games and determine whether they are bad. At least in my experience, there are quite a few good games that have sufficiently small playerbases that they haven't had attention from developers in years (e.g. everybody that I know who has played Custom Robo has enjoyed it, but the last entry was only a moderate seller in 2007 why would you ever release another casual RPG with strong multiplayer in the same week as Diamond and Pearl?!). As such, I can't really ascribe a strong correlation, much less a causation, between enjoyability and copies sold.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
The Pokemon cycle I discussed pretty much purely applies to the hardcore Pokemon fandom that mainly manifests on online circles, if it applied IRL, as you said, Pokemon wouldn't be anywhere near as big as it currently is. It also generally applies more to entire generations and all the games in it with the exception of old-gen remakes, so in your example people's changing opinions would relate to all of Gen 2, not just one of GS or Crystal. Hematite's already explained why your feelings on "objectivity" are contradictory and do not have the place in critique you suggest they do, and that's for freaking remakes for old titles. Forget trying to compare completely different regions with their own places, unique attractions and other content. Black and White 2 and Sun and Moon have a similar sized Pokedex for instance, so how does one evaluate which is """objectively""" superior? They also have their own unique minigames and other side features, so how do you compare something like Poke Pelago which has no real parallel in BW2 and vice versa? How do you figure out which has an """objectively""" superior story when they have different characters, conflicts and themes? When it comes to long-running franchises like Pokemon everyone has their own priorities and preferences, and some games hit those personal tally marks much better than others. HGSS and BW2 have all kinds of neat stuff, but if that stuff is not what a particular person is looking for which is present in XY or SWSH or at least doesn't provide as much in those areas for that person, then there's nothing else to it, it simply can't be """objectively""" better or worse.
As for your little public opinion thing... I dunno what to tell ya on that one man. None of what you replied with is the point: The point is that invoking capital punishment in an argument about a children's videogame series can come off as being a bit in poor taste.
Oh that's absolutely a part of it! However, there is also a bit of what I described: Going back to this specific example, people who loved XY from the get-go will feel a lot more confident talking about why and how much they love it as looking back on those games with fondness becomes an increasingly popular sentiment.
Celever just popping in to say that you cant say the 3DS games are objectively worse than the Game Boy/DS games without stating what makes the older games better (and what the newer games lack). I think DrPumpkinz' observation of the games' 3 goals is accurate that internet connectivity has generally strengthened the series, and that's something the old games absolutely lacked. (On the other hand, the actual methods behind said connectivity have been, generally, objectively bad, so...)
Unrelated topic!
An unpopular opinion of mine is that they have made shinies far too accessible with the most recent games. I feel that shiny Pokémon ought to be rare and either show that said Pokémon is either from a serendipitous encounter or the result of diligence to something that actually takes effort.
While I personally don't use chaining methods to get shinies (for myself, anyway), I appreciate them and think they're a good addition... assuming the method resets when breaking the chain.
Gen 4 (well, DPPt) had the Pokéradar for chaining, which I personally like (I think the Pokéradar is one of my favorite items in the series ever but that's beside the point). It also introduced the Masuda method, which is a fine idea but it puts a premium on the importance of foreign Dittos. XY doubled the base shiny encounter rate and added the Shiny Charm (or w/e it's called) that further increases the encounter rate. It also had chain fishing, which i used to get a shiny Clauncher for my brother. Gen 7 had SOS chaining, useful for both Hidden Abilities and shiny hunting, and a concept I like a decent amount. Sword and Shield kinda went haywire with methods of increasing shiny encounters, including a flat rate increase the more of a specific species you see.
IDK, maybe I'm just a grumpy old man who doesn't like kids having easier shinies, but I find that they're a lot more meaningful and worth more when they're actually rare and encounters can't be permanently influenced for them. I caught a shiny Arrokuda early on in my Shield game, but I became slightly less excited when i learned I may have unintentionally done a mild chain for it.
I should note that I'm not opposed to occasional static shiny encounters in games because they're available to everyone.
I know a lot of people do legitimately search for shinies of regular Pokémon, and that's cool (and it makes sense to use the methods available to them for it). I'm fairly certain that virtually every legendary shiny hunter is abusing Game Freak's awful RNG practices, though, and that's probably why they decided to shiny lock cover legendaries starting in Gen 5 (rather than, you know, use an actually good RNG system).
Unrelated topic!
An unpopular opinion of mine is that they have made shinies far too accessible with the most recent games. I feel that shiny Pokémon ought to be rare and either show that said Pokémon is either from a serendipitous encounter or the result of diligence to something that actually takes effort.
While I personally don't use chaining methods to get shinies (for myself, anyway), I appreciate them and think they're a good addition... assuming the method resets when breaking the chain.
Gen 4 (well, DPPt) had the Pokéradar for chaining, which I personally like (I think the Pokéradar is one of my favorite items in the series ever but that's beside the point). It also introduced the Masuda method, which is a fine idea but it puts a premium on the importance of foreign Dittos. XY doubled the base shiny encounter rate and added the Shiny Charm (or w/e it's called) that further increases the encounter rate. It also had chain fishing, which i used to get a shiny Clauncher for my brother. Gen 7 had SOS chaining, useful for both Hidden Abilities and shiny hunting, and a concept I like a decent amount. Sword and Shield kinda went haywire with methods of increasing shiny encounters, including a flat rate increase the more of a specific species you see.
IDK, maybe I'm just a grumpy old man who doesn't like kids having easier shinies, but I find that they're a lot more meaningful and worth more when they're actually rare and encounters can't be permanently influenced for them. I caught a shiny Arrokuda early on in my Shield game, but I became slightly less excited when i learned I may have unintentionally done a mild chain for it.
I should note that I'm not opposed to occasional static shiny encounters in games because they're available to everyone.
I know a lot of people do legitimately search for shinies of regular Pokémon, and that's cool (and it makes sense to use the methods available to them for it). I'm fairly certain that virtually every legendary shiny hunter is abusing Game Freak's awful RNG practices, though, and that's probably why they decided to shiny lock cover legendaries starting in Gen 5 (rather than, you know, use an actually good RNG system).
Yeah. Though I don't think making note of a super effective attack is necessarily bad. Honestly, I think his chattiness could have been played up even more, as it reminds me of those people on Showdown that excitedly comment on their battle, and I like those people.
Here are some things I think it would have been fun for Leon to comment on:
- A super effective hit that isn't STAB. Something about coverage moves being a good way to shore up a Pokemon's weaknesses or land a surprise super effective hit. This comment would only happen once, and it would be different depending on who lands the coverage move first.
- A critical hit, but change the comment for when you crit him, because he makes it sound like you did it on purpose. Just make it a modified version of the comment for when he crits you. Again, only once.
- A miss (might just lump this in with the crit and just have a "don't get discouraged by hax" comment).
- A switch into a resisted hit that would have been super effective had the switch not happened. Not sure if he ever does this, but you're definitely capable of it. Maybe skip this comment if you're in Set mode and immediately switch, and maybe have a few variations of this comment with increasing intensities for if you switch repeatedly just to flex.
- Using a stat boosting move or item.
- Compliment your confidence if you choose not to switch when Leon sends out his next mon (if playing in Set mode, if you don't immediately switch). Skip this comment if you have stat boosts, and only say this once.
- If you get on a streak of knocking out his Pokemon without ever switching or getting KOed, have a few increasingly excited comments for different streak milestones. If you make it all the way to Charizard without switching or getting KOed for the entire battle, maybe tweak the existing comment.
- If your neutral or resisted attack does more than 50% or even OHKOs, or if his neutral or super effective attack does less than 50%. Just general surprised comments at how strong or bulky your Pokemon is. Maybe skip these if the damage was only possible due to stat boosts, or maybe adapt the comments to reference how effective the stat boosts were. Have a few variations so it doesn't become stale, and maybe have it randomly be skipped after the first time.
- Obviously still have the stuff related to Gigazard.
- If you dynamax before he sends out Charizard. Maybe even a special comment if you dynamax turn one.
- If you only have one Pokemon in your party. This would replace the line he says after sending out Aegislash about getting the crowd fired up. Have alternate comments for if your one Pokemon is Eternatus or your starter, and maybe have alternate comments for if you only have two or three Pokemon.
- If both of your Pokemon are knocked out in a single turn.
- If you send out the same Pokemon that he's currently using.
- Any other noteworthy event you can think of. The more specific, the better. Maybe it would get kind of annoying to have Leon chime in constantly, but if his comments are specific and varied enough, the annoyance would be counteracted by knowing that through Leon, Game Freak is directly acknowledging and praising that cool thing you just did.
More of a """philosophical""" point I have to say, but to say there's not objectivity, even in opinions, is laughable. Life wouldn't have evolved, people wouldn't have gotten anywhere, civilization as we know it wouldn't exist if there wasn't objectively correct ways of doing things. Yes, someone like can subjectively like an objectively bad thing, but that does not prevent the objectively bad thing from being objectively bad. I should know...I've more than several objectively bad opinions and likes. To say they're as "valid" or as good as objectively good opinions and likes is sort of laughable (granted, here we're more just talk about video game opinions thankfully. Not shit that'd hurt people :grimace: ).
Literally the exact opposite lol, I hate when people are chatty because they're usually the people who spam xD every time they crit flinch burn you on the same turn.
Another thing is that people can look at the recent games and realize that a feature was done better by a game they previously didn't hold in high regard. I didn't see XY as amazing games when they came out (they were enjoyable, but had flaws), but upon finding another route filled with Pelipper and Gumshoos for the umpteenth time in SM, I realized how much better the encounter tables had been in XY. Button-mashing my way through Melemele Island, I realized XY put you into the action a lot quicker. Or seeing Alola's samey landscapes (tropical coastline, another tropical coastline, tiny town on the tropical coast...) one realizes that Kalos harbours a lot more variety. And then one starts asking oneself "Wait, when was the last time we had a new region with a good ol'fashioned, proper dungeon?" Oh, right, Kalos! Towns with more than three buildings? Oh, Kalos again. Man, remember when we had Megas and could use them in-game? XY and ORAS sure had that thing nailed down! Oh, remember when the games let you rematch trainers in a separate facility that scaled with your levels? Or when you weren't spoon-fed every single bit of information about where to go next, since the game trusted you to find the one path forwards?
As the saying goes, "you don't miss it 'till it's gone". There are certain aspects of the Pokémon games we've come to take for granted over the years, and we don't quite realize how much we appreciate them until a game comes along and takes them away for no reason. The resurgent appreciation for XY is a little like the resurgent appreciation for George W. Bush. Sure, it wasn't great back then, and probably doesn't quite hold up to the standards of perfection in every aspect, but in many ways it did things better than the recent games do. XY wasn't the perfect game, but it had you on the road catching Pokémon within five minutes. Bush wasn't the perfect President, but at least he could speak in full sentences and comprehend information more complex than a kids' storybook.
And so nostalgia grows for games that weren't seen as good at the time, because they still did things better than the most recent games. And sure, if Game Freak continues down the path it's currently going, we may develop nostalgia for SwSh in the same way too. "Hey, remember when there were Trainers on routes between cities? And when you could battle wild Pokémon? Heck, there were hundreds of Pokémon in the games back then, that's better than the dozens we currently have to choose between. Well, choice, remember that? Being able to pick which Pokémon we could use? That was so much better than the set team of Pikachu-Eevee-Charizard-Lucario-Lapras-Snorlax we have now."
Oops, forgot to mention that. This would all be before they were scouted by Scott. The idea is that they're their own facilities just darted around all of Hoenn. Then when you get to the Battle Resort you'll meet its owner, Scott, who'll first openly greet you but after doing some stuff (probably winning batch of times in the Maison) he'll reveal he's not satisfied with just running a resort and wants the island want to be some kind of "new frontier of battling". He invited the Battle Maison from Kalos but wants something Hoenn can call its own so is scouting talent. He already has eyes on a Hoenn native Chatelaine the Maison just hired (Anabel) and plans on taking a trip around Hoenn for other people with a "brain for battle".
And honestly nothing in the post game is necessary either. I was just offering a "middle ground" to those who want the Battle Frontier but GF doesn't want them to be a post game Battle Facility.
I actually thought of how they could make at least non-story Legendary battles a bit more interesting/"fairer" while still providing a challenge:
- They have a "barrier bar" (an additional HP bar) that must first be depleted to lower their actual HP bar.
- When HP bar is below half (in the yellow) the Legendary's Atk, SpA, & Spe are halved. When the HP bar is below a quarter (red) doubles Poke Ball's catch modifier. However these affects are only active when the barrier bar isn't up.
- The barrier bar can be regenerated but will only be half what it was initially. While it'll regenerate after a few turns, the Legendary can restore it earlier by using a healing move (healing move will not increase the normal HP bar).
- When barrier is up the Legendary can't be knocked out (the barrier can only be broken via direct damage) and isn't affected by indirect damage (Recoil, Hail, Sandstorm, Poison, Burn, Leech Seed, Partial Trapping, etc.).
- Can attempt to catch when the barrier is still up, still takes HP amount & status ailment into calculation.
Honestly I think at this point GF is more likely to jump ship, tired of making Pokemon and wanting to make other games. Just will take them to finally decide to sell all their rights to Nintendo. No way Nintendo is going to let them stop making Pokemon games unless they sell Nintendo their share of the Pokemon franchise. That way it's Nintendo who'll then be making the Pokemon games and GF can go
Oh boy, we're really opening this semantic can of worms aren't we?
First of all, you can criticize things objectively. For example, GSC Sandshrew's learnset via level-up.
"In GSC, Sandshrew does not learn a single Ground-type move via level-up. That means its movepool is objectively bad since it does not allow it to use its typing to its advantage offensively without one-of-a-kind TMs."
According to clear criteria and argumentation, that's an objective criticism on Sandshrew's learnset, because regardless of what one feels about it, that flaw is still a flaw.
Reviewing a whole game cannot be done without subjectivity, however, because someone chooses the topics covered in that review, most of the times the reviewer itself, and that means the criteria itself is chosen subjectively. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
A review's purpose is to expose virtues and flaws, express the reviewer's opinion about something, and more importantly, allow the reader to form its own educated opinion about the subject.
On the other hand, a purely subjective review would look like this, again using the GSC Sandshrew example:
"I don't like Sandshrew's learnset."
This is obviously a simplistic and shallow comment on the subject, and will immediately be shattered as a purely subjective comment the moment the obvious reaction occurs: "Why?"
At that point, you can't elaborate on the comment without objectivity. You'll have to give some reason as to why you wouldn't like it, and you'll have to base it on, well, reasons.
So all of us can read each other's posts and innately recognize objective and subjective points about each other's arguments. You may or may not agree with them, but to immediately dismiss the objective points is willful ignorance.
Ash's Pikachu is subjectively disgusted at your post.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Y'know, some still kinda questionable things aside (Bush/Biden comparisons? Seriously?) I think you're on the right track here. A lot the "outrage of the month" crap the Pokefandom pulls feeds off on nostalgia for older titles to fuel it. Think about all the comments you've seen in the past few years about how Gen 5 was so great and innovative and just generally the bestest of all time unlike those poopoo stinky new games, then replace every mention of Black and White with Sun and Moon and Sword and Shield with Piss and Shit or whatever Generation 10+ is called and that is what you can expect from this fanbase in the next 5-10 years because it's so god damn predictable
Perhaps a better analogy would be some of the classic Disney Films, such as Sleeping Beauty and Bambi, films which are considered masterpieces today, but were had mixed reception back then. Bambi was particularly was really negatively recived- Hunters called it the most ‘insulting’ film ever made, Critics criticized the lack of fantasy, and lot of people hated the fact that Bambi’s mother died, with even Walt Disney’s daughter criticizing that moment.
Now, however, the Bambi is considered one of the greatest films ever made. Rewatching it, I love how expressive and flowing the animals are. The way the film’s frames move looks like a moving watercolor painting. All the animals are animated accurately as well, which is very difficult. The deer are a perfect example. Deer walk, run, and jump and kick differently from other animals, so you couldn’t use Horses cause the movement would not be accurate. The fact that they needed time to animate the animals accurately why during the film’s production was halted.
Going back to XY and how some people praise it despite its flaws, it’s a similar syndrome. People did not appreciate how great the PSS system was until SM brought the clunky Festival Plaza which required disconnects when you wanted to make adjustments. And while I am one of the more critical of XY, I will admit that it did have some good things going for it, like how expansive the region is and there is a lot to explore. Actually, I really like Kalos as a region- lot of dungeons, tons of beautiful routes, and some really dark/interesting lore That you would not expect from a Pokémon game. Unfortunately, questionable choices dialogue and writing really hurt down the world building. It’s a shame XY never really got that 2nd chance because we went immediately to SM- That’s probably why XY has Left a sour taste.
Off topic, but I don’t count Gens 1,2,3 because I find them mostly obsolete by their remakes, with the exception of FRLG. I tried playing VC Yellow, but it was too outdated for my taste. I could handle GS, but I find HGSS just better in every way. I count the following generations, 4,5,6,7 and 8, with my favorites being 5,4,7,6, and 8.
p0ip0le
it's a billion lions
QOL stuff i want to return in future games
- perma-run button (HGSS)
- poketch or something similar (PT, specifically bc DP had that stupid ass one-way button... but games moved Back to one screen, so)
- multiple items mapped to the Y key (BW, B2W2)
- selectable difficulties (BW, B2W2) but no easy mode- normal gameplay is easy enough in gen6 and gen8 that an easy mode would be obsolete. challenge mode would be great though. no EXP share and opponents have somewhat competitively viable movesets. and with a function that lets you choose from the beginning instead of beating a game and getting a damn key
- poke rides (SM, USUM) very convenient and it lets you get through the game without wasting moveslots on HMs
- the various different ways to EV train pokemon in (XY, ORAS, SM, USUM)-- the weird ball game and horde battling in gen6, isle evelup and SOS chaining in gen7
- perma-run button (HGSS)
- poketch or something similar (PT, specifically bc DP had that stupid ass one-way button... but games moved Back to one screen, so)
- multiple items mapped to the Y key (BW, B2W2)
- selectable difficulties (BW, B2W2) but no easy mode- normal gameplay is easy enough in gen6 and gen8 that an easy mode would be obsolete. challenge mode would be great though. no EXP share and opponents have somewhat competitively viable movesets. and with a function that lets you choose from the beginning instead of beating a game and getting a damn key
- poke rides (SM, USUM) very convenient and it lets you get through the game without wasting moveslots on HMs
- the various different ways to EV train pokemon in (XY, ORAS, SM, USUM)-- the weird ball game and horde battling in gen6, isle evelup and SOS chaining in gen7
First, what purpose would perma-run have in this analog stick age? Just push a little to walk, and push a lot to run.
Second, while a proper hard mode that you don't have to unlock would be great, it's a hard disagree from me that easy mode shouldn't come back with it. Normal should be a little bit harder than the current game, hard would require a lot of strategy from the start, and easy would be even simpler than the current game (an idea I like is to limit trainer attacks to just STABs, and maybe even simplify level-up movepools). I'm a strong supporter of easy modes in general, and in a game like Pokemon that's designed for everyone, I'd want a literal four-year-old to be able to enjoy Pokemon.
- Running is now the default speed so no need for a button.
- Yeah, GF, how did you give us a mobile phone this gen but all it does is act like a Pokedex? I got why for Rotom Dex, but now Rotom is possessing a device that can make calls, download all sort of apps, and can take video/pictures (and some have an LED flashlight).
- Has there really been a need to map that many key items to Y? Heck, I don't think you needed to at all in the past two gens. Like, okay, when they make the remakes then do this, but for the newer games they sort of phased out the need for a Key Item hot button.
- Wouldn't mind if they just gave us items which did the same job as HMs (though for Fly better to let us call for a Flying Taxi... or bring back Soaring that was cool).
Don't expect a Pokétch equivalent from ever returning, not even in a Diamond and Pearl remake IMO.
It took advantage from the DS having two screens. The Switch not having such a thing would make it quite clunky to use.
Also, I don't know why you'd want the older EV training methods when now you can use Vitamins beyond the first 100 EVs, and the Luxury Ball trick makes them incredibly cheap. Granted, if you wanted to add 4 or 8 points, you'd still need the original method, but it's a minimal change.
Absolutely. There's a reason I keep replaying Emerald and Leaf Green instead of ORAS and something else. Nostalgia factor. And as someone who's first games were the 3rd Gen ones I will always be positively biased towards them, and I look at the art style of Gen 3 (and to a certain degree Gen 4) games and feel the nostalgia coming even if arguably you could say that Gen 6 and 7 have more astounding backgrounds and graphics and stuff.
1. Might be a hot take but, I like these gimmicks to stay in their generation and have a unique one on each one
2. Maaaybe the XY system would be fine but most of the time you're not using that many key items tbh. By Gen 6 you had at most one rod, the bike, item finder and maybe Poke Radar? And by Gen 7 even less than that
*Looks at USUM*
I get what you're saying, we've been seeing games work like this since the N64 days... But Game Freak doesn't!!!
Doesn’t SwSh function with hard press=run though?
What makes you think I had Biden in mind? He's not President right now. It's not his administration that makes the Bush days seem like a period of sanity and dignity.
Also, the point was, there are ways in which the new games are, quite frankly, worse than the ones we used to dislike, hence why those are seen more favourably. I appreciated XY when I first played through them, yet didn't think they were great per se, but the amount of trudge in Gens VII and VIII made me look back longingly at Kalos. XY sure weren't perfect, but at least they didn't have those mistakes in their design to the same degree. So I think the only way I'll be similarly nostalgic for SwSh would be if the next generations are somehow even worse.
Lastly, I don't buy into that so-called cyclical nature of fandom likes and dislikes. When XY came out, it was generally considered that BW2 had vastly more to offer. ORAS was seen as a bit disappointing as it didn't add stuff to the same degree that BW2 did. At the time of SM, fans were still longing for a proper send-off game for Gen VI, the same way BW2 gave Gen V a proper send-off. USUM made us realize this wouldn't happen in Gen VII either. And now that Sword and Shield are the newest games, BW2 is still considered the high water mark. The bar Game Freak never attempted to raise. People sure see XY and SM more favourably compared to the incredibly mediocrity of SwSh, but when discussing the best Pokémon games ever, the hottest candidates still tend to be BW2 and Platinum. Games that were loved upon their release and still have a great reputation a decade later. With the games in Gen VI and VII, fan consensus seems to be "not as bad compared to what we have currently, but still far from the greatest".
Still took them a whole console gen for it lmao.
I feel like you're misremembering X/Y a bit, since if you didn't use Lucario or the Kanto starter you were given, you basically didn't have a mega pokemon until postgame (and even then, the way to get the stones was real dumb).
p0ip0le
it's a billion lions
late disclaimer that i didn't play swsh and idk the gimmicks so most of this comes from a primarily gen4 and 7 POV >_>
kinda agree that they probably wont bring back the poketch in the dppt remakes but.. what'll they replace it with? will they just make it a menu option? leave it out entirely? idk i wanna see it back
kinda agree that they probably wont bring back the poketch in the dppt remakes but.. what'll they replace it with? will they just make it a menu option? leave it out entirely? idk i wanna see it back
I'd say the chances of DPPt remakes in general are too small, actually. The reasons have been stated elsewhere, but I can try to summarize: In addition to the two-screen architecture (with touch controls, no less!), it would take an awful lot of development time to bring Sinnoh up to current-gen graphics standards. The region is easily twice the size of Galar. The games would either have to stick to a fairly outdated, locked top-down camera perspective, or spend yet more time re-imagining several locations that wouldn't look good without it. The game would either have to be DPPt minus the touch controls stuff, or not look like DPPt at all, in both cases one may question the merits of remaking it in the first place. Oh, and knowing Game Freak, they'd have to try to cram in Gigantamax formes in there too somewhere. I think they would find it too much hassle for too little gain. It's been so long since DP that there isn't much of a demographic left to make money off either.
Nah fam, you get Ampharos, I'm using it in my Y run...
*Remembers having to use Thundershock as STAB even after lv. 30.*
Yeah, good point, you don't get a mega.
