Unpopular opinions

Adding on why DP remakes are unlikely to happen in Gen 8, I wanted to bring up the major mechanic: Dynamaxing

Galar gyms are praised for being huge, stadiums with lot of fans. The gyms are designed to be able to hold huge 2 Pokemon, and this is where the first problem lies. Sinnoh gyms are not designed to handle Dynamaxing. They simply are too small handle the huge Pokemon. Look at Hulbury Gym.

500px-Hulbury_Stadium_SwSh.png

600px-Sunyshore_City_Pt.png


In contrast, look at gym at Sunnyshore city. The gym is a midget in comparison to Hulbury. Its not simply physically possible to have a Dynamax battle in that space. And in order to permit Dynamax battles, you'd have redesign the gym from the scratch-specifically, you'd have to enlarge the gym on the par with the Galar gyms, which alone has some complications because you would have to enlarge the top right corner of the map, which means new map design. And when we get to the gym battle with the leader, you'd have to create a room for two Dynamax Pokemon, which alone is a challenge because many Sinnoh gyms are single room ( In contrast, all the leader battles take place in a separate room from the challenges) , which means another new completely design for a whole new room, specifically a giant room to allow the aforementioned Pokemon and dynamic camera angles and backgrounds, both which did not exist in the original DP.
Snowpoint_Gym_Pt.png

Veilstone_Gym_Pt.png


Eterna_Gym_Pt-1.png

And even if GF were willing make the design changes for gyms to permit Dynamaxing, it would not fit well with the culture of Sinnoh. In Galar, the league is treated like a giant sporting event that attracts a huge audience who sits in stadiums watching battles, with the Dynamax being the huge selling point, and matches being on TV. In Sinnoh, the gym challenge is nowhere that grand. Even if they were to make giant stadiums, it would not fit well with the culture of Sinnoh, if anything it would look really odd and look completely foreign, which would defeat the point of remake.

And the other part of Dynamaxing, Max Raid battles would not work well as well as the Wild Area. The raid battles themselves are the primary reason to go to the Wild Area in the first place, and the wild area would be very difficult to implement simply because Sinnoh wasn't designed around an open space, and the region itself is full of dungeons like the Lost Tower, Turnback Cave, and Mt. Coronet taking a considerable amount to fully explore. There's no really need to add a huge area to explore when Sinnoh is already big enough with various dungeons. If they had to add a wild area, the Great Marsh or the Pal Park would probably be the best places due to original purposes no longer existing, but you would still have to design a ton of areas, encounter rates, and how weather interacts to put in on par with Galar's Wild Area, but that a would require a huge amount of effort that GF doesn't have the time considering the strict schedules for releases of Pokemon. The other option would be to scatter Raid Dens over the region in a similar manner to Hidden Grottoes, but Sinnoh itself is notorious for for being a pain to traverse, so this wouldn't help matters either. The final option is not to include Dynamax, but that would be hurting compatibility with Sword and Shield, but since Pokemon Games are about multiplayer, that would hurt the game's compatibility harshly, which probably means no-no.

So yeah, Dynamaxing should not appear in DP remakes because it would not make sense mechanically and lore wise. And lastly, I honest think DP remakes should have happened in the 3DS, specifically Gen 6, because the camera was top down and it would be easier to translate to 3D. They also have a touch screen, which DP was built on. RS would be easier to make on the Switch because they were built around a single screen.
 
So yeah, Dynamaxing should not appear in DP remakes because it would not make sense mechanically and lore wise. And lastly, I honest think DP remakes should have happened in the 3DS, specifically Gen 6, because the camera was top down and it would be easier to translate to 3D. They also have a touch screen, which DP was built on. RS would be easier to make on the Switch because they were built around a single screen.
While i 100% agree with the fact Sinnoh wouldn't in any way be able to handle neither Dynamax nor a """wild area""", I don't think the topdown camera is an issue.

Let's go was a surprisingly good port of the gen 1 maps in pseudo-3d maintaining the topdown camera.
Not saying that they should take that direction, but I think that it wouldn't be impossible to make a proper topdown version of Sinnoh on Switch.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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And even if GF were willing make the design changes for gyms to permit Dynamaxing, it would not fit well with the culture of Sinnoh. In Galar, the league is treated like a giant sporting event that attracts a huge audience who sits in stadiums watching battles, with the Dynamax being the huge selling point, and matches being on TV. In Sinnoh, the gym challenge is nowhere that grand. Even if they were to make giant stadiums, it would not fit well with the culture of Sinnoh, if anything it would look really odd and look completely foreign, which would defeat the point of remake.
This is really the only part of your argument I can agree with. "Sinnoh cities weren't made to fit Gym Stadiums". They'll redesign the city, majorly or enough to fit the stadium (which would also solve the Gym "room" problem.

But it not working with Sinnoh's culture, that I can more believe. The only way I can see them fitting Dynamax into Sinnoh is by completely reworking the atmosphere around Dynamaxing. In Galar it's a professional sports atmosphere, they have giant stadiums filled with crowds where both trainers battle and eventually Dynamax to create a grand spectacular. In Sinnoh, considering the mascots are essentially the Pokemon world's gods of time & space, I can maybe see them changing it into a more mystical atmosphere. Instead of a giant stadium, the Gyms remain as they are. But when you approach the Gym Leader, talk with them, and say you're ready for battle, that's when they'll activate the Power Spot Warp (created by Devon Corp). Suddenly both player and Gym Leader and teleported into this vast but empty pocket dimension fitting of the Gym Leader (thinking having it based on a location associated with the city/town they're in: Roark in Oreburgh Mine, Gardenia in Eterna Forest, Maylene in Sendoff Spring, Crasher Wake in Great Marsh, Fantina in Amity Square, Byron in Iron Island, Candice on Route 217, & Volkner on Route 223). It's now become more of a spiritual battle as it's just you and the Gym Leader as both of you are controlling massively powerful forces. When the battle ends the Power Spot Warp deactivates and brings you back to the Gym where you get awarded your Badge. This same thing would happen too in the Pokemon League though for the Elite Four & Champion the room would just be based on the design of their Platinum rooms (Aaron would seemingly shrink you down, Bertha is in a chasm, Flint in a place made of fire, Lucian I can see in a giant library lit up by orbs of light, and finally Cynthia would be a celestial theme maybe even having her and the player be floating in space instead of standing). And throughout the game I can see Team Galactic using Power Spot Warps to take the player into a battle where they can Dynamax.

As for the Wild Area, well I already explained what they can do. Instead of one big giant (and rather empty) area they can instead expand existing locations into a small Wild Area. But honestly I wouldn't argue if they keep the Wild Area as we know it as a Galar exclusive thing. Instead, maybe focus on the Sinnoh Underground being the massive multiplayer feature. They could maybe even BS that within the walls of the Underground you can find natural Power Spot Warps that'll take you into a Max Raid Battle.
 
Who says Dynamax has to even appear in DP remakes?

Like I get that it's the generational gimmick, but what specific reasons exist that mean it would need to be in DP remakes if any? (If we actually get DP remakes that is...)
Because if they were to make another gen 8 game without their gen gimmick, that'd make no sense even for GF.

So far, every time they've made a second gen entry, the final 2 years of VGC have been played on it, and not having Dynamax in the last year after having had it hyped for the first part is something not even GF is capable of fucking up :P
 
not having Dynamax in the last year after having had it hyped for the first part is a level of response to fan feedback not even Game Freak is capable of getting right
FTFY
I'm joking obviously - I know it would be a terrible decision for optics and business sense and merchandising and all - but I for one wouldn't complain

On a more serious note:
I'm sorta seconding Pikachu315111 that the mapping angle isn't one I understand as a reason not to have Dynamax - actually, I would really like for maps to get more noticeably altered designs than just tile-for-tile remakes anyway, so I kind of figured being able to leave a different amount of space for Gyms would be easy.
I'd be happy for the map flow and layout to stay similar, because Sinnoh actually has some really good map designs already in my opinion - but if one of the points of a remake is to be a graphical overhaul, I think they should be trying to make them look like the current Generation's style.
I don't think FRLG and LGPE did anything like this, but something that HGSS and ORAS both did well is making subtle tweaks to most maps to make them flow better with the new scale of the console rather than being tile-for-tile remakes. Some maps that wouldn't work as well or that just needed an upgrade, including some Gyms, were totally overhauled - but even more minor changes, with the map's flow, direction and layout totally intact, are apparent if you compare them. Look at HGSS's Goldenrod City compared to GSC's, or ORAS's Mossdeep City compared to RSE's - you'll find that the remakes make them neater and tighter, clean up excess empty space and uneven edges. and place little details like flowers in a way that looks nice for the new map, and they redesign most tiles as well. They're perfectly faithful to the layouts of the maps - every path goes in the same direction, every non-decorative, enterable building is in the same place, and the general distribution of terrain and details is pretty consistent for the most part - but you can tell that, on some level, they're kind of new maps made from the ground up with the old ones as a reference, not just the exact same map with updated tiles.

Admittedly, I'm actually not a huge fan of the way ORAS look visually anyway, but not for that reason.
One of the issues I have is just the color palette of some of their tiles, particularly the most basic and common ones like grass, water and cliffs; I think they'd look a lot nicer and more natural if they reduced the saturation and contrast a little and went for something softer? The thing is that these tiles are on almost every map, and they're so vibrant and distracting and sort of clash with each other in a way that make all of the other new tiles (many of which are actually really good - Sootopolis, a rare map that avoids using these basic tiles together, is absolutely gorgeous).
But another thing is just that they go out of their way to try to look blocky, seemingly as an homage to the originals - I really like the updated designs and layouts of their maps, but then things like cliffs go out of their way to look like grid-based tiles like on a GBA, and there are these awkward "steps" in between every layer of them that make the abundant right angles even more pronounced. That's something Game Freak had stopped doing in Generation V, and even the other Gen VI maps avoided it as well - on some level, at least in my eyes, I just think ORAS would have been better off doing more to look like new Gen VI games instead of leaning into being remakes of Gen III ones. The trees are also kind of uncanny when the game zooms in on them in certain cutscenes; they look low-poly and distorted, and their foliage is really basic compared to the plants in Kalos.
HGSS have their own art style and very different tiles from Sinnoh as well, but it's still designed to fit in with Generation IV and takes advantage of how far the series has progressed since Gen II - I would rather see something like that for a Switch remake if I had my way.
I want to emphasize that this is a design choice and not strictly a matter of quality - while I personally don't love that ORAS chose to reference Generation III's tiles and look blockier than usual, it almost certainly didn't take any "less effort" than making more Gen VI-style tiles would have, and it wasn't an "easy way out" or anything! They still did subtly revamp every map and make modernizations and visual improvements all around, and it's not like having tiles in a natural style like Kalos vs ones in an actively GBA-mimicking style like they do would change how much work that was. It's just a choice that I personally think they could've looked better without, and I'm hoping they don't lean into Generation IV-looking... polygonality (apparently that's not a word) and make fully modern-looking revamps to their maps when the remakes do eventually come.

That said, I fully agree that it makes very little sense for Sinnoh's Gyms to mirror Galar's on a cultural level - even as someone who liked Galar's Gym Challenge and the fact that I'm praising something about Sword and Shield should say a lot!, I think it would be pretty out of place in Sinnoh and would undermine a lot of what makes the region unique.
I also don't really like the pocket dimensions idea, though, haha. While "time and space" and "extremes" are a big part of Sinnoh's lore, part of what makes them so important to the plot is that people can't control these things as far as Sinnoh is concerned. Sinnoh is more about a subdued reverence for nature and the universe, dripping with sentimentality and a connection to the past and full of etiological folktales explaining things that the people can't understand any other way. Team Galactic is all space-themed and futuristic and wants to take control of these things, but everyone in the region talks about how weird and out of place they are, and I mean... they're the bad guys. They regularly threaten to bomb places that are culturally important to Sinnoh to make room for their new ideas. I don't think making "casual control of time and space with portals and pocket dimensions" a normal part of Sinnoh's culture is really any more accurate or thematic than making Dynamax and Gym Leaders "the region's big thing," even if it might sound neat on paper; it would be pretty out of line with the region's tone in its own way.
 
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As for what Vanillite has. Well Vanillite is said to have come from life from an icicle exposed to solar radiation (don't know how that works). Though that does put it on par with Grimer and Trubbish.
X-rays from the Moon
Nah, judging by Ultra Moon's entry, there wasn't any of that "random energy grants life" bullshit. The sun said "time to die" and the icicle said "nah fuck that".
 
I can see Dynamax only being unlockable one you get to the Battle Zone, which is an island set apart from Sinnoh so it won't interfere with its lore. Maybe even change the routes to Wild Areas that connect the zones and Stark Mountain. Or heck, with Stark Mountain pretty much designed as one HUGE room, I think this dungeon could transition to a Wild Area better than other places like Mt Coronet.

X-rays from the Moon
This is why Muk gets Moonblast in LGPE.
 
FTFY
I'm joking obviously - I know it would be a terrible decision for optics and business sense and merchandising and all - but I for one wouldn't complain
I know you were memeing there but... *unfortunately* Dynamax is well appreciated by the fans, and remember that the 0.1% of people on smogon (most of which don't even buy the games) don't account for the actual fanbase and will never have any influence in GF's decisions.

Kids would, since they actually make up the actual playerbase who buys the games :P
And kids, as far as I know, love Dynamax.
(Even VGC players are sorta-ok with it. They're more busy raging at Ally Switch right now I believe)


(edit: I demand the "unfortunately" to be read in FalseSwipeGaming voice btw)
 

didls

formerly Besom
Or heck, with Stark Mountain pretty much designed as one HUGE room, I think this dungeon could transition to a Wild Area better than other places like Mt Coronet.
I really like this idea, especially since Stark Mountain is both completely optional and arguably the most inconvenient place to navigate in Sinnoh.
Sinnoh.png


Or rather, leave Stark Mountain unchanged and add a new area. If you look at the map, you can clearly see some unused space next to Stark Mountain, which would be perfect for a wild area since it could have many different environments in it, such as a meadow, snow, beach and mountain, where almost any Pokémon could be found.

Lore-wise, Route 224 is said to be a miniature version of Sinnoh, so if it was expanded it could work as well, especially since it's more easily accessible than Stark Mountain.
Do keep in mind that I have never played SWSH and barely know what the Wild Area even is, so this may sound silly.
 
I know you were memeing there but... *unfortunately* Dynamax is well appreciated by the fans, and remember that the 0.1% of people on smogon (most of which don't even buy the games) don't account for the actual fanbase and will never have any influence in GF's decisions.

Kids would, since they actually make up the actual playerbase who buys the games :P
And kids, as far as I know, love Dynamax.
(Even VGC players are sorta-ok with it. They're more busy raging at Ally Switch right now I believe)


(edit: I demand the "unfortunately" to be read in FalseSwipeGaming voice btw)
They are hosting the Player Cup via WiFi. Doesn’t that count as Worlds in a sense?
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Lore-wise, Route 224 is said to be a miniature version of Sinnoh, so if it was expanded it could work as well, especially since it's more easily accessible than Stark Mountain.
What? How is it a miniature version of Sinnoh? The only miniature version of Sinnoh I know of is in Platinum version's of Amity Square and it is a REALLY miniature version of Sinnoh.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Notice how much the sandy area resembles the route next to Pastoria?
Ah... sorry GF, think you're going to have to try a bit harder.

Or rather, I think I sort of get what they were saying and maybe its just a translation issue. This isn't a miniature version of the Sinnoh Region but rather, rewriting the last part of the sentence: "this area is exemplary of the Sinnoh Region's geography."
 

didls

formerly Besom
Ah... sorry GF, think you're going to have to try a bit harder.

Or rather, I think I sort of get what they were saying and maybe its just a translation issue. This isn't a miniature version of the Sinnoh Region but rather, rewriting the last part of the sentence: "this area is exemplary of the Sinnoh Region's geography."
It's obviously a not tile-for-tile replica of Sinnoh, but it still has all of the geography of Sinnoh (except for snow, which wasn't really in DP anyway, except for Snowpoint) and thus is still a 'miniature version' of Sinnoh.

Route 213 is one of two areas in Sinnoh that contains sand as well. That particular area of route 224 I was talking about is shaped very similarly to route 213, so it's not that much of a stretch to say that it was supposed to resemble it.
 
Ah... sorry GF, think you're going to have to try a bit harder.

Or rather, I think I sort of get what they were saying and maybe its just a translation issue. This isn't a miniature version of the Sinnoh Region but rather, rewriting the last part of the sentence: "this area is exemplary of the Sinnoh Region's geography."
It's not necessarily so much a translation issue as it is... something that isn't meant to be taken quite so literally as either of you are interpreting it in the first place, haha (edit: oh I was ninja'd by three minutes - Besom wasn't taking it that literally in the first place, oops). (But the specific Route 213 thing is definitely a stretch when nothing else on the map is trying to match Sinnoh's layout.) "This area is exemplary of the Sinnoh region's geography" is really already what that means - that it compresses so much of Sinnoh's diversity and climate into one small space that it can allow a wide variety of Sinnoh's Pokémon to thrive. With that in mind, I think it would be a perfect basis for a Wild Area if Sinnoh were to have one.
(Admittedly, I would lean towards the Pal Park myself - it's already meant to be an array of habitats that can support every kind of Pokémon, to the point that all of the first 386 Pokémon are defined as fitting in specific parts of it, and it also certainly wouldn't be serving its Pokémon transfer purpose any more. I think it would just go unused altogether if it weren't adapted into something new, and it seems like a good enough fit for a Wild Area? There's also a wide-open unused space around it that could extend it further into the snowy mountains of the lower Coronet range and the marshes of Route 212, encapsulating even more of Sinnoh's geography and mirroring Galar's a bit better.)
that said I kinda don't like the Wild Area at all and I would be perfectly happy to see Sinnoh remakes ignore it outright
so this is also just kinda the least intrusive application I can come up with for its concept
that or... well, literally replacing Amity Square with it


Admittedly, part of this is just on me - I just have a hard time navigating 3D spaces with anything less than perfect camera control because it makes me motion-sick, and there are plenty of very good games that I can't play because of the same problem, so (for once) the main reason I dislike it so much isn't necessarily an issue with Sword and Shield themselves.
But I mean... as far as I'm concerned, I'm also not really missing that much - there's nothing inherently good enough about the Wild Area to make me wish I could play it more easily. So I kinda don't care at this stage. XP three guesses who's still not getting the DLC

Camera issues aside, I also just don't think its mechanics are all that compelling?
One of my biggest issues with the Wild Area is how self-defeating it is, particularly with respect to "strong Pokémon" that the player can't catch.
The gimmick of the Wild Area is supposedly all about freedom and opening up options for the player, but instead of leaning into the risk/reward angle of going into a section that's too strong for you... a) you can never really know whether it's too strong for you until you get into a battle (the one exception is when it warns you about crossing the bridge, but that's not the only time it happens) and b) there is no "reward" when you do! Even though you can find all of these cool Pokémon, you can't catch them - and the Experience you earn for defeating them is actively scaled down (as though it wasn't easy enough to overlevel...) so there's no actual benefit to fighting them, either - and at that point, the fact that they're there does nothing to the game and completely fails to deliver on the promised and emphasized freedom it's supposedly meant to offer.

But if not reward, then what about risk?
Well... you can pretty easily just go around any wild Pokémon that you can actually see although... not gonna lie: this is the one (1) part of the game in which I actually agree that the draw distance is a tangible problem - not because it's visually unappealing but because Pokémon appear so erratically when you're riding the bike and don't give enough time to react, and that's not a skill-based challenge at all, just an annoyance. At that point, the Pokémon you can't catch just have no reason to be there at all.

The only actual exception to this pervasive issue is raids, which actually do scale down to your level and let you catch them no matter what... but... raids have their own problems, so it's not much consolation.

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if Pokémon in the same areas didn't have the same levels - like, what if you could go to the Lake of Outrage early on, and the Dreepy were in the mid-15s and could actually be added to your team? But then you'd have to be wary of the higher-leveled opponents, including the also-present and incredibly dangerous Drakloak that might attack you while you're searching. There would be risk involved in trying to hunt a Dreepy - but there would also be a reason to go there and try to succeed, and the mechanics don't just stop you from trying!
That one change would go such a long way - you'd have a reason to go there before you're an appropriate level, an actual goal in mind and something worth finding, and then the strong opponents become an actual, meaningful obstacle in the way of that goal. But instead, what we have just removes all incentive to go to the area and therefore makes the strong opponents irrelevant.
So all there really is now is... evolution items. And, I mean, those being available so incredibly early is just yet another balancing issue more than it is a good design choice.
("The game would be too easy if we let you catch Dreepy at this level!"
"What about Arcanine?"
"... no, yeah, you can go ahead and get that fully-evolved Arcanine before the first Gym!
Have all of Growlithe's moves for free while you're at it!")


Ultimately, the Wild Area is just a big, open space with wild Pokémon, items and raids, and also no meaningful obstacles or interesting overworld mechanics.
And it doesn't even make the game "open world" like its supporters seem to think? It changes nothing about the player's progression through the campaign - it's just a particularly big area that you can reach early on. In fact, the lack of any Trainers as obstacles also works against it - if you would eventually have some permanent obstacles to clear, but you could do them early on, you'd at least accomplish something by clearing it out earlier than strictly necessary. But all of the wild Pokémon you fight will respawn immediately and facing them doesn't mean anything for when you actually have to pass through - so none of your progress even sticks around.
It just has no reason to exist - I don't get why so many people talk about it like it's the best thing in Sword and Shield and redeems all of their flaws redeems any of their flaws isn't just another flaw in itself.

and that's why it doesn't need to become a regular part of the series!
and also why I'm really hoping any future entries with free camera control make it optional
 
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if Pokémon in the same areas didn't have the same levels - like, what if you could go to the Lake of Outrage early on, and the Dreepy were in the mid-15s and could actually be added to your team? But then you'd have to be wary of the higher-leveled opponents, including the also-present and incredibly dangerous Drakloak that might attack you while you're searching. There would be risk involved in trying to hunt a Dreepy - but there would also be a reason to go there and try to succeed, and the mechanics don't just stop you from trying!
That one change would go such a long way - you'd have a reason to go there before you're an appropriate level, an actual goal in mind and something worth finding, and then the strong opponents become an actual, meaningful obstacle in the way of that goal. But instead, what we have just removes all incentive to go to the area and therefore makes the strong opponents irrelevant.
That would also solve the somewhat immersion-breaking issue of how Pokemon strength is scaled such that someone who lives in the player's starting town and ONLY the player's starting town has a smooth difficulty curve. Areas would feel more natural and not tailored to the player.
 

Codraroll

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On the topic of DP remakes, I think I've said it before, but it bears repeating: I think Sinnoh is too big for Game Freak to recreate.

How long did it take them to make Galar? Say, three years? And what is the result? Half as many towns as Sinnoh, half as many routes, and only two dungeons - and all of them are much smaller in scope than the ones in Sinnoh. Recreating Sinnoh would be like creating Galar over again with each location having twice as much content, and then doing it once more. That's the minimum required to give a basic, but faithful, recreation of Sinnoh, fitting in every route and every town without massively scaling them down. Even if they were scaled down to Galar's level (all towns reduced to a handful of buildings, all routes being straight corridors), it's still twice as much work as Galar was. Add in the adaptations required to fit Gen 8's mechanics (Raids, Dynamax, Wild Area) into it all, and we're ending up with a task much larger than what Game Freak has shown to be willing to do. I think they'd rather go straight to Gen IX with a new region of a more comfortable size to work with.

... or we'd get Let's Go Shinx and Starly: tile-for-tile Sinnoh remakes with a fixed camera and a few features stripped away to shorten development time.
 

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