Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread

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I can wrap my head around the Talonflame removal, honestly. And if I'm to be blatantly honest, I don't even know why it's ranked to begin with (if someone would like to DM that to me or something I'd welcome it; I've been a bit ignorant about some of the garbage down in those ranks) given how much stuff like Heatran and Tyranitar have been picking up in popularity even after Naganadel's ban, especially considering those things were starting to become quite popular shortly after the Dugtrio/Arena Trap ban.

Talonflame's ability is a shadow of its former self since the bird can't just outpace basically everything on the planet. It appreciates Stealth Rock even less. Tyranitar's sheer existence can basically remove its ability from play. Its speed tier isn't quite as incredible as it used to be now that a couple of faster - and more universally powerful threats - exist. And it's more or less forced to use up a Z-move slot that would be better suited on plenty of other things in this tier. Its ability makes it that much more prone to getting revenge killed by weakened faster threats since it doesn't have the priority if it loses any health. Even a top-tier threat like Ash Greninja can already outprioritize it and massacre it with Water Shuriken. Lando is still everywhere and the bird's recoil makes it a sitting duck (or whatever it is; is it a hawk or something?) for Scarf variants too.

Is this thing's niche even worth taking into account considering how stressful it is to build around it and keep its single notable niche intact?

Thus, Talonflame from C- --> As far away from any kind of ranking as humanly possible: Agree.
 
RyukTheDarkrai said:
Hi, I’m kinda new to forums, though I’m really confused on why Mega Charizard Y was given the drop to C+.
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It's not a BAD mon, but it's kinda outclassed as a Mega and as a wallbreaker. Base 100 speed isn't amazing with 0 ways to boost (and if you run Modest for more firepower, you're outspeed by max speed Lead Lando-T which sucks), and with Tyranitar (and to a lesser extent Rain teams) running everywhere, you feel awful since Fire Blast loses a ton of power (and it can miss), and Solar Beam becomes not-a-move. Yea, you can run Focus Blast/EQ, but the former has garbage accuracy and the latter isn't that strong versus Tyranitar (although it nails Heatran).

Stealth Rock also destroys Zard Y, and while you can run Roost you are even more limited in what you can hit.

On the defensive side, Mantine walls every Mega Charizard Y variant (HP Electric is not a set), and Toxapex does so too.

If you want a strong specially-offensive Fire Type, go with Volcarona. It can actually boost with Quiver Dance, also has reliable recovery (defensive Volc is a legit set), and has more immediate power in the form of Z-moves (albeit one-time use).
 
TURBODERP said:
It's not a BAD mon, but it's kinda outclassed as a Mega and as a wallbreaker. Base 100 speed isn't amazing with 0 ways to boost (and if you run Modest for more firepower, you're outspeed by max speed Lead Lando-T which sucks), and with Tyranitar (and to a lesser extent Rain teams) running everywhere, you feel awful since Fire Blast loses a ton of power (and it can miss), and Solar Beam becomes not-a-move. Yea, you can run Focus Blast/EQ, but the former has garbage accuracy and the latter isn't that strong versus Tyranitar (although it nails Heatran).

Stealth Rock also destroys Zard Y, and while you can run Roost you are even more limited in what you can hit.

On the defensive side, Mantine walls every Mega Charizard Y variant (HP Electric is not a set), and Toxapex does so too.

If you want a strong specially-offensive Fire Type, go with Volcarona. It can actually boost with Quiver Dance, also has reliable recovery (defensive Volc is a legit set), and has more immediate power in the form of Z-moves (albeit one-time use).
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I wouldn't really compare Volcarona with Charizard-Y because one is a sweeper and the other is a wallbreaker, I personally think that Charizard-Y is still really good in its role and C+ is definitely low but Charizard-Y and Volcarona aren't really interchangeable as mons
 
I mean considering Zard-Y is a breaker but fails to break standard balance because of the existence of Pex, fails to break stall because of the existence of Chansey + something else being present like Scarf T-tar to potentially pressure it, and fails to do much to offense because of its subpar Speed and being pressured so heavily by SR thus limiting its switch-ins, AND the fact that it takes up your mega and only fits on very specific builds, I honestly don't see how Zard-Y is really good at its role. There are so many better breakers in the tier that literally require barely any support and can still pressure balance. Zard-Y does nothing but let Pex in for free. Zard-Y hasn't been good since Duggy left, and I honestly don't see any reason to keep it ranked higher than C+ other than the fact that it can "sometimes" be annoying if you are up against some shit balance team that lacks the best balance defensive Pokemon in the tier.

I think C+ is honestly still pushing it lol. It's a shit breaker and is only decent in very specific match ups, much like a lot of other shit in the C ranks.
 
I personally think Porygon-Z should be bumped up from C- to somewhere around the C+. Maybe even B if you really agree with me. I’ve been toying with it a bit lately, and I’ve actually managed to sweep Early or even Late game because of it without Sticky Web or Aurora Veil. I found out it’s best if you set up on something passive like Ferro or Mega Sab, And with a coupe Nasty Plot boosts, it can really wreak havoc.
 
RyukTheDarkrai said:
I personally think Porygon-Z should be bumped up from C- to somewhere around the C+. Maybe even B if you really agree with me. I’ve been toying with it a bit lately, and I’ve actually managed to sweep Early or even Late game because of it without Sticky Web or Aurora Veil. I found out it’s best if you set up on something passive like Ferro or Mega Sab, And with a coupe Nasty Plot boosts, it can really wreak havoc.
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The issue with Pory Z is that it’s very hard to set up with even with viel. It’s pretty frail even after a boost and can’t find many setup oppurtinities. Even if you manage to set up, its very easy to deal with considering many teams have a check to it such as Tyranitar or Chansey or even Haze Toxapex wipes the z conversion clean. You say it can set up on Mega Sableye and Ferrothorn, but Ferrothorn just Leech Seeds and weakens it gradually while Mega Sableye switches out to Chansey as Mega Sableye is mostly run on stall. And last of all, Z Crystals are oh-so important in this meta game and Z Conversion is the only way you’d want to run Porygon z in OU. I don’t see why you’d waste your z crystal on something like Porygon Z.
Therefore Porygon Z can stay where it is.

sorry about quick typing as I am on mobile
 
Ghost Cream said:
The issue with Pory Z is that it’s very hard to set up with even with viel. It’s pretty frail even after a boost and can’t find many setup oppurtinities. Even if you manage to set up, its very easy to deal with considering many teams have a check to it such as Tyranitar or Chansey or even Haze Toxapex wipes the z conversion clean. You say it can set up on Mega Sableye and Ferrothorn, but Ferrothorn just Leech Seeds and weakens it gradually while Mega Sableye switches out to Chansey as Mega Sableye is mostly run on stall. And last of all, Z Crystals are oh-so important in this meta game and Z Conversion is the only way you’d want to run Porygon z in OU. I don’t see why you’d waste your z crystal on something like Porygon Z.
Therefore Porygon Z can stay where it is.

sorry about quick typing as I am on mobile
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I too am on mobile btw. I don’t even use veil on my team and it works perfectly fine. Of course, you need some help getting past Chansey, but doesn’t almost every Special Attacker (That doesn’t have Psyshock or named Keldeo)? Mega Sableye is also passive, and you can Nasty Plot when Ferro Protects. I don’t see the issue with Tyranitar, since obviously that’s not something you wanna set up on, as it isn’t as passive. Pory-Z now runs the BoltBeam combo, so a Toxa May be able to get rid of the boosts, but it won’t like a Thunderbolt. Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 376-444 (124 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
RyukTheDarkrai said:
I too am on mobile btw. I don’t even use veil on my team and it works perfectly fine. Of course, you need some help getting past Chansey, but doesn’t almost every Special Attacker (That doesn’t have Psyshock or named Keldeo)? Mega Sableye is also passive, and you can Nasty Plot when Ferro Protects. I don’t see the issue with Tyranitar, since obviously that’s not something you wanna set up on, as it isn’t as passive. Pory-Z now runs the BoltBeam combo, so a Toxa May be able to get rid of the boosts, but it won’t like a Thunderbolt. Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 376-444 (124 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Hey I'm also on mobile, what's up guys?

Because I'm on mobile though I can't seem to get the damage calc to work so I can't figure out how you got that damage output re: pz vs thapex. Is that LO porygon-z after a nasty plot boost or a z-conversion electric tbolt or what?
 
RyukTheDarkrai said:
I personally think Porygon-Z should be bumped up from C- to somewhere around the C+. Maybe even B if you really agree with me. I’ve been toying with it a bit lately, and I’ve actually managed to sweep Early or even Late game because of it without Sticky Web or Aurora Veil. I found out it’s best if you set up on something passive like Ferro or Mega Sab, And with a coupe Nasty Plot boosts, it can really wreak havoc.
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a couple days ago everyone was talking about upping the ranks of mega-lopunny and mega medicham since TTar is on the rise. Most people start with mega-lopunny and mega-medicham anyway with fake-outs anyway canceling your nasty plot. Then you have other mons with taunt, and stall doesn't care to much about Porygon-Z as long as they have chansey. Then you have other mons that can rise their attack and speed like dragon dance and quiver dance. So I dont know Porygon-Z seems pretty mediocre. It might just be me, but I dont agree with a rise
 
The C ranks could do with a major cleanup in my opinion, I'm gonna go ahead and toss a few noms out now. Que the people crawling out of the woodwork to defend their favorite super niche shitmon.

We'll start with my favorite super niche shitmon, actually.

Azelf C- -> UR

In case you couldn't tell by my avatar I love Azelf, but this thing has no place in OU in the current metagame. It's always been a sort of poor man's Deoxys-Speed, boasting a fast Taunt and rocks as well as a decently strong Explosion with a myriad of other niche options as well, but such a Pokemon really has no place in the current metagame where the HO variants it calls home simply are not used anymore. Even the HO teams that might have otherwised used Azelf usually prefer the arguably superior Excadrill for its ability to reliably set up on Sableye instead of having to win 50/50s with Skill Swap. Nothing has really changed for this mon recently but I honestly don't know why it's been ranked for so long in the first place when it's so obviously outclassed.

Scolipede C- -> UR

What does this thing do again? I think I supported this nom before and it was rejected because of the Waterium-Z Swords Dance set which poses a minor threat to some offense variants I guess, but falls flat vs balance due to the omnipresence of things like Steela, Zygarde, Ferrothorn, etc who can easily eat a hit and cripple or kill it in return, and even most offense teams are more heavily pressured by other mons such as Kartana and Ash Ninja, it seems really hard to justify not only a team slot but also a Z-Move slot on a mon that just doesn't perform well in most matchups.

Porygon-Z C- -> UR

Yeah, I know some guy just nominated it for a rise (Porygon-Z in B? Whatever you're smoking, pass me some my dude) but the blunt reality of the situation is that this thing is ass. It seems amazing on paper and it's a terror on the low ladder, but once you get to a decent rating you're going to find it becoming deadweight increasingly more often. It struggles to find any opportunity to set up, it struggles to actually facilitate a sweep when it does set up, and it only gets to set up once per game. I know usage stats alone aren't an argument and blah blah blah but there's a reason why this thing sees literally zero usage in tour/higher ladder play. I've been saying it for ages now but it's an overrated piece of garbage that needs to be unranked.

I'm not going to nom them for drops yet, but can someone explain to me what niche Mega Altaria, Alolan Muk, Thundurus-T, and standard Alakazam have in the current metagame? Because I can think of no reason why I'd use any of them over other mons.
 
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I feel if Porygon-Z were ever to rise it would be because of the NP Z-Hyper beam set. Z-Conversion kinda fails as a sweeper because (as many others before me have outlined in greater detail) it's a little too slow, a little too weak and not quite bulky enough, basically. (if it could setup z-conversions multiple times it would be SUPER heat, but alas no)
Sure it can sweep late game once u remove it's checks but at that point u may as well use z-victini or something.

Z-hyperbeam is actually cool because it can maybe get a kill or two Vs offense if u predict well, and just laughs maniacally at bulky teams. I'm on phone rn so I can't use calcs but I'm pretty sure +2 z-hyper does like 80% to bandtar or something and easily ohkos Chansey at +4
Plus it has that surprise factor of people thinking its the trash Z-Conversion so u can capitalize on that. Surprise factors are rarely good enough reasons for a raise, but it's something to consider

EDIT: I've done some calcing and I was wrong. +2 z-hyper beam ohkos bandtar AND Chansey after rocks. Also ohkos ferro after rocks and does 80% min to spd steela. Cool mon
 
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wisdom dog said:
252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Toxapex: 114-136 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
???
how much special attack did u give this thing holy fuck
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He used +1 modest adaptability electric Porygon-Z for that calc. Not entirely sure why he didn't just copy paste it:

+1 252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 376-444 (123.6 - 146%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Unrank this hunk of garbage

NP Z Hyper Beam Porygon-Z is a fucking awful set that's not capable of doing anything notable because it's too slow to threaten offense properly and is way too frail, and there's a million other better mons you can use to beat fat teams instead of it. For example, you can just use Nasty Plot Hoopa-Unbound and actually have something to touch Mega Sableye and a way to properly break through Steel-types without having to resort to a Z-move that's a dead slot after you've used the fucking one-time use move (I cannot stress this enough). Z Conversion should only be Electric-type because Toxapex is broken, but even then it's a pretty lackluster set due to a myriad of factors, such as being slower than common scarfers like Landorus-T.
 
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I can't say I think we need to unrank pretty all of C- as some are suggesting. The mons are niche, matchup reliant, not particularly outstanding etc, but that's why they are C- and not in the higher ranks. They all still have niches, albeit small ones, and have enough viability to retain their extremely irrelevant rank imo. It's like the low ranks are really cluttered like they were during most of last gen, there are 5 mons there that, aside from maybe porygon-z, could be useful in very specific teams. Scoli and azelf are still reasonable suicide leads, with scoli being able to pull off some lure sets, as that relic z aqua tail set proved and talonflame apparently has done stuff in tournaments, so obviously has some serious merit to usage (going off a post in this thread). As for porygon I've seen nothing but theorymon on it since it stopped being threatening after like 1 week of having it around, and if no one uses it to get any proof of it working, that's because it probably doesnt so should be unranked.
 
BlueLobster said:
I can't say I think we need to unrank pretty all of C- as some are suggesting. The mons are niche, matchup reliant, not particularly outstanding etc, but that's why they are C- and not in the higher ranks.
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This pretty much. Honestly I think both P-Z and Talonflame deserve to keep their C- ranking as not a lot has changed for them. If anything Talonflame got a bit better with all the new Defog users & P-Z's home has always been on webs which got a few new tools as well. I would also prefer it if people would discuss more relevant mons instead of wasting their time arguing about C- rankings :(
 
I gotta go to bed soon, so sorry in advance if this seems rushed.

Zard Y should honestly drop to C, maybe even C-. As Gary stated, Zard Y is a bulky team breaker that can't beat stall because of Chansey and can't beat balance because of Pex. In fact, we recently got a new Fire type that can set up and threaten fat teams much, much better than Zard can, being Sub CM Blacephalon, which is particularly notable for being one of the only special attackers in the tier currently that can actually set up and beat Chansey 1v1 assuming EQ Chansey doesn't become a thing to lure it, and its STABs are so powerful that it can just ram through Quagsire and Clefable. Blacephalon's existance has honestly sealed Zard Y's fate more than anything introduced in USUM, as it does the job of a strong special attacking balance/stall breaker so much better and consistently, as it's just stronger, faster, and can actually hurt Toxapex with + 1 Never-Ending Nightmare.

So ye, Charizard-Mega-Y: C+ ---> C or below
 
BlueLobster said:
I can't say I think we need to unrank pretty all of C- as some are suggesting. The mons are niche, matchup reliant, not particularly outstanding etc, but that's why they are C- and not in the higher ranks. They all still have niches, albeit small ones, and have enough viability to retain their extremely irrelevant rank imo. It's like the low ranks are really cluttered like they were during most of last gen, there are 5 mons there that, aside from maybe porygon-z, could be useful in very specific teams. Scoli and azelf are still reasonable suicide leads, with scoli being able to pull off some lure sets, as that relic z aqua tail set proved and talonflame apparently has done stuff in tournaments, so obviously has some serious merit to usage (going off a post in this thread). As for porygon I've seen nothing but theorymon on it since it stopped being threatening after like 1 week of having it around, and if no one uses it to get any proof of it working, that's because it probably doesnt so should be unranked.
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Wasnt there some guy who posted the normalium z nasty plot set in the underrated sets with many replays of it working around high ladder'ish? There is replays u just havent seen them

So this isnt a one-liner
I disagree with zard y dropping, i think it not fair comparing it to blace as blace has no where immediate power of zard y without a specs or a +1. Zard Y also has way more bulk than blace and can actually touch ttar

Also comparing it to mons in higher ranks is unfair, theres a reason theyre higher rank and zard y is low

I think C is as low zard y can get, no way its near as bad as mons like nidoking/altaria/alakazam in C,
It still has extremely powerful stabs and threatens any team without chansey or toxapex (mantine isnt nearly as common anymore and tyranitar doesnt run av anymore so it gets shrekt by focus blast)

There havent been a huge shift so that zard drops even further, i think its fine in C+ for now
 
LordHelix said:
Wasnt there some guy who posted the normalium z nasty plot set in the underrated sets with many replays of it working around high ladder'ish? There is replays u just havent seen them

So this isnt a one-liner
I disagree with zard y dropping, i think it not fair comparing it to blace as blace has no where immediate power of zard y without a specs or a +1. Zard Y also has way more bulk than blace and can actually touch ttar

Also comparing it to mons in higher ranks is unfair, theres a reason theyre higher rank and zard y is low

I think C is as low zard y can get, no way its near as bad as mons like nidoking/altaria/alakazam in C,
It still has extremely powerful stabs and threatens any team without chansey or toxapex (mantine isnt nearly as common anymore and tyranitar doesnt run av anymore so it gets shrekt by focus blast)

There havent been a huge shift so that zard drops even further, i think its fine in C+ for now
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Yeah, that person is me lol. Here is the detailed post about the NP PZ set, with replays and all. I don't recommend using this pokemon as a whole however as there are faster, bulkier, and more independent breakers that do not require as much opportunity cost or support, and this set was developed in the OLT era when neutral natures were everywhere, meaning PZ will outspeed even less. The set was primarily made to stallbreak, but stall took a huge hit since duggy's ban. It is that much more effective in stallbreaking because of duggy's removal, but the omnipresence of HO and fast offense in general just pushes this set to unviability. (I forgot to mention in the post that you can do recover > hyper beam, as +2 Z-Tri Attack still hits like a missile and this lets you stallbreak more effectively by living longer)

I disagree with a drop for Zard Y from C+ to C. A specially offensive fire type breaker that does not fear most ttars is a great niche from blacephalon and heatran, as well as having passable special bulk (unlike blace) and the ability to pressure rain (unlike heatran). Want to echo Lord Helix mentioning that mantine has lost usage too. I get that Zard Y cannot break toxapex/chansey teams on its own which really sucks for it (trapper or knock support with it), but it can reliably do work in key matchups that lack these pokemon. Things in the C and C- tiers are mediocre even in their optimal matchups, which Zard Y is not.
 
Since the PZ conversation is appearing again, I will repost what I said a few weeks ago

In short, Conversion-Z is bad, Nasty Plot Z-Beam is borderline unviable and every change in the meta that has happened lately has worked against it

Zukrad said:
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C- -> Unranked
This mon has been pretty irrelevant for quite a while now, and I'm honestly surprised that it has stayed in the VR for so long. I don't remember it winning any games (nor used at all) in any important tournament in the last 6 months. I might be wrong on that last one tho.

The Z-Conversion set isn't good. Every Choice Scarf user ever can beat it. While the defense boost are nice and 135 +1 is strong, it can only set up once in the game, and if you switch out after setting up, you have a deadweigth mon in your team, making it very restrictive to when to set up. Sure, its Special Attack is about as good as Volcarona, but Volc can set up multiple times without having to waste a Z-move, meaning that I can run a much wider selection of items, including offensive Z-moves.
I know there is a Nasty Plot Z-Hyper Beam set, but I have never seen that set put work in an actual match, and I don't see it being that good in a meta where Stall is not quite common

With Tyranitar and Tran being so common, AV Mag regaining popularity, and with so many threats not letting it set up in the first place, Porygon-Z struggles even more in the OU tier. Even when compared to the rest of C-, Porygon looks like the worst of the bunch.
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I refuse to speak on Porygon-Z, so I'll talk about something else that was brought up that I really disagree with.

Scolipede should not be unranked.

Yes, it has one viable set, yes it requires a decent amount of support to be efficient, but the point is that it does break through offense pretty handily when things go its way, and that is why it's C-. Its ability to both clean and wallbreak in one set is the reason it should remain at least ranked. It's far from common and it has a decently difficult time finding a position on a team, I'm not naive, but that is in no way a reason for it to be removed from the VR entirely.

It does its job, and pretty well, it just requires a bit more support than most other 'mons.

AKA, a Prime candidate for C-.
 
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A- ----> A rank
Mega Pinsir honestly is capable of threatening every playstyle from HO to balance (it can't really do much vs stall which has seen better days of course.) One of the thing in my opinion that makes Pinsir A rank worthy is because a lot of metagame trends have been in Pinsirs favor. Zapdos dropping in usage, Celesteela dropping a little bit, Mega Diancie being quite bad right now also benefits Pinsir a lot since Mega Diancie can check Pinsir, and scarf Lele obviously is not as used as it was in the beginning of SM. Magnezone support is amazing right now and we have a couple of good defoggers that USUM gave us to make Pinsir support slightly better. Pinsir also sets up on a lot of the relevant mons in the metagame such as defensive lando T, Ferrothorn, and Assault Vest Tapu Bulu. Pinsir having the raw power and Swords Dance to Power late game against Offensive teams and having the breaking power to also be able to break past most of the defensive pivots in the current metagame as you can see from the calcs below. Pinsir may not be splashable in any way because of the poor defensive typing, but it can sure compete for a mega slot as a powerful but quite fast mega evolution with the raw power while also being decently bulky. Defoggers are as splashable as ever. However, with some amazing assets for Pinsir there are a couple of downfalls. With a new defogger in Rotom-Wash rising back up in popularity (it's still quite average obviously) it is one of the very few Pinsir answers that can come in once or twice depending on Mega Pinsir last move. If you lack Close Combat and you don't have Magnezone as a partner then Celesteela will always wall you. Plus two close combat still does not OHKO Assault Vest Magearna and Tapu Koko is an ever so popular check for Mega Pinsir as always. Once Lopunny moves up to A rank, I could see Pinsir being the best Pokemon in A- . Overall Pinsir may not be a top tier threat, but it sure as hell can be annoying to prepare for and is pretty hard to revenge kill mainly because it has a way of beating most of the relevant scarfers and faster Pokemon with a plus two Quick Attack or capable of living a hit and KOing with Return.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 361-426 (94.5 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 306-360 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Ferrothorn can't do anything back in this metagame if it lacks Gyro Ball and most Ferrothorn are sp def currently anyways

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 346-408 (98.2 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 402-474 (117.2 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 399-469 (101.2 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 354-416 (97.5 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Pinsir-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 344-406 (113.1 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 313-370 (102.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
that's actually a shocker that this OHKOs sp def pex
 
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How about providing replays on top of it for a nomination?also its Pinsir not "pPnsir" in the second line. Also yes it's true that Pinsir somewhat sets up on Bulu, but I saw a few run stone edge on ladder. Anyway the problem I see with Pinsir is that, a somewhat good opponent always has enough Checks for it, just won't let it set up in other words you have to effectively sack a mon to get it in. Furthermore Koko one of the best and most common mons check it quite easily actually, which I find a huge drawback of M-Pinsir. I think it's just fine where it is right now
 
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