Pokémon Vivillon

[thevictor390]

The only thing that really counters Vivillon is anything that is faster than it on turn 1. Which sadly is lots of things. I only use it nowadays if I'm positive I can outspeed the opponent's lead.

This is exactly why I run focus sash. If you get outsped on turn one, you can get the sleep powder off and get at least one more chance to do something. If the opponent doesn't have any priority, you can quiver dance and hit back in the guaranteed sleep turn, and after a quiver dance, you have a very good chance to 2HKO a lot of things. If you predict a switch you can at least get off a hurricane.

A perfect example is mega Charizard Y. With any item other than a focus sash you get outsped and OHKOd. (ok, there is choice scarf...) With focus sash, charizard is asleep, you get a free quiver dance AND attack, and a very good chance to KO with a second hit (has happened on battle spot many times, but I suspect there is less priority and switching in that metagame).

Sucker punch priority is useless too since you

 

[Rennyjesus]

I truly think that the only set for Vivi is just the Typical Hurricane/Quiver Dance/Sleep Powder/Bug Buzz or Substitute with Full investment in Speed and SpAttack and slapping a Focus Sash... Taking that in consideration i think that Modest is better to have that increase in power since between 415 and 456 speed there aren't a lot of pokémon with the exception of some boosting pokès or some scarfers that can be handled with some team support... Of course if you really think that this an issue you can use that Timid Nature...

 

[dark_dragons]

Well, believe me, I've been through with Vivillon since the game started, I know that Wide Lens is the best Item for him.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73034946

Vivillon can't do much after Steath Rock if he has Life Orb; and even with Life Orb, if Hurricane misses, he's done. Just remember that Hurricane has 30% effect, and it's AWESOME! Sometimes, battling with Steel, Rock, Electric type Pokémon, power is NOTHING. After one Quiver Dance, he can outspeed most of common OU, and easy to set up more once the Substitute is put on and a Sleep Powder is ready.
And Focus Sash is bad, too. Steath Rock is over there most of the time and same as Prior move user, namely Talonflame, Scizor, Lucario or even Terrakion with Quick Attack. Vivillon can't do much without Dance once, so after one dance and he's finished with Bullet Punch. Moreover, Hurricane can miss! 91% means it has 9% to miss, and that's Vivillon dead point.

Another battle for the awesomeness of Vivillon :)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-71791975

Even in Sun, Hurricane has the Accuary of Thunder - 71.5%.

 

[Ilan]

Then why not left overs.. 91% accuracy is reasonable.. most people use stone edge and focus blast.. which have worse accuracy so.. why not use left overs for more subtitutes or sharp peak for more damage on hurricane.
sometimes it's better to take a risk for a move to be better overall.

 

[alphatron]

The player in that second replay was a friggin genius. Oh shit, a bug/flying type special attacker? This looks like a good time to BULK UP. And then he acted like a sore loser when he lost. He deserved to lose earlier in the match if anything.

The replays did a good job at showing that leftovers is a great item for vivillon. One more turn of sandstorm damage and that would have been you. Compound eyes raises the accuracy of your moves high enough, I'd say. And 70% accuracy hurricane in sunlight isn't very impressive. Barely better than focus blast. In the same way that your opponent lost the match by missing his 80% accurate stone edge, you were at worse risk to lose than he was when you dared to use hurricane against charizard-Y.

I'll agree that focus sash isn't a good item for vivillon though. It isn't a good item for anything that intends to sweep.

 

[SnoopysWorld]

Considering raising one of these guys up for competitive purposes. How's the move Powder for it? It can help against fire types after a Quiver Dance to ensure you out speed.

So far, the move set I like the most is

Vivillon@ Focus Sash
Timid Nature
Compound Eyes
252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP

• Quiver Dance
• Sleep Powder
• Hurricane
• Bug Buzz / Powder

 

[dark_dragons]

Ilan and alphatron: Yeah, I've used Leftover too. It really works well.
Substitute and Sleep Powder help Vivillon take time to recover, and most of the time, Recovering is good. It can allow Vivillon create one more Substitute or two, which is good enough.

But I still prefer Hurricane for no-need-to-worry moves. 90% or 91%, namely Leech Seed, Hi Jump Kick, Rock Blast and to me (especially when using Whimsicott, Unburden Hawlucha or Smashed Cloyster), they miss a lot. Well, not all the time, not usually, but sometimes, that 10% of missing chance can exchange you the chance of winning the whole match.

But if you believe that you're not that unlucky (like me), Leftover is good!

Considering raising one of these guys up for competitive purposes. How's the move Powder for it? It can help against fire types after a Quiver Dance to ensure you out speed.

So far, the move set I like the most is

Vivillon@ Focus Sash
Timid Nature
Compound Eyes
252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP

• Quiver Dance
• Sleep Powder
• Hurricane
• Bug Buzz / Powder

Sorry, but you know nothing about Vivillon.
Powder has the increased Priority, and fairly useless (except you're battling the Fire type Elite Four).

 

[SnoopysWorld]

Ilan and alphatron: Yeah, I've used Leftover too. It really works well.
Substitute and Sleep Powder help Vivillon take time to recover, and most of the time, Recovering is good. It can allow Vivillon create one more Substitute or two, which is good enough.

But I still prefer Hurricane for no-need-to-worry moves. 90% or 91%, namely Leech Seed, Hi Jump Kick, Rock Blast and to me (especially when using Whimsicott, Unburden Hawlucha or Smashed Cloyster), they miss a lot. Well, not all the time, not usually, but sometimes, that 10% of missing chance can exchange you the chance of winning the whole match.

But if you believe that you're not that unlucky (like me), Leftover is good!



Sorry, but you know nothing about Vivillon.
Powder has the increased Priority, and fairly useless (except you're battling the Fire type Elite Four).

Oops, wasn't aware that Powder was a priority move. So Bug Buzz, Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, and Hurricane is the better set then right?

 

[TheTraininator]

Oops, wasn't aware that Powder was a priority move. So Bug Buzz, Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, and Hurricane is the only set then right?

FTFY

...and yes, it is the best set.

 

[eesang]

I don't really see a reason to run Bug Buzz.

It hits Grass, Psychic, & Dark and is resisted by a ton of stuff, sharing Grass SE and Steel resist with Hurricane.

I prefer Energy Ball/HP Fire&Ice for coverage or Aromatherapy/U-Turn for utility. I don't think Vivillon hits hard enough, even after Quiver Dance, to reliably sweep and has a lot of checks; put something to sleep then punch holes or bail for late game clean-up.

Bug Buzz hits Tyranitar, Espeon, Alakazam, Slowbro, Starmie, Mega Gyarados, Lati@s, Hydreigon in OU.
Energy Ball hits Tyranitar, Slowbro, Starmie, Mega Gyarados; Hurricane hits the rest for neutral. It loses STAB but gains coverage for Rock Types that resist Hurricane and the ever-present Rotom-W.

 

[dark_dragons]

Well, tbh, Hurricane for Vivillon is enough, and Substitute is a better choice to replace the second attack move.

When Vivillon encounter Tyranitar, even with Bug Buzz, running most of the time is the better choice, if Sleep Clause is activated. Tyranitar has the Sandstorm to boost SpD anyway.
Same as Starmie, Espeon, Alakazam or even some Hydreigon, after one dance, Vivillon can easily finish those guy.

Energy Ball is mostly used to hit Rotom-W, but not really THAT effective anyway since it's always so bulky.

Some people use HP Ground to counter Magnezone or Heatran, but it's not worthy to lose a move slot just for those two.

 

[Aoda]

Yo

I truly think that the only set for Vivi is just the Typical Hurricane/Quiver Dance/Sleep Powder/Bug Buzz or Substitute with Full investment in Speed and SpAttack and slapping a Focus Sash... Taking that in consideration i think that Modest is better to have that increase in power since between 415 and 456 speed there aren't a lot of pokémon with the exception of some boosting pokès or some scarfers that can be handled with some team support... Of course if you really think that this an issue you can use that Timid Nature...

You want to prevent Noivern from entering and landing an airslash on you. That's one of the reasons I find draining kiss interesting.

Well, believe me, I've been through with Vivillon since the game started, I know that Wide Lens is the best Item for him.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73034946

Vivillon can't do much after Steath Rock if he has Life Orb; and even with Life Orb, if Hurricane misses, he's done. Just remember that Hurricane has 30% effect, and it's AWESOME! Sometimes, battling with Steel, Rock, Electric type Pokémon, power is NOTHING. After one Quiver Dance, he can outspeed most of common OU, and easy to set up more once the Substitute is put on and a Sleep Powder is ready.
And Focus Sash is bad, too. Steath Rock is over there most of the time and same as Prior move user, namely Talonflame, Scizor, Lucario or even Terrakion with Quick Attack. Vivillon can't do much without Dance once, so after one dance and he's finished with Bullet Punch. Moreover, Hurricane can miss! 91% means it has 9% to miss, and that's Vivillon dead point.

Another battle for the awesomeness of Vivillon :)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-71791975

Even in Sun, Hurricane has the Accuary of Thunder - 71.5%.

One of the many advantages of Vivillion, is that it has compound eyes and the moves to exploit it.

 

[tango1075]

Does Vivillon still take damage from fire moves after using Powder? I haven't evolved my Scatterbug that far yet as I am still toying with natures and such... I guess I could play with it in showdown but I am still at work and such so.. yeah

 

[Aoda]

Does Vivillon still take damage from fire moves after using Powder? I haven't evolved my Scatterbug that far yet as I am still toying with natures and such... I guess I could play with it in showdown but I am still at work and such so.. yeah

Not sure, but it should still get hit by the fire move, while the user of the move will get hurt as well (like a sort of recoil)

 

[AOPSUser]

Does Vivillon still take damage from fire moves after using Powder? I haven't evolved my Scatterbug that far yet as I am still toying with natures and such... I guess I could play with it in showdown but I am still at work and such so.. yeah

Not sure, but it should still get hit by the fire move, while the user of the move will get hurt as well (like a sort of recoil)

I'm pretty sure it stops the Fire move entirely. Someone from Research confirmed this a while ago I think.

 

[Rennyjesus]

Yo

You want to prevent Noivern from entering and landing an airslash on you. That's one of the reasons I find draining kiss interesting.

Wut? Gooby Plz...

I just can't get how 100BP of a non STABed Super Effective Draining Kiss is more than the 165BP of a STABed Neutral Hurricane...

Also if you want to battle Noivern with a Vivillon you should be a little bit crazy, unless you have one or two dances and wants to Sleep him...

Can someone help me with the calculations for a Modest Vivi Versus a standard Noivern? :3 i'm using my phone on this one...
u

 

[Antonius the Great]

This thing is pretty powerful seeing the calcs...

252+ SpA Life Orb Vivillon Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 239-282 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Vivillon Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 359-422 (115.4 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Vivillon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 146-174 (46.9 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Vivillon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 218-257 (70 - 82.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Vivillon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 291-343 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Vivillon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 291-343 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This thing does a pretty amount of damage to Noivern either way. Just after one boost Hurricane will OHKO it (assuming it isn't outsped), but Draining Kiss will get it too after two boosts and Stealth Rock damage. (Draining Kiss doesn't show up on the calculator, I just changed the BP of Dazzling Gleam)

EDIT: Here are some calcs without Life Orb:

+1 252+ SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 276-325 (88.7 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 367-433 (118 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Vivillon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 224-264 (72 - 84.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Vivillon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 168-198 (54 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Rennyjesus]

Thanks Antonius... If you see, you doesn't need Draining Kiss AT ALL... Specially when you consider that pretty OHKO after stealth rock with Life Orb Modest Hurricane which means that the dragon can't reliably enter into the game since three of Vivillon's moves (Sleep Powder, Hurricane and Quiver Dance) are just doom for Noivern...
I'm seriously considering Life Orb right now instead of Focus Sash! X3

 

[Antonius the Great]

Hahaa.. I actually think I'd be running Leftovers because of the Stealth Rock weakness, Life Orb would limit her time a lot, especially if she takes any damage while setting up.

Anyways I'm considering a set with Powder and Quiver Dance then 2 Attacking Moves. Powder does stop Fire-type moves completely and actually makes the target take 25% HP damage, so it's excellent for Vivillion - Predict a Fire-type move, Ie HP Fire from Megazam, and Powder it! Next turn switch out to a Poke that resists it or has Flash Fire. You can really mess things up with this move, and if you have SR and 3 Layers of Spikes up, which I try to get up, This move actually has potential to take down Volcarona entirely with even HP, which many players don't pay attention to. It can also spam it as much as it wants, meaning if something is Choice locked into a Fire-type move and they keep trying to use it, they'll be done in 4 turns minimum if they don't switch out. I think it's a pretty dangerous move...

 

[imaloony80]

The set is fun, and I've used it before in the past (Nothing says comedy like watching dragons get destroyed by a butterfly), but it really is a paper-thin set (Referring to the Focus Sash/Sleep Powder/Quiver Dance/Hurricane/Bug Buzz set) and it probably won't be seeing a lot of use in the upper tiers. Still, I could see it hitting RU thanks to Compound Eyes Hurricane.

 

[Antonius the Great]

Ooh a butterfly hitting RU instead of NU would be awesome. I don't really play RU, but it's still awesome to see a butterfly rise through the ranks...

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

I think this replay is a testament to vivillions power
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73817416
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73812579

In the first one it is very common for people to predict sleep powder and switch in espeon...even if that is all vivillion does I think it did a good job, given how lack luster most of its stats are.

I know this isnt excatly the place for replays but I have been finding vivillion to be VERY viable in OU. I have been using a four man team with vivillion as my lead or late game sweeper and have been winning like 50% of them.

THIS
Here is a clean 6 poke sweep right off the bat.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73934939

I think we need to start talking about perfecting this little guy for OU

 

[Rennyjesus]

The set is fun, and I've used it before in the past (Nothing says comedy like watching dragons get destroyed by a butterfly), but it really is a paper-thin set (Referring to the Focus Sash/Sleep Powder/Quiver Dance/Hurricane/Bug Buzz set) and it probably won't be seeing a lot of use in the upper tiers. Still, I could see it hitting RU thanks to Compound Eyes Hurricane.

Yes it does have some HUGE problems with those defenses but actually i usually send it as a lead or as an lategame sweeper and its pretty effective since it only need one chance to get a Quiver Dance which isn't hard considering that nice 97.5% accurate Sleep Powder...

 

[PrincessDerpy]

But I still prefer Hurricane for no-need-to-worry moves. 90% or 91%, namely Leech Seed, Hi Jump Kick, Rock Blast and to me (especially when using Whimsicott, Unburden Hawlucha or Smashed Cloyster), they miss a lot. Well, not all the time, not usually, but sometimes, that 10% of missing chance can exchange you the chance of winning the whole match.

But if you believe that you're not that unlucky (like me), Leftover is good!

The 10% can go for you or against you, but giving up an item slot to mitigate the against you only very slightly doesn't seem worth it. Battles can be won or lost on the 10% chance to freeze from punch/beam, but you don't see people running lum everything just in case that happens.

 

[Aoda]

Thanks Antonius... If you see, you doesn't need Draining Kiss AT ALL... Specially when you consider that pretty OHKO after stealth rock with Life Orb Modest Hurricane which means that the dragon can't reliably enter into the game since three of Vivillon's moves (Sleep Powder, Hurricane and Quiver Dance) are just doom for Noivern...
I'm seriously considering Life Orb right now instead of Focus Sash! X3

I don't know if Noivern can outspeed it after two boosts, but a scarfed one would be pretty scary on the switch in. I like Draining kiss because of it's neutral hits, plus the offsetting the heal has on LO and FS