• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Why Weezing should be your physical tank in Platinum

It means it's "underused", not that it sucks!
Click to expand...

i agree with everything else you just said 100% but i would like to point out, "BL" also means underused and that uus generally a.) suck in ou standard play and b.) arent as good as their ou / bl counterparts. this doesnt mean all uus suck (i find swellow and weezing to be good pokemon to use in ou) but i would say most of them do unfortunately, at least when compared to other pokemon or with how "not" powerful they are.

but i dont think many people think that weezing sucks because he is in uu, he just provides a great check / counter to many pokemon in uu, isnt strong enough to break the metagame, and balances the game out.

i dont want this to turn into a uu/bl discussion thread though so ill leave it at that.
 
Originally Posted by seds

I think one of weezing's greatest assets is it's ability to take on scizor. Scizor is the new lucario. It wouldn't be such a big deal if superpower wasn't avaliable to it... but now scizor gets everything it could possibly want.
Click to expand...

Uhhh... Scizor's counters don't give a fuck about Superpower. See... Zapdos, Rotom, Gyarados
 
I sometimes use Weezing on my UU teams but not as often as he doesn't seem that useful to me, maybe it's just my battling skills(lol), anyway about the whole SR argument, if it ever was an argument, isn't that the whole reason why there are other support pokemon on your team that can lay down Stealth Rocks? I'm just saying but, all of the points brought up by Skiddle makes me just want to use Weezing now more than I do now.
 
Weezing is good, but I wouldn't call him the single best choice of a physical wall by a longshot. He's much better than a lot of you give him credit for, setting up on Weezing is pretty damned futile as WoW negates a swords dance and most of the things that are going to be attempting a setup in OU aren't going to like being hit by a fire blast or thunder bolt.

Rotom forms greatly diminish the situations in which Weezing is an ideal team member, however he has a few advantages over them:

1. Weezing is not weak to Dark or Ghost, being weak to the much, MUCH less common psychic instead.
2. Weezing can explode/haze, ruining potential sweeps.
3. Weezing has pain split, which is a step above restalk as far as reliable recovery goes.
4. Fire Blast/Flamethrower > Overheat on a defensive pokemon.
5. Weezing has slightly better physical defenses.

Of course, Rotom has his own numerous advantages, but don't be so quick to discredit Weezing. He can handle any physical threat not named DD outragemence or carrying a STAB psychic move. Of course he has weaknesses, every pokemon does. Weezing can easily be a valuable member of an OU team.
 
Ok lets skip talk about Weezing's performance in UU and stick to its capabilities in OU. After all, it was compared to other OU's on the first post, so yeah stick to talking about OU.

Also, don't talk about Weezing's drops from OU/BL to UU, as it's still OU in other forums, you know? Besides, it's not like Weezing dropping into lower tier makes its stats decrease as well. Sure it will suck in usage in Standard now that it has dropped, but again not in stats itself.
 
Kietharr said:
Weezing is good, but I wouldn't call him the single best choice of a physical wall by a longshot. He's much better than a lot of you give him credit for, setting up on Weezing is pretty damned futile as WoW negates a swords dance and most of the things that are going to be attempting a setup in OU aren't going to like being hit by a fire blast or thunder bolt.

Rotom forms greatly diminish the situations in which Weezing is an ideal team member, however he has a few advantages over them:

1. Weezing is not weak to Dark or Ghost, being weak to the much, MUCH less common psychic instead.
2. Weezing can explode/haze, ruining potential sweeps.
3. Weezing has pain split, which is a step above restalk as far as reliable recovery goes.
4. Fire Blast/Flamethrower > Overheat on a defensive pokemon.
5. Weezing has slightly better physical defenses.

Of course, Rotom has his own numerous advantages, but don't be so quick to discredit Weezing. He can handle any physical threat not named DD outragemence or carrying a STAB psychic move. Of course he has weaknesses, every pokemon does. Weezing can easily be a valuable member of an OU team.
Click to expand...

There's this move called substitute that I hear is really useful, and lots of pokes try to look for opportunities to set it up.
 
What about Slowbro?

95 HP, 110 Defense, 80 Special Defense... It can take hits better than Weezing (both Physical and Special), has better Special Attack (along with Flamethrower, Thunderwave, Yawn, Trick Room, Slack Off, and resists Gyarados' STAB).

It also resists Fighting attacks, Fire Attacks (Heatran), Water, Ice, Psychic (Weezing's weakness), Steel...

I acknowledge that its weak to 5 types: Grass, Bug, Dark, Ghost, and Electric, but to be honest Grass isn't used much, nor is Bug (besides Heracross and Scizor who both fear Psychic/Flamethrower).
 
Slowbro has the sturdiness of 23 emperor penguins but the speed of 4 dead foxes. However this should not be taken into account when considering its place in a team.

Weezing on the other hand is more purple than a wildberry lodged in a muffin with an ability to levitate. However its option to will-o-wisp means that it is more than just a floating wildberry.

I hope this helps.
 
Well weezing is my top choice in an OU wall as it pretty much does a better job than other walls.

This guy is right, gliscor has now fallen bellow weezing because of luke's ice punch gain.

Weezing counters a lot of OU physicals and don't say it can't do anything but counter them, WoW is a very handy move to use when you know something ill switch and weezing eliminates gyarados the majority of the time (as long as waterfall dosen't do something haxy). We all know that after a gyara dd's, it's not gonna switch out from a weezing the majority of the time. Gliscor can't reliably counter Lucario,Gyarados,Weavile,metagross,swampert.........But it can sr.....greaaaaat. That makes it better <_< (sarcasm)

You are given 6 pokemon slots, so you physical wall doesn't have to be a sr user. Thats not the purpose of having a physical wall, the purpose is to counter physical threats, and No OU wall counters as much as weezing does.

The talk of heatran was pure ass, Heatran = special attacker weezing = physical wall end of story.

Now rotom may be like the perfect type to deal with the new version of lucario..... soooooooooo?
What about the old version with crunch? Because of that rotom would be hard pressed to switch into a luke. Also, rotom isn't a physical wall so how can there be talk of it replacing weez? It can switch into the wide variety of physical attacks that weezing can.
 
too_talls said:
We all know that after a gyara dd's, it's not gonna switch out from a weezing the majority of the time. Gliscor can't reliably counter Lucario,Gyarados,Weavile,metagross,swampert.........But it can sr.....greaaaaat. That makes it better <_< (sarcasm)
Click to expand...

Swampert hits Weezing with Surf. Metagross has too much Att power for Weezing and gets a heavy Meteor Mash on Weezing before WoW or Pain Split (Gliscor counters Gross better thanks to better Speed and STAB on Earthquake off a higher Att than Weezing's SpcAtt (which lacks STAB on Flamethrower)). Weezing requires SpcAtt EVs to OHKO Gyarados with Thunderbolt.

And Rotom-a can take on those mentioned pokemon except Lucario with Crunch (and, exactly like Weezing, is screwed over by Waterfall flinch. Rotom may take more damage from Waterfall, but it doesn't need to invest in SpcAtt for a OHKO with Thunderbolt (and Discharge)).
 
As posted in the OP:

Hidden Power Ground vs 4/0 Heatran: 54-63% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Gyarados: 75-88% (OHKO with SR)
Flamethrower vs 4/0 Lucario: 59-70% (2HKO)
Flamethrower vs -1 Def Lucario: 89-105% (OHKO with LO)
Flamethrower vs 252/0 Scizor: 87-102% (OHKO with SR)
Flamethrower vs 4/0 Scizor: 106-125% (OHKO)

All the following are with Adamant natures, 252 Attack, and Life Orbs.

+2 Lucario Close Combat vs Weezing: 48-57%
+2 Scizor Bullet Punch vs Weezing: 54-64%
+1 Gyarados Waterfall vs Weezing: 52-62%
Click to expand...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Gyarados. It counters everything listed on there... and its got offensive potential. Despite the Stealth Rock weakness, it gets the job done for me.

Beats Heatran, Scizor, Lucario, and seriously slows down other Gyarados.
 
too_talls said:
Well weezing is my top choice in an OU wall as it pretty much does a better job than other walls.

This guy is right, gliscor has now fallen bellow weezing because of luke's ice punch gain.

Weezing counters a lot of OU physicals and don't say it can't do anything but counter them, WoW is a very handy move to use when you know something ill switch and weezing eliminates gyarados the majority of the time (as long as waterfall dosen't do something haxy). We all know that after a gyara dd's, it's not gonna switch out from a weezing the majority of the time. Gliscor can't reliably counter Lucario,Gyarados,Weavile,metagross,swampert.........But it can sr.....greaaaaat. That makes it better <_< (sarcasm)

You are given 6 pokemon slots, so you physical wall doesn't have to be a sr user. Thats not the purpose of having a physical wall, the purpose is to counter physical threats, and No OU wall counters as much as weezing does.

The talk of heatran was pure ass, Heatran = special attacker weezing = physical wall end of story.

Now rotom may be like the perfect type to deal with the new version of lucario..... soooooooooo?
What about the old version with crunch? Because of that rotom would be hard pressed to switch into a luke. Also, rotom isn't a physical wall so how can there be talk of it replacing weez? It can switch into the wide variety of physical attacks that weezing can.
Click to expand...

The point was that heatran can switch into weezing all day. I don't know about you, but I don't like letting heatran switch in for free. If it is coming in, I want it to take a reasonable hit as it does so, or at least be faced with a reasonable threat (ie, I'd rather have heatran switch into an infernape's fire attack than weezing's, because at least infernape can pose enough of a threat to make your prediction easier). In short, these days if I'm using a fire attack, I really want it to be coming from something that's packing a threat of fighting/ground attack as well.
 
Yeah yeah, Just like heatran's increase of use. There is a significant increase in lucario use. And in gliscor's case, this pokemon hurts it's ability to wall another pokemon it was meant to wall. I think gliscor suffers more in that toss up.

darknessmalice: you make some good points but there are flaws and oversights invloved.

Weezing can switch into swampert on an obvious eq, Then it is strong enough special def wise to take a surf and WoW the pert, eliminating it's physical effectiveness.

As for metagross, the only kind of meta that can hit hard enough to 2 hko a weezing, is one with a CB. If you notice you cannot take another MM and the meta takes no life orb damage, you can safely assume CB use and switch to something that can take steel. As for Gliscor, it should much more fair the dreaded ice punch.

The special attack ev's thing is bull. I have long been using a weezing, It has a lot of iv's in special attack But No ev's and I have yet to meet a gyrados I couldn't Ohko with t bolt.

As for the Shoddy vs wifi spectrum:
I think wifi should either have a separate list or shoddy do what it should and relate it's battle situations in the same way that wifi allows.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about it's the new stats of skymin and the rotoms that are absent from wifi. So on wifi rotom isn't worth a mention as a gyara or lu counter because it doesn't have all the def.

Because the true Battle situation is wifi and to ignore that and only think of the knock off shoddy is just...........wrong.
 
ChouToshio said:
There's this move called substitute that I hear is really useful, and lots of pokes try to look for opportunities to set it up.
Click to expand...

So substitute makes weezing useless, not a bad argument in the least. Of course, said subber must switch in on weezing, and most of them risk getting WoW'd. And of course this argument doesn't apply to virtually every other wall without a phase move out there.
 
Who said it makes weezing useless? You were arguing that pokemon can't set up on weezing. I was providing a counter example. Any of these physical sweepers can, and sometimes do run sub.

Weezing is especially vulnerable to substitute because it:
-is extremely slow
-relies on w-o-w to "predict the switch"
-relies on painsplit for recovery (painsplit is blocked by substitute if you don't know)

Gliscor's speed makes it a lot less vulnerable. Skarmory can spike and whirlwind regarless. Any wall that doesn't rely on painsplit for recovery is better off since they can heal themselves regardless (and heal moves are often used to "predict the switch"). Even if you get it wrong and the enemy subs instead of switches, at least you're not giving up a turn. Even Rotom doesn't face this problem as much because its 86 speed puts it above many of the slower sweepers and walls (and it often carries scarf), and it doesn't rely on pain-split.

btw if ttar can correctly switch in on thunderbolt/flamethrower, it can sub up (17% of ttar's have sub) and never have it broken in 1 hit because of weezing's pathetic special attack. Not to mention that when weezing sees ttar it's like "oh, now I wow!" and ttar's like "lol, now I win the game!"
 
No one ever thought of weezing has a tboah counter,

Any smart player would switch weez out on the dight of a t tar for a proper counter.

This is not to say the gliscor is t tar safe.
Some t boh's carry ice beam wich is gliscor death.

But admitingly so, gliscor can sometimes countering tboah whilst weezing can pretty much never do it. But thats still leaves weezing ahead counter more ou threats safely than gliscor.

But once again gliss will find it self burned in the form of a freeze once in a while whilst trying to counter tboah.
 
too_talls said:
Yeah yeah, Just like heatran's increase of use. There is a significant increase in lucario use. And in gliscor's case, this pokemon hurts it's ability to wall another pokemon it was meant to wall. I think gliscor suffers more in that toss up.

This is right. And, moreover, a free turn for Lucario is much more dangerous that one free turn for Heatran. But...

darknessmalice: you make some good points but there are flaws and oversights invloved.

Weezing can switch into swampert on an obvious eq, Then it is strong enough special def wise to take a surf and WoW the pert, eliminating it's physical effectiveness.

Oh yes, and surely I'll let my Swampert in when every Natural Cure Flash Fire or Resttalk pokemon can absorb the WoW? Not to count how easy is to counter Weezing? Not to count that 1 times in 4 you will get royally screwed because Will-o-Wisp will miss?

As for metagross, the only kind of meta that can hit hard enough to 2 hko a weezing, is one with a CB. If you notice you cannot take another MM and the meta takes no life orb damage, you can safely assume CB use and switch to something that can take steel. As for Gliscor, it should much more fair the dreaded ice punch.

It continue to seem like all pokemon Weezing face are Ingrained and cant switch...

The special attack ev's thing is bull. I have long been using a weezing, It has a lot of iv's in special attack But No ev's and I have yet to meet a gyrados I couldn't Ohko with t bolt.

0 Sp atk EV Weezing against Standard 156 HP EVs BulkyGyara: 65,95% - 77,57%...

As for the Shoddy vs wifi spectrum:
I think wifi should either have a separate list or shoddy do what it should and relate it's battle situations in the same way that wifi allows.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about it's the new stats of skymin and the rotoms that are absent from wifi. So on wifi rotom isn't worth a mention as a gyara or lu counter because it doesn't have all the def.

Because the true Battle situation is wifi and to ignore that and only think of the knock off shoddy is just...........wrong.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but, as you may have noticed from the calculation everyone here, Skiddle first, are related to Shoddy. Smogondex, smogon analysis, smogon competitive discussion are related to a world where pokemon have 31 IVs, where Skymin and Rotom appliances kick asses right and back... Sorry, but we dont care Wi-Fi
 
I'll responed to the part about the swampert,

Read on why I mentioned that, Some surf talk was mentioned so all I was saying is while weezing may nevre win a match against pert, It poses a much bigger threat to it that the rival gliscor does. As the both can switch in on pert in the same way, only weezing can take the next hit and do something worth while to pert at the same time.

Gliscor on the other hand would last the next hit and even if it could, there is nothing usfluu it could do to pert aside for the underused/less valuable knock off.

As for gyara,

Bulky dos must be very very rare because like I said, as long as I was not haxed, my weezing has killed all gyrados 100% of the time with one hit....

Also, there petty much isn't a way for gliscor (the rival) to counter any kind of gyarados, so it lost in that categorey from the start.

Edit:

What it all boils down to is, I agree with this guy, with platnium weezing is the better choice over gliscor. Whats happening here is critisism of weez's weak point, but newsflash! All pokemon has flaws nothing is perfect. Blissey dies t sooo many physical threats but that dosent stop it from being an absulute beast. Weezing is now more of a viable OU poke and the thing is, it was always viable.
 
I agree Weezing is definitaly overated, and an OK alternative to these, although its best used in tandem with one of these guys.
And Pain Split is alot more useful than alot of you guys think, it hurts the other guy too rememeber?
Also, he doesnt do too bad against Garchomp(Which isnt banned everywhere yet i believe)
 
Weezing wouldn't be in UU if Gliscor didn't outclass it as a physical wall. You know there's a reason it's in that tier?

Gliscor has higher stats, and STAB EQ to hammer foes with. Gliscor switches in, Lucario Sword Dances, it dies from EQ.

Weezing switches in, Lucario Sword Dances. Lucario uses Extreme Speed, Weezing uses Flamethrower. Lucario uses Close Combat, dead Weezing.

Hippodown switches in, Lucario uses Sword Dance. Lucario uses Close Combat, Hippodown uses EQ. Lucario fainted!

Gyarados switches in. Lucario was intimidated! Lucario uses SD. Lucario uses Extreme Speed, Gyarados uses EQ, dead Lucario.

Weezing switches in, Lucario uses SD. Lucario used Extreme Speed, Weezing used Will-o-Wisp. Lucario was burned! Lucario used Extreme Speed, Weezing used Flamethrower. Lucario used Close Combat, Weezing fainted!

Dusknoir switched in, Lucario used SD. Lucario used Ice Punch, Dusknoir used Will-o-Wisp, Lucario was burned! Lucario used Ice Punch, Dusknoir used Fire Punch. Lucario was hurt by its burn! Dusknoir used Shadow Sneak, Lucario fainted!

-----------------
I didn't use damage calcz, but I'm pretty sure I got it right. Weezing just can't stand up like other walls. It's good in some scenarios, but not the greatest against Lucario.
 
too_talls said:
No one ever thought of weezing has a tboah counter,

Any smart player would switch weez out on the dight of a t tar for a proper counter.

This is not to say the gliscor is t tar safe.
Some t boh's carry ice beam wich is gliscor death.

But admitingly so, gliscor can sometimes countering tboah whilst weezing can pretty much never do it. But thats still leaves weezing ahead counter more ou threats safely than gliscor.

But once again gliss will find it self burned in the form of a freeze once in a while whilst trying to counter tboah.
Click to expand...

You're missing my point. My point is that Luke, Gyara, Salamence, Scizor, Machamp, any of these physical sweepers who are supposedly "walled" by weezing can easily pop a substitute in its face. At worst they lose 1/4 of their health (or less if they have lefties) and at best they might get the chance to take weezing down without it accomplishing anything. While sub might not be their most common move, if you haven't seen them use it once in a while, you haven't been playing enough.

Fact is that weezing can't do much to enemies who it doesn't specifically counter, so it has to rely on w-o-w/painsplit to try and hit switch ins. If it doesn't take the risk to go straight to those moves sometimes, it'll just end up being set-up fodder all game. Add to that the problem of pokemon like gengar, skymin, jolteon, zapdos, heatran, boah, can all have a high chance of carrying substitute and using weezing to set up does not help its case.


BTW-- if you think that every weezing runs away at the sight of ttar without trying to w-o-w it, all I can say is that you haven't been using ttar enough. It seems stupid if I mention it like this, but can you honestly tell me you would not be tempted to try to cripple that potential CB tar for the rest of the game? Besides, even if you do switch weezing out immediately, it's not like ttar doesn't still get the free substitute . . . I do use boah extensively, and there's a reason why I see weezing, dusknoir and spiritomb as set up bait (btw, the average calm/bold tomb cannot break boah's substitue with HP fight, lol).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top