Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[jbtc10]

There's also this:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 374-442 (111.9 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Since Skarm is the most common physical wall and roadblock for Diggersby, it's worth a slot, otherwise Skarm will Whirlwind or Counter so the 2HKO isn't realistic unless Skarm has already lost around 50%. It also prevents you from being completely walled by levitating ghosts like Gengar and Balloon Aegislash which are total stops to standard Diggersby. He doesn't even need a boost (or even SR most of the time) to kill Gengar either, which is really nice for pinging him on the obvious switch.

252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 250-294 (95.4 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Diggersby really wants 5 moves though, which is something that annoys him quite a lot.

 

[Karxrida]

1. Mega Manectric should stay B rank. It takes up the mega slot and doesn't hit hard enough (flamethrower fails to OHKO sp.def Ferro). Volt Switch can be used to scout, but Zapdos can do that too, and it also has access to Defog, Roost and Heat Wave. Also, Mega Manectric is frail even with Intimidate, and it can't do anything about most special attackers, unless they are weak to its STAB. Honestly everything it does can also be done by Zapdos.

2. Nominating Weavile for B-/B rank. Weavile is the fastest Knock Off user with STAB in the game iirc. It also has much less counters than in Gen V because Steel no longer resists its dark stab. It's able to beat all the S rank Pokemon (even Zard X after SR and Aegislash with prediction). Also, Weavile is still one of the best dragon slayers in the game. It's BL for a reason, you know.

3. Nominating Diggersby for B- rank. Needs Choice Band to be of any use in my opinion, since the Choice Scarf set doesn't hit hard enough. The CB set, however, relies too much on prediction.

Weavile is a shit answer to Aegislash, since all of its moves that hit it S.E. require contact. Most other things that can beat the sword either ignore King's Shield entirely or just dgaf about it. Also, you mispredict once and you lose your check. Not cripple, LOSE.

 

[TFL]

The following Pokemon have had their analysis rejected and are either never worth the team slot or possess a niche too microscopic to be ranked (We are not ranking Pokemon for the sake of ranking them):

Galvantula,

Celebi,

Durant,

Gourgeist-XL,

Ninetales,

Venusaur,

Azelf,

Milotic,

Rotom-C,

Shaymin,

Empoleon,

Jellicent,

Jirachi,

Machamp,

Mawile,

Noivern,

Tentacruel,

Trevenant,

Weezing, and

Whimsicott.

Edit: I agree, theV8man. A couple should be left in D rank, but the large majority need to go.

 

[theV8man]

The following Pokemon have had their analyses rejected and are either never worth the team slot or possess a niche too microscopic to be ranked (We are not ranking Pokemon for the sake of ranking them):

Celebi,

Durant,

Gourgeist-XL,

Ninetales,

Venusaur,

Azelf,

Milotic,

Rotom-C,

Shaymin,

Empoleon,

Jellicent,

Jirachi,

Machamp,

Mawile,

Noivern,

Tentacruel,

Trevenant,

Weezing, and

Whimsicott.

Galvantula -> D or unranked
See this post and the following posts. There is but one reason to keep it listed: Its analysis hasn't been completely rejected yet.

I agree with most of these besides Celebi and Tentacruel. Celebi acts as a near-prefect counter to pokemon like Keldeo and Terrakion and in some cases fits teams perfectl. Tentacruel is one of the few spinners who can tank hits from the most popular spinblocker: Aegislash. PLus it resists fairy and counters Azumarill.

 

[Durant]

The following Pokemon have had their analyses rejected and are either never worth the team slot or possess a niche too microscopic to be ranked (We are not ranking Pokemon for the sake of ranking them):

Celebi,

Durant,

Gourgeist-XL,

Ninetales,

Venusaur,

Azelf,

Milotic,

Rotom-C,

Shaymin,

Empoleon,

Jellicent,

Jirachi,

Machamp,

Mawile,

Noivern,

Tentacruel,

Trevenant,

Weezing, and

Whimsicott.

Galvantula -> D or unranked
See this post and the following posts. There is but one reason to keep it listed: Its analysis hasn't been completely rejected yet.

I agree, theV8man. A couple should/will be left ranked somewhere, but the large majority need to go.

While I do agree C and D rank need to be cleaned up, you are forgetting C and D rank are for Pokemon with really small niches. But out of those the only ones that would be deserving of a ranking would be Celebi ( has fallen a long way from BW but still has a niche or 2 ), Whimsicott ( good as an all around supporter with moves like Memento, Stun Spore and U-Turn. Also noobs stop using Subseed Whimsicott ), and Venusaur ( Basically a requirement for the rare sun teams and while sun isn't what it used to be, it is still a viable playstyle ). Although all the Pokemon with a rejected analysis need to go because they are just filling up the viability ranking and new players will then think those Pokemon are actually viable.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

The following Pokemon have had their analysis rejected and are either never worth the team slot or possess a niche too microscopic to be ranked (We are not ranking Pokemon for the sake of ranking them):

Celebi,

Durant,

Gourgeist-XL,

Ninetales,

Venusaur,

Azelf,

Milotic,

Rotom-C,

Shaymin,

Empoleon,

Jellicent,

Jirachi,

Machamp,

Mawile,

Noivern,

Tentacruel,

Trevenant,

Weezing, and

Whimsicott.

Galvantula -> D or unranked
See this post and the following posts. There is but one reason to keep it listed: Its analysis hasn't been completely rejected yet.

Edit: I agree, theV8man. A couple should/will be left ranked somewhere, but the large majority need to go.

I don't understand why there was so much neglected analysis here. Sorry but I don't underatdn some of the cases, specially the ones from:
-Celebi
-Ninetales (you can't make a sun team with only MCharizard Y).
-Venusaur (has a "strong" niche on sun teams).
-Azelf (it's strong, more one dimensional than Alakazam and has the niche of SR (however outclassed by Doexys-S)
-Jirachi 1) it was S in Gen V) and even though the new weakness sucks, I see a place for some of the Gen V Jirachi sets.

I noticed that a big part of the list you provided has a problem with an S rank pokemon and his more popular moves. And I think it's doing more problems in ranked pokemon.

 

[Durant]

If we are speaking about C and D tier Pokemon than I am bringing up Ludicolo:

While Ludicolo might seem out of place in OU it has always found a niche in OU as it is one of the best choices for a Rain ( Dance ) team available. With Kabutops and Kingdra sitting at B+ and B respectively why is Ludicolo, an important Pokemon for Rain ( Dance ) teams sitting in C-. Ludicolo is also a quite versatile Pokemon in the rain with two sets it can run: Subseed and an Rain Dance sweeper. Ludicolo's Subseed set is a more defensive set which can annoy opponents quite a bit with Rain Dish, Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed which allows it to make infinite Substitute's until the opposing Pokemon faints or switches out. Grass types, usually a great block to Subseeding shenanigans also have to watch out for Ice Beam availability. However this set isn't quite as good as it once was with the rain nerf that happened. It's offensive set however takes a different approach and is more about trying to nap as many KOs as possible before rain runs out. A simple set consisting of Hydro Pump, Giga Drain, Ice Beam and Focus Blast or Rain Dance can be quite threatening if you don't have a good answer to it. While base 90 special attack might be underwhelming it's Rain Boosted Life Orb Hydro Pumps hit quite hard even though it's other moves are a bit on the weak side. However the big reason to use Ludicolo on rain teams is because of it's dual grass typing and the ability to defeat common threats for rain teams in Gastrodon and if it runs Focus Blast, Ferrothorn. Ludicolo his weird typing also grants him a 4x resistance to Water attacks which can help against opposing water type Pokemon and with it's decent base 100 special defense it doesn't really mind taking too many water hits. Ludicolo is pretty versatile and it is a great asset to rain teams. While succesful rain teams can be made without Ludicolo it is still one of the best Pokemon to consider for a rain team and it is way better than it's ranking at the moment suggests. However the reason it isn't gonna be any higher is because it is next to useless outside of rain and needs rain to do anything.

Nominating Ludicolo for B- / B rank.
Also dancing pineapple man what is not to love about it :)

 

[Karxrida]

I don't understand why there was so much neglected analysis here. Sorry but I don't underatdn some of the cases, specially the ones from:
-Celebi
-Ninetales (you can't make a sun team with only MCharizard Y).
-Venusaur (has a "strong" niche on sun teams).
-Azelf (it's strong, more one dimensional than Alakazam and has the niche of SR (however outclassed by Doexys-S)
-Jirachi 1) it was S in Gen V) and even though the new weakness sucks, I see a place for some of the Gen V Jirachi sets.

I noticed that a big part of the list you provided has a problem with an S rank pokemon and his more popular moves. And I think it's doing more problems in ranked pokemon.

Celebi does have some niches, but requires a lot of team support to be effective.
Ninetails is kinda shit on its own, unlike Politoed who can actually threaten things. Sun also has team synergy problems.
Venusaur can't sweep anymore because it's too dependent on Sun to be effective. Excadrill, another weather sweeper, is still threatening outside of sand and has several sets available.
Azelf is frail and outclassed in all of its sets. Suicide lead sets can beat Deo-D without Magic Coat, but that's it.
The entire meta shits on Jirachi; Knock Off, Bisharp, Aegislash, Rotom-W, Excadrill, Lando-I, Lando-T, and Thundurus-I are everywhere and would just love taking advantage of Jirachi.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Ludicolo shouldn't be moved up. The other Swift Swimmers are just that much better, there's little reason to use Ludicolo over them.
And, speaking of Swift Swimmers, there is another to be ranked.

Seismitoed -> B-
Hear he me out here, while Seismitoed competes for a team slot with Kingdra is has two major things going for it: Seismitoed handles Thundurus-i, a major threat to Rain Offense, very well and its access to Focus Blast makes Ferrothorn a shaky check.

Yeah, it comes with its own share of pitballs, but what it provides is just too major for a Rain team to not consider.

snotjoch described why quite well
[quote="Snotjoch, post: 5432829, member: 200081]"However the big reason to use Ludicolo on rain teams is because of it's dual grass typing and the ability to defeat common threats for rain teams in Gastrodon and if it runs Focus Blast, Ferrothorn. [/quote]
kabutops gets screwed over by gastro. kingdra gets screwed over by ferrothorn. ludicolo beats both of them while only having a slightly lower special attack than kingdra (90 vs 95)

 

[Karxrida]

snotjoch described why quite well
[quote="Snotjoch, post: 5432829, member: 200081]"However the big reason to use Ludicolo on rain teams is because of it's dual grass typing and the ability to defeat common threats for rain teams in Gastrodon and if it runs Focus Blast, Ferrothorn.
kabutops gets screwed over by gastro. kingdra gets screwed over by ferrothorn. ludicolo beats both of them while only having a slightly lower special attack than kingdra (90 vs 95)

252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 165-195 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You're asking Ludicolo to hit with Focus Blast twice, which is a 49% chance of happening, while Ferrothorn still hits you hard or kills you outright. That's not including the fact that it could be Specially Defensive or Mixed Tank, which give you an even harder time.

252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 146-172 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Ferrothorn: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

The second one is the standard spread from last gen since I have no idea what mixed tank Ferro runs this gen.

 

[Durant]

252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 165-195 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You're asking Ludicolo to hit with Focus Blast twice, which is a 49% chance of happening, while Ferrothorn still hits you hard or kills you outright. That's not including the fact that it could be Specially Defensive or Mixed Tank, which give you an even harder time.

252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 146-172 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Ferrothorn: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

The second one is the standard spread from last gen since I have no idea what mixed tank Ferro runs this gen.

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 190-224 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Ferrothorn: 216-255 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You forgot to add in the Life Orb. Power Whip also has an 15 % chance to miss which can also cost some matches and Giga Drain can solve the health loss when you use it on another Pokemon later on despite Giga Drain even with STAB being a weak move. And generally Ferrothorn is more physically defensive to stop Belly Drum Azumarill nowadays and:

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 257-304 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Not sure if this is the standard Ferrothorn spread but it can OHKO with a little tiny bit of chip damage and Stealth Rock. Ludicolo is also the most reliable way to beat Ferrothorn out of all the Swift Swimmers available. There is Poliwrath and Low Kick Kabutops but Poliwrath is unheard of in OU and Kabutops already has moveslot problems with Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Aerial Ace, X Scissor and Knock Off.

 

[Karxrida]

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 190-224 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Ferrothorn: 216-255 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You forgot to add in the Life Orb. Power Whip also has an 15 % chance to miss which can also cost some matches and Giga Drain can solve the health loss when you use it on another Pokemon later on despite Giga Drain even with STAB being a weak move. And generally Ferrothorn is more physically defensive to stop Belly Drum Azumarill nowadays and:

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 257-304 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Not sure if this is the standard Ferrothorn spread but it can OHKO with a little tiny bit of chip damage and Stealth Rock. Ludicolo is also the most reliable way to beat Ferrothorn out of all the Swift Swimmers available. There is Poliwrath and Low Kick Kabutops but Poliwrath is unheard of in OU and Kabutops already has moveslot problems with Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Aerial Ace, X Scissor and Knock Off.

You are still asking for a 49% chance of hitting Ferrothorn twice versus Ferrothorn's 72ish% chance of hitting you twice and still 2HKOing you with no offensive investment. When your best answer to a mon you're supposed to be killing gives your target a better chance of killing you instead, there's a problem.
Also Life Orb give Ferro an easier time of killing you so that's not helping you when it doesn't turn your 2HKO into a OHKO.

 

[Durant]

You are still asking for a 49% chance of hitting Ferrothorn twice versus Ferrothorn's 72ish% chance of hitting you twice and still 2HKOing you with no offensive investment. When your best answer to a mon you're supposed to be killing gives your target a better chance of killing you instead, there's a problem.
Also Life Orb give Ferro an easier time of killing you so that's not helping you when it doesn't turn your 2HKO into a OHKO.

It isn't a OHKO when Ferrothorn uses Power Whip against Ludicolo. Also while Focus Blast is annoying with it's accuracy why would it be a huge problem for Ludicolo when alot of other Pokemon also rely on it. Gengar relies on Focus Blast, Alakazam relies on Focus Blast, Reuniclus relies on Focus Blast, Charizard Y ( not always ) relies on Focus Blast, so many Pokemon rely on Focus Blast. Yes relying on Focus Blast's trolly accuracy isn't great but Ferrothorn can't live 2 hits from Ludicolo. To add to that Ferrothorn has no reliable recovery outside of Leftovers and Leech Seed and can be worn down over time before Ludicolo can easily finish it if Focus Blast hits. Ferrothorn also has to switch in on other Swift Swim abusers a rain team has to offer like Kabutops and Kingdra making staying healthy a pretty difficult job for Ferrothorn.

 

[Karxrida]

It isn't a OHKO when Ferrothorn uses Power Whip against Ludicolo. Also while Focus Blast is annoying with it's accuracy why would it be a huge problem for Ludicolo when alot of other Pokemon also rely on it. Gengar relies on Focus Blast, Alakazam relies on Focus Blast, Reuniclus relies on Focus Blast, Charizard Y ( not always ) relies on Focus Blast, so many Pokemon rely on Focus Blast. Yes relying on Focus Blast's trolly accuracy isn't great but Ferrothorn can't live 2 hits from Ludicolo. To add to that Ferrothorn has no reliable recovery outside of Leftovers and Leech Seed and can be worn down over time before Ludicolo can easily finish it if Focus Blast hits. Ferrothorn also has to switch in on other Swift Swim abusers a rain team has to offer like Kabutops and Kingdra making staying healthy a pretty difficult job for Ferrothorn.

I said 2HKO. Most of the things that rely on Focus Miss can do a shit ton of damage with it or do so when there's literally no other option (Gengar Focus Blasting a T-Tar that will Pursuit Trap it, for example). You don't seem to understand that the 1v1 match up is in Ferrothorn's favor beacause it's not relying on a 49% chance to kill something in 2 hits. There's also the fact that Gyro Ball does like 40% to Ludicolo anyway if the Ferrothorn player doesn't want to rely on Power Whip, it can still use Thunder Wave to cripple you, and Protect can be used for stalling out the Rain AND for Lefties recovery.

 

[Durant]

I said 2HKO. Most of the things that rely on Focus Miss can do a shit ton of damage with it or do so when there's literally no other option (Gengar Focus Blasting a T-Tar that will Pursuit Trap it, for example). You don't seem to understand that the 1v1 match up is in Ferrothorn's favor beacause it's not relying on a 49% chance to kill something in 2 hits. There's also the fact that Gyro Ball does like 40% to Ludicolo anyway if the Ferrothorn player doesn't want to rely on Power Whip, it can still use Thunder Wave to cripple you, and Protect can be used for stalling out the Rain AND for Lefties recovery.

Yeah I probably mentioned it all wrong but what I really mean is that out of all the Swift Swim Pokemon Ludicolo has the most of a chance against Ferrothorn. Still it can beat Ferrothorn if it switches in Focus Blast while other Swift Swimmers have 0% of winning against Ferrothorn at all ( Kingdra, Omastar ). Also one thing I forgot to mention is that Ludicolo doesn't take super effective damage from Electric attacks which is a huge bonus as it isn't completely useless against the likes of Thunderus and Mega Manectric. While Seismitoed also shares this trait Seismitoed is even weaker than Ludicolo.

 

[rachet67]

Another huge problem with Ludicolo is Talonflame and Pinsir. Other, more viable swift swimmers, have either the typing or bulk to take a brave bird and OHKO in return. Since rain only last 8 turns, and you often don't get more than a few chances to set it up, you absolutely cannot lose momentum. The fact Talonflame can always force it out (and Pinsir with stealth rock damage), makes that momentum really hard to keep. Other problems are its lack of a boosting move, that there are a lot of reasonably bulky mons that can tank the boosted hydro pump, and the fact that it's absolutely useless outside of rain.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

If anything, Mega Manectric should move below B rank, to maybe B- rank. What's the point of a pivot who could potentially get murdered/badly injured on its first switch in, thanks to its lack of resistances and its base form's poor stats? The lack of recovery also compounds the problem. A pivot should be able to safely switch in and recover momentum against your team's bad match-ups. What does MegaManectric bring to the table that Rotom-W and Zapdos don't have? Rotom-W and Zapdos at least have a ground immunity going for them, and bring additional utility.

It plays a lot like Genesect imo. It threatens to KO a large portion of the meta, and anything it can't KO it can volt-switch out of, dealing chip damage and still getting that intimidate off. Just like Genesect, you switch it in whenever you think your opponent is going to switch: chances are, Mega Man checks whatever comes out and can LOLVOLTSWITCH or just try for an OHKO.

Hide

Aegislash Overheat does a number but so does Shadowball. Call it a tie. Intimidate means it's only going to be able to use Shadowball anyway.

Charizard (Mega-X) loses, but intimidate makes it easier to handle for something else

Deoxys-D walled

Deoxys-S lmao 2fast, Psycho Boost OHKOs

Landorus-I 252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 324-384 (101.2 - 120%)

Thundurus-I 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 183-216 (61 - 72%), Thundy can't do much back

A+ Rank

Azumarill 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 362-428 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, AV sets still lose since it can't KO back

Bisharp Intim gives +1 and Sucker Punch KOs so be careful around Bisharp

Charizard (Mega-Y) 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 270-318 (90.6 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO basically any amount of prior damage (rocks) and this is a guaranteed KO.

Garchomp 252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 312-368 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock again, only needs the slightest amount of additional damage to guarantee OHKO, spikes would do it. Loses to bulkier sets.

Greninja Thundarbelt

Gyarados (Mega) 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 242-288 (72.8 - 86.7%) normal form loses 25% from Stealth Rock, and even if it didn't it can volt switch to do quite a lot of damage and let something else handle -1 Gyarados/grab muhmentum. Even at +1 speed you outspeed so it can revenge kill, too.

Keldeo Funderbalt

Mawile (Mega) Overheat OHKOs, -1 Sucker Punch does 55% max

Pinsir (Mega) Henderbolt, or even Volt Switch. Or Overheat if it's unevolved. Resists Aerialate Quick Attack.

Scizor (Mega) FLAMMENWERFER or Overheat

Talonflame Volt-Switch

Tyranitar (Mega) loses badly but lol volt-switch, something else can handle -1 Tyranitar

Venusaur (Mega) walled

A Rank

Clefable walled

Dragonite 252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 272-320 (83.9 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, but if scale is not broken you can still volt switch out. You outspeed even when it's at +1 speed.

Excadrill OHKOed by Overheat, Scarf sets a shit so scout those out first

Ferrothorn Flammenwerfer or Overheat

Gengar Thunderbolt does max of 86.2%, LO Sludge Bomb does up to 96% back so you can only check ones that are slightly weakened.

Heatran walled

Hippowdon walled

Kyurem-B loses to Earth Power but you got that intimidate off so other stuff can deal with it easily

Landorus-T 252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 324-384 (84.8 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, look out for scarf/AV sets.

Latios loses

Rotom-W 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, can't KO back

Terrakion loses to CB or Scarf Earthquake but Intimidate

Tyranitar walled but Intimidate

A- Rank

Chansey lmao 2fat

Latias walled

Mamoswine loses

Manaphy Udderbolt, even Wacan Berry sets lose if it's at +0 as it can't OHKO back

Mandibuzz Bolted

Politoed Bolted

Scizor Burned

Skarmory Bolt

Zapdos Specially defensive sets win, maybe, but most are physical so this is a 2HKO after rocks

So yeah. Mega Man checks and wins against 2.5 of S rank and the entirety of A+ rank, barring Bisharp, Mega Venusaur and Mega T-Tar. But T-Tar is still intimidated; this is why Mega Man is so good, anything it can't win against it can just volt-switch out of and let something else handle.

So to answer, "What does MegaManectric bring to the table that Rotom-W and Zapdos don't have," it's:
-Speed (135 base speed is fast as balls, the only things even ranked that are faster are Deo-S and Mega Aerodactyl, as well as Swift Swimmers and some Scarfers.)
-Intimidate
-a bit more power (LO Zapdos hits harder but you still don't have much speed, and you don't have Over Heat)
-EDIT: Lightning Rod before mega evolving dissuades the use of stuff like Priority Thunder Wave or Volt Switch. I've swept whole teams more than a few times with a +1 Mega Man.

 

[Kyuzeth]

So I've just taken a look at Sergeant Spooky's matchups list against the A- and S-Ranked Pokémon and have definitely made up my mind: Mega Manectric for A Rank. I'll still be happy if it ends up being A-, but now I just really want to see it in A.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Ok, as the writer of the Celebi analysis, and the one who basically asked for it to be rejected, I'm going to share why Celebi isn't effective.

• Mega Venusaur totally eclipses Celebi; better bulk, better Offensive / Defensive stats, better ability... All Celebi can boast over this thing is reliably recovery and not taking up a Mega Slot.
  
• Celebi also faces a ton of competition from Shaymin as an offensive Grass-type due to Shaymin's much better STAB Grass attack.
• Dark and Ghost buffs hurt. A lot. Now, Celebi is terribly prone to being Pursuit-trapped Pokemon such as Bisharp and Balloon Aegislash, while Pursuit Tyranitar and Weavile still give it trouble.
• Hates a ton of common Pokemon, such as Heatran, Scizor, Talonflame, both Charizard forms, Greninja, Pinsir, etc. While it can run coverage moves to beat these threats, it can't run them all at the same time with both dual STABs and Recover, giving it serious 4MMS
• Rain nerf made the need for a Grass-type much smaller, to the point where only the best Grass-types are really usable (Mega Venusaur, Ferrothron, Breloom)

I mean, D rank is perfectly fine for Celebi, but a large number of problem prevent this thing from going any higher.

Also, D-Rank, in my opinion, should be composed of the following Pokemon:

• Celebi
• Jellicent
• Jirachi
• Ninetales
• Shaymin
• Tentacruel

There are some borderline ones such as Trevenant, Gourgeist-XL, Milotic, and Venusaur, though I'll let the rest of you decide about those.

 

[LightningLuxray]

I think Whimsicott, G-XL, and Milotic belong there, as well as Exploud (who needs to be ranked).

:O Oh I didn't even realize Exploud wasn't ranked, yeah D would be fine for it.

Also I haven't had much experience with Whimsicott in OU but from what I've heard it's garbage, I'll let other people decide on it.

 

[DiscoPine]

I would like to nominate Crawdaunt for B+.

In terms of stall breakers I don't think that any pokemon can match the banded set. Most stall teams don't have anything to stop in besides Mega Venusaur, and even then it 2HKOs it the turn it comes in with Crabhammer or Knock Off. I think every stall team should fear Crawdaunt because with max speed he outspeed almost all of the common stall pokemon.

 

[theV8man]

The only niche that I've personally found useful for Exploud is a Choice Specs Boomburst set with Trick Room support. Boomburst can KO anything frail, and 2HKO's bulky Pokemon, and even many steel types. Without Trick Room support it's too slow and doesn't have much use in OU. D is a good ranking.

 

[skies]

Ok, now my spiel on Diggersby.

Diggersby versus S and A+ Rank Pokemon

S Rank:

Aegislash
Aegislash is instantly OHKOed by Earthquake in even Shield form. Sacred Sword is only a OHKO around ~18% of the times on SubToxic sets, meaning Aegislash is pretty much beaten. Sacred Sword is also not the most common (certainly not uncommon), but it sometimes will not have it. Iron Head also does not OHKO. Diggersby also outspeeds 252+ Aegislash, so it can always hit before it. If you switch Diggersby in on a Shadow Ball, then you can either a.) set up a free Swords Dance or b.) Be safe and use Earthquake. Diggersby usually forces out Aegislash, so you can attempt to set up a Swords Dance, but the Sacred Sword can be scary. However, almost 99% of the time, Diggersby will prevail against Aegislash.

Charizard (Mega-X)
Surprisingly, Dragon Claw does not OHKO Diggersby at +0. Diggersby OHKOes with Earthquake in return, Return even has a chance to OHKO! But, Diggersby cannot beat Will-O-Wisp sets without being crippled in the process and it is instantly killed by Flare Blitz or any of M-Zard X's +1 moves. +2 Quick Attack has a chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, that's really cool and shows the true power of Diggersby. It's a risky matchup, but Diggersby has an ok chance to beat it if it isn't hit first in return!

Deoxys-D
Deoxys-D can not do anything to Diggersby, Superpower is not a 2HKO while +2 Return OHKOes even 252 / 252+ Deoxys-D. Diggersby is just really strong lol. Also, Diggersby is immune to Red Card because +2 Return OHKOes, so Red Card will not take impact. Diggersby is winning in this situation, Deoxys-D will not be doing anything in return besides setting up hazards I guess.

Deoxys-S
Return will OHKO Deoxys-S 100% of the time, while Quick Attack OHKOes it at +2 without Stealth Rock! Superpower has a 25% chance to OHKO, while Psycho Boost has a 75% chance to OHKO. If Diggersby has set up though, Deoxys-S will lose, but often Deoxys-S can hold its own. Dual Screen sets are a different story, +2 Return OHKOes through Reflect without Stealth Rock once again. Diggersby after it has set up can beat 100% of Deoxys-S, but before it has only Dual Screens sets will lose.

Landorus-I
Obviously Focus Blast will OHKO, however so does +2 Quick Attack (well 12.5%, but with a bit of prior damage it is a 100%). Return also OHKOes it at +0, so it cannot switch in safely. Focus Blast could also miss, so there's that. It's pretty risky to stay in, but it could pay off. Once again, with proper prediction, Diggersby can use Return on the switch if the opponent thought Diggersby would use Earthquake.

Thundurus-I
Thundurus OHKOes with Focus Blast, of course. +2 Quick Attack has an 87.5% chance to OHKO, yeah... Return OHKOes it at +0, though. Thundurus-I cannot safely switch in, while Diggersby can only switch in to Thunderbolt. However it is Diggersby's win if it has had a chance to set up. And there's the problem with letting Diggersby setup, it is terribly hard to stop at +2!

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time

A+ Rank

Azumarill
Return has a very high chance to OHKO it after Stealth Rock, but Diggerby cannot live any of Azumarill's hits, not even Aqua Jet. This other bunny certainly causes issues for Diggersby...

Bisharp
Bisharp has a 25% chance to OHKO with Knock Off, but Diggersby OHKOes with Earthquake and even outspeeds Adamant variants and Speed ties with Jolly variants. It's a risky 1v1, but Diggersby should prevail in most cases. Just to show the power of Diggersby, it OHKOes Bisharp with Return at +2.

Charizard (Mega-Y)
Return OHKOes, while +2 Quick Attack does as well. But, any of Focus Blast, Fire Blast, or Solar Beam will OHKO Diggersby.

Garchomp
Garchomp has a 18% chance to be OHKOed by +0 Return, while Outrage does not OHKO it. Diggersby, once again, can OHKO Garchomp with +2 Quick Attack after a bit of prior damage.

Greninja
+2 Quick Attack OHKOes it, but of course, Hydro Pump does as well. Greninja cannot switch in safely.

Gyarados (Mega)
Return OHKOes after Intimidate at +2, but Gyrados does OHKO in return with Waterfall.

Ok, so at this point, this is just gonna go on and on and on, so I'll cut to the chase.

Keldeo
Return OHKOes, Keldeo OHKOes in return.

Mawile (Mega)
Earthquake OHKOes, as does Mega Mawile in return.

Pinsir (Mega)
Return OHKOes, as does Mega Pinsir's own Return!

Scizor (Mega)
+2 Earthquake OHKOes, U-turn 2HKOes, Superpower OHKOes.

Talonflame
+2 Quick Attack OHKOes, Brave Bird does too.

Tyranitar (Mega)
Earthquake OHKOes, Ice Punch has a ~6% chance to OHKO.

Venusaur (Mega)
+2 Return OHKOes 252 / 252+, Giga Drain does not OHKO.

Do you see a trend? At +2 nothing can safely switch in, and at +0, very few Pokemon can switch in. It absolutely destroys slower teams and breaks down so many things. But, the issue with Diggersby is that it has such shitty bulk and Speed. Diggersby has a ton of weaknesses, such as Water-, Ice-, Fighting-, and Grass-type weaknesses, all very common bar Grass-type which still is used by some Pokemon. Diggersby also can use Choice Scarf to patch up its Speed issues. It's very unpredictable, it has Swords Dance, Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and more unconventional sets like Agility, or even AgiliDance. Diggersby's STAB moves are just great, and at +2 Return even 2HKOes Skarmory, one of the two Pokemon who are resistant to this STAB combination in OU, the other being Gengar, who is immune to Diggersby's STAB moves, but Wild Charge OHKOes both of the aforementioned Pokemon. Long story short: Diggersby stronk, Diggersby slow, Diggersby frail, Diggersby stays in B+ rank.

 

[Karxrida]

Can we finally remove Galvantula from the list now that its analysis has been rejected? It's outclassed at virtually everything it tries to do and Sticky Web is not exactly a niche when it's so situational and gives Bisharp a free Swords Dance as soon as it switches in.

EDIT: Did my stupid thing for the day and misread the post about rejected analyses. Remove the fucker anyway, though; it sucks.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Can we finally remove Galvantula from the list now that its analysis has been rejected? It's outclassed at virtually everything it tries to do and Sticky Web is not exactly a niche when it's so situational and gives Bisharp a free Swords Dance as soon as it switches in.

It was rejected? Awesome :D

Once we finish discussing Jukain's proposals, Gary said discussion on the B & C ranks would be ideal. To start this, I'll just propose bringing Tangrowth out of C rank. Its AV sets and Physical Wall sets are very good now, and very much appreciate the decrease in FlySpam. I think C+ would be appropriate, even B-. It's often compared to Amoongus, and the comparisons are clear. However, Tangrowth can differentiate itself by having monstrous physical bulk, being much more powerful, having knock off, being able to beat Heatran, resisting Ground, and being able to run AV effectively. C rank (it was demoted from C+) is far too low for something that handles everything without a Fire, Ice, Bug, Flying, or Poison move. The list may seem large, but the move types are all either uncommon or very obvious. Plus, Tangrowth actually likes being forced out, unlike other walls that get worn down by hazards easily.