Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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Mega Ampharos
Mega Ampharos can OHKO with Thunderbolt, but he's not going to have a fun time switching into a Sun-boosted fire blast (even if he resists) or worse... a dragon pulse.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 144-169 (37.5 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock



scarf Excadrill,
I would imagine certain other threats like Thundurus-I and Aegislash wouldn't have a fun time dealing with a scarfed Excadrill either. Just because a pokemon can't handle certain threats, it doesn't mean it's not worthy of S-rank. Besides, Excadrill is hardly a counter, he'll never find a safe opportunity to switch in on a Charizard-Y except after saccing another pokemon.


Garchomp,
Uh.. okay. Again, it's not that big of a deal if certain pokemon lose out to certain other pokemon in the A-rank. Again, S-rank Aegislash doesn't handle Garchomp so hot either.


252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 248-292 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Charizard-X is already set-up, Charizard-Y can't handle him (nor can many other pokemon handle a +1 Charizard-X). However, they both stand a 50% chance of OHKOing each other (due to speed tie) if Mega-Charizard-X hasn't danced yet.


and a few others take massive shits on Zard Y.
Kinda vague there.

really not hard to wall,
Between Fire Blast, Dragon pulse, Focus Blast, and Solarbeam, the only things that I can think of that's not OHKO or 2HKO by Charizard-Y is bulky Latias, Multi-scale Dragonite, Blissey, and Chansey. I can only think of four pokemon that can "wall" Charizard Y. If you can think of anything else, be my guest.
 
Mega Ampharos can OHKO with Thunderbolt, but he's not going to have a fun time switching into a Sun-boosted fire blast (even if he resists) or worse... a dragon pulse.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 144-169 (37.5 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock




I would imagine certain other threats like Thundurus-I and Aegislash wouldn't have a fun time dealing with a scarfed Excadrill either. Just because a pokemon can't handle certain threats, it doesn't mean it's not worthy of S-rank. Besides, Excadrill is hardly a counter, he'll never find a safe opportunity to switch in on a Charizard-Y except after saccing another pokemon.



Uh.. okay. Again, it's not that big of a deal if certain pokemon lose out to certain other pokemon in the A-rank. Again, S-rank Aegislash doesn't handle Garchomp so hot either.




252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 248-292 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Charizard-X is already set-up, Charizard-Y can't handle him (nor can many other pokemon handle a +1 Charizard-X). However, they both stand a 50% chance of OHKOing each other (due to speed tie) if Mega-Charizard-X hasn't danced yet.



Kinda vague there.


Between Fire Blast, Dragon pulse, Focus Blast, and Solarbeam, the only things that I can think of that's not OHKO or 2HKO by Charizard-Y is bulky Latias, Multi-scale Dragonite, Blissey, and Chansey. I can only think of four pokemon that can "wall" Charizard Y. If you can think of anything else, be my guest.
Goodra, Chansey. Blissey, Snorlax, Dragonite, Mega Ampharos, Rotom-H, Tentacruel, Porygon2, Specially Defensive Sylveon... none of them give a flying FUCK as they can tank a hit or two and either cripple, hit back hard, or stall out.

Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Talonflame, Mega Alakazam, Latios & Latias, Terrakion, Mega Pinsir, Landorus T, Thundurus... All of them outspeed and IMMEDIATELY threaten Zard-Y.

Countless scarfers that tear this thing a new asshole


and lets not forget


the 4x Stealth Rock Weakness



That being said, its strengths greatly outweigh its weaknesses. But it does have a good number OF them.

TL;DR: Zard-Y is already A+ and it's going to stay that way
 

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Mega Ampharos can OHKO with Thunderbolt, but he's not going to have a fun time switching into a Sun-boosted fire blast (even if he resists) or worse... a dragon pulse.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 144-169 (37.5 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock




I would imagine certain other threats like Thundurus-I and Aegislash wouldn't have a fun time dealing with a scarfed Excadrill either. Just because a pokemon can't handle certain threats, it doesn't mean it's not worthy of S-rank. Besides, Excadrill is hardly a counter, he'll never find a safe opportunity to switch in on a Charizard-Y except after saccing another pokemon.



Uh.. okay. Again, it's not that big of a deal if certain pokemon lose out to certain other pokemon in the A-rank. Again, S-rank Aegislash doesn't handle Garchomp so hot either.




252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 248-292 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Charizard-X is already set-up, Charizard-Y can't handle him (nor can many other pokemon handle a +1 Charizard-X). However, they both stand a 50% chance of OHKOing each other (due to speed tie) if Mega-Charizard-X hasn't danced yet.



Kinda vague there.


Between Fire Blast, Dragon pulse, Focus Blast, and Solarbeam, the only things that I can think of that's not OHKO or 2HKO by Charizard-Y is bulky Latias, Multi-scale Dragonite, Blissey, and Chansey. I can only think of four pokemon that can "wall" Charizard Y. If you can think of anything else, be my guest.
1.) Y is wallbreaker; of course shit like Ampharos isn't going to like switching into it.
2.) Nobody cares if you can counter Y when checking it is easy as fuck. The same cannot be said for X, who is much harder to check with its better physical bulk and the ability to run Will-O-Wisp to fuck up most of its normal checks.
3.) Thundurus-I can check Scarfed Excadrill. It can get a free NP or fuck up whatever switches in.
4.) Air Balloon Aegislash lulz at Excadrill and Garchomp.
5.) Having SR on your opponent's side is not likely when Y needs Defog support.
6.) X have been known to go bulky and will fuck your entire team if it gets off a single Dragon Dance.
 
Quick question. Since when is Dragon Pulse Zard Y a thing? It's never been a thing, its awful and never should be used. It's really really bad, there is little reason not to use Roost on it.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 144-169 (37.5 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
RestTalk Ampharos is the switch in to Zard Y, I dont know where this 252/0 spread is coming from. 248 HP / 196 SpD is the spread meaning the calc is this

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 196 SpD Mega Ampharos in Sun: 122-144 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 90% chance to 3HKO
44+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 236-278 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 248-292 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Charizard-X is already set-up, Charizard-Y can't handle him (nor can many other pokemon handle a +1 Charizard-X). However, they both stand a 50% chance of OHKOing each other (due to speed tie) if Mega-Charizard-X hasn't danced yet.
Dragon Pulse on Zard Y doesn't exist. No competent player would consider running it today.

I've posted multiple times why Zard Y was moved down. Refer to this post, this one, and this one because everything you've mentioned, I covered in those posts.
 
If Toxicroak is C-rank, Ludicolo should be too. Toxicroak was a rain sweeper, and Ludicolo is too. Okay, rain was nerfed this gen, but even so, Toxicroak and Ludicolo were equals.
 
If Toxicroak is C-rank, Ludicolo should be too. Toxicroak was a rain sweeper, and Ludicolo is too. Okay, rain was nerfed this gen, but even so, Toxicroak and Ludicolo were equals.
Ludicolo is actually much, much more threathening than Toxicroak if heavy rain is in play, and the ability to smash Ferrothorn(with Focus Blast) and bulky Waters in particular, while being neutral to Electric and Grass, give it a valuable niche for rain offense and should be ranked C+. Toxicroak on the other hand is slow, weak and doesn't provide useful offensive/defensive sinergy for rains besides Grass resist which is done better by Tornadus(I and expecially T) and should be ranked C- or D.
 

Anty

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If Toxicroak is C-rank, Ludicolo should be too. Toxicroak was a rain sweeper, and Ludicolo is too. Okay, rain was nerfed this gen, but even so, Toxicroak and Ludicolo were equals.
Just because they function best in rain, doesnt mean they should be in the same rank. Ludicolo is a very scary sweeper, being able to 2hko everything in the rain apart from the bolbs. Toxicroak requires a turn of set up to be strong as well as it is too slow, easily revenge killed and its only priority is non stab and easy to play around. Toxicroak is mostly outclassed by other set up sweepers (terrakion, bisharp), but has a small niche in being able to set up on bulky waters and being able to use bulk up. Ludicolo recieves compatition but isnt at all elipsed due to its secondary grass stab and focus blast.
I hope that clears it up for you and welcome to smogon :)
 
I have seen this posted before but can we please move Tyranitar to A+ with its Mega-Evolution? Normal Tyranitar has shown it is just as useful, if not better, than Mega-Tyranitar for awhile. Dragon Dance Mega-Tyranitar is a pretty sick sweeper, but it isn't so great as to immediately eclipse all other Tyranitar sets because really that is all I see Mega-Ttar being used for. The Choice Scarf set has shown itself to being useful to Pursuit trap for Charizard Y and Keldeo. More recently, Smooth Rock Tyranitar has made splash in the metagame supporting Sand Rush Excadrill, which is such a good combo to murder all the HO teams around. IMO, it would be much more indicative of the current metagame to list normal Tyranitar next to Mega-Tyranitar.
 
Subject 18 said:
Dragon Pulse on Zard Y doesn't exist. No competent player would consider running it today
As it turns out, quite a bit of people use DPulse on their Char-y's. Due to information that can be found here http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-04/moveset/ou-1760.0.txt, one will find that 42.254% of Charizard's are Mega Charizard Y's. 10.445% of Charizard's run Dragon Pulse. If we assume that this has been weighted so that stupid people don't count worth anything, we may discount Dpulse on ZardX and regular zard. Thus, (assuming this is the correct way to go about it), 10.445/42.254 of ZardY's run Dpulse, or almost 25% of good players run Dpulse on Zard y.
 

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I have seen this posted before but can we please move Tyranitar to A+ with its Mega-Evolution? Normal Tyranitar has shown it is just as useful, if not better, than Mega-Tyranitar for awhile. Dragon Dance Mega-Tyranitar is a pretty sick sweeper, but it isn't so great as to immediately eclipse all other Tyranitar sets because really that is all I see Mega-Ttar being used for. The Choice Scarf set has shown itself to being useful to Pursuit trap for Charizard Y and Keldeo. More recently, Smooth Rock Tyranitar has made splash in the metagame supporting Sand Rush Excadrill, which is such a good combo to murder all the HO teams around. IMO, it would be much more indicative of the current metagame to list normal Tyranitar next to Mega-Tyranitar.
Seconding this. Normal Tyranitar is incredibly versatile and easy to fit onto teams, while performing multiple roles. It's synergy with high end threats such as Landorus-I, Keldeo, Zard Y, Excadrill etc is well known. Scarftar alone is almost enough to make it a candidate for A+ tbh, it's one of the best answers in the game to the Latiis, Birdspam, Thundurus, Zard Y thanks to Sand, Dragonite by breaking Multi Scale, and can even bring down something like Bisharp with Superpower. I don't think I've ever played a single game where Scarf Tyranitar did not contribute. Even if there's no revenge kill targets, it can still support it's team with Sand, Pursuit etc, stall teams really really really do not like dealing with the residual Sand damage, especially when running Megasaur. It's plethora of weaknesses aren't actually as big a deal as it seems on paper because of it's titanic bulk. It's support sets, especially the Smooth Rock variants IMO push it into A+ range, one of the most reliable SR setters in the game+Pursuit trapper+weather support? Yes please.
 
While I agree w/ NWO's post about how normal Tar is almost equal to Mega Tar, I would have to say that I have played several games where because of the threat of Mega Tar, people switched into their normal DDMegaTar switchin's, allowing me to get up free rocks. Sometimes w/ Mega Tar, people stay in, trying to avoid the pursuit trap, allowing me to get up a free DD (or, almost free).
 

I'm honestly going to say this once because otherwise this is going into another useless argument where both sides accomplish nothing, so I'm going to just say the main points on Sharpedo's strong niche as a late-game sweeper. While it faces competition with Scolipede, the difference between them is what each sweeper is walled by and what it's not by. Scolipede also needs Defog / Rapid Spin support meaning that it is rather hard to fit in versus Sharpedo. Sharpedo also fairs much better against stall teams. While Scolipede can beat Clefable with Poison Jab and beat Heatran (though can't switch-in directly) with Earthquake, Sharpedo has a few perks making its role more valuable against this archetype. Sharpedo has Destiny Bond: this allows it to easily combat its common switch ins and scare them to attack and die (which can be pretty scary when you kill Clefable off it because then Garchomp, Mega DDTar, Mega Gyarados, etc can sweep your team because their biggest counter is removed). Mega Venusaur and Scizor remain to be stall teams most important walls and being able to remove them with Destiny Bond can be a game changer for a boosting teammate to sweep. Sharpedo still smokesHeatran and Hippowdon meaning that its not completely limited to Destiny Bond when weakened a little. Sharpedo's niche versus HO teams is pretty ridiculous Ajwf just like Scolipede. It limits Deoxys-D to one hazard with Crunch, meaning that you won't be as tempted to using Defog right away - still be tempted, but less tempted, unless you have like Talonflame of course. Its Waterfall is really strong late-game along with Crunch allowing you to hard press Skarmory for the 2HKO with prior damage. One of the more appealing features now is that it lets you beat the Tyranitar + Excadrill core which is a just a pain to face and HO teams (which this thing should be used on) struggle immensely with that core. Sharpedo also pair nicely with Deoxys-D because the hazards lets you get nifty KOs such as on Mega Tyranitar which once again HO teams struggle with and after SR + 1L Spikes, you have one of the best checks to it. It even beats Latios. If you were wondering why I'm naming things which Scolipede can do too, I also hope you realize that you just said Scolipede outclasses Sharpedo and I just proved that it did pretty much (almost) all the things Scolipede did along with the benefits of putting pressure to stall teams with Destiny Bond. Sure, they could Toxic stall, but by that time, Sharpedo could've killed the stall PKMN with repeated Waterfall / Crunches. It has uses and is just as good as Entei (which really isn't worth a teamslot, it has no definable niche outside of keeping more pressure in wallbreaking), Alakazam (you said it has great power but in reality, Sharpedo hits harder lol), and Ditto.
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And worst of all, it has competition for the slot by typing. Gyarados-m is far better. Crawdaunt is way more powerful, has boosting moves and priority. Greninja is a better speed/revenge killer.
Competititon in typing? Mega Gyarados takes up the mega slot and functions differently because it has to set up and then sweep including the fact it has no Dark-type STAB. Crawdaunt is a wall-breaker and you shouldn't be even comparing them. Aqua Jet isn't enough. It revenge kill Terrakion and Landorus-I, but Sharpedo does that anyways including that there are many things that can tan an Aqua Jet and KO back because it's much weaker compared to Sharpedo's Waterfall which has much more BP. Greninja shouldn't be compared as it functions completely differently. I've used Sharpedo a lot and I know what it has and when it can be justified as a slot for a team. It's perfectly fine in C+, but keeping it in rank with utter crap like Reuniclus, Slowking, and Celebi doesn't make sense. In fact, C Rank is not good enough. It's much better than 3/4 of the things in that list.

Also, Dugtrio and Magnezone should move to C+ along with Sharpedo. They have very useful trapping abilities that allow them to support powerful sweepers like Mega Pinsir. Also, please Darmanitan in D Rank just because its completely eclipsed by Entei which is C+.

EDIT: Darmanitan isn't ranked, I thought it was in C+, so I said that. anyways should stay unranked. It has enough recoil and SR problems compunded by the fact Entei hits really hard too and can spread burns. Entei has Extremespeed too meaning Darmanitan is much more easily RKed
 
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Could somebody explain to me why darmanitan is so outclassed?

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 147-173 (48.6 - 57.2%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 135-159 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Entei is banded and adamant and it's still weaker.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 242-285 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 198-234 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 157-186 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 370-436 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 522-615 (148.7 - 175.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I mean it obviously has a ton less bulk and it lacks the speed tier. But it can run a scarf and still hit much harder. It also has (IMO) a better movepool. Or is it simply sacred fire?
 
Also, please Darmanitan in D Rank just because its completely eclipsed by Entei which is C+.
This was a strange way to conclude that post, seeing as most of it was about giving reasons why Sharpedo wasn't outclassed by Scolipede. Last I checked, Entei didn't have access to U-Turn for momentum, Earthquake and Superpower, have 140 base attack, and an ability that isn't nearly useless (Sheer Force makes Darm a real nuke). Darm isn't that good or anything in OU, but it's not outclassed by Entei, because they're fairly different all things considered. I wouldn't have a problem with it dropping necessarily, but it wouldn't have anything to do with Entei's existence.
 
Or is it simply sacred fire?
imo... yes. Sacred fire makes it just so much harder to switch into it. Most fire resists can switch into darmi without much trouble, most of them are fucked up by sacred fire burns though. Things like better speed tier, more bulk and Extreme Speed further help Entei. The massiv recoil from Darmanitans main stab is another issue that speaks against it.

I wouldnt say its outclassed but as far as fire types go, there are just so many better choices.
 
If Darmanitan is outclassed by Entei, then how come it's one of the most common, and best pokemon in UU when Entei is also allowed in UU?

I mean, maybe Entei is better in OU because of the metagame, but I wouldn't say Darmanitan is outclassed...
 
They're sort of different animals (obviously they are different pokemon), but the trick w/ Darmanitan is that he just deals a humongous amount of damage, and I would go so far as to say that it is more outclassed by ZardX than by entei, which is not difficult to switch into because of damage, but becase of the side effect.
 
As it turns out, quite a bit of people use DPulse on their Char-y's. Due to information that can be found here http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-04/moveset/ou-1760.0.txt, one will find that 42.254% of Charizard's are Mega Charizard Y's. 10.445% of Charizard's run Dragon Pulse. If we assume that this has been weighted so that stupid people don't count worth anything, we may discount Dpulse on ZardX and regular zard. Thus, (assuming this is the correct way to go about it), 10.445/42.254 of ZardY's run Dpulse, or almost 25% of good players run Dpulse on Zard y.
What exactly does this prove? Your argument relies solely on usage stats which have been proven time and time again to be an unreliable source of what the meta actually looks like. The same ladder stats you are referencing still have Rotom-W as the #2 used Pokemon, Landorus-T at #7 and Conkeldurr at #15, while things like Terrakion, Gyarados, Landorus-I, Deo-S, Mawile and Breloom are getting so little usage when all of them are easily more effective.

Honestly ask yourself, why do you need Dragon Pulse anyway on Zard Y? To hit Latios and Latias? Why bother when Zard Y's best friends are Bisharp and ScarfTar both of which can come in and trap them. Dragonite can be handled by other things. Goodra is Goodra and Zard X can be handled by teammates. Why forgo recovery on a 4x SR weak Pokemon and really susceptible to status?
 
I would have no idea why anyone would use DPulse on ZardY, but I can tell that you did not read my post thoroughly. In it, I reference the movepool percentages from the 1760 usage stats, not the unweighted ones. To do otherwise would be foolish. I was merely refuting your point that in your mind,
Subject 18 said:
No competent player would consider running it today.
Apparently, some do.
 
No, I read your post and I specifically said usage stats are unreliable. Just because someone manages to get to 1760 doesn't make them competent players. There are tons of players that are above 1760 yet struggle to stay above a .500 win/loss. As I as in my last post, the same ladder plays you say are using Dragon Pulse on Zard Y are also the same players that play in to Rotom-W being #2 in usage, Lando-T being #7 while Mawile, Breloom, Deo-S and Landorus-I are far lower in usage.

tl;dr: usage stats don't mean anything and are very unreliable. Dont use them as an argument. If you can't justify why it would be used why are arguing as if it makes sense?


Edit: Anyway, this is derailing the thread. We're moving on from this...
 

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If Darmanitan is outclassed by Entei, then how come it's one of the most common, and best pokemon in UU when Entei is also allowed in UU?

I mean, maybe Entei is better in OU because of the metagame, but I wouldn't say Darmanitan is outclassed...
OU and UU are two completely different metagames. A Pokemon that might be really effective in OU might not be that good in UU, and vice-versa. You have to consider what the top threats in a metagame are and how the Pokemon you're talking about interacts with them. For example, Entei is a better answer to Aegislash because its main STAB move, Sacred Fire, doesn't make contact, which means that it doesn't have to fear Aegislash's King's Shield nearly as much as Darmanitan does. It also has Extreme Speed, which can pick off a weakened Thundurus without being paralyzed, which Darmanitan cannot do. Entei is also better at handling bulky Water-types because of Sacred Fire's high burn chance. Azumarill can no longer switch into it, and other Water-types including Rotom-Wash, Keldeo, etc. hate the passive damage from burns.

Darmanitan has a higher damage output for sure, but that's not as highly valued as the traits that Entei has over it.
 
Would just like to say Darmanitan does have U-turn to use on scarf/band sets. A small but pretty cool niche that allows you to obviously gain momentum, while also doing some nice damage to a lot of the common switch-ins that are expecting fire attacks such as Ttar and the Lati twins.
 
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Krookodile: C+ Rank -----> B- / B Rank
Krookodile is a very underrated threat in the current OU metagame, and it is kind of hard to see why. Krookodile has a solid defensive stat spread of 95 / 80 / 70, with a high base 117 Attack stat, and backed by Intimidate, its physical bulk sky rockets. Krookodile's unique typing gives it resistances to Rock-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves, allowing it to be the perfect counter to Tyranitar, amongst other things. It also gives it an immunity to Electric- and Psychic-types, which can come in handy. The best drawing point of Krookodile is its STAB Knock Off and STAB Earthquake, both greatly spammable moves, being only resisted by Mandibuzz, Heracross, Chesnaught, Hydreigon, Togekiss, and Hawlucha in OU, the only common Pokemon of the aforementioned Pokemon being Mandibuzz and Chesnaught, with Heracross and Togekiss being a little less common. Krookodile's Knock Off cripples any of the Pokemon aforementioned bar Heracross and Hawlucha, as the lack of Leftovers, or Life Orb, in Hydreigon's case, really sucks. Taunt + Knock Off also effectively breaks Stall, especially Chansey. Krookodile also has access to a variety of support moves such as Stealth Rock, Taunt, and Dragon Tail, while it can attempt to pull off an offensive set thanks to Moxie. Moxie Krookodile has fallen out of favor from last generation, but this by no means means it is bad, as with 252+, it hits 466 Speed, outspeeding all base 90 Scarfers and every Pokemon unboosted bar Deoxys-S. Krookodile can also provide Pursuit support, although it is outclassed in this regard by Tyranitar.

However, Krookodile has many crippling flaws that hold it back. Firstly, 92 Speed is a bit lacking for offensive sets and isn't too amazing for non-offensive sets. Next, its Special Defense is really bad, with only a stat of 70, leaving it vulnerable to many special onslaughts. It's typing also gives it many common weaknesses such as Fighting-, Water-, Ice-, Fairy-, and Bug-type moves, along with the not as common Grass-type. Krookodile also suffers from four moveslot symptom, wanting to have any of Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Taunt, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Pursuit, Stone Edge, and Fire Fang for Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Krookodile's Attack isn't too awesome without investment as well, which can leave it set up on Pokemon even with Taunt. Krookodile is also shut down by Taunt, although it runs Taunt itself, many faster Taunters can prevent it from setting Stealth Rock or using its own Taunt. Krookodile's main issue is the weaknesses it haves, which really hold it back. Finally, Krookodile is often outclassed by other Ground-types such as Landorus-T (its main competition) and Hippowdown defensively, and Excadrill and Landorus-I offensively. Overall, though, Krookodile is a very good Pokemon with a really good niche, but it somewhat struggles in the current metagame and is left outclassed often, for these reasons, I think it should move up to B- or B.


Gengar: A Rank -----> A+ Rank
Gengar is one of the best Pokemon in the OU metagame. It is very versatile, has three immunities, and looks badass as fuck. Gengar has two main sets: Utility Attacker and Destiny Bond. Let's first talk about the utility attacker set. This set focuses on Gengar playing mindgames with Substitute and truly breaking stall with Taunt, while also crippling many things with Will-O-Wisp. Shadow Ball is a very spammable solo-move as it is resisted by few types this generation and is just a great move in general. This set is easily Gengar's best and works so well in the current metagame. Next, Destiny Bond. Destiny Bond is a great set, being very powerful with Life Orb, and, thanks to Gengar's high base Speed, almost always guarantee one or two kills. Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave get great coverage, and combined with Focus Blast, give it flawless coverage and power. Gengar also has a lesser known set I'm fond of: TrickScarf. Choice Scarf Gengar outspeeds so much shit and can Trick it away to cripple a ton of things, while be a surprise Destiny Bond to prevent sweeps such as +1 Mega Charizard X and Choice Scarf Terrakion. Gengar has three great immunities: Ground-, Normal-, and Fighting-type immunities, while resisting Poison-, Bug-, Grass-, and Fairy-types, which can come very much in handy. Gengar is just so versatile, fast, and powerful, and has truly lived up to its being of being one of the very few Pokemon who's been OU for six generations in a row.

Now, Gengar's shortcomings. Gengar is, to put it bluntly, piss-poor bulky. It's about as bulky as paper when it comes down to it, having 60 HP, 60 Defense, and an ok 75 Special Defense. Gengar struggles to fit all the moves it wants into its moveset, and it also lacks recovery, which really sucks when in conjunction with Substitute. Gengar also hates Pursuit, a common move, and with the omnipresence of Bisharp, Gengar took a massive hit. Gengar doesn't take any priority, it simply cannot take any. Gengar's general weakness to all Dark-type moves also sucks, along with the weakness to Ghost-type moves. Gengar can't even switch in on many neutral hits as well, which makes it troubling. Finally, Gengar is left outspeed by many common Pokemon such as Greninja, Thundurus, and Noivern. Overall, though, Gengar is so versatile, strong, and a very potent threat in OU, and for these reasons I believe it should move up to A+.
 

Karxrida

Eventide
is a Community Contributor Alumnus

Krookodile: C+ Rank -----> B- / B Rank
Krookodile is a very underrated threat in the current OU metagame, and it is kind of hard to see why. Krookodile has a solid defensive stat spread of 95 / 80 / 70, with a high base 117 Attack stat, and backed by Intimidate, its physical bulk sky rockets. Krookodile's unique typing gives it resistances to Rock-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves, allowing it to be the perfect counter to Tyranitar, amongst other things. It also gives it an immunity to Electric- and Psychic-types, which can come in handy. The best drawing point of Krookodile is its STAB Knock Off and STAB Earthquake, both greatly spammable moves, being only resisted by Mandibuzz, Heracross, Chesnaught, Hydreigon, Togekiss, and Hawlucha in OU, the only common Pokemon of the aforementioned Pokemon being Mandibuzz and Chesnaught, with Heracross and Togekiss being a little less common. Krookodile's Knock Off cripples any of the Pokemon aforementioned bar Heracross and Hawlucha, as the lack of Leftovers, or Life Orb, in Hydreigon's case, really sucks. Taunt + Knock Off also effectively breaks Stall, especially Chansey. Krookodile also has access to a variety of support moves such as Stealth Rock, Taunt, and Dragon Tail, while it can attempt to pull off an offensive set thanks to Moxie. Moxie Krookodile has fallen out of favor from last generation, but this by no means means it is bad, as with 252+, it hits 466 Speed, outspeeding all base 90 Scarfers and every Pokemon unboosted bar Deoxys-S. Krookodile can also provide Pursuit support, although it is outclassed in this regard by Tyranitar.

However, Krookodile has many crippling flaws that hold it back. Firstly, 92 Speed is a bit lacking for offensive sets and isn't too amazing for non-offensive sets. Next, its Special Defense is really bad, with only a stat of 70, leaving it vulnerable to many special onslaughts. It's typing also gives it many common weaknesses such as Fighting-, Water-, Ice-, Fairy-, and Bug-type moves, along with the not as common Grass-type. Krookodile also suffers from four moveslot symptom, wanting to have any of Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Taunt, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Pursuit, Stone Edge, and Fire Fang for Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Krookodile's Attack isn't too awesome without investment as well, which can leave it set up on Pokemon even with Taunt. Krookodile is also shut down by Taunt, although it runs Taunt itself, many faster Taunters can prevent it from setting Stealth Rock or using its own Taunt. Krookodile's main issue is the weaknesses it haves, which really hold it back. Finally, Krookodile is often outclassed by other Ground-types such as Landorus-T (its main competition) and Hippowdown defensively, and Excadrill and Landorus-I offensively. Overall, though, Krookodile is a very good Pokemon with a really good niche, but it somewhat struggles in the current metagame and is left outclassed often, for these reasons, I think it should move up to B- or B.


Gengar: A Rank -----> A+ Rank
Gengar is one of the best Pokemon in the OU metagame. It is very versatile, has three immunities, and looks badass as fuck. Gengar has two main sets: Utility Attacker and Destiny Bond. Let's first talk about the utility attacker set. This set focuses on Gengar playing mindgames with Substitute and truly breaking stall with Taunt, while also crippling many things with Will-O-Wisp. Shadow Ball is a very spammable solo-move as it is resisted by few types this generation and is just a great move in general. This set is easily Gengar's best and works so well in the current metagame. Next, Destiny Bond. Destiny Bond is a great set, being very powerful with Life Orb, and, thanks to Gengar's high base Speed, almost always guarantee one or two kills. Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave get great coverage, and combined with Focus Blast, give it flawless coverage and power. Gengar also has a lesser known set I'm fond of: TrickScarf. Choice Scarf Gengar outspeeds so much shit and can Trick it away to cripple a ton of things, while be a surprise Destiny Bond to prevent sweeps such as +1 Mega Charizard X and Choice Scarf Terrakion. Gengar has three great immunities: Ground-, Normal-, and Fighting-type immunities, while resisting Poison-, Bug-, Grass-, and Fairy-types, which can come very much in handy. Gengar is just so versatile, fast, and powerful, and has truly lived up to its being of being one of the very few Pokemon who's been OU for six generations in a row.

Now, Gengar's shortcomings. Gengar is, to put it bluntly, piss-poor bulky. It's about as bulky as paper when it comes down to it, having 60 HP, 60 Defense, and an ok 75 Special Defense. Gengar struggles to fit all the moves it wants into its moveset, and it also lacks recovery, which really sucks when in conjunction with Substitute. Gengar also hates Pursuit, a common move, and with the omnipresence of Bisharp, Gengar took a massive hit. Gengar doesn't take any priority, it simply cannot take any. Gengar's general weakness to all Dark-type moves also sucks, along with the weakness to Ghost-type moves. Gengar can't even switch in on many neutral hits as well, which makes it troubling. Finally, Gengar is left outspeed by many common Pokemon such as Greninja, Thundurus, and Noivern. Overall, though, Gengar is so versatile, strong, and a very potent threat in OU, and for these reasons I believe it should move up to A+.
Seconding Gengar for A+. One thing you forgot to mention it that Gengar is an amazing Bisharp check; it can PP stall Sucker Punch with Substitute or Destiny Bond, force Bisharp to kill itself by suiciding with D-Bond (or get away unharmed with Destiny Bond + Focus Blast, as Bisharp cannot Sucker Punch the second turn because D-Bond is still active until Gengar acts again), or just straight up burn it.
 
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