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BW OU (Baton) Passport to Victory (Peaked #2)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Kidogo, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    462
    Hey smogon, kidogo here!

    OK, it’s been a while since my last RMT, and so much has happened since then. I've grown a ton as a battler and have definitely expanded a lot in terms of my playstyles (as in I’ve used a few non-rain teams over the last year xD), and I’ve become more involved in smogon as a site. However, it wasn't until recently that I really felt I had another team that was worthy of RMTing. I’ve recently become a bit of a stall fanatic, and after using it twice in a row in a team tournament, my teammates made me promise to use offense the next weeks, so I got cracking. After a lot of tries and revisions, I came up with this team. I think it’s a testament to its effectiveness that, despite my very limited time recently given school, it managed to get up to #2 on PS pretty quickly (http://i.imgur.com/MzjDwBH.png). Furthermore, the team features my absolute favorite new set: nastypass celebi. So I present to you: (Baton) Passport to victory!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    Show Hide

    PROCESS
    I knew I wanted to do rain. Toed is on of course, and I went with my habitual defensive toed. I knew that, no matter how offensively minded this team was going to be, I had to have some sort of defensive backbone. Right away I thought of celebi + jirachi—together, they resist everything but fire (which in the rain would be a non-issue), dark, ghost, and bug, and they both have solid defensive sets.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    OK, now it was time for the offensive bit. Remember the types I listed just above? Keldeo resists all of those except for ghost and is of course one of OU’s top rain abusers. I wasn't sure what set to go with, but figured that ebelt would work well since it’s close to uncounterable.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    OK, so this is a p solid, if standard rain core. This team was looking kinda weak to fighting, electric, and ground attacks, and I needed a revenge-killer. Meanwhile, I definitely needed a wallbreaker—ebelt keldeo was awesome, but I needed something that could boost. I decided to try out scarfchomp and double dance thundurus-t—they resisted the types I was weak to and fit the bill in terms of providing a set-upper and a revenge-killer.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    This worked ok…I didn't love it though. Garchomp was too weak, and thundurus too dependent on getting boosts, which I wasnt getting every game. Meanwhile, I felt like it played just too passively—this was supposed to be an offensive team! So I canned garchomp and switched thundurus to a LO agility set, making keldeo scarf to replace chomp. Meanwhile, I kept finding myself needing an extra moveslot on rachi and decided to take off SR. I changed toed to a specs set to provide more offensive pressure and to just generally smash stuff. Lastly, I added lead terrakion as an SR lead to compensate for my lack of SR.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    After playing with this a bit, I just kept hitting walls. The big problem was that keldeo and thundurus just didn't have the raw power to break through tough walls—additionally, I had no offense-boosting sweepers and ¾ of my heavy-hitters were specially oriented, meaning SpD celebi for example completely walled me. I also tended to get walled by random stuff if a single mon went down—jellicent, for example, was impossible to kill if thundurus was out of commission. I was also a bit unsure about celebi—I couldn’t figure out what to do with the extra moveslot (I had settled on recover, psychic, and baton pass). And that was when it hit me: if celebi could sweep using nasty plot and escape pursuit using baton pass, why couldn’t it pass those nasty plot boosts? I made that one modification and the team truly became what it is today.






    IN-DEPTH



    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt / Quick Attack
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Fairly standard, but definitely effective for this team. With focus sash and terrakion’s great speed it is close to guaranteed to get rocks up, and it often will get a kill as well. Moves are p self-explanatory, its purpose is mainly to get those rocks up, SE and CC are great attacking moves that let it do a ton of damage. Taunt stops other SRers (great for hippowdon—I send in terrakion vs something else, they switch into hippo while I SR, then taunt while they try to SR before going off to thundy or smth. Works every time xD) while quick attack is really cool for other sash leads (sashterra and sashmamo being a couple big ones). One perk of using this as my SRer is that I have no trouble with xatu/espeon, which makes sun a lot easier to deal with—if I lead with rachi, they’ll assume it has rocks and switch to their xatu, which I uturn out of and go straight to terra, forcing a switch…when I SR. Works perfectly if you play it right.


    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 40 HP/ 252 SpA / 216 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Yeah forget defensive toed, specs is where its at. This thing hits so hard it’s unbelievable. Hpump in rain 2hkos bulky resists, gets close to OHKOing even SpDrachi, and even has a shot at 2HKOing defensive blissey after rocks. Moves are obvious, hpump to kill stuff, ibeam gives cool coverage and does like 65% to SpDbi, p close to a KO after rocks with some prior damage. Fblast gets close to OHKOing ferro and OHKOs all ttar in sand. HP [grass] is nice for jelli switches and to OHKO most starmie. Pardon me if you’ve seen the word “OHKO” a lot in this descripition—that’s just what toed does. And I haven’t even mentioned what happens when this lil’ guy gets passed an NP boost or two…let’s just say, I've OHKOed chanseys. EVs max SpA, outspeed adamant max speed zor (fast CB, offensive SD), and the rest in HP.


    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 236 HP / 176 SpD / 96 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn

    Rachi does seem to keep popping up in my teams, and for good reason—it’s a great SpD wall and pivot. EVs maximize SpD bulk with enough speed to outrun jolly mamo and iron head it to death, which proves helpful a lot of the time. Wish is useful not just for rachi but to pass to other stuff, which uturn helps out with, as well as allowing me to escape zone (which is particularly important since rachi is my sole steel). I don’t even think bslam needs explanation, except that it’s here > thunder because I like paralyzing chomp, landy, and thundy, as well as hitting stuff like latios outside of rain. This set is definitely my favorite for rachi atm, I don't even see the need for protect when I’ve got both bslam and iron head—70%=100% anyway :P


    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    Okay, nothing new here, we’ve all seen this set. I replaced garchomp with this guy cause, with a scarf, I felt garchomp just didn't have enough power. Keldeo, on the other hand, is the most powerful member of the…well, most powerful except for toed…ok, well most powerful member of the team except for toed and thundy-t, but think of that as a testament to their power. This guy hits super hard and fast. Most of the time he’s my primary win condition, and the majority of my games are spent figuring out ho to take out that celebi, after which a +2 SpA keldeo usually spams surf and sweeps the opponent’s entire team. Not much else to say—I’ve tweaked the moveset a little, trying out Hp elec and bug (yah I hate SpDbi) but the classic has proven itself. Thanks to CTC for the support of HP ghost keldy, this is what I'm using now and it's really nice since with it literally nothing can wall keldy at +2.


    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-T @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Agility
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    First of all, let me just say that BPing +2 SpA to this guy is somewhere between winning the super bowl and orgasms on the ecstasy scale. Like…I dare you to name ANYTHING that wants to take a hit from that. Blissey? Gimme a break. Chansey? Thunder 2HKOs, if I don’t mind risking 30% miss to do 80% with fblast. SpD quagsire you say? Yeah right, but +0 fblast still has a 90% chance to 2HKO after rocks. Don’t think, just click thunder (with the occasional other move thrown in). The feeling of power is just org…ok nvm im gonna stop there.

    OK, but back on topic, this set does some really nice things for the team. Rotom-w is OHKOed (after rocks only if very SpD), Keldeo’s main counter, SpD jellicent, is of course OHKOed, max SpD celebi is 2HKOed after rocks most of the time, Tentacruel is OHKOed, amoonguss is 2HKOed, the list goes on. Synergy aside, this thing is a great tool vs stall with its sheer power and a great one vs offense if I get an agility. Thunder OHKOs about everything, hp ice hits the stuff that has the audacity to actually be immune to thunder (landy,other thundy, etc.), fblast OHKOs most ferro and all ttar, which is really useful since most sand teams have nothing to do with this guy except switch in ttar so I cant mindlessly spam thunder…bye bye ttar. Agility allows for end-game sweeps and is surprisingly easy to set up (scizor is one cool target, as is terra locked into CC. Then again, you OHKO them both which is more fun). Damn this guy is fun to use. Thanks to everyone who's suggested a bulkier spread/item, it now is a bulkier EV spread @ ebelt, which I'm finding is a cool compromise between power and survivability.


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 16 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass
    - Nasty Plot

    OK, some of you may have seen me post this set in the OU creative sets thread, but since this whole RMT was basically just an excuse to talk about this set to you guys, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. First of all, this guy is the second half of my basic defensive core along with jirachi—rachi takes on the special attackers like gengar and alakazam, and celebi shuts down stuff like breloom, terrakion, and even +2 luke. This thing is just so bulky—as an example I cited in the OU creative sets thread, CBnite outrage does something around 65% to this celebi, which is easily stallable with recover + leftovers. And like, this thing can take a uturn from standard landy-t (4x effective attack from base 145 atk n.n)—the new no attack version, for example, doesn't even guarantee a 2HKO on it lol. Recover ensures it can stick around, Baton Pass means the few physical attackers it can’t beat can’t make it stick around, psychic hits the stuff celebi needs to be hitting, way harder than giga drain, OHKOing all breloom, 2HKOing terrakion in sand, 2HKOing keldeo, OHKOing gengar switchins, OHKOing croak, and the list goes on. It also does way more to the dragons that celebi is used to check, like salamence, dnite, and chomper, than giga.

    Lastly but greatest beyond comparison, we have the one, the only, Nasty Plot. I said it in the creative sets thread and I’ll say it again here: I don't even have words to describe how awesome this set is. You have not known life until you have 6-0ed a team with a +6 SpA scarf keldeo simply spamming surf as the opponent’s resists are OHKOed (see replays below for numerous examples :D). First of all, it is just too cool how awesome the synergy between keldeo and celebi is. Celebi is weak to dark, fire, ice, and bug, all of which keldeo sets up on. Keldeo meanwhile is weak to psychic, electric, and grass; celebi takes those on. But even better than that, celebi lures in Pokémon such as scizor, ttar, weavile, skarm, and other u-turn users—exactly what keldeo loves to come in. For example, the opponent sends in bandtar while I nasty plot. I then BP to keldeo, who takes ~20 from the weak pursuit…and most likely is all set to sweep, or at the very least to destroy the opponent’s weather-setter. And it works in the opposite direction too: celebi is happy to set up on the stuff that hinders keldeo, like jellicent, other celebi, ferrothorn, amoonguss, and even stuff like breloom if spore has already been used (+2 bullet seed doesn't even 2HKO). This then forces them out while I get +2…and you know what happens after that. Furthermore, celebi doesn't even need to pass to sweep—seriously, a ton of teams will just flat-out get swept by +6 celebi because psychic is all the coverage I really need (again, see replays XD). And if I do want to pass but don't want to go to keldy for some reason (saving him for an end-game sweep usually), politoed and thundurus are perfectly happy to receive the boost instead, after which they will promptly OHKO everything. Oh yeah, one of the best things is that celebi can just happily NP up to +6 on the pink blobs, at which point psychic is doing 35%. Psychic once, then BP to keldeo on the softboiled and you have just won the game.





    THREATS
    Lack of a rapid spinner is my single biggest issue with this team—the team isn’t overly worried by hazards, but they do shorten thundy’s lifespan a lot, and tspikes in particular are just annoying. Opposing keldeo, particularly the specs version, are super annoying since, despite my 3 water resists, nothing on the team can switch in safely with rocks up. It would be cool if I could make celebi SpD, but the defensive version is just too valuable. Other than that, the team has been pretty solid for me.

    An export if anyone wants:
    Show Hide
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Thundurus-T @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Agility
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 236 HP / 176 SDef / 96 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 16 Spd / 4 SDef / 236 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass


    And a few replays showcasing just a fraction of the awesomeness that is nastypassbi:
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14218052
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14236374
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14237304
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14278722
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14283059
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14283555
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14316342
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14367825
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14386510



    Rate, comment, luvdisc! I'm open to some changes (celebi is NOT going :P), so give suggestions as well. Thanks for reading!
  2. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    It's hard to rate this team since it has almost no flaws to me. I tried it out on the ladder, and it worked perfectly. Maybe a slight weakness to Keldeo, as you noticed yourself, but it's really minor. If you want to test out something that may work or not, you can try to swap Celebi and Jirachi's roles (SpD Celebi and Defensive Jirachi, which actually works quite well in my opinion). Celebi would then become a perfect check to all non-HP Bug Keldeos out there, while Jirachi could still take Draco Meteors pretty well, continue passing Wish, and actually tank physical attacks your Celebi is not able to handle anymore. For example, Defensive Jirachi does not care about Scizor at all, while SpD usually takes more damage that I wanted to from it. It can even surprise some opponents since strong EQs fail to OHKO with defensive EVs (like Garchomp's for example), so you can try and get a paralysis or receive a Wish that was previously casted.

    Whether you decide to test that suggestion out, I'd like to say great team, you just gave me a reason to check the Creative Sets thread more often that I do.
  3. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    365
    solid team buddy ;]
    only threats i can see off the bat would be sun and sub kyuB, and mayyybe sand stall w the appropriate counters. seeing as band tar will do massive damage to the receiver w the appropriate move, and the only crunch switchin keldeo (assuming rak died setting up rocks) cannot do anything to jellicent, then the team really has a hard time breaking through sandstall because the only wallbreaker thundy is easily lo stalled by special celebi/amoong/lati/smart switching/ etc unless it receives a pass which is tough to accomplish due to frailty and lo. I would recommend testing the spread of 32 HP / 96 Def / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef / 112 Spd with leftovers. This is the double dance spread and appreciates the extra coverage of fblast, and worse comes worst guarentees survival of crunch and most of the time sand damage afterwards. this set can functions much more easily vs sun where the extra bulk and lack of lo recoil is greatly appreciated due to the speed and power of venu (nothing switches in barring jirachi). The loss of 30+ speed drops u below a few noticable threats such as mamo, kyub, luke, croak and a few others but 3/4 will use their priorities vs thunT which will be cushioned better with the new bulk, and kyuB is relatively safely switched into with rachi. i would bump rachi up to 290 speed because outspeeding all neutral kyub never hurt anyone seeing as rachi NEEDS to be able to at least break sub in a pinch or the latter will get 2 kills. Last but not least the bulk allows thunT to take a ThunT hp ice unless they'r modest lo, which at least remedies the thundt weakness slightly. And 266 speed means you outspeed standard venu.

    idk about keldeo mayyyybe something like hydro/surf, ss, icy wind, and hp ghost to at least not get completely walled by anything after the pass?

    in short:

    thundT spread: 32 HP / 96 Def / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef / 112 Spd @lefties
    bump rachi's speed to 290
    maybe hp ghost keld w icy wind

    grats on the team!
  4. Livio

    Livio

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    Hey Bro, really cool team, from the first moment that i met you in rank, i could note as it is effective, the strategy of pass Celebi then, it s very funny and works really good most of the times. The only problem that ruin this incredible team, as you above told, is the effective weakness to the entry hazards, because there s not a possible slot in your team that could be replaced in favor of a spinner, so your loved stall teams, are the thing that I never want to see against. The only suggestion that i can give you is to change the evs spread of your Politoed, it really doesn t need all that speed, and a bit bulk more never hurts and helps you to win the weather war (essential for Thundurus-T or Keldeo to close the game). I suggest an evs spread of 192HP/252Satk/64Spd Modest Nature. The investiment in Spd allows you to outspeed common CBTyranitar or Scizor, while the rest give you the Bulkyness you need, in fact things like SheerForce Landorus, with the rocks up, and after the boost of Rock Polish (it has setup on Celebi for example, or on Terrakion if doesn t run Taunt), could totally destroy your team. You also should consider to replace Perish Song instead of Hidden Power Grass, the reason is pretty simple, in this way you can "check" Bpass chain teams, you really don t need to hit Gastrodon or Starmie, since Hydro Pump should HOKO anyway the second with the rocks up (if isn t defensive one) and you can easily enter on Gastrodon with Celebi, gainig the setuppass to your Thundurus-T on the obvious switch-out of the opponent.

    Hope I helped ^ see ya.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 192 HP / 252 SAtk / 64 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]/ Perish Song
    - Focus Blast
  5. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    462
    Hey, thanks a ton for the comments and luvdiscs guys! :D
    Thanks a lot for the comments, you guys really got to the exact stuff I've been wondering about. I'll answer individually:
    Ganj: (open)
    Thanks I'm really happy with how this team's turned out. The celebi/rachi switch is one I've actually really wondered about, and I've tested it out a few times. What I found was that it really helped with taking special water attacks and made keldeo a total non-issue. However, it also made stuff like special kyurem(-b) a lot harder to deal with, and meant I couldn't check gyarados/garchomp at all. Toxicroak also becomes really annoying since defensive bi works as a check while SpD is OHKOed by +2 LO spunch, and even defensive rachi can't beat it nearly as readily as bi. This is totally something I've thought about though, it just seems like it probably opens more holes than it fixes.


    CTC: (open)
    Thanks man. Damn you guys are good, the biggest thing I've been trying to fix about the team throughout has been how hard it is to switch in thundy. It does help that I have two mons that can pass to it slowly, and that's one reason I choose not to speed creep with celebi at all. I've tried a couple mons as replacements for thunfy, including rain dnite and zapdos at times but...they just dont have that bone-crushing power or really nice synergy. Your EV spread seems really interesting, I might give that a try. I'm a tad hesitant about lefties since the power of LO is part of what makes the set so threatening, I miss a lot of 2HKOs and stuff without it (on SpDbi really crucially for example). This is definitely worth testing though, some extra bulk would be really cool. And lol, the last major change I've thought about is keldeo's set, almost solely to hit jelli. Getting walled by it is really annoying, you're right. What ended up happening mostly was that I began missing HP ice more than the extra water move--it kept missing KOs I needed, like 50% latios and stuff. I will definitely test this one out, but I'm afraid otherwise the best way to get around jelli is by attempting a sweep with celebi or BPing to thundy when you're sure it's safe. I'll definitely test this one out though. Other than that, rachi is a really nice check to kyub in general with the exception of band, which celebi takes on p well. Thundy-t is really threatening if it gets an agility up you're right, but fortunately it literally cannot set up on anything, bar toed/keldy locked into something. Rachi can also take a thunder OK and go for the bslam. Not very reliable though, I'll look into the alternate EV spread for thundy fsure.


    Uomo solo: (open)
    Thanks haha. Yep, lack of a rapid spinner is annoying, you're totally right. My best bet with those is usually to try and go for a sweep as soon as possible with one of my heavy-hitters (possibly assisted by bi) and then try to get off a NP and go for a sweep. Definitely a problem though, you're totally right. Hmm. I should have mentioned, the speed on toed is specifically to beat max speed adamant scizor. This has actually come in handy a TON of times--because I OHKO and resist BP, this is an awesome check for SDzor. I have considered more bulk (for example, guaranteed living CC from bandkion) but I've really found the speed and power worth it. Landy is a p big issue but even with this EV spread celebi can recover on HP ice's with no HP loss to stall LO down into psychic range, and as with thundy this guy can't set up on anything rly either (except maybe for terra--terra does tend to be used early-game mostly though, so this is less of an issue. Psong is a nice suggestion--I've also used encore and toxic in the pass--but hp grass is p cool to be able to hit jellicent really hard, and it OHKOs it at +2, which has come in handy a lot actually (never can have too many ways to get rid of that jelly :P). Terrakion is also as much of a godsend vs BP teams as it is vs sun--I SR on their ninjask's protect, then taunt its sub. Spam SE from then, and sash means I can jsut go for the 3hko on vappy or w/e. BP also has a hard time with a team spamming this many powerful attacks. A good option though if I find myself having trouble with BP.


    Thanks for the comments and the luvdiscs guys! Keep 'em coming!
  6. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,909
    so i'm wondering if your team could perhaps benefit from a pursuit scizor, because it seems to me that once latias, celebi, and jellicent are removed from the equation, +2 scarf keldeo will sweep almost any team. correct me if i'm wrong but that seems like cruel and unusual punishment to make your opponent deal with a +2 satk +1 speed keldeo in the rain. not entirely sure where you'd put said scizor but i was thinking remove terrakion, replace with cb scizor, then change jirachi's set to wish/rocks/thunder/uturn so you're still spreading para like a dick but you can generate momentum too. i guess my caffiene-induced 11pm thoughts don't matter much in the grand scheme of things but i'd still give sciz a try. you might like what you discover.

    westbest, luvdisc'd
  7. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,760
    I would definitely second the spread CTC listed on Thundurus. You may miss some 2hko's, but I doubt they are significant. Because you are using a bulkier spread you are able to take hits a bit better and the pokemon that can take Thundy's hits are those that don't really hit it back hard enough.

    Additionally, I would suggest not to switch the def/spdef of your celebi/rachi sets. If you decide to make rachi defensive then gengar, hp bug keldeo, and other pokemon are more open to set up and do more damage to oyour team.

    Overall, the team is really solid and fun to use. Keep it up!
  8. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    462
    @lavos you are totally right about that, scizor would actually work awesomely here. Like you said, it's hard to fit it on, but I'll think about mebbe > terra, I'm loathe to give up the slot on rachi though. Definitely worth testing though. Westbest man, thanks for the luvdisc :D

    @chimpakt you know, i think i will try out the thundy spread, though I really do wonder about missing the 2hko on bi after rocks, for example--since taking it out is so crucial for this team, i can use all the power i can get. Then again, if I try out lavos's scizor, celebi becomes a bit less of an issue, so this could have a lot of merit. And yeah, as I said to ganj, switching the sets feels like it might patch a few holes but it would open up more, so they'll stay as they are for now. Thanks for the rate!
  9. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    365
    the switch to zor reduces your sun switchin to solely toed, and despite the usefulness of good priority u lose a way to do anything to xatu sun. this not only magnifies the already pretty huge hole vs sun, but also doesnt remedy the cele/jelly problem because no jelly switches out of scizor, and cele usually bp if it's a defensive backbone of the opponents team. latis now 2hko u in rain but at least revenge trapping them is worth it. also u said u miss hp ice to kill latis at 50% but hp ghost is basically the same ;[
    celebi, barring psong, cannot do a thing to bulky thundT. eventually you will para w thunder or he will have lost enought health due to spex toed, terrak, uturn etc around mid game where you can 2hko, or you can alwasy safly pass to thunT because once again, celebi cant do a thing besides uturn/bp out or p song. Worst case scenario you will get a full para with thunder and beat it. The problem with lo is that since thunt is one of your 2 ways to deal with offense, and no spinner + possible sand + lo will put u in priority range immediately, in which case you are forced to make hard predictions which is not the way to use thundT. The motto is, spam thunder until everything dies/ is parad and win ;] it literally hits 2 hard for its own good and the only problems i legitly see are w/o lo are 1) spdef bslam rachi cz he has a chnace to live +2 thund after rox, and 2) to 2hko specially fat hippo. In the end i think wall breaker thunT definitely needs the bulk otherwise the bp'd np can get stalled for a few turns and go to vain.
    just my 2cents. GL!!
  10. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    Hi, cool team. This isn't a fully rate but just a suggestion of mine. As Lavos already said, your team could benefit from a Pursuit Scizor, however, I'm not sure Choice Band Scizor is the best choice for your team, if you decide to use Choice Band Scizor you'll have 3 Choice items on your team and you are just too weak to entry hazards. For this reason, I'll try out a Sword Dance Scizor with a moveset of Sword Dance, Bullet Punch, Superpower and Pursuit, it smashes Celebi, Jellicent and Latias after a Sword Dance (use it on the switch of course, many Jellicent stay in and get smashed for example, so yeah it works) and it's at the same another great late game sweeper and a good mon against stall teams in general, which are the kind of team where entry hazards are common. Great team again, luvdisc'd
  11. TeamEmpoleon

    TeamEmpoleon

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    Wow! This team is clearly amazing. I currently use it on the OU Ladder. Currently my W/L are 10-10 (10 won with this team and 10 lost with another team o.O).

    The main problem with this team is indeed the lack of a spinner, which is very annoying.
    Also, Toxic Stallers can be a problem, since there is no Heal Bell user.

    However, Politoed is just plain amazing. He deals about 40% damage to Ferrothorn with Hydro Pump.
    Once Rain is set up, Thundurus-T gets even better. He doesn`t need Agility most of the time, however it is useful.
    Terrakion is great and can deal with alot of Steel-types, which is really useful.
    Paraflinch Jirachi is great. I love to use him and to see my opponents rage :3,
    The combination of Celebi + Keldeo is also great, even though Keldeo is great even without the SpA boost.

    Luvdisc`d this thread because of pure awesomeness.
    My rating is a 9.5/10, because statuses being a problem.

    ~Meloetta<3V
  12. Viperthalion

    Viperthalion

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    Besides stalls, your team is EXTREMELY weak to one pokemon that has started appearing in OU more and more. This pokemon is Victini, which once it sets up trick room can take down your entire team with the exception of politoed who has to be at near 100% health. Once hazards are up and Victini has trick room set up, say good bye to your entire team.
  13. Vlisa

    Vlisa

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    Decided on Thundurus then eh? Awesome team kid, I was looking forward to the RMT on this, but not looking forward to seeing it even more on the ladder. Great team as always Kid!
  14. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Nah, the only Pokemon who can't take a hit from Victini are Keldeo and Politoed itself, which both have a slight chance to be OHKOed by Bolt Strike. Everything else on the team can take a hit.
    Show Hide
    252+ Atk Victini Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 164-194 (50.77 - 60.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 328-388 (85.41 - 101.04%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in rain: 320-380 (79.2 - 94.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Celebi in rain: 320-380 (80.2 - 95.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 282-334 (87.03 - 103.08%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Flame Plate Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T in rain: 214-253 (71.57 - 84.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Anyways, I love this team. I unashamedly stole the Celebi + Scarf Keldeo core and threw it on a Sand team, and I must say I'm loving it so far (having the only Pokemon who can actually take a hit removed is nice XD)
  15. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
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    462
    Thanks for the comments guys, you brought up a lot of good points.
    @CTC (open)
    you're totally right, I had forgotten about the sun issue there, despite mentioning it in the RMT. One option could be zor > rachi since they have similarish typing and wouldnt mess up synergy too much, but I think I'd miss the special wall. Oh well, I'll still look for a way to incorporate something like zor, but good catch CTC.

    And lol you're right about Hp ghost, im not sure what I was thinking. I still do think there could be issues (vs chomp for example: HP ice has an 80% chance to OHKO, while icy wind does 90% max. icy wind doesnt even guarantee KO vs dragonite after rocks). HP ghost would be really nice though...if I try that out, would you personally suggest surf or hpump? And yeah you guys have totally convinced me to try out bulky thundy, I'll let you know how it works in testing


    @alexander (open)
    Eh, I'm hesitant about SDzor, it's main role on the team would mostly be to remove keldeo's checks through use of pursuit. Like CTC said though, I'm really not sure how much help this would be since Scizor is really too slow to sweep in this meta, and celebi can BP away from pursuit while jelli outspeeds and burns. Scizor could be a nice option though, so I'll defintely look into it. Thanks for the suggestion, and for the luvdisc! :D


    @meloetta (open)
    Hey, thanks a lot! I'm glad the team has worked well for you :D
    Believe me, if I had a seventh spot it would go to a rapid spinner, with a heal bell user close behind. One thing that helps a bit with the status issue is that celebi is a really nice status absorber--for example, it is a perfect switch-in to breloom's spore since it can wall it even while asleep, while paralysis actually aids it in making slow passes to my other mons. Definitely still something to watch out though. Thanks for the rate and the luvdisc :)


    @viper (open)
    Hmm, I actually dont see the team as being weak to victini at all, as blacklight pointed out below. 4/6 members OHKO, it's weak to SR, and even if it does get a TR up not only can almost everything take a hit, but it's p easy to use the team's synergy to waste TR turns (especially since I dont have to worry about v-create killing everything since rain). Hazards are definitely annoying though, that's a good point.


    @vlisa (open)
    thanks a lot man, youve been right there for a lot of the making of this team lol. And yeah lol, thundy's spot was a toughie. ;)


    @blacklight (open)
    Thanks for the calcs haha, makes my task easier xD
    Yes! I'm glad you're using the core! And lol I actually keep wanting to try out a double-weather with toed / ttar / keldy / cele since ttar is the perfect mon to remove keldy's checks but it wants the rain to sweep. I'm glad you like the team!


    Thanks a ton for the input guys, I'm actually finding this really helpful to fix those last few holes I've been wrestling with. And of course thanks for the luvdiscs as well! :D
  16. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
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    Okay, updating the thread to note some changes I've made. Thanks to all the people who suggested the bulkier thundurus spread--I'm currently liking it a lot, although I'm still sticking with LO for the immediate power, the extra bulk is nice and I haven't missed the speed at all. And thanks CTC for the support on HP ghost keldy, I've made that switch and, while I've missed hp ice a few times, it's definitely worth the extra coverage. OP is updated to reflect these, thanks for everyone's comments thus far!
  17. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Thanks for sharing this team with us, Kidogo! It's surprising how much power Psychic has after a NP boost. This team is frighteningly similar to my first BW Team I made around BPass Celebi & Thundurus-I back in '11 so I can certainly appreciate some of the perks and challenges that this team face. Your team is a more refined version of the team I made back then, so props for that!

    Your team is solid as it is, but I think it will struggle against a well-built defensive team used by a competent player. Your team relies too much on Celebi's NP boost to break through walls, but what if the opponent packs a phazer in the form of mixed Hippo, Heatran, Skarmory, or even Latias? Granted most players would think twice about bringing in Hippo or Skarmory on a NP Celebi, but now that you've revealed the team, it's fair game. Not to mention this team taxes Celebi quite a bit, so Celebi may be hard-pressed to successfully pass NP boosts when its busy fending off dangerous threats. As it stands, CSpecs Politoed, Scarf Keldeo, and Agility LO Thundurus aren't that hard for a solid defensive team to wear out. Wish Jirachi helps immensely in keeping these offensive players (& Celebi) around, but hazards will eventually take its toll (plus Wish Passing to a sweeper is quite a risky maneuver).

    Basically all I'm saying is that you could use a plan B wallbreaker. As of now, you have 2 sweepers in Agility Thundurus-T and Scarf Keldeo. You might be better off losing Agility's sweeping capabilities for Nasty Plot on Thundurus-T. This way, Thundurus-T can start punching through the opponent's defense without Celebi's aid. I use a simple max SpA / max Spe @ Yache / Lum / Lefties set on Thundurus-T, and it gets the job done. Jirachi's Wish support would come in handy to offset Thundurus-T's SR weakenss and keeping it around long enough to break whatever walls that needs to be broken. Losing Agility is bummer and may not be worth the extra insurance against defensive teams, but it does allow Thundurus-T to perform its main role (setting the stage for Keldeo's sweep) a lot better.

    Alternatively, you can swap roles and make Keldeo CM + 3 Atks and Thundurus-T Agility. However, you lose your revenge-killer, so you may have to make further changes to your team (such as adding SR back onto Jirachi and making Terrakion's slot a Scarfer).

    You mentioned using Tyranitar on this team to trap Keldeo's counters. Actually, I've been experimenting with such a team already, and I confirm that it works. However, Celebi can still BP out of TTar, and the loss of Rain can be aggravating at times (because now you need to spend the extra turns to summon Rain again). You can try going this route, but I believe Nasty Plot > Agility on Thundurus is a simpler fix.

    [​IMG]Thundurus-T @ Yache / Lum / Lefties | Volt Absorb
    Timid | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Nasty Plot
    ~ Thunder
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ Hidden Power [Ice]


    This is more preferential, but you may want to try Calm Mind on Celebi instead of Nasty Plot. The immediate power boost of NP is indeed frightening. However, CM Celebi has certain perks. For one, it raises the uninvested Special Defense of your Celebi, so it can actually set up on special sweepers much more comfortably. I've seen your replays, and oftentimes you were setting up NP with a thread of Celebi's life due to all the special barrages coming Celebi's way. From personal experience, I've tried both NP and CM pass Celebi, and CM-passing was simply a lot less riskier, too, since it provides your BP recipient with some defensive buffering. The ability to get up to +2 / +4 in a heartbeat might be too good to pass up, though. Again, it's up to you.
  18. Usatoday

    Usatoday

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    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Hello Kidogo this is one of the best teams I've seen in a while, and utilizes a set I've been meaning to try. Now I haven't given a rate in months so here goes, firstly the team seems to hate the thought of a sunny day ninetales and sun in general so I'm going to recommend Dugtrio <= Terrakion. I feel like Dugtrio would help be able to remedy this problem as you could use it to trap ninetales and tyranitar who could change the weather upon you. This also seems to best replace Terrakion as you are using it as a suicide lead to get your stealth rocks up which can be essential to any team turning 2 Hit KOs into OHKOs. This will also give you a form of priority which is something that I believe every team needs to survive.

    I also feel that Jirachi is not very fitting on this team and I've seen some mentions of using a Scizor on your team. I second this suggestion for Scizor <= Jirachi. However unlike the other people here I am going to suggest a relic set that I discovered upon when browsing the gen four ubers section. It was a specially defensive trapping Scizor and it worked quite well in the standard metagame today being able to sponge hidden power fires much better, as well as trapping latios with pursuit after it sponges a draco meteor. It will also help maintain momentum for your team and be able to take on Kyurem Black which is something none of your team likes if it's packing Earth Power over Dragon Claw or Outrage. Scizor also has access to roost over wish which is a more reliable form of recovery for you to have than wish. However it will mean the loss of healing your teammates. Hope this helps below are the sets and some calcs show casing Scizors tanking ability.

    Sets
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    IVs 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Sucker Punch
    - Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 244 HP / 20 Atk / 76 Def / 168 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Roost
    - Pursuit


    Calcs For Scizor
    Show Hide
    252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 244HP/168SpDef Light Metal Scizor (+SpDef): 39% - 46% (134 - 158 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) in Rain vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 52% - 63% (180 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 104% - 123% (356 - 424 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Latias (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) in Rain vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 46% - 56% (160 - 192 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 18% chance to 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Magnezone (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) in Rain vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 40% - 49% (140 - 168 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Magnezone (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fire) in Rain vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 66% - 79% (228 - 272 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    0SpAtk Celebi (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) in Rain vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 26% - 32% (92 - 112 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Celebi (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Fire) in Rain vs 244HP/168SpDef Scizor (+SpDef): 47% - 57% (164 - 196 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 21% chance to 2HKO.

    216Atk Teravolt Kyurem Black (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 244HP/76Def Scizor (Neutral): 38% - 45% (133 - 157 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
  19. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Hey Kidogo,

    This is a pretty great team and like everyone else already said it has very few weaknesses. I'm going to mainly focus on your movesets in this rate as I think changing Pokemon would really ruin your synergy/effectiveness. So to start off, I would suggest running Toxic > Hidden Power Grass and Psychic > Focus Blast on Politoed. Now these are somewhat strange moves, but just hear me out. The main issue I have found with HP Grass is that a lot of the time Jellicents can just recover up on them and actually gain health vs it, kinda defeating its purpose. You also lack layers, meaning Jellicent isn't going to be taking too much residual damage. Now Toxic acts really similarly to HP Grass except that, in my opinion, it puts a lot more pressure on bulky waters like Jellicent as they now have a timer on them and are forced to play a lot more defensively throughout the match. Specs Hydro Pump also does a ton of damage to Starmie so losing HP Grass for him shouldn't be an issue. Now as you mentioned some forms of Keldeo look threatening, as do some forms of Toxicroak. Psychic is there to help with that. Psychic makes Politoed a fantastic Toxicroak lure, easily baiting the Water-Type move then swiftly OHKO'ing and is a pinch answer to Keldeo. The loss of Focus Blast shouldn't be much of an issue either as both Ferro/Tyranitar take a lot from specs Hydro Pump. Ferrothorn is also decent setup bait for the rest of your team and shouldn't be much of an issue. Finally I would suggest running either Lum Berry or Yache Berry on Thundurus-T. I understand how much you love the power of Life Orb Thundurus, but frankly I see it as ruining its sweeping potential. You lack a spinner meaning it will usually be coming in at 75%, and then needs to take 1-2 attacks (depending on if baton pass is faster or slower) to setup, leaving very few actual attacks with your Thundurus-T. Yache Berry serves as a nice pinch check to things like Landorus or opposing Thundurus-t (also look threatening), while Lum Berry lets him setup on a variety of threats. Anyways, cool team and gl man.
  20. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Messages:
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    OK, a lot of really good comments and suggestions here, thanks a ton guys! I'll respond in hide tags due to the length of the response (I need to work on conciseness :P):
    @pocket (open)
    Wow, you're right, they're very similar! I wonder what your team would have been like if keldy had been released then...probably even more similar lol.

    I actually haven't felt phazers were all that much of a problem--to start with, look at some of the most common ones: skarm, heatran, hippo, for example. These guys get smashed by everything on the team except for celebi and rachi--even if they do try to phase me, they have an 80% chance I get a free switch-in to something that most likely threatens an OHKO. Meanwhile, celebi can just smash them with +2 psychics, which, as you mentioned, hit surprisingly hard. Even something like skarm has trouble since, although it could stay in and BB, if it does that then I could just pass to thundurus and potentially sweep. Still, I have thought about changes with thundy--as I said, it is by far the most malleable member. The thing is, what can +0 LO thundy NOT 2HKO? basically only SpD ground types and the blobs...which of course celebi can already set up on. I think you're also underestimating the team's ability to prevent hazards getting up via terra's taunt and the constant offensive pressure. Still...NP is worth consideration on thundy for sure, but as you said I don't quite think it's worth giving up agility for.

    You're right, the ttar + toed + deo idea was mostly theorymonning that probably wouldnt quite work in practice. I'll think about NPthundy and quite possibly try it out, especially if I end up using a different item on thundy. Lastly, CM is a good option on bi as well but I definitely prefer NP personally since often the game will come down to getting enough SpA boosts and slow-passing to keldeo to clean sweep. Also, NP makes celebi a much more potent sweeper on its own, since often it literally is capable of just plowing through teams after snatching a quick +2. CM is definitely a cool option though. Thanks a lot for the rate man, some really solid suggestions here.


    @usatoday (open)
    Hmm, these are good suggestions. On duggy:
    You are right in that duggy would also serve the purpose of suicide lead and would help vs sun/sand by trapping the other inducers. However, There are a couple issues. Basically in exchange for he ability to trap tales and ttar, i sacrifice a ton of firepower, bulk, typing, offensive presence, and taunt. For example, while duggy does trap tales, it in fact makes me much weaker to xatu sun--terrakion, as I said, is a godsend vs this since it can both threaten xatu out and easily bluff another set, neither of which duggy can do at all. Secondly, taunt actually makes a huge difference--as discussed above, taunt is really helpful for keeping hazards off the field, and also lets terra shut down stall and BP early-game (in fact, I have won every single match I've played vs BP solely due to terra). So I think I probably will stick with terra, but a good suggestion for sure.

    Regarding scizor vs rachi: You know, this actually seems like a really cool idea. Pursuit, a stronger uturn, and a form of priority all sound very appealing. My major problem is that, even with heavy SpD investment, scizor just can't quite tank special attacks like rachi; 30 points lower in HP and 20 in SpD really do decrease survivability a lot (252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 236 HP / 176+ SpD Jirachi: 131-155 (32.75 - 38.75%) -- 5.37% chance to 3HKO vs 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 168 SpD Scizor: 169-200 (49.41 - 58.47%) -- 67.58% chance to 2HKO). I'm jsut not sure this is worth the trade-off. Additionally, while roost is more reliable than wish, rachi's paraflinching makes wish close to as good while still being able to pass to team mates, giving it the edge over scizor in my mind. Still a really good suggestion though and definitely worth testing, I'll let you know how I've found it. Thanks for the comments!


    @DU (open)
    Thanks man, some good suggestions here. On toed moveset, I'm leery to get rid of hp grass for a couple reasons: first, HP grass is most valuable in terms of hitting jelli and co in terms of its ability to conserve momentum; if I send out toed into a 30% ttar and I know they have jelli, it is super super helpful to be able to safely go for the hp grass so that, if tar stays in, i take it out, while if jelli comes in is is guaranteed to take enough damage that it is forced to recover. This is super important because of the synergy between keldeo and thundurus--if they choose to recover, thundy has a free switch-in and they actually have nothing that wants to switch in on that (or if they do, it's a fair bet celebi can set up on it for a game-ending sweep). And if they dont recover and either attack or double switch, keldeo becomes much more threatening, as I can now 2HKO with hp ghost (thanks CTC) if they try to switch in. This is actually incredibly consistent in how it plays out, although toxic is a cool move (I don't love it on specstoed though since not only do i have to switch out afterwards but the opp knows very clearly that i do. The second big reason for hp grass is, of course, celebi: when toed gets passed an NP, the opp is under an incredible amount of pressure since HP grass basically OHKOs jelli, and one prediction on my part can win me the game. So for now I'll probably like to keep hp grass, toxic is something to consider though, particularly if i find myself being walled by jelli. On psychic > blast: idk, i actually find croak very manageable, since celebi easily lives even a +2 adamant LO spunch and of course OHKOs--even if I've taken prior damage, I can play recover/spunch mindgames. Jirachi can also handle it somewhat well, since I outspeed and do a lot with ihead and can flinch, while i can wish to defeat spunch. Ibeam also hits for like 70%, so it's not like i cant touch it. Hp grass also hits deo almost as hard as psychic, and since psychic has a miniscule chance to OHKO, I think hp grass should be essentially as good for deo. Meanwhile fblast kinda deserves use even if almost solely for ferro, particularly if I get rid of LO on thundy. A quick way to kill ferro is always helpful, hpump does a lot but not enough to kill it before it leeches and protect-stalls/pwhips me. So I think for now I'll probably keep toed's moveset as is.

    Yeah, thundy definitely needs a change of set, you've convinced me. I'm tentatively thinking of trying out NP @ lefties, as I think without LO I will want a way to boost my power. If I go with this, do you have a good EV spread for this? (faster I assume, timid probably, but some bulk > power mebbe?) Thanks for the suggestions and the rate man, I really appreciate them.

    OK, so it looks like thundy's set is probably gonna be changed--does anyone have a good spread for NP @ lefties?

    Thanks a lot everyone for the rates (and as always, luvdiscs <3), you're really helping to fine-tune the team!
  21. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    Hey Kidogo, great team and grats on your success!
    Nasty Plot Celebi is a monster to begin with but with the utilization of Baton Pass to Thundurus/Keldeo it is a great support as well.
    I've been using that set for a while as well and I've honestly found it more effective to use Celebi on the more offensive side.

    Something along the lines of
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    Timid Nature
    4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    -Nasty Plot
    -Giga Drain
    -Psychic / Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Baton Pass

    It's honestly very effective using Baton Pass as a last ditch effort or mid game.
    However, this may just be preference.


    Also, if you're having trouble with hazards then I would suggest using Starmie over Keldeo but that really isn't the most beneficial change. It would alleviate hazards but it would just strengthen your weakness to Scizor, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn who is troublesome without Terrakion.

    So, I honestly can suggest too much without making heavy changes... so I'm sorry :<

    Once again great team my man!
  22. Hayden1996

    Hayden1996

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    @Kidogo As suggested earlier by Pocket, this is the standard "powerhouse" Thundurus set. Has some truly amazing wall breaking capabilities, further assisting Celebi.
    If you're still keen on running NP @Lefties...
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-T @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Nasty Plot
  23. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    Hayden, I think the problem with that set is that is can still easily be revenged. Agility serves its own purpose of cleaning late game even without Celebi. Plus Celebi has quite the bulk to actually get the Nasty Plot in, so I think that set would actually only work (better) had there not be aid from the BP Boost.
  24. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Wow. You can ask Electolyte (since I PM'ed him at the time, which was exactly a year ago, PM dates should confirm), but I had this exact team, but with Tornadus-I over Thundurus.

    I love the idea of NPBP Celebi so I'm glad that someone else is using it. I had used Substitute + Salac Berry Tornadus-I, and abused Prankster to get some gimmicky sweeps going but Thundurus-T is overall more solid. I also used CM Jirachi and had some weird EVs doing something, but I've long since retired so I forget what they were doing so XD!

    Try using Timid Politoed and hit 242 speeds, at least, I did so to outpace Adamant Brelooms.

    Also, use CTC's spread for ThundyT over the one on your RMT.

    KELDEO IS GODDAMN BROKEN WITH SCARF AND +2. That is all ~
  25. GOthee

    GOthee

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    I like your team.Specially that Cerebi Jirachi COre.

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