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Black and White Kyurem

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by shrang, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. -Sun

    -Sun

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    I never comment usually but I just wanna say that I'm pretty happy the title of strongest outrage no longer belongs to an NFE... I mean come on! With crap like rayquaza and zekrom running around in ubers it was still zweilous way down in NU that got the title?
    BTW if someone has already said this I will commit cyber-suicide....

    Modest specs kyurem-w does 41.2%-48.4% with dmeteor... meaning heatran cannot repeatedly switch in...
  2. Rater

    Rater

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    It can switch in twice to a modest specs draco meteor from a 170sp.att stat. Thats pretty good considering. Pair heatran up with chansey/blissey with wish support and heatran can switch in all day to draco meteor and fusion flare. Chansey is, however the best check to the specs set. I would say heatran best counters the mixed set.
  3. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Power Herb Freeze Shock Kyurem-B is actually decent.
    I was expecting an Outrage or Fusion Bolt, so I switched my Ferrothorn in, only to be swiftly KO'd by Freeze Shock (SR and 1 layer of Spikes were on the field though).
  4. Jerp

    Jerp

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    Wait.... a one time STAB Ice move is decent? That's actually pretty terrible, considering that Freeze Shock then becomes a wasted move slot afterwards.

    Anyways, I'm not sure if anybody else has said this, but for all the base 95 speed dragons, Rayquaza is the best. It can actually run a mixed set, and KO basically any wall in it's way. Honestly, these two dragons were a bit of a disappointment...
  5. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    ...not in the presence of Multiscale Lugia. That completely walls Rayquaza, whereas Kyurem-W at the very least destroys it effortlessly.
  6. TrollFreak

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    You know it only works if you keep hazards off the field right. +1 Outrage 2HKOs Lugia w/ Rocks, so it doesn't really wall Rayquaza
  7. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    Then keep hazards off the field. Why not do so when Multiscale Lugia walls almost the entire tier with Stealth Rock off the field?
  8. polop

    polop
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    Err perhaps focus could be reverted back to the Kyurem stuff?

    You DO make a funny point though, in my experience of seeing others use Kyurem, it appears that it either A, gets hit with Stealth Rock, reveals its choiced item, then gets forced to switch, and does that the whole match and ends up doing nothing, or B, dents something then gets promptly revenge killed. I think there was honestly too much hype about the Kyurem forms now..., anyone else find them a bit disappointing after testing them out?
    Just saying, but its near impossible to keep Rocks off the field. The spinblockers (gira-a / o, Arceus Ghost) will prevent spinning for almost all the match and most of the common SR users (dialga, ttar, groudon) are more then capable of muscling through Xatu and Espeon. Well unless Groudon's running support don set and Xatu has reflect. Also the idea of using a magic bounce poke with Kyurem is actually quite interesting, but what bothers me is the terrible synergy issues created with it. Psychic Flying and Dragon Ice, offer few valuable useful resistance when used in conjunction (barring Ground, and Kyurem's defenses aren't exactly high enough to stomach hits without tons of investment)... A spinner might work and it offers better synergy but considering how (un)reliable spinning is...
  9. nygerman

    nygerman

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    There are no good rapid spinners.


    Rayquaza still has the strongest Outrage since Zekrom Kyurem can't boost.




    Freeze Shock is Useless

    It's essential 70 Base Power with 95 accuracy since you have to waste two turns. No use considering ice beam already hits Lugi and Ferrothorn good. Freeze Shock is useless against walls.
  10. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Rayquaza does not have the strongest Outrage, when refering to "strongest", the word "unboostesd" is always implied.
    Freeze Shock isn't useless. Its applications have been accurately described in this topic. Very situational, but not useless. It's only a little less powerful than 2 Ice Punches.
    Kyurem-B's Ice Beam won't even scratch Ferrothorn.

    Even with hazards out, Kyurem can switch on most 90 base speed ubers in the tier and force you into choosing which pokemon you're going to lose. If it this happens, then it has done its purpose. Kyurem wasn't meant to sweep teams by itself, but if it manages to come in and the user isn't an idiot, something in your team is going down period.

    Excadrill works well as rapid spinner in ubers. It actually beats Giratina-O 1-on-1 with Shadow Claw. It also has good synergy with Lugia (and Kyurem to an extent, though they share a fighting weakness).
  11. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Off topic, but now that Mold Breaker is released, Excadrill can just nail Giratina-O with Earthquake since it does more damage considering STAB.

    Earthquake = 100*1.5 = 150
    Shadow Claw = 2* 70 = 140 :p
  12. JCM

    JCM

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    Anyone considered a Sub+Hone Claws set? With Roost, I can use it as a fairly annoying set-up sweeper, and usually knock off as many foes from the opponents team as turns outrage keeps going.

    Mono-Attacker:
    Kyurem-Z @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 52 HP/252 Atk/16 Def/188 Spe
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant

    -Substitute
    -Hone Claws
    -Roost/Fusion Bolt
    -Outrage

    I find this set surprisingly effective. Due to Kyurem-Z's tendency to force switches, it's surprisingly easy to set up a Sub in your opponents face. In my experience, a lot of foes tend to try to counter Kyurem-Z with status, so if you're lucky you can get another switch in there. From there, set up Hone Claws until you feel no longer safe (If the foe is faster than you and about to destroy your Sub, or they're slower and they have destroyed it) and maul them with Outrage. Roost works best in tandem with Lum Berry, but is still a great choice with Leftovers. However, Fusion Bolt is an option if you don't want to get confused, but should usually be used with Leftovers. 52 HP EVs allow Kyurem-Z to set up 101 HP Substitutes, while 252 Attack EVs maximize offensive potency. 188 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature allow you to outpace neutral-nature base 100s such as Adamant Choice Band Victini, but a bulkier spread of 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Def with an Adamant nature is an option for more power and bulk. The rest of the EVs are thrown into defense to maximize durability.
  13. nygerman

    nygerman

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    Black Kyurem Freeze Shock won't even scatch Ferrothorn



    Excadrill needs sand to win and Tyranitar is uncommon. The last thing Kyurem forms want is more residual damage. Excadrill will get destroyed with any of the Giratinas. Shadow Claw has like 70 BP. A neutral earthquake does more damage.
  14. Vincent

    Vincent

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    But in such case Excadrill can't outspeed Max Speed+ Giratina-O.
  15. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    CB Freeze Shock OHKOs Ferrothorn.
  16. shinywott

    shinywott

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    You may call me crazy but I have been thinking on using Iron head on the choice band set. It could run Outrage Fusion bolt Stone edge and iron head (Roost can help and all other moves outside of special are freeze shock and shadow claw). However going mixed isnt a bad idea too and Sub + Freeze shock could help him (Substituing SE and IH) since a one use item isnt what i would call attractive
  17. barry4ever

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    just wondering,exactly how many speed gira-o's have you seen lolb giratina cant afford to run anywhere near max speed. sorry for the terse post but im on my phone atm :/
  18. Dragon Rider

    Dragon Rider

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    You're not too crazy.Kyurem-B entire physical movepool with 70+ Power:

    Outrage
    Dragon Claw
    Fusion Bolt
    Freeze Shock
    Return
    Facade
    Shadow Claw
    Stone Edge
    Rock Slide
    Iron Head
    Zen Headbutt

    Most of those won't hit a valid target at all.Zen Headbutt,Return,and Facade are completely useless.Rock Slide and Stone Edge only seem to be good against Ho-Oh,Lugia,Skymin, and Reshiram but you already have Fusion Bolt for those. Shadow Claw hits nothing Fusion Bolt/Outrage wouldn't. Iron Head doesn't really add any coverage but you could use it on Scarf for some LULZY flinches.Keep in mind though there are a ton of Fire/Water pokes to resist Iron Head.

    I think I would run this for a Choice set:

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
    Jolly/Adamant Terravolt
    252 Atk/6 Sp.Def/252 Spe
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Freeze Shock

    I heard CB Freeze Shock can OHKO a Ferrothorn but I haven't checked myself.Ice Beam would probably be better but again I haven't checked an uninvested hit against most targets.Gliscor's screwed though which is always a good thing.

    Why doesn't this thing get Ice Punch,Dual Chop, or Superpower?All fit his theme and would help so much.
  19. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    252/88 Ferrothorn takes 96.87% damage minimum from CB Freeze Shock.
    Of course if it has Protect and your opponent predicts FS it can switch in on the charge turn and Protect the next.
    If Kyurem-B has already charged though nothing other than Cloyster and Heatran switches in safely, and even those won't like the 30% paralysis chance.
    Most player won't expect Freeze Shock so it's unlikely that they send something faster on the charge turn (such as Palkia or Grachomp). Arceus-Steel is still a problem though.

    Pairing Kyurem-B with Magnezone is a must in my opinion, since it gets rid of the annoying steel-types that do wall it. Those being Arceus-Steel (without Earthquake/Earth Power) and physically defensive Forretress.

    Specially defensive Forretress has a chance to be 2HKO'd by CB Outrage after SR and has a high chance to be 2HKO'd by CB Fusion Bolt even without hazards.

    Standard specs/scarf Magnezone is 2HKO'd by CB Outrage all the the time and scarf Flash Cannon has a chance not to OHKO Kyurem-B after it has taken SR damage (who uses ScarfZone in ubers anyways).
  20. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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  21. Shock_wave

    Shock_wave

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    Oh dear, they will go straight to Uber then if proven true.
  22. Quanyails

    Quanyails
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  23. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    Whether or not Turboblaze bypasses Thick Fat is irrelevant, as even if it didn't, the two moves he compared would both have had their power halved anyway. And the point was that even though Kyurem receives Same Type Attack Bonus for Ice Beam, but not Fusion Flare, the two moves dealt the same amount of damage.
  24. RBG

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    It would have bypassed Thick Fat for both moves.
  25. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    That's not exactly new to me, if to be honest. Turboblaze and Teravolt are just like Mold Breaker: they bypass abilities that hinder there attacks. This is why Shedinja does not counter Zekrom, and this is why Snorlax takes normal damage from Ice Beam and Fusion Flare. Here is the quote from Smogon's abilitydex about Turboblaze: "If this Pokemon attacks and the target's ability would prevent the effects of the attack from taking place, or hinder the effects of the move, the ability is temporarily nullified while the attack is in progress."

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