1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Black and White Kyurem

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by shrang, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,297
    Well, I tested with Reshiram and I can assure there's no additional STAB. So, either it's only for Kyurem, or Sun Sol got it right in their tests and this is a hoax.

    It would help if I could Pok├ęSav a Kyurem in my Black 2...
  2. infinitetown

    infinitetown

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    [​IMG]
    See dat 120 SpA on Black and 120 Atk on White? It's no lackluster stats and they can go mix, or even use a gimmick set to troll you. They has ice beam, draco meteor, outrage...and not mentioning hidden power. The only thing that prevents it from being a top tier threat is it's ice typing and mediocre 95 spe( hope dat GF will give'em dragon dance or a new special dragon dance)
  3. Deaga

    Deaga

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    421
    I've done some preliminary tests with my Black Kyurem (Level 70, 254 Attack Stat, Lax Nature, 0 EVs, you guys can work out the IV from that if it matters) against Caitlin's Musharna. Dragon Claw APPEARED to be stronger than Fusion Bolt, indicating that MAYBE Teravolt does not boost electric moves after all.

    However, I did some quite shitty testing, just looking at how much the HP bar went down, so we may need something more conclusive. Still, don't get your hopes too high, guys. :/ EDIT - Also, Dragon's Claw base power (120, counting STAB) and Fusion Bolt's (100 or 150 with the possible boost) are pretty close to each other, so maybe damage variation got in the way? I feel like Kyurem-W's Ice Beam vs Fusion Flare is the best way to test this, but unfortunately I only had access to Kyurem-B.
  4. Avatar Korra

    Avatar Korra

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    213
    Sorry if this question isn't appropriate for this thread.

    I'm planning to buy Black 2, since it's story is the one that succeeds Black. (The one I have).

    Since it seems White Kyurem is better, is it possible for me to have him in Black 2? Or am I forced to stick with Black Kyurem?

    Sorry I'm don't know the mechanics on how it's form changes.
  5. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,853

    You can have white kyurem in Black 2 and Black Kyurem in White 2, just get a Zekrom/Reshiram to fuse with in the respective game. Also, you cannot have both formes at once in the same game, the DNA Link only performs one fusion and will not perform another until you de-fuse the first. Which of course means you can't have multiple Black or White Kyurem, not legitimately at least.
  6. Deaga

    Deaga

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    421
    I just performed some actually good tests, going on double battles with Kyurem-B + Magnezone and Fusion Bolting Magnezone multiple times. The move always did damage in the 36 HP - 42 HP range, which is the expected damage using the following calculador:

    http://cherubi.com/tools/calculators/damage/

    With Attack=254, Defense=183, Level=70, with no STAB. (Or any boost for that matter) Thus, Teravolt DOES NOT boost Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt. What a shame. :(
  7. nygerman

    nygerman

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    157
    except that's Choice Band, you have to predict the switch and the ferrothorn has to stay and if you kill the ferrothorn, your opponent gets a free turn



    As for the Gamefaqs thing, it was already proven to be a hoax. The creator did not give any more specific details and someone tested it out and fusion flame did less damage
  8. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    229
    Except Ferrothron often times carries protect and, unlike Shadow Force, Freeze Shock doesn't bypass protect letting Ferrothorn switch in on the charge turn attempting to wall another attack, then protect on the attack turn.
  9. Cristhianmlr

    Cristhianmlr

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    B-Kyurem - Ice Punch and B-K - Superpower = Troll Freak.
    B - Dual Chop = It's body does'nt have any part that looks like an axe.

    Freeze Shock is HORRIBLE, it allows your opponent set up and protect, put paralysis, flinch, phaze it out or let it die by a monstruous SE STAB, common in Ubers.

    Ice Beam fits much better, even with no investiments, thanks to the STAB, 120 Sp. At. and some common 4x Ice weak PKMNs.

    Gliscor dies, Garchomp is nearly OHKO'd, Rayquaza is decimated, Groudon dies with one set of Spike, and is a 2HKO on many things, even a OHKO with SR/Spikes, it even puts a big dent on Lugia.
  10. ssbbm

    ssbbm

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,020
    ok ice beam sucks lol...... who would switch in gliscor / garchomp / groudon into kyurem-b when they all get 2hkoed by cb outrage? (at the least....)
  11. ace combat

    ace combat

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    I am testing out this current set:

    Kyurem-W @ Leftovers
    Modest/Timid
    56 HP / 236 SpA / 216 Spe
    -Substitute
    -Roost
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Fusion Flare

    This set can Wall Kyogre to a degree, as Ice Beam cannot freeze Kyurem, Chansey/Blissey can not beat it because he can stall out with Substitute/Roost (for once regular Kyurem is better at something), and it is still able to outspeed base 90s depending on the nature. Any thoughts?

    Edit: I forgot to mention, 56 HP gives it 405 Hp and therefore 101 substitutes.
  12. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,178
    I could see it working, but the only thing it really has over Reshiram is the boosted speed. Dragon Pulse will hit harder, but Reshiram's Fusion Flare is stronger so the two balance one another out.
  13. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    811
    Actually... You get pp stalled out when vs. Chansey since it tanks Fusion Flare like it tickles while Dragon Pulse makes it lol (in other words, it will tank moves till they have nothing left, which gives them the chance to TROLL! / let something else set up and sweep). Same with Blissey, except lefties let it tank hits even better, without pressure this set loses a lot of merit.

    Kyogre won't stay in unless its a Calm Mind Rest Talk variant, and in that case Kyurem would perfer to run for the hills instead. Specs Spout still 2HKOes so yeah :(. Also I hate the fact your not abusing that wonderful Ice STAB, I think Black Kyurem would perfer to do this more since he literally only has two usable moves. That SR weakness makes this set look appetizing though...
  14. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    I was thinking something like this set might work. Haven't tested it at all and its pretty much all theorymon but with Kyurem-W's nice bulk its a good way to take out scarfed dragons while neutralizing the SR weakness to a degree.

    Kyurem-W @ Haban Berry
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Ice Beam
    - Fusion Flare

    edit: also bluffs scarf etc
  15. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    440
    Great men think alike. I tried this out and it works. You can also use stone edge over roost if you want to eliminate Ho-Oh as soon as possible. Reshiram works in a similar way. It doesnt have an ice stab so it can opt to use stone edge over the ice beam slot. BTW use Draco Meteor instead.
  16. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    811
    All right fine it OHKOes with rocks happy? (82.72% - 97.53%) is the amount Specs Ogre does to the current set with a spout, and unless Dragon Pulse crits its facing a 2HKO if stealth Rocks aren't up. It doesn't even have to use Spout, Surf 2HKOes with rocks (49.63% - 58.52%) while still bearing a hefty chance to 2HKO without them (66%ish chane to 2HKO then), while Hydro Pump does the same except it has a chance of OHKOing with rocks (66.17% - 78.02%).

    This reminds me of habantina which worked effectively this gen while I was testing it, it looks like it'd be geared more to rain teams though to take out Palkia and Latias so I'm thinking Focus Blast > Fusion Flare, and agreeing Anikrahman on Draco Meteor > Dragon Pulse, Dragon Pulse is just too weak :(.
  17. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    yea good points on the set, it definitely needs the power.
  18. ace combat

    ace combat

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    It is probably important to remember the Kyurem OUTSPEEDS Kyogre so that it can roost BEFORE the second surf/spout hits. Also if you are including rock damage on your calc you should also include it on Kyogre because you would have to be a pretty bad player to allow them to set up rocks and then send Kyogre in with no damage and still not set up rocks yourself.
  19. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    811
    You completely ignored my Hydro Pump calculations then :(. Also a Water Spout with Stealth Rock damage still does more then a Hydro Pump (72.35% - 85.19%), that is the damage Kyruem-W takes assuming Kyogre has taken stealth rock damage.

    Also the roost arguement is just silly.

    Kyurem switches in, stealth rocks damage it, takes incoming Water Spout, doesn't OHKO (assuming EXTREMELY LOW roll here) -> Kyurem at 7% HP roosts, Water Spout does way more then 50% + 7% -> dead Kyurem.

    The same thing can be applied to Hydro Pump and Surfs that hit an average roll, except Surf will take a bit longer to wear down Kyurem-W down but in any case, its baiting a crit and chances are (higher then 50% chance) that Kyruem-W will be taking more damage then recovering if Kyogre uses Surf. If Kyogre's running Hydro Pump Kyurem will die as it roosts a second time if Hydro Pump hasn't already OHKOed it.
  20. Red Striker

    Red Striker

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    38
    You know, people keep complaining about the fact that Kyurem-B doesn't have a great Phys. Ice STAB move, yet did anyone think about a mixed variant of Kyurem-B? I've run the calcs., and so far, I like what I see with an EV set of 168 Att / 88 SAtt / 252 Spe. along with a Naive Nature while holding a Life Orb.

    88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Groudon: 90.59% - 106.93%
    43.75% chance to OHKO

    88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/80 SpDef Lugia: 53.37% - 62.74%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Arceus-Ground: 65.54% - 77.03%
    2 hits to KO

    88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory: 49.7% - 58.68%
    2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 176 HP/252 SpDef Excadrill: 42.96% - 50.37%
    3 hits to KO (with Leftovers) <-- Okay, that's still a problem


    88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Excadrill: 66.3% - 77.9%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)


    As you can see, a mixed Kyurem-B set might not be too bad. I've been trying it, and so far, so good.
  21. Lugiatina

    Lugiatina

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    634
    Exactly what I was thinking. Maybe a Naughty set with 4atk/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe might work as well. I would use Outrage/FusionBolt/Ice Beam/HP Fire or Focus Blast on that set. Black Kyurem's attack stat is so massive that it really does not need investment at all and you can EV it in it's lower offenses.
  22. FailAtGTA

    FailAtGTA

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2012
    Messages:
    79
    Im guessing we wont be able to use both Kyurem varients on one team. :/

    If I had to pick, I would defintately choose White Kyurem as it does more damage, according to a lot of people. Black Kyurem doesnt seem to have a good physical movepool, making most of its epic physical Attack stat go to waste due to having to have a mixed set to do any harm. Im sure Ill get destroyed by one in the future though.
  23. HybridHerp

    HybridHerp

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Life orb kyurem white combined with a tailwind user is a terrifying thing indeed
    I have yet to play with Kyurem black...but I am excited for a choice band set
  24. ssbbm

    ssbbm

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,020
    specs kyurem is probably the most powerful pokemon in the metagame atm, barring maybe kyogre. it guarantees a kill if you can get it in safely and the opposing team lacks a blissey.

    kyurem black pretty much sucks as much as a pokemon with 170 attack can suck. it's "ok", but kyurem-w completely outclasses it and all it can really do is lure in ferro and ohko with freeze shock (it can't even 2hko with sr+spikes and outrage). LO kyurem-b or lefties sub kyurem-b is probably better than cb kyurem-b just because it's so much harder to wall it (not to mention you can do cute things with sub freeze-shock) but it still really isn't that good because you still get hopelessly walled with stuff like steel arceus, and forry uses you as horrible set-up bait unless you use hidden power fire, which still isn't doing that much in the rain.
  25. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,227
    Adamant CB Outrage vs 252/0 Ferrothorn: 44.3%-52.3%. Pretty solid 2HKO with SR and Spikes, it seems, and still the case with Jolly.

    Mix Kyurem-B sounds interesting though as I am thinking about it. STAB Ice Beam lets it pummel through certain walls that other mixed attackers could only dream about. And instead of being revengeable by Kyogre, Kyurem-B can take it on pretty well, being able to Roost on it. Something about it seems off though...

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait:Teravolt
    EVs: 136 Atk / 248 SAtk / 124 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Ice Beam
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Roost / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire

    EVs: maxed out SA, gave enough Speed to outrun min Speed Lugia (figurative speed, decide on your own as to how much you want), and rest into Attack, with 4 points from SA moved in for the bonus point.

    Some calcs:

    Outrage:
    vs. 252/0 Arceus (neutral): 61.5%-72.5%
    vs. 0/252 Chansey: 72%-84%
    vs. 4/0 Mewtwo: 99%+
    vs. 252/0 Ferrothorn: 36%-43%
    vs. 252/0 Dialga: 67.6%-79.7%

    Ice Beam:
    vs. 252/0 Groudon: 100%+
    vs. 252/0 Lugia: 61%-72%
    vs. 252/252+ Ferrothorn: 35%-41% <- this could be an issue
    vs. 252/0 Arceus (super effective): 73%-86%
    vs. 252/252+ Arceus (super effective): 54.5%- 64.9%

    Fusion Bolt:
    vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 44%-52%. (Get SR and Spikes down for a 2hko. That or max out Attack - it will do 47%-55% which 2HKOes after Spikes + Leftovers).
    vs. 252/0 Forretress: 37.6%-43% (Solid 3HKO here, but do you really want a 3HKO?)
    vs. 252/0 Kyogre: 97%+
    vs. 248/0 Ho-Oh: 94%+ (max out attack to guarantee OHKO).

    Back to what I said about something off about Mix Kyurem-B. I don't know what it is - perhaps a 4 moveslot syndrome of some kind (Roost vs Focus Blast/HP Fire here). Or the 3HKOes on Ferro and Forry, or the Stealth Rock and Spikes weaknesses not meshing well with that (or the Life Orb). Or perhaps the fact that its most damaging move here is Outrage, which almost sounds like an incentive to just go back to CBing...I don't know. Then there's the EV spread which I feel like is ignoring his base 95 Speed but at the same time it doesnt seem that he will do a lot of damage without investment, even with 170 base attack. I'm still confused on this thing ;_;

    Or maybe I'm too tunneled on calcs.

    Maybe everything will work out in practice. Except it has been difficult to find a spot for Kyurem-B in a team...

    EDIT:

    Donkey's Kyurem-W set seems like it has a lot of potential in messing up rain teams that lack Chansey/Blissey/Steel Arceus (without Focus Blast). I do wonder, though, if going Modest and investing in Special Defense is a viable (though weird) option. Kyurem-W has so much SAtk that it might not even need to invest in Special Attack to deal tons of damage (413 without investment; it's higher than 252 SAtk Timid Mewtwo 9.9, and you could invest in SDef or something and absorb Palkia's Draco Meteor with plenty of life to live by. Maybe I'm insane because I just considered a 40 HP / 216 Speed / 252 SDef Modest Kyurem-W (which btw could live a Rayquaza Life Orb Draco Meteor after SR, with Haban, as well as surviving Scarf Palkia's DM after SR + Spikes).

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)