Black and White Kyurem

Mario With Lasers

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Well, I tested with Reshiram and I can assure there's no additional STAB. So, either it's only for Kyurem, or Sun Sol got it right in their tests and this is a hoax.

It would help if I could PokéSav a Kyurem in my Black 2...
 
hippowdon + ferrothorn can deal with black. Ttar/Rockceus maybe can deal with White. Then again, if you need two pokes to wall something it's very OP

See dat 120 SpA on Black and 120 Atk on White? It's no lackluster stats and they can go mix, or even use a gimmick set to troll you. They has ice beam, draco meteor, outrage...and not mentioning hidden power. The only thing that prevents it from being a top tier threat is it's ice typing and mediocre 95 spe( hope dat GF will give'em dragon dance or a new special dragon dance)
 
I've done some preliminary tests with my Black Kyurem (Level 70, 254 Attack Stat, Lax Nature, 0 EVs, you guys can work out the IV from that if it matters) against Caitlin's Musharna. Dragon Claw APPEARED to be stronger than Fusion Bolt, indicating that MAYBE Teravolt does not boost electric moves after all.

However, I did some quite shitty testing, just looking at how much the HP bar went down, so we may need something more conclusive. Still, don't get your hopes too high, guys. :/ EDIT - Also, Dragon's Claw base power (120, counting STAB) and Fusion Bolt's (100 or 150 with the possible boost) are pretty close to each other, so maybe damage variation got in the way? I feel like Kyurem-W's Ice Beam vs Fusion Flare is the best way to test this, but unfortunately I only had access to Kyurem-B.
 
Sorry if this question isn't appropriate for this thread.

I'm planning to buy Black 2, since it's story is the one that succeeds Black. (The one I have).

Since it seems White Kyurem is better, is it possible for me to have him in Black 2? Or am I forced to stick with Black Kyurem?

Sorry I'm don't know the mechanics on how it's form changes.
 

Nexus

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Sorry if this question isn't appropriate for this thread.

I'm planning to buy Black 2, since it's story is the one that succeeds Black. (The one I have).

Since it seems White Kyurem is better, is it possible for me to have him in Black 2? Or am I forced to stick with Black Kyurem?

Sorry I'm don't know the mechanics on how it's form changes.

You can have white kyurem in Black 2 and Black Kyurem in White 2, just get a Zekrom/Reshiram to fuse with in the respective game. Also, you cannot have both formes at once in the same game, the DNA Link only performs one fusion and will not perform another until you de-fuse the first. Which of course means you can't have multiple Black or White Kyurem, not legitimately at least.
 
I just performed some actually good tests, going on double battles with Kyurem-B + Magnezone and Fusion Bolting Magnezone multiple times. The move always did damage in the 36 HP - 42 HP range, which is the expected damage using the following calculador:

http://cherubi.com/tools/calculators/damage/

With Attack=254, Defense=183, Level=70, with no STAB. (Or any boost for that matter) Thus, Teravolt DOES NOT boost Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt. What a shame. :(
 
CB Freeze Shock OHKOs Ferrothorn.
except that's Choice Band, you have to predict the switch and the ferrothorn has to stay and if you kill the ferrothorn, your opponent gets a free turn



As for the Gamefaqs thing, it was already proven to be a hoax. The creator did not give any more specific details and someone tested it out and fusion flame did less damage
 
You mean just like when you kill something with a choiced attack that can be nullified by immunities like Earthquake and Close Combat? Doesn't look that bad then.
Except Ferrothron often times carries protect and, unlike Shadow Force, Freeze Shock doesn't bypass protect letting Ferrothorn switch in on the charge turn attempting to wall another attack, then protect on the attack turn.
 
I think I would run this for a Choice set:

Kyurem-B @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Jolly/Adamant Terravolt
252 Atk/6 Sp.Def/252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Freeze Shock

I heard CB Freeze Shock can OHKO a Ferrothorn but I haven't checked myself.Ice Beam would probably be better but again I haven't checked an uninvested hit against most targets.Gliscor's screwed though which is always a good thing.

Why doesn't this thing get Ice Punch,Dual Chop, or Superpower?All fit his theme and would help so much.
B-Kyurem - Ice Punch and B-K - Superpower = Troll Freak.
B - Dual Chop = It's body does'nt have any part that looks like an axe.

Freeze Shock is HORRIBLE, it allows your opponent set up and protect, put paralysis, flinch, phaze it out or let it die by a monstruous SE STAB, common in Ubers.

Ice Beam fits much better, even with no investiments, thanks to the STAB, 120 Sp. At. and some common 4x Ice weak PKMNs.

Gliscor dies, Garchomp is nearly OHKO'd, Rayquaza is decimated, Groudon dies with one set of Spike, and is a 2HKO on many things, even a OHKO with SR/Spikes, it even puts a big dent on Lugia.
 
ok ice beam sucks lol...... who would switch in gliscor / garchomp / groudon into kyurem-b when they all get 2hkoed by cb outrage? (at the least....)
 
I am testing out this current set:

Kyurem-W @ Leftovers
Modest/Timid
56 HP / 236 SpA / 216 Spe
-Substitute
-Roost
-Dragon Pulse
-Fusion Flare

This set can Wall Kyogre to a degree, as Ice Beam cannot freeze Kyurem, Chansey/Blissey can not beat it because he can stall out with Substitute/Roost (for once regular Kyurem is better at something), and it is still able to outspeed base 90s depending on the nature. Any thoughts?

Edit: I forgot to mention, 56 HP gives it 405 Hp and therefore 101 substitutes.
 
I could see it working, but the only thing it really has over Reshiram is the boosted speed. Dragon Pulse will hit harder, but Reshiram's Fusion Flare is stronger so the two balance one another out.
 

polop

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Kyurem-W @ Leftovers
Modest/Timid
56 HP / 236 SpA / 216 Spe
-Substitute
-Roost
-Dragon Pulse
-Fusion Flare

This set can Wall Kyogre to a degree, as Ice Beam cannot freeze Kyurem, Chansey/Blissey can not beat it because he can stall out with Substitute/Roost (for once regular Kyurem is better at something), and it is still able to outspend base 90s depending on the nature. Any thoughts?
Actually... You get pp stalled out when vs. Chansey since it tanks Fusion Flare like it tickles while Dragon Pulse makes it lol (in other words, it will tank moves till they have nothing left, which gives them the chance to TROLL! / let something else set up and sweep). Same with Blissey, except lefties let it tank hits even better, without pressure this set loses a lot of merit.

Kyogre won't stay in unless its a Calm Mind Rest Talk variant, and in that case Kyurem would perfer to run for the hills instead. Specs Spout still 2HKOes so yeah :(. Also I hate the fact your not abusing that wonderful Ice STAB, I think Black Kyurem would perfer to do this more since he literally only has two usable moves. That SR weakness makes this set look appetizing though...
 
I was thinking something like this set might work. Haven't tested it at all and its pretty much all theorymon but with Kyurem-W's nice bulk its a good way to take out scarfed dragons while neutralizing the SR weakness to a degree.

Kyurem-W @ Haban Berry
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare

edit: also bluffs scarf etc
 
I was thinking something like this set might work. Haven't tested it at all and its pretty much all theorymon but with Kyurem-W's nice bulk its a good way to take out scarfed dragons while neutralizing the SR weakness to a degree.

Kyurem-W @ Haban Berry
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare

edit: also bluffs scarf etc
Great men think alike. I tried this out and it works. You can also use stone edge over roost if you want to eliminate Ho-Oh as soon as possible. Reshiram works in a similar way. It doesnt have an ice stab so it can opt to use stone edge over the ice beam slot. BTW use Draco Meteor instead.
 

polop

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Specs Water Spout will never 2HKO Kyurem-W unless it crits. Every Kyurem-W set should run enough speed to outspeed base 90's, so you can hit Kyogre and weaken its Water Spout before it can KO you.
All right fine it OHKOes with rocks happy? (82.72% - 97.53%) is the amount Specs Ogre does to the current set with a spout, and unless Dragon Pulse crits its facing a 2HKO if stealth Rocks aren't up. It doesn't even have to use Spout, Surf 2HKOes with rocks (49.63% - 58.52%) while still bearing a hefty chance to 2HKO without them (66%ish chane to 2HKO then), while Hydro Pump does the same except it has a chance of OHKOing with rocks (66.17% - 78.02%).

Kyurem-W @ Haban Berry
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare

edit: also bluffs scarf etc
This reminds me of habantina which worked effectively this gen while I was testing it, it looks like it'd be geared more to rain teams though to take out Palkia and Latias so I'm thinking Focus Blast > Fusion Flare, and agreeing Anikrahman on Draco Meteor > Dragon Pulse, Dragon Pulse is just too weak :(.
 
All right fine it OHKOes with rocks happy? (82.72% - 97.53%) is the amount Specs Ogre does to the current set with a spout, and unless Dragon Pulse crits its facing a 2HKO if stealth Rocks aren't up. It doesn't even have to use Spout, Surf 2HKOes with rocks (49.63% - 58.52%) while still bearing a hefty chance to 2HKO without them (66%ish chane to 2HKO then), while Hydro Pump does the same except it has a chance of OHKOing with rocks (66.17% - 78.02%).



This reminds me of habantina which worked effectively this gen while I was testing it, it looks like it'd be geared more to rain teams though to take out Palkia and Latias so I'm thinking Focus Blast > Fusion Flare, and agreeing Anikrahman on Draco Meteor > Dragon Pulse, Dragon Pulse is just too weak :(.
yea good points on the set, it definitely needs the power.
 
It is probably important to remember the Kyurem OUTSPEEDS Kyogre so that it can roost BEFORE the second surf/spout hits. Also if you are including rock damage on your calc you should also include it on Kyogre because you would have to be a pretty bad player to allow them to set up rocks and then send Kyogre in with no damage and still not set up rocks yourself.
 

polop

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It is probably important to remember the Kyurem OUTSPEEDS Kyogre so that it can roost BEFORE the second surf/spout hits. Also if you are including rock damage on your calc you should also include it on Kyogre because you would have to be a pretty bad player to allow them to set up rocks and then send Kyogre in with no damage and still not set up rocks yourself.
You completely ignored my Hydro Pump calculations then :(. Also a Water Spout with Stealth Rock damage still does more then a Hydro Pump (72.35% - 85.19%), that is the damage Kyruem-W takes assuming Kyogre has taken stealth rock damage.

Also the roost arguement is just silly.

Kyurem switches in, stealth rocks damage it, takes incoming Water Spout, doesn't OHKO (assuming EXTREMELY LOW roll here) -> Kyurem at 7% HP roosts, Water Spout does way more then 50% + 7% -> dead Kyurem.

The same thing can be applied to Hydro Pump and Surfs that hit an average roll, except Surf will take a bit longer to wear down Kyurem-W down but in any case, its baiting a crit and chances are (higher then 50% chance) that Kyruem-W will be taking more damage then recovering if Kyogre uses Surf. If Kyogre's running Hydro Pump Kyurem will die as it roosts a second time if Hydro Pump hasn't already OHKOed it.
 
You know, people keep complaining about the fact that Kyurem-B doesn't have a great Phys. Ice STAB move, yet did anyone think about a mixed variant of Kyurem-B? I've run the calcs., and so far, I like what I see with an EV set of 168 Att / 88 SAtt / 252 Spe. along with a Naive Nature while holding a Life Orb.

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Groudon: 90.59% - 106.93%
43.75% chance to OHKO

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/80 SpDef Lugia: 53.37% - 62.74%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Arceus-Ground: 65.54% - 77.03%
2 hits to KO

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory: 49.7% - 58.68%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 176 HP/252 SpDef Excadrill: 42.96% - 50.37%
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers) <-- Okay, that's still a problem


88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Excadrill: 66.3% - 77.9%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)


As you can see, a mixed Kyurem-B set might not be too bad. I've been trying it, and so far, so good.
 
You know, people keep complaining about the fact that Kyurem-B doesn't have a great Phys. Ice STAB move, yet did anyone think about a mixed variant of Kyurem-B? I've run the calcs., and so far, I like what I see with an EV set of 168 Att / 88 SAtt / 252 Spe. along with a Naive Nature while holding a Life Orb.

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Groudon: 90.59% - 106.93%
43.75% chance to OHKO

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/80 SpDef Lugia: 53.37% - 62.74%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Arceus-Ground: 65.54% - 77.03%
2 hits to KO

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory: 49.7% - 58.68%
2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 176 HP/252 SpDef Excadrill: 42.96% - 50.37%
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers) <-- Okay, that's still a problem


88 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Excadrill: 66.3% - 77.9%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)


As you can see, a mixed Kyurem-B set might not be too bad. I've been trying it, and so far, so good.
Exactly what I was thinking. Maybe a Naughty set with 4atk/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe might work as well. I would use Outrage/FusionBolt/Ice Beam/HP Fire or Focus Blast on that set. Black Kyurem's attack stat is so massive that it really does not need investment at all and you can EV it in it's lower offenses.
 
Im guessing we wont be able to use both Kyurem varients on one team. :/

If I had to pick, I would defintately choose White Kyurem as it does more damage, according to a lot of people. Black Kyurem doesnt seem to have a good physical movepool, making most of its epic physical Attack stat go to waste due to having to have a mixed set to do any harm. Im sure Ill get destroyed by one in the future though.
 
Life orb kyurem white combined with a tailwind user is a terrifying thing indeed
I have yet to play with Kyurem black...but I am excited for a choice band set
 
specs kyurem is probably the most powerful pokemon in the metagame atm, barring maybe kyogre. it guarantees a kill if you can get it in safely and the opposing team lacks a blissey.

kyurem black pretty much sucks as much as a pokemon with 170 attack can suck. it's "ok", but kyurem-w completely outclasses it and all it can really do is lure in ferro and ohko with freeze shock (it can't even 2hko with sr+spikes and outrage). LO kyurem-b or lefties sub kyurem-b is probably better than cb kyurem-b just because it's so much harder to wall it (not to mention you can do cute things with sub freeze-shock) but it still really isn't that good because you still get hopelessly walled with stuff like steel arceus, and forry uses you as horrible set-up bait unless you use hidden power fire, which still isn't doing that much in the rain.
 

Jibaku

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but kyurem-w completely outclasses it and all it can really do is lure in ferro and ohko with freeze shock (it can't even 2hko with sr+spikes and outrage)
Adamant CB Outrage vs 252/0 Ferrothorn: 44.3%-52.3%. Pretty solid 2HKO with SR and Spikes, it seems, and still the case with Jolly.

Mix Kyurem-B sounds interesting though as I am thinking about it. STAB Ice Beam lets it pummel through certain walls that other mixed attackers could only dream about. And instead of being revengeable by Kyogre, Kyurem-B can take it on pretty well, being able to Roost on it. Something about it seems off though...

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait:Teravolt
EVs: 136 Atk / 248 SAtk / 124 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Ice Beam
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire

EVs: maxed out SA, gave enough Speed to outrun min Speed Lugia (figurative speed, decide on your own as to how much you want), and rest into Attack, with 4 points from SA moved in for the bonus point.

Some calcs:

Outrage:
vs. 252/0 Arceus (neutral): 61.5%-72.5%
vs. 0/252 Chansey: 72%-84%
vs. 4/0 Mewtwo: 99%+
vs. 252/0 Ferrothorn: 36%-43%
vs. 252/0 Dialga: 67.6%-79.7%

Ice Beam:
vs. 252/0 Groudon: 100%+
vs. 252/0 Lugia: 61%-72%
vs. 252/252+ Ferrothorn: 35%-41% <- this could be an issue
vs. 252/0 Arceus (super effective): 73%-86%
vs. 252/252+ Arceus (super effective): 54.5%- 64.9%

Fusion Bolt:
vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 44%-52%. (Get SR and Spikes down for a 2hko. That or max out Attack - it will do 47%-55% which 2HKOes after Spikes + Leftovers).
vs. 252/0 Forretress: 37.6%-43% (Solid 3HKO here, but do you really want a 3HKO?)
vs. 252/0 Kyogre: 97%+
vs. 248/0 Ho-Oh: 94%+ (max out attack to guarantee OHKO).

Back to what I said about something off about Mix Kyurem-B. I don't know what it is - perhaps a 4 moveslot syndrome of some kind (Roost vs Focus Blast/HP Fire here). Or the 3HKOes on Ferro and Forry, or the Stealth Rock and Spikes weaknesses not meshing well with that (or the Life Orb). Or perhaps the fact that its most damaging move here is Outrage, which almost sounds like an incentive to just go back to CBing...I don't know. Then there's the EV spread which I feel like is ignoring his base 95 Speed but at the same time it doesnt seem that he will do a lot of damage without investment, even with 170 base attack. I'm still confused on this thing ;_;

Or maybe I'm too tunneled on calcs.

Maybe everything will work out in practice. Except it has been difficult to find a spot for Kyurem-B in a team...

EDIT:

Donkey's Kyurem-W set seems like it has a lot of potential in messing up rain teams that lack Chansey/Blissey/Steel Arceus (without Focus Blast). I do wonder, though, if going Modest and investing in Special Defense is a viable (though weird) option. Kyurem-W has so much SAtk that it might not even need to invest in Special Attack to deal tons of damage (413 without investment; it's higher than 252 SAtk Timid Mewtwo 9.9, and you could invest in SDef or something and absorb Palkia's Draco Meteor with plenty of life to live by. Maybe I'm insane because I just considered a 40 HP / 216 Speed / 252 SDef Modest Kyurem-W (which btw could live a Rayquaza Life Orb Draco Meteor after SR, with Haban, as well as surviving Scarf Palkia's DM after SR + Spikes).
 

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