Black and White Kyurem

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by shrang, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Rater

    Rater

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    From what I've read, it seems that Kyreum W is harder to counter/check than Kyreum B I've been searching for checks to this beast and the best i've found so far is special defensive heatran. I've provided some calcs to prove this.

    Naive 252sp.att +lifeorb Draco meteor vs 252sp.def and 252hp, calm heatran= 32.38%-38.08%
    Modest 252sp.att +lifeorb Draco meteor vs 252sp.def and 252hp , calm heatran= 35.75%-41.97%

    Naive 4att +lifeorb Outrage vs 252sp.def and 252hp, calm heatran= 21.76%-25.65%



    Modest 252sp.att choice specs Draco meteor vs 252 sp.def and 252hp, calm heatran= 41.19%-48.45%
    Timid 252sp.att choice specs Draco meteor vs 252 sp.def and 252hp, calm heatran= 37.31%-44.3%

    As you can see heatran can tank the strongest move in Kyreum Ws movepool and can't even be koed after draco meteor+outrage. Of course heatran can't take earth power without air balloon and focus miss without chople berry. Most Kyreum Ws wont be running focus miss due to fusion flare taking out most steels so air balloon would probably be the most suitable item in this case. What is apparent is that heatran can definetly take on the specs set with good prediction. It can even fight back with dragon pulse or torment to screw up kyreum.

    4sp.att, calm dragon pulse vs 0sp.def and 4hp Kyreum= 45.92%-54.59%.

    What is even more astounding is that heatran can actually survive a draco meteor+earth power from the life orb set.

    252 (-2)sp.att, naive +life orb earth power vs 252sp.def and 252hp heatran= 62.18%-73.58%.
    Its a shaky risk to take but, providing minimum damage and at full health, a naive draco meteor+earth power cant ko heatran. I think this calculation alone should make heatran one of the few reliable checks to Kyreum W.
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    But, what if you are caught on the switch-in by Focus Blast? Neutral Life Orb Kyurem-W does 75% minimum. Fusion Flare also has 99.61% to 2HKO with Stealth Rock with the same Kyogre. Kyurem-W is definitely the new epitome of "oh crap" for me. Basically, a team that does not have Chansey is wrecked. Even Ho-oh is OHKOed after Stealth Rock!
  3. Rater

    Rater

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    252sp.att, naive +life orb fusion flare vs 252sp def and 252hp heatran = 34.2%-40.41%.
    This is no where near a 2 ko even with rocks up.
    Il admit that specs fusion flare can 2 ko with rocks up. You would need to predict a draco meteor which isnt hard if your switching from a poke that resists fusion flare.
    Chansey is destroyed by the mix set by the way lol
  4. Prophet

    Prophet

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    You seem to be forgetting that it has Focus Blast, which will more than do the trick unless you have bad luck with the accuracy.
  5. Rater

    Rater

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    Most mixed sets for kyreum W will consist of draco meteor/dragon pulse, outrage, fusion flare, earth power/focus blast. Earth power is extremely more favourable over focus blast due to better coverage. Most specs sets will consist of draco meteor, fusion flare, focus blast, earth power. Obviously your not going to bring in heatran if you suspect focus blast coming your way. So, what im saying is that heatran will be a good check to the most popular sets and will be blasted very rarely by a random focus miss which only has 70% accuracy as well.
  6. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    You need Ice Beam on the Specs set to deal with the Ice-weak pokemon the uber tier is full of (mainly Lugia and Groudon) more reliably.
    Being SR-weak Kyurem doesn't like having to switch out often, which you'll have to do if Lugia switches on Focus Blast, Earth Power or Fusion Flare in the rain.

    You shouldn't run both Earth Power and Focus Blast as they have redundant coverage and no STAB.
  7. Rater

    Rater

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    Oh yeah, well ice beam would go over focus blast meaning that heatran would basically have nothing to fear but fusion flare+stealth rocks from the specs set which can be mitigated by using protect to gain more leftovers recovery :)
  8. nygerman

    nygerman

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    Hopefully this would make Kyurem an ou instead of a uu with roost.


    Really, Kyurem doesn't compete too well in Ubers. Just another Rayquaza with no boosts. Essentially a scarf slave. There movepool is restricted to outrage, draco meteor, ice beam, and fire and electric. Although they are bulky and I see them overpowering no boost mixed attackers, in the end they're just Rayquaza's brother.

    White Kyurem is way too hyped just like Reshiram, but Sun teams lose in the end.
    Black Kyurem is Haxorus's long lost brother firing those powerful outrages.
  9. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    I forgot to mention sun. As for the mixed set, you're correct, I forgot Kyurem-W has 120 Attack. But I suppose a smart play with Chansey and a Physical Wall such as Skarmory can beat Mixed ones.


    And no, Ice Beam is not a must. Everything that's weak to it is wrecked by Draco Meteor, including the ones you have mentioned: Groudon and Lugia. Kyurem-W is such a monster, dear god.
  10. Rater

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    With sun up, just about nothing can switch into Kyreum! I guess that would be a big factor in checking it. There are probably many cores that can safely deal with kyreum W, and if it takes 2 pokemon to stop this demon then its clearly overpowered lol
  11. Furai

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    I suppose that once you discover the set, you should be fine. Specs are checked by Palkia and Steel-types, Mixed by Chansey and a Steel-type. Also, keeping Stealth Rock up is a key when facing these beasts; 25% each turn is not enjoyable at all, and with the Draco Meteor spam they are likely to switch out a lot.
  12. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    It is. A smart player will take advantage of Draco Meteor Sp.Atk drop and force Kyurem out. Ferrothorn in the rain can easily do that, but it's still 2HKO'd by Ice Beam after SR damage if I'm not mistaken. Same deal with Ferrothorn and Groudon.
    Ice Beam does more damage than 2 Draco Meteors over the course of 2 turns, has better SE coverage and 100% accuracy. Not running it on a Choice set is a crime.
  13. Pombo

    Pombo

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    95x2 = 190.
    140 + 70 = 210.

    Actually, thats wrong... Draco Meteor is stronger. Unless you meant it against Ferrothorn... Then even a single ice beam is stronger than Draco Meteor.

    I agree with you, though. Ice Beam is a must on Choice Sets. Wouldnt be bad even if you used it only for Ferrothorn.
  14. Rater

    Rater

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    em ice beam gets a stab boost making it 142.5 overall, x2 = 285.......
  15. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Except Draco meteor gets stab as well, making it 315...

    I do think ice beam should remain a staple on choice scarf and specs, however. On scarf, it provides kyurem the ability to revenge ice weak arcei and not getting walled by lugia. On specs, ice beam acts as both kyurem's sustained move and it provides similar, yet crucially different coverage. Unlike dragon pulse, it hits skarmory, Excadrill, and most importantly, ferrothorn neutral. Like dragon pulse, it is not resisted by much, making it a solid move to just throw out there.
  16. ZetoTarken

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    I have to agree with Jibaku, Ice Beam is a must on choiced sets. Its essentially the same thing as running Draco Meteor + Dragon Pulse on the other choiced dragons except Ice Beam is stronger than Dragon Pulse, hits a majority of steels for neutral damage(!!!), and has that random freeze chance at the cost of losing damage on a few pokes. Most of the pokes Ice Beam does less damage than Dragon Pulse on are only coming in as revenge killers anyway, Palkia takes 76% minimum from Timid Specs Ice Beam, more than enough to keep Palkia from directly switching into you.

    Now for something completely different: Modest versus Timid
    I'll start by saying the Scarf set needs to be Timid to outspeed the scarfed base 90s that's a given.
    For non-scarfed sets, Modest gives you more power while abusing the fact that most base 90 pokemon don't run max speed without a scarf, Reshiram being the only poke that seems to do so. Timid obviously lets you outspeed/speed tie other Kyurem and unboosted Rayquaza, but I don't think that outweighs the extra power from Modest. Timid 170 only gives 1 more SpAtk than Modest 150(Dialga/Reshiram) before and after applying Choice Specs. Essentially, you're trading Bulk, a SR resistance, and a better move pool for Speed, a better ability, and an SR Weakness in the case of Dialga. In the case of Reshiram, you're trading Fire STAB for Speed and better SE coverage. You can still outspeed everything important as Modest, but you also gain a bit of bulk and do noticeably more damage than Modest 150s.
  17. Varfor

    Varfor

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    If sandstorm is up, Arceus-Rock can deal with any type of White Kyurem quite well. If it runs a 252HP / 90 Sp.D / 168 Spd EV spread with a calm nature, it only takes 57.65 - 68.01% from Modest 252 Sp.A Choice Specs Kyurem's Focus Blast (52.25 - 61.71% from Timid). In return, it will always outspeed unscarfed Kyurem-W and deal 77.23 - 91.04% with Judgement, guaranteeing an OHKO if the White Kyurem takes Stealth Rock damage switching in. The only other set White Kyurem can run that has a guaranteed 2KO is a Modest Life Orb set, which it still outspeeds and has a 53% chance to OHKO even without Stealth Rock, due to Life Orb recoil and sandstorm damage (though relying on sandstorm damage allows the White Kyurem a chance to attack, which could be a problem if Arceus took damage switching in).

    Of course, this relies on sandstorm and Stealth Rock being up, but it would be a good way for Sandstorm teams to effectively deal with White Kyurem.
  18. WildShot

    WildShot

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    Hey, I have a few questions about these guys.
    1. Can you merge a Kyurem from Black or White with a Reshiram or Zekrom from Black or White?
    2. Can you merge any Kyurem with any Reshiram or Zekrom? (To simplify question #1)
    3. Can you merge Kyurem with a Reshiram from a different game in Black 2 or merge Kyurem with a Zekrom from a different game in White 2 (and so get Black or White Kyurem in a different version?

    In fact, coyld someone just explain the whole merging thing, please?
  19. Hydreigon

    Hydreigon

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    yes, yes, yes

    However you can't have more than 1 B/W Kyurem at a time
  20. puregenius

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    Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Substitute
    - Blizzard
    - Outrage
    - Hone Claws

    heres wat ive been using
    similar to sub claw zek the main difference is that groudon will not enjoy trying to stop this (not that any groudon ever switches in)
    it cant stop gyro ball ferro which can be problematic
    the other main problem is that its only physical move forces zekrom to lock itself in
  21. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Sorry, I meant it outdamages on things that are weak to ice but not Dragon (again, Groudon and Lugia). It also outdamages Draco Meteor on things that are neutral to ice but resistant to Dragon (Skarmory and Ferrothorn).

    Ice Beam is just a very safe and spammable move in ubers.
  22. MilfHunter

    MilfHunter

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    Um all heatran can do is take the draco meteor/dragon claw, have its balloon popped, and then proceed to be completely useless for the rest of the match. If kyruem isn't choiced, and puts up a sub on the switch then heatran is dead meat. What can heatran do offensivley to threaten the other team except some gimmicky crap. It'll just set up rocks and die. p
    Chansey can stop kyruem-W, at the very least it locks it into outrage and you can switch to a steel.
  23. Rater

    Rater

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    I never said that heatran could check the sub kyreum W set. It can, however continually switch into choiced draco meteors/ice beams. As of the life orb set, heatran requires wish support if kyreum is running earth power, which is where Blissey/chansey come in.
  24. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Blissey has a chance to be 2HKO'd by Specs Focus Blast. The chance is a lot higher with SR on the field.

    Eviolite Chansey avoids the 2HKO from Specs Focus Blast if it's running max Sp.Def, but without Def. investiment LO Outrage will flat out OHKO even without ATk. investiment.

    Because of this I think an Expert Belt set is perfectly viable on Kyurem-W.
    Specs and LO mixed sets have completely different counters, so faking a choice set with EB is a good way to score some surprise KO's Heatran and Chansey/Blissey.
  25. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    [​IMG]

    Hyourinmaru (Kyurem-W) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Focus Blast
    - Fusion Flare
    - Ice Beam

    This is... ultimate power. Being able to easily demolish Dialga, Kyogre, Groudon, Forretress and Tyranitar, which are all common leads, I can safely say that Choice Specs Kyurem-W is one of the greatest anti-leads in existence. Its ability to completely bypass Lugia's Multiscale with its Turboblaze-enhanced, Same Type Attack Bonus super effective Ice Beam is also absolutely amazing.

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