Pokémon Goodra [REVAMP]

[Hrothgar]

My team would absolutely love that set lol.

Dragon has an immunity now. It's really not a good idea.

 

[Quaily]

better off dropping sleep talk for aqua tail or earthquake. I also don't see the point of gooey since you're never going to outspeed anything and sap sipper gives you free attack boosts and switch ins to set up on.

 

[TaBuu]

A long deserved and long awaited revamp has been applied to the Goodra OP. Check it out and please provide feedback!

 

[Gary]

I DEFINITELY think that Earthquake should be slashed somewhere on the Assault Vest set. Being completely walled by Heatran absolutely blows, and the ability to smash one of the most prevalent special walls in the tier is something that I think is way too hard to passup on. I think the set should look something like this:

Assault Vest Tank
########
name: Assault Vest Tank
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt / Sludge Bomb
move 4: Earthquake / Dragon Tail
ability: Sap Sipper / Gooey
item: Assault Vest
nature: Quiet / Sassy
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

Dragon Tail does have its uses, such as keeping Goodra from being setup fodder for a few Pokemon and it's a really good phazer to have when paired with something like Skarmory or Deoxys-D to lay entry hazards. However, if you aren't using hazards, Earthquake is a much better option overall to smash Heatran before it attempts to hit you with a Toxic or just set up Stealth Rocks in your face. It's also got the advantage of hitting Tyranitar for at least solid damage, who basically walls Goodra to ever living hell otherwise.

So yeah, it definitely deserves a mention at least.

 

[TaBuu]

Earthquake is definitely more than viable on Goodra.
Just like Gary2346 stated, if you cannot break past Heatran or Tyranitar through team support, Earthquake should be your go-to option. But then again, Dragon Tail has its own merits too. Due to the numerous amounts of switches it can force on Special Attackers such as non-Dragon Pulse Mega Charizard Y, Keldeo, Rotom-Wash and so on, Dragon Tail allows residual damage to build up on Goodra's usual switch-ins(faster, physically offensive threats).

 

[adman2]

Sap Sipper is my favorite Goodra ability, especially in Doubles. It's always fun when people waste turns trying to Spore it. :)

 

[Cheatingtaco]

The only issue I see with Dragon tail is that it can't touch fairies. As such, it is not a reliable team shuffling move. Any bulky fairy can set up on that set without the forced switch.

 

[TaBuu]

The only issue I see with Dragon tail is that it can't touch fairies. As such, it is not a reliable team shuffling move. Any bulky fairy can set up on that set without the forced switch.

vs

​

• 252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 212 HP / 44 SpD Azumarill: 218-258 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO

vs

​

• 252+ SpA Goodra Fire Blast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 246-290 (89.7 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
  0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 120-142 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO

vs

​

• 252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 126-150 (33.7 - 40.2%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

--------
Fairy Type Pokemon aren't a justification for dropping Dragon Tail. Goodra has the coverage to hit them super effectively and thus prevents any effective sort of "set-up" from occurring.
Dragon Tail is a primary slash due to its great utility. Goodra forces many switches as mentioned before ; being able to tack on additional damage to switch-ins and possibly maintain momentum is great.

For example :
You switch Goodra in and decide to simply click Draco Meteor. The opponent switches out predicting that, and allows, say, Genesect to take the hit. Genesect proceeds to U-Turn out into Latios expecting a Fire Blast to follow up. The player is also aware that a -2 SpA Goodra is not a concern for Latios. By clicking Dragon Tail on the switch-in Latios takes over 50% damage and you have the chance of regaining offensive momentum depending on what is phased into battle.

I know this sounded really situational, but it's a very probable and realistic situation that highlights the benefits of keeping Dragon Tail.
Other moves are more "niche" and "situational" in nature (i.e - Earthquake) as they aim to eliminate a very specific Pokemon or two. It all boils down to what the team is capable of handling but besides that, Dragon Tail is a very solid primary slash to have in its Assault Vest set.

 

[adman2]

Dragon Tail also can't go through Substitutes, which is very annoying in Wifi matches because a lot of setup sweepers use Substitute. . .

 

[preserve]

I usually use a resto chesto set on goodra because everyone likes to either burn or toxic it.

 

[Mcdoodles]

I really need to make a Goodra but i just haven't found the time as of recent. If i did make him i would definitely run one of these

evs: 252 SpD / 252 SpA / 4 HP
nature: Quiet / Sassy
item: Assault Vest/ Lum Berry
ability: Gooey
move 1: Dragon Pulse
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Sludge Bomb/ Toxic

If running assault vest obviously you wouldn't want toxic on the set. However with how much people like to wittle it down with Toxic or burn, Lum berry can save from that at least once. I would only run Gooey because once he gets to a low health you can catch a fast physical sweeper with a speed drop. I haven't gotten to test either of these ingame or Pokemon Showdown, but in theory these sound pretty powerful to me

 

[ModelT]

So (pretaining to my post on the previous Page) I think I've decided on my Goodra.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Sap Sipper
nature: Quiet
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb / Thunder Bolt
- Dragon Tail

I like the Dragon Tail, and other mon's on my team have EQ for dealing with things that EQ likes to deal with. The slash is there depending on what I choose on the rest of my team. I'm glad I came here, thanks for the help. =)

EDIT-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With that being said, I noticed a particular set that I've run into that isn't mentioned anywhere.

Goodra @ Leftovers / Damp Rock
Hydration
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Dragon Pulse / Toxic
- Muddy Water
My EVs are arbitrary, catering to his longevity and Special Attack. The move set/ability lends itself to Rain teams, as well as being a pretty good stall. Toxic isn't a must, since it can say out and deal consistant damage all while staying alive.
Pros: Can absorb Status Effects with out consequence. Multiple uses of Rest without item loss. Counter weather.
Cons: Best/Only used on a rain oriented team. Bit of 5msss (Wants STAB, Rain move, and Toxic on top of Rain Dance and Rest).

 

[Adamlee]

I don't actually think weather teams will be poor due to the nerf of auto-weather abilities. I've seen a lot of people saying this, however, I remember in Gen IV UU Rain Dance teams were very prominent at one point, and Damp Rock was voted on as a result iirc. My point is, it was possible for rain to be very useful in a metagame with no Drizzle Pokemon at all, so I'm sure weather can still be viable this gen.

I currently run a Goodra in my Dragon Gym along with my team mainly consisting as a Rain Dance team and it does pretty amazing. I've used it in several different battles against opponents and most are intrigued that it has Hydration as its Ability. It definitely is a GREAT choice and Special Wall in any rain dance set. I use it along side to set up my entire team to sweep with either Swift Swim Kingdra or Infiltrator Noivern (Plus the boost Noivern's Hurricane gets is great). It's also a good set to run with my Cloud Nine Altaria who I can switch in with Mega Garchomp while using Sandstorm. Here is how my Goodra is trained:

Goodra @ Damp Rock
Ability: Hydration
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 6 Def
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse

Not the best coverage attack wise BUT I merely use it to set up my team and possibly KO an opponent or two if possible. Its defenses are great enough I can take a hit (even a Dragon Claw or Draco Meteor), Rain Dance, Rest, and usually get another hit or recoveries in- with a slower opponent. Goodra definitely isn't the best to use even as an attacker but it's very nice if you are ok with sacrificing it after a couple turns (Which is my use of it). I plan on rebreeding my dragon team for more coverage and Im really wanting to use a Gooey Goodra but Im having trouble figuring out the best usage of coverage attacks.

 

[Atlas-Sama]

I like hydration the most for goodra. I have him on my rain team.
Goodra@Life Orb
Hydration
Modest nature
252/0/0/252/4/0
Dragon Pulse
Thunder
Sludge Wave
Rest

 

[Adamlee]

I like hydration the most for goodra. I have him on my rain team.
Goodra@Life Orb
Hydration
Modest nature
252/0/0/252/4/0
Dragon Pulse
Thunder
Sludge Wave
Rest

That sounds like a very nice and sturdy set too for Goodra!

 

[Hrothgar]

Dragon Tail also can't go through Substitutes, which is very annoying in Wifi matches because a lot of setup sweepers use Substitute. . .

Sub is a bit irrelevant in regards to dragon tail. Goodra phases successfully if dragon tail can break the sub unless the opposing pokemon can OHKO Goodra after one turn of setup, in which case Goodra would have failed to phase the sweeper regardless of the presence of substitute.

I'm not defending dragon tail at all. I found it underwhelming and ended up removing it. I'm just wondering if there is an example you can give of a fairly common pokemon that fails to sweep past dragon tail goodra unless it has substitute.

 

[Atlas-Sama]

So had anyone used Goodra's acceptable physical attack stat? I mean it isn't as ifn he doesn't have the movepool to take advantage of it. His EV spread would be the same as his special set.
252/252/0/0/4/0
Adamant
Sap sipper/Hydration(obviously for rain and it helps because Goodra is status bait).
Dragon Tail
Aqua Tail
Earthquake
Rest/??
I put rest in the final spot in case of hydration.

 

[Adamlee]

So had anyone used Goodra's acceptable physical attack stat? I mean it isn't as ifn he doesn't have the movepool to take advantage of it. His EV spread would be the same as his special set.
252/252/0/0/4/0
Adamant
Sap sipper/Hydration(obviously for rain and it helps because Goodra is status bait).
Dragon Tail
Aqua Tail
Earthquake
Rest/??
I put rest in the final spot in case of hydration.

I tried one with Power Whip, Iron Tail, Earthquake, Outrage. I personally didnt care much for it. I feel like Hydration on a rain dance team is the best set to go. I used this set once with Gooey and another with Sap Sipper. It's def usable but bot my preference!

 

[Atlas-Sama]

Uxie is turning out to be great partner for goodra for the rain support. 8 turns off rain is just delicious for hydration goodra

 

[Ulevo]

I DEFINITELY think that Earthquake should be slashed somewhere on the Assault Vest set. Being completely walled by Heatran absolutely blows, and the ability to smash one of the most prevalent special walls in the tier is something that I think is way too hard to passup on. I think the set should look something like this:

Assault Vest Tank
########
name: Assault Vest Tank
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt / Sludge Bomb
move 4: Earthquake / Dragon Tail
ability: Sap Sipper / Gooey
item: Assault Vest
nature: Quiet / Sassy
evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

Dragon Tail does have its uses, such as keeping Goodra from being setup fodder for a few Pokemon and it's a really good phazer to have when paired with something like Skarmory or Deoxys-D to lay entry hazards. However, if you aren't using hazards, Earthquake is a much better option overall to smash Heatran before it attempts to hit you with a Toxic or just set up Stealth Rocks in your face. It's also got the advantage of hitting Tyranitar for at least solid damage, who basically walls Goodra to ever living hell otherwise.

So yeah, it definitely deserves a mention at least.

I'm fairly certain that theres virtually no need to use Sassy or Quiet over Calm or Modest since Earthquake has enough damage to do what it needs to do. I recall doing the cals a while ago and to my recollection if doesn't give you any significant KO's on any important targets.

 

[skies]

I'm fairly certain that theres virtually no need to use Sassy or Quiet over Calm or Modest since Earthquake has enough damage to do what it needs to do. I recall doing the cals a while ago and to my recollection if doesn't give you any significant KO's on any important targets.

0- Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 248-292 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 272-324 (70.4 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If your main goal is Heatran, then yeah, Modest is fine anyways imo.

 

[Porce]

Choice banded Goodra anyone? With very high base power moves and sap sipper I could see this set working:

Goodra w/choice band
252HP 252+Atk 4 def

Outrage
Power Whip
Earthquake
Iron Tail

Here are some calcs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 312-368 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 230-272 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 310-366 (80.7 - 95.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 84-100 (21.8 - 26%) -- 5.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 388-458 (98.4 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 138-164 (35.9 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 328-386 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra: 261-307 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latias: 416-492 (114.2 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 140-168 (36.4 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 337-397 (92.5 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 82-97 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 340-400 (111.8 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are just some. If you manage to pick up an attack boost off of anything from Megasaur, energy ball Manaphy, energy ball Galvantula, grass knot Greninja, Ferrothorn (who's 3HKOed by a +1 EQ mind for the record), energy ball Chandelure, bullet seed Megacross, Chesnaught, and more you can begin to seriously dent stuff. This Goodra wins against most special attackers due to his naturally superb special bulk, and though his physical bulk isn't sky high he can take hits well enough. I imagine this set could really take people off guard, especially stuff like Rotom with power whip, Heatran with earthquake, Clefable and Togekiss with Iron Tail, and special walls like Chansey and Blissey. However, this set suffers a bit of an accuracy issue.

 

[ryan]

252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 271-321 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 192-228 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 226-267 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 332-392 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

You're pretty much never going to get the +1 boost against Mega Venusaur, and Assault Vest Goodra can spam attacks against it and stall it out of Synthesis PP.

The standard Rotom-Wash is physically defensive, and most Mega Venusaur are as well.

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-2 252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 99-117 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(between the two, it is guaranteed, and Rotom-Wash can't touch you anyways outside of burning you, which special sets don't care about anyways)

So the only relevant KO that you miss out on with Goodra out of the ones you listed is the OHKO vs. Terrakion, which won't really be switching in anyways. Keep in mind that all of my calcs are from Assault Vest Goodra as well. You could be running Choice Specs if you want the extra power. Outside of luring a couple things, Choice Band Goodra is strictly inferior to special sets. You might be able to run some gimmicky physical set with Curse, but that's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't be outclassed by another Goodra set.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Tabuu it seems like your gif doesn't work in the OP. You should replace it with any of these:

 

[Porce]

252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 271-321 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 192-228 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 226-267 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 332-392 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

You're pretty much never going to get the +1 boost against Mega Venusaur, and Assault Vest Goodra can spam attacks against it and stall it out of Synthesis PP.

The standard Rotom-Wash is physically defensive, and most Mega Venusaur are as well.

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-2 252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 99-117 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 97.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(between the two, it is guaranteed, and Rotom-Wash can't touch you anyways outside of burning you, which special sets don't care about anyways)

So the only relevant KO that you miss out on with Goodra out of the ones you listed is the OHKO vs. Terrakion, which won't really be switching in anyways. Keep in mind that all of my calcs are from Assault Vest Goodra as well. You could be running Choice Specs if you want the extra power. Outside of luring a couple things, Choice Band Goodra is strictly inferior to special sets. You might be able to run some gimmicky physical set with Curse, but that's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't be outclassed by another Goodra set.

My bad about the Rotom, but still: 252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 254-300 (83.8 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not sure what any of these calcs show beyond choice band Goodra gets OHKOs that special Goodra can't. Even if you slap specs onto a special attacking Goodra, it fails to get the guaranteed OHKO on Togekiss, Politoed, Clefable, and Terrakion (and Latias without rocks). Some other stuff a banded Goodra can take on better than specs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 207-244 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 138-163 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 568-672 (147.1 - 174%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 107-126 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- 76.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 280-330 (79.7 - 94%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 214-253 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 532-627 (81.5 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 181-214 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- 80.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 306-362 (84.5 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 274-324 (75.6 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 424-500 (107.6 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 480-566 (118.8 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 217-256 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Goodra Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 720-848 (187.5 - 220.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 290-344 (75.5 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm not saying banded Goodra would be crazy good or anything, but it's straight up wrong to say there's no relevant KO you get over special variants when using it. I'm comparing this to specs too, which isn't particularly common.

Also, what do you mean you're never going to get the +1 against Megasaur? Switch into a leech seed or Giga Drain and voila. The other guy won't lean away from using his grass type moves since few people run sap sipper, and even fewer run it with threatening physical moves to take advantage of.