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Hail Team: Freeze Ya Ass Up [Peaked#1]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Emeral, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    [​IMG]

    Picture and redaction by Emeral. Correction by Eo ut Mortus.

    [​IMG] Introduction...

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hello guys and welcome on my RMT. Today I'm going to show you this hail team that I've used now for a very long time. It has been the more effective team I have used in BW. I built this team around Volcarona and Abomasnow because I've always wanted to have a competitive hail team in BW and because Volcarona is just horrible for most of the OUs. Hail is an amazing weather for players such as me who like playing differently and is a pretty good counter to sandstorm and offensive teams in general. This style of play is unfortunatly underrated, but it is very effective once you get the hang of it. People who frequent the Smogon University server have certainly already played against this team on the ladder, simply because I've spent so much time laddering. I've chosen to post a RMT of this team team because the worldcup of pokemon is finished and because I won't use this team in BW2. Well, I'm proud to present you this team, the team that let me reach #1 Place on smogon university and win the week 3 (BW #1) of the smogon tour XIII. NOW, IM GONNA FREEZE YA ASS UP !

    [​IMG] Team in details...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Frosty (Abomasnow) (F) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk / 156 SAtk / 100 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)

    • Hidden Power [Fire]: A great coverage move which is very useful against pokemon such as Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress because they often switch on Abomasnow. Fire coverage can also help against Magnezone if it switches in on Abomasnow.
    • Ice Shard : One of the most useful move of the team. It gives me a good priority to hit flying and dragon type pokemon (Dragonite, Landorus, Salamence, Tornadus...).
    • Protect : A move to help abuse passive damage from hail + toxic spikes. Is also a good surprise for scouting CB Scizor.
    • Wood Hammer : Powerful stab which can OHKO bulky tyranitar and do huge damage against bulky water like politoed, jellicent and Rotom-W. It also does decent neutral damage and has great coverage.

    Here is the most important pokemon of a hail team. Abomasnow, the weather inducer, allows me to set the hail when it enters the field. I needed a moveset that could establish good preasure against sandstorm/rain and was not weak to Tyranitar. I know there are many way to play Abomasnow, but the mixed set was just the set I needed for this team. Indeed, with his great coverage, Abomasnow can check the famous combination Rotom-W + Scizor on offense and Politoed + Ferrothorn on stall, be very annoying against sandstorm teams / offensive rain teams, and is the nemesis against Dragonzone teams. The only match-up that Abomasnow isn't able to wallbreak is sun teams, simply because Ninetales/Heatran wall it without Earthquake. Anyway, other pokemon like Latias will be able to switch on Ninetales and offensive Heatran, so that's not a problem. The Aboma's EV spread is homemade: max attack to do the most damage possible with Ice Shard (OHKO Dnite/Salamence) and Wood Hammer (OHKO Tyranitar), the 156EVs in special attack are here to always OHKO Forretress and Scizor after one protect (a.k.a 95% min dammage) and always 2 KO Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Magnezone. With the 100Evs in speed, Abomasnow outspeeds Scizor most of the time and Skarmory if it doesn't have many evs in speed.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Draco-Heart (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

    • Calm Mind: Allows Latias to be a good calm minder similar to Reuniclus. It can also be useful in late game to sweep teams which are weak to latias if the Tyranitar or Jirachi is KOed
    • Dragon Pulse: The main and more effective STAB. Base Power is naturally high and gives perfect coverage with Hidden Power Fire.
    • Hidden Power [Fire]: I needed HP fire because I have to beat pokemon which set up spikes and stealth rocks (2 weakness to SR) such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress and Jirachi. It's also here to OHKO Scizor after stealth rock.
    • Recover: Free recovery move, which is necessary to be able to stall as long as possible.

    Bulky Latias is just amazing. It has perfect synergy with abomasnow and gives the team a ground immunity. The calm minder version is very difficult to handle for most teams; when Tspikes are set, pokemon like gastrodon or bulky tyranitar won't be able to counter Latias. But the main reason of its place on the team is that I needed a pokemon who could check sun teams and Rotom-W. After much thought, Latias was the perfect pokemon for the job. Indeed, thanks to her good typing, this moveset can easily switch in against the offensive fire moves such as Fire Blast from Heatran/Ninetales and totally stop most of the Venusaur with Hidden Power Fire + sun. It's also a necessary water resist (Abomasnow does not have enough bulk to handle Waters) which allows me to switch on bulky Water pokemon like Spectoed/Starmie, set up Calm Mind against Rotom-W, and have a good set up sweeper that can easily clean a match in late game if I can set it up. I know the ev spread is not common but a great investment in defense lets latias switch in against Close Combat from BandTerrakion as well as take Crunch from Tyranitar and Uturn from Landorus. 20EVs speed are here to outspeed Dragonite.

    [​IMG]Extreme speed from Lucario SD +2 Atk : 45.5% - 54%
    [​IMG]Pursuit from Sassy Tyranitar : 45.8% - 54.6%
    [​IMG]U-turn from Expert Belt Landorus : 36.2% - 43.3%
    [​IMG]Bullet Punch from CB Zor: 32.9% - 39.2%
    [​IMG]Ice Shard from Mamoswine physical attacker: 34.8% - 41.4%
    [​IMG]Close Combat from Bander Terrakion: 32.6% - 38.7%
    [​IMG]Acrobatics from Flight Gem Gliscor: 49.1% - 58.2%
    [​IMG]Extreme Speed from CB Dragonite: 31.3% - 37.1%
    [​IMG]Outrage from Scarfmence: 84.3% - 100.2% | Dragon claw: 55.7% - 66.1%


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Lyuba (Mamoswine) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    • Earthquake: Main STAB with high base power. Great coverage with Ice Shard and does good damage.
    • Stealth Rock: Classic.
    • Ice Shard: Another priority move. It's very effective with endeavor if I've still not set the hail on field. It can also revenge kill Dnite, Landorus etc...
    • Endeavor: This move is the best way to wallbreak at the beginning of the match. It works pretty well with Focus Sash in combination with Ice Shard/Hail and is a nightmare if Snow Cloak is activated.

    In the third position we have Mamoswine, the perfect pokemon to start a battle in a BW hail team. Indeed, Mamoswine is a very interesting lead: it can set up SR at turn 1 with focus sash and reduce the opponent's health to 1 HP with endeavor. If Mamoswine has not been hurt at turn 1, I can start to sweep with Earthquake or simply switch in the appropriate pokemon to preserve Endeavor for later when the hail will be set. This lead is just a must have for a hail team because when the opponent see the match up, they most of the time choose to lead with Terrakion, and Mamoswine is just the better way to lure it and so eliminate at turn 1 one of the biggest threats of the team. But Mamoswine isn't only good as the lead; it's also an utility sweeper that is very dangerous for sun teams because they generally don't have a safe switch to Earthquake. It can beat Heatran, Celebi, Landorus, Gliscor, Tyranitar in sandstorm and is perfect to hurt Politoed and Ferrothorn on rain teams. It can revenge kill dragons like Dragonite or Salamence and finish a Gyarados or Breloom if their HP are low with Ice Shard. Obviously, I have to keep Mamoswine as long as the oponnent's spinner isn't KOed if I want to derive maximum benefit from stealth rock. To finish, I would like also to mention the ability Snow Cloak, which converts the mammoth into a haxx-machine and so makes him a very nice hail abuser.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Red (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    • Bullet Punch: A Scizor without Bullet Punch isn't a Scizor.
    • U-turn: Very nice with Stealth Rock. It scouts teams and causes huge damage.
    • Pursuit: With this move, the main pokemon that I want to kill is Jellicent if its HP is under 80% and Tspikes are set. It's also a good way to kill Starmie and Gengar if I find them too annoying in the match.
    • Superpower: Is here for its great coverage and to kill all the steel type, namely Ferrothorn, Heatran and Magnezone.

    Here is the trapper, scouter and revenge killer of the team. I needed at least one steel type pokemon to be able to switch in against dragon moves like Outrage or Draco Meteor mainly. I had the choice between Heatran, which I couldn't use because I've already included a fire type pokemon, and so I would be too weak against water types, Jirachi, or Scizor. I chose Scizor for the simple reason that it is a better hail user than Jirachi. Indeed, U-turn from Bandzor under hail works pretty well; with hail, Scizor's common counters, such as Skarmory and Gliscor, recover less and are worn down by U-turn much more quickly. The second reason why I chose Scizor instead of Jirachi is Terrakion, mainly the swords dancer, which completely fuck me if I don't have Bullet Punch for a priority move. In addition to that, Scizor is more effective against sun teams and can trap Starmie/Gengar/Latios, while Jirachi can only make them switch. I can also use Scizor as a dragon killer but that's not his main job; Abomasnow + Mamoswine is enough most of the time. EV spread is classic, I don't need innovation for a Cb Scizor, just the 56Evs in speed, which are here to be faster than most of the Tyranitar sets, bulky Politoed and Jellicent.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Poulpantine (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

    • Scald : It never burns.
    • Toxic Spikes : it helps me to win the weather war and limit switch-ins. It's best solution to kill Jellicent.
    • Knock Off : I know this move looks like a gimmick, but it's very useful not only against Politoed/Tyranitar, but also against other Tentacruel in rain stall, Heatran, Celebi, Starmie, Jirachi, Jellicent, Breloom, Chansey, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and I forget the others...
    • Rapid Spin : Blow away spikes and stealth rock. Necessary for the team.

    What is a hail team without a spinner ? I don't know but I won't test it. As a hail team can't work properly if stealth rock or spikes are on the field, I obviously needed a spinner to blow away those things and so set in place my strategy. I had a choice of 4 spinners: Starmie, Forretress, Tentacruel, Donphan. First of all, I was sure to not use Donphan and Forretress because they can't take most common Fire attacks. I had to chose beetwen Starmie and Tentacruel. I know Tentacruel is ugly, but it's a good spinner and a better choice for a hail team. Indeed, I have to spin as fast as possible, and Tentacruel is just the pokemon I need because it can switch directly against Forretress, Heatran, bulky Tyranitar, Ferrothorn (rain), and Skarmory and spin Stealth Rock. I know that's risky, but anyway, I don't care about Tentacruel if the SR are spun. Then, if Tentacruel is still alive, I can set my toxic spikes and win the weather war against sandstorm and rain teams. And finally, if I don't need to spin or lay any more Tspikes, I will also use Tentacruel to check Uturn from Scizor or Close Combat/Stone Edge from Terrakion. I could also knock off the leftovers from stallers like Tentacruel, Gastrodon or Jellicent to help Volcarona to finish the match. EV spread is classic and as I didn't need speed, I maximized defense and hp to be as bulky as possible.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Inferno (Volcarona) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    • Quiver Dance : after one boost, Volcarona is totally broken.
    • Bug Buzz : Volcarona's main STAB. It does good neutral damage and eliminates Tyranitar. Great coverage with Fiery Dance.
    • Fiery Dance : I prefer this move to Fire Blast because I always miss Fire Blast. The boost in special attack is good against Jellicent or gastrodon.
    • Hidden Power [Ground] : As Heatran and Terrakion can be annoying for this team, I have to carry HP ground to eliminate them.

    Last but not least we have Volcarona, the so-called star of the team. If the rest of the team has correctly done its job and eliminated Volcarona's counters, I can send the beast to set up one quiver dance and so sweep without any problem in all the metagame. How many safe counters to volcarona are there in OU ? 2, 3, 4, 5? I don't care, all that I see is that when Tspikes are set on the field and pokemon like dragonite or Salamence are down, Volcarona can sweep sandstorm, rain and mainly sun teams. The only way left to handle it is to have a faster choice scarf pokemon that could OHKO Volcarona at +1 speed. But unfortunately, getting Volcarona in place isn't an easy thing. Anyway, Volcarona can be a very good hail abuser in midgame even at +0. Its good typing causes many switch, it benefits from hail + Tspikes/Stealth Rock causing passive damage to the oponnent, whatever his team, and it has an effective combination of wallbreaking with Abomasnow. It's also a good asset to win to the weather war because its Fire type attracts most of the time Tyranitar/Politoed and make them suffer with Bug Buzz + Toxic Spikes. The evs spread is homemade but effective. The 252Evs in special attack are here to do the most of damage possible, 142 speed to outspeed all the pokemon that are around 260 like Dragonite, Rotom-w, Jirachi, Celebi and be faster at +2 than choice scarfers like Terrakion or Landorus. The Evs left go in HP for more bulk.

    [​IMG] Conclusion...

    I hope you enjoyed the RMT and took the time to read through everything to develop an understanding of the team. I encourage everyone give hail a chance because it's a wonderful and very under rated playstyle. You can use the team as you want and make all the changes that you want to try, I just ask you to keep the pokemons's nick if you want to use the team. Have a nice day !

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    Heatran @ Lifeorb Timid Nature
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs:252 S.Atk / 252 Spd / 4 S.Def
    Moves:
    Fireblast
    Earthpower
    MagmaStorm
    Hidden power [Ice]

    I don't see Anyone apart from your Volcarona doing something to this heatran and in return it can trap you in and go to an appropraite counter.
    Mamoswine is outspead with it's adamant nature.
    Make it Jolly and think of think of thickfat as an ability so it is a sure counter to heatran.This heatran is not going to be leading and after stealth rocks your mamoswine's focus sash is broken and so the endeavor ice shard combo will not work.
  3. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,425
    Hey man, cool team you have here. However, I do find a pretty big weakness. Opposing Volcarona can basically plow to your team after 1 Quiver Dance boost. It can easily set up on the likes of Abomasnow and Latias and proceed to destroy your team. Tentacruel can't even stop it with Scald because of Volcarona's fantastic Special Defense being boosted even further by Quiver Dance. Toxic Spikes will only be spun because no one uses Volcarona without Rapid Spin Support and Knock Off will only make it take hail damage by removing Leftovers. I suggest using a Choice Band Dragonite over your current Latias.

    Choice Band Dragonite (open)

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Choice Band
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
    Adamant Nature
    Moves:
    - Extremespeed
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake


    Dragonite can come in and check Volcarona with Extremespeed, taking it down after some residual damage. Dragonite still performs a similar role like Latias as it is able to help out against sun teams, who really just obliterate you. Dragonite's Multiscale ability also allows it take hits better than most Pokemon if you are able to blow rocks away. Another thing I would suggest is using Leftovers over Expert Belt on Abomasnow. The reason for this is because you will be normally switching Abomasnow into Rotom-W and it will get worn down from doing so as you have no recovery. Good luck and I hope I helped.
  4. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    @Jstan: I 've never met this heatran...

    @Shining Latios: Yeah I know volcarona is the biggest threat of the team. When I play against this pokemon, I have to keep Mamoswine@Focus Sash to handle it because anyway volcarona is played with a spinner. Dragonite could be a very good asset for the team (he is a past member) but I need latias's bulk to switch against fire type even if stealth rock are set, Rotom-W and have anything to send against Landorus. I was to weak to SR when I had dragonite.

    I need Expert belt to OHKO Dnite with Ice Shard, OHKO Tyranitar with wood hammer and OHKO Scizor with Hidden Power fire. I dont really need bulk on abomasnow because I have Tentacruel and Latias to check water type. Thanks for the rate ^_^
  5. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    You've never met Timid 252/252 speed/spa Heatran with 3 attacking moves and 1 filler move? That's extremely odd.
  6. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    388
    Thats a very nice team you have there. I really like hail, so probs for using it.

    Ive noticed one major weakness in Heatran, which you actually cant beat realibly.
    If it has Toxic, which a lot of Heatrans carry these days your only safe switch-in is Tentacruel, but with Hail up, it wont live that long, especially when it gets burned by Lava Plume. To fix that, I would suggest using Starmie over Tentacruel or Earthquake on Aboma to effectly lure in Heatran.
  7. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    Standard 3 attacks timid heatran carries stealth rock and air balloon so yeh... no one uses that set.

    PROTIP: when you make a superior and condescending comment when in fact you have no idea what you are talking about, you just end up looking like a twat.
  8. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    I'm pretty sure no good player building a team uses completely standard sets. They use those as a base for what will be the optimum for many conditions. But to suggest that a slight variation in a set is unheard of, or even less effective than standard, whether for Heatran or every single Pokemon out there, that's just not true. Thank you for taking issue with my comment, though, and being a dick about it.

    Edit: Sorry, I forgot my PROTIP. PROTIP: when you make a superior and condescending comment when in fact you have no idea what you are talking about, you just end up sounding dumb.
  9. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    I hope you don't mind me trying your team with few changes and i understand what you you meant by not seeing that heatran because it isn't the standard set it's just something i made and i replaced stealth rocks with magmastorm to trap predicted switch ins.Anyway nice teams.With a lot of rain to support techbreloom and the new tornadus T and thunderus T so use of heatran has significantly dropped and heatran isn't used much anymore atleast offensive ones aren't easy to find.
  10. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    @ Loghock: Indeed Earthquake could work very well but I don't really need to lure heatran. Volcarona can easily do it in middle game and it's a good occasion for Tentacruel to blow away the SR / Spikes. Then, if I can, I knock off his leftovers. I could try Starmie but heatran is most of the time played with Tyranitar scarf, so that's not the best solution to handle this problem.I would have problem to spin against ferrothorn and I would be private of toxic spikes (I need it for jellicent and the weather war). Anyway thanks for the rate, I hope you understand me :D

    @ Episode36: ok.

    @ Jstan: Hmm I understand what you to say. Don't forget that it's a BW1 team not BW2.
  11. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,933
    Hi Emeral,

    First of all, congratulations on the peak! It's not every day that a Hail team of all things gets #1 on ladder. This team is very solid as far as Hail goes, with only a couple issues. The first is Choice Band Terrakion, who can switch in and start spamming Stone Edge with impunity since you don't have a Rock-type resist on the team and every member is either OHKO'd or 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock (Tentacruel dies after 2 Stone Edges + Hail damage even from full HP). Second, Volcarona is a gigantic threat for this team, as it can get a Quiver Dance off on half your team and net an easy sweep from there. Tentacruel can't hope to hurt it even with a super-effective Scald, because after a QD or two Scald will be doing insignificant damage. However, there is a solution to both these problems. Instead of using your own Volcarona, change it to a Bulk Up Conkeldurr, which not only resists Rock-type attacks and checks Terrakion, but can take a +1 Fiery Dance or Flamethrower from max SpA Volcarona and OHKO in return with Stone Edge.

    252 +1 SpAtk Volcarona Fiery Dance vs 136 HP/120 SpDef Conkeldurr: 63.12% - 74.29%
    252 +1 SpAtk Volcarona Flamethrower vs 136 HP/120 SpDef Conkeldurr: 74.81% - 88.31%

    Conkeldurr (open)
    Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Stone Edge


    That's all I have for you. Again, nice team. Please consider the changes I suggested, and good luck in your future endeavors!
  12. Jstan

    Jstan

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    I think terrakion can be dealt with scizor very easily
  13. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
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    69
    @ lavos Spawn : hey, thanks for the rate and the very nice analysis. I know CB terrakion is one of the biggest threat of the team with volcarona. I have to wast stone edge with latias or hope for a miss to kill him. Scizor@bullet punch is the only great way to handle it, it's why conkeldurr could work pretty well. But if don't have volcarona, I lose an argument against sun teams and I get weak to sandstorm stalls with gliscor :x If I put conkeldurr, I have to take another pokemon to beat stall teams. Anyway, I think Mamoswine is the best way to lure Terrakion and Volcarona.
    Thank you again lavos Spawn for the rate, I considered all the changes you suggested ! ^_^
  14. PDC

    PDC payback
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,254
    Hey, cool team! Congrats on the peak and I really like how the team is built, especially with hail. My really only suggestion is something similar to the others, but instead of trying out Conkelldurr or Dragonite, I want you to test Scarf Terrakion over Volcarona. This checks Swords Dance Lucario, Volcarona, Tornadus - T, Dragonite, ( although you have that pretty well covered ) and a multitude of other set up threats. It resists Stealth Rock and can take a Stone Edge as well, while it also earns the boost in Sand.

    As some nitpicks, I would suggest trying Jolly on Mamoswine, although this is more of a preference. Finally, try Toxic on Tentacruel to prevent Volcarona from setting up as a last ditch move, as Toxic Spikes are not very effective in this metagame.

    Terrakion (open)

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Toxic
  15. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
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    69
    @PDC: Hey! First of all, thanks for the rate. I'm happy to see that you like. As mentionned earlier, if I put Terrakion instead of Volcarona, I would be a little weak to sandstall @ Gliscor and Heatran. I will also have trouble to kill skarmory and other physicall wall in general. Volcarona sets good preasure and is a better hail abuser, I won a lot of match due to this pokemon which is just horrible for most of the teams if Tspikes are set. I know terrakion could help for volcarona but that's a so common threat and I can stop it with Mamoswine and Focus Sash.
    I hope you understand me and thank you again for the rate, I take part of your advice. Have a nice day ! :D
  16. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    965
    Great team, props to you for getting to the top with hail.

    You are weak to Terrakion, and although it is rare, choices Tyranitar. One thing you could try is gliscor over mamoswine to take care of physical fighting type threats. Abomasnow can already ice shard annoying speedy threats. Gliscor gives you more leeway where latias, most of the threats you cite it as beating or taking hits well from are handled by gliscor. Personally I would use DD mence, but I'm an idiot.

    As for the gliscor set, you have lots of options although you probably want 220 speed for lucario (iirc). Something like Stealth Rock/Earthquake/Protect/U-Turn is what I would use, but do what you like. Note 244 HP allows for maximum poison heal recovery. GL, you got a Luvdisc.

    Toxic on tentacruel will hit volcarona, you could use it over knock off or toxic spikes
  17. Stallion

    Stallion I get so much action, my name should be a verb
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Razza, HeatTrap (aka Tobes' Heatran) is a hell of a lot more popular now. Dismissing it as a threat would be foolish!
  18. lacerta

    lacerta
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Although Episode36's criticism wasn't voiced in the best way, I'd have to agree with Stallion and others in that Heatran is a valid concern. Not only uncommon sets either - your team seems to lack reliable switch-ins to the common offensive and SpDef sets, in addition to the rarer variants. For example, Specstran(lol specs) has the potential to OHKO every one of your pokemon with the appropriate move, after SR & hail damage.

    Latias is certainly your best check, however it risks taking a Toxic from offensive or defensive Heatrans, and the latter will outright wall it and begin shuffling your pokemon into freshly-laid SR. Tentacruel is a poor check to offensive Heatran in hail, as it's outsped and easily 2HKOd. Even defensive variants have the potential to burn it, which with hail damage and no Wish or rain support will limit its life to just a few turns. Should Latias be weakened or Pursuit-trapped the situation becomes even more dire, and for a hail team a Heatran weakness is really treading on thin ice.

    The worst part is that you have no single pokemon capable of reliably RKing timid Air Balloon Heatran: Mamoswine is outsped and KOd, Tentacruel is 2HKOd, Volcarona cannot KO with Bug Buzz + HP Ground and is 2HKOd in return. Even Latias risks a crit or a Toxic if you try to set up, which is all that you can do - meaning that you will be forced to sacrifice two pokemon to the volcano god if it is well played.

    That final issue is easily fixed. By changing Mamoswine's nature to Jolly, you gain the ability to outspeed any non-scarfed Heatrans - to break the balloon and then Earthquake them, or to use EndeavorSash more reliably. It also provides you with extra insurance against things like late-game SD Lucario.

    The Heatran weakness in general - and to an extent the Terrakion weakness as mentioned earlier, can both be patched by changing Volcarona for a CM Keldeo. Keldeo outspeeds and KOs all Heatrans, as well as tying with Terrakion and resisting its more threatening (to your team) STAB. It also functions as a wonderful sweeper in the manner of your current Volcarona, removing similar threats and cleaning up equally effectively. It partners brilliantly with Latias, and appreciates Tentacruel's removal of Toxic Spikes (and the placement of your own).

    Keldeo-Resolution @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 52 HP / 200 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Taunt / Substitute

    The HP investment allows Keldeo to always avoid a 2HKO from CB Terrakion's Stone Edge, even after hail damage - should you lose a speed tie. The SDef EVs foil Genesect's Download ability, and I have recommended Hidden Power [Ice] as it may be necessary in order to remove Dragonite in lieu of a rain boost to Hydro Pump's power. Taunt or Substitute both allow you to easily beat Jellicent with Toxic Spikes down, while Leftovers negate hail damage.

    Edit: Just realised I didn't read properly. If you're looking for BW1-specific suggestions, a TR Reuniclus could fill a similar role. HP Fire Latias reliably removes or at least weakens scizor, giving Reuniclus an easier time.

    Anyway, congrats on your achievements so far and good luck!
  19. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,025
    Ahah nice team bro' !!!
    I can judge totally this team by its efficiency given that I even fought him to me several times against you, nothing on this point congratulations man!
  20. Magma

    Magma

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    43
    Hey Emeral, great team. The RMT presentation is equally as good - its very easy to read and navigate.

    As far as the rate goes, the first thing that jumps out to me is the lack of Hail abusers. The harsh weather actually seems to be doing more harm to your team than good. Ironically, your team looks like it works much better as a sun team with Sunny Day Ninetales > Abomasnow and Air Balloon Heatran > Mamoswine. So with that in mind, I'm going to recommend a couple of changes to make the team a little more Hail orientated.

    I'm not a fan of the Focus Sash + Endeavor Mamoswine this generation due to team previews, so I'm still going to suggest Air Balloon Heatran > Mamoswine. Heatran has much better defensive typing than Mamoswine, meaning it'll find way more opportunities to switch-in and set-up Stealth Rock throughout the match. You're also not losing much offensively, since Air Balloon Heatran fills Mamoswines role of tormenting opposing sun teams / DD Dragons. And finally, Heatran locks up the standard core of Abomasnow, Heatran, Scizor, Tentacruel/Starmie, Latias/Salamence/Gliscor found on all offensive hail teams.

    Next, I'm going to agree with Lavos, PDC, and Lacerta and suggest a replacement for Volcarona. The set seems strange. It looks like you tried to combine the EVs of the ChestoRest set with the moves of the Offensive Set and I'm not sure if HP Ground OHKOs Terrakion without Life Orb. Instead of me making this a cookie cutter Hail team and suggesting Kyurem in the final position, why don't you try out Choice Scarf Mienshao or Focus Sash Alakazam instead. Neither of these two are your typical Hail abusers, however, both of their abilities nullify Hail damage. Plus, they both fit the offensive nature of this team by hitting fairly hard and revenge killing numerous threats.

    Hope I was able to help. Good luck.
  21. H-C

    H-C

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    966
    Hey dude, really nice team you have here ! The presentation is really good too !

    By the way, have you ever consider Toxic instead of Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel ?This move helps a lot and with Knock off under the hail, opponent's pokemon will be really fast weaken and you can Toxic Volcarona which is really painfull for your team.

    I hope it will help you !
  22. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    Fisrt of all, thank you for the rate and I'm really content to see that you like the team. I totally agree with you, Im weak Terrakion to terrakion choice bander but Gliscore isn't a good way to handle it under hail. Poison heal recovers only 6,25% and stone edge from BandTerrakion + SR can easily decimate a Gliscor and more precisely the gliscor you suggested me which have a great investment in speed although I can lure easily terrakion in early game with Mamoswine and Focus (yeah, when the oponnent see the match, the most of the time lead with terrakion nd mamoswine the best way to lure it and eliminate at turn 1 the biggest threat of the team).
    Tyraniscarf isn't really a problem --> If pursuits Latias, I can send Volcaronca and set up quiver dance (all balanced stall teams with tyrascarf are to volcarona). Thx for the luvdisc ^_^.

    Hey lacerta, thanks for the rate and the very great analysis. I more ore less agree with what you have just sayed, but I would also like to precise that most of the heatran, even with air ballon, are played modest or with a little of bulk and not timid. I've never played against a choice spec Heatran, and Heatrap isn't played max speed too. The only time I met a Heatran max speed was against Idiotfrommars in a smogon tour and it didn't cause me major problems for the simple reason that they are most here the time here to set stealth rock. I can so use endeavor at turn 2 if I predict the fire blast or switch on Tentacruel if it hurt me at turn 1. Tentacruel isn't 2KO by Earth Power if heatran has not modest nature so I can spinn the SR or simply use scald to finish it. So yeah, max speed heatran can be dangerous but that's not a common threat. Switching Mamoswine to jolly could be an alternative to handle this problem but I've never really needed a jolly nature on mamoswine....

    To finish, I can't use Keldeo for the simple reason that the team was built in BW1. Thank you again for the rate, I really appreciate your analysis and I'm glad to see that people take time to comment my team ^_^

    Haha thank you my friend ! :D

    Hey Magma, thanks for the rate and for your analysis. I don't really think that I could substitute Mamoswine for the simple reason that it is the best way to lure terrakion in early game with focus sash, the best hail abuser ever with snow cloak + endeavor and is a very good way to kill volcarona. I can ensure you that facous sash mamoswine works pretty well even with the wifi clause and as I don't really need another fire type, I think mamoswine as stealth rocker is the best way to star the battle in this team.

    Then, I don't really agree with mienshao over volcarona which could give problems to wallbreak stall teams but Alakzam could be a nice choice. It's faster than terrakion and it's a good wallbreaker. The only problem is that I would have trouble against bullet punch from scizor. Volcarona is my main counter to scizor if Tentacruel is down, and if I don't have volcarona too, a scizor swords dancer will finish my team without any problem. Volcarona also helps to handle Heatran and Tyranitar although Alakzam isn't safe with the focus blast miss.

    Well, I really apreciate your rate and thank you again for your analysis ! ^_^

    Yes why not, It could work pretty well. But Tentacruel will be most of the time KO when oponnent will send Volcarona. Toxic spikes also helps to win the weather war, and limits terrakions's switch in. But why not.
  23. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,153
    I'm bored and have nothing to do. So instead of going outside to do something, I'm going onto a Pokemon forum. This is a very well thought out team and has excellent team synergy, and I'm too lazy to write out an actual rate there's not much to fix, but go 252/220/36 on Latias to outspeed +Natured base 70s. Wouldn't it suck if you grabbed 3 Calm Mind boosts only to have a Cloyster melt you in an instant? The loss of a couple defense points wont hurt your bulk that much.
  24. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
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    1,336
    Hey man nice hail team i am quite a fan of hail myself

    Ok seeing as this team is quite solid there isn't really to much i had in mind that could be changed. I was going to suggest a change i ev spread then looking over the comments New World Order beat me to it. 252 Hp / 220 Def / 36 Spe>252 Hp / 252 Hp / 236 Def / 20 Spd Helps you with Cloyster and base 70s like New World Order said the notable one being Breloom who you must outspeed so it can't Spore you. You barely lose anything in physical bulk either with the change in the ev spread.

    Also if Volcarona is really a probelm for this team you may want to try Quick Attack>Pursuit The Latis aren't to much of a threat to your team as the proirity Ice Shard that Mamoswine and Abomasnow will help with them. Although it can be a bit annoying to not be able to trap Starmie. Both moves have there merits it's up to you if Volcarona is hard to handle or not because Quick Attack can ko it once it has gotten some proir damage.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!


    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide



    Latias
    .252 Hp / 220 Def / 36 Spd>252 Hp / 236 Def / 20 Spd

    Scizor
    .Quick Attack>Pursuit*[Oppitional]



    ~Superpowerdude
  25. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    Hey, thanks for the rate. I agree with you, I've never thought to outspeed 70 bs speed with Latias(certainly because there are so little threat with 70 bs of speed lol). Add 16evs in speed won't hurt my bulk so I should just add this evs. Thank you again, I'm glad to see that you appreciate the :D

    Hey, thanks for the rate and the analysis. As mentionned earlier, I should add this 16 evs in speed. But don't forget that this is very optionnal cause it can be usefull only against Chandelure or Cloyster.
    Secondly, I have to keep pursuit on scizor to trap Jellicent. Thank you again Superpowerdude ;D

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