I am sorry to tell you that I did not reach the reqs.Then go post this in the noms thread!
Everyone!
I am sorry to tell you that I did not reach the reqs.Then go post this in the noms thread!
Everyone!
Drought teams are indeed more manageable than Drizzle and Sand, but due to the fact that the previous Metagame centred around these two (dominant) weathers, sun didn't get a chance to shine and therefore as I said I feel that people are Since the high majority of weather abuse used in Smogon during the past few months have been Drizzle or Sand Stream teams, I think that some of you unintentionally underestimating the power of Drought. underestimating the power of sun.@ Rosey :
I actually find Drought teams more manageable than Sandstream and Drizzle teams. I am able to get through more Drought teams without a specific weather counter compared to the other two top weathers, so I suppose it is not really worth the nomination if you actually put one.
I realise that for most of Smogon, the banning of Drizzle and SS abusers will be a big enough change for now, and that most of you have not yet seen Drought played effectively in OU to have a solid opinion on the matter. I firmly believe it will become an issue, but all in due time I guess...@ Rosey :
As said in the page before, there is no need to rush the bans. Let's do this step by step and ban Drizzle and SS abusers first, and then see if Drought will be centralizing enough to warrant a ban, agreed?
Fixed it for you :PManaphy people! Hop to it!
I'm not one that thinks 'Chomp, OR it's ability should get the banhammer, but wouldn't the combo ban of SS+SV still leave an open window for people to use a team that still sets up for 'Chomp on some silly $h!t like a Soft Sand (7 turns of SS weather) holding Skarmory or Forrettress that just runs runs Sandstorm (the actual move) along side their Spikes set-ups? 7 turrns is more than enough turns to switch in 'Chomp and set up, as usual since with the likes of Skarm andForrey, they cover each others weaknesses.if you read throughout the last pages you will notice that the movepool restriction problem has been mentioned several times...this is why if you have spent like 10 minutes to read the last posts u would have seen that another proposal is the combined ban of sand veil and sand stream which doesn't create any movepool restrictions as long as you don't use it with a sand streamer...
also i don't really get what you mean to include sand veil into evasion's clause effect...you mean that the ability would be usable but it wouldn't give you any evasion boost at all???so you suggest something like sleep clause???the ability won't be banned but its effect will be prevented from working???
It's in the 4th Round noms section...I disagree with it being a wasted moveslot for setup if 'Chomp is that good, but it was mentioned.I say weather inducers should be nominated collectively. You ban Drizzle, now it's all Drought and Sandstream (probably mostly Sand). You ban Drought too, infinite Sand forever, etc.
Not to mention, without free sand Garchomp's Sand Veil is completely irrelevant (unless they waste a moveslot to give something Sandstorm and waste a turn using it, which really doesn't seem worth the effort).
Because Wobboffet was used a crap ton in gen 4.If Rain is broken, why aren't more people using it? Naturally, competitive players would want to use the most powerful stuff. Are all (or at least most) of the top teams based on Drizzle? If not, why ban it? I would like to see, say, 20 of the top teams to find out.
True. Besides, the usage shows Rain is used a lot. In 10.82% of all matches there was a Politoed. Out of dozens of thousands of matches and thousands of players, 1 in 10 people used Politoed on their teams. That's a lot of people.Because Wobboffet was used a crap ton in gen 4.
Usage stats aren't a measure of strength. Otherwise Wobboffet would be in the top 10.
Oh yea btw, Politoed is still in the to 10% of the pokemon used. 10.8200%
wobbufet is a special case and you know it...Because Wobboffet was used a crap ton in gen 4.
Usage stats aren't a measure of strength. Otherwise Wobboffet would be in the top 10.
Oh yea btw, Politoed is still in the to 10% of the pokemon used. 10.8200%
the answer to your question that even if that happened,it wouldn't change the fact that the problem will have been solved in a large degree...I'm not one that thinks 'Chomp, OR it's ability should get the banhammer, but wouldn't the combo ban of SS+SV still leave an open window for people to use a team that still sets up for 'Chomp on some silly $h!t like a Soft Sand (7 turns of SS weather) holding Skarmory or Forrettress that just runs runs Sandstorm (the actual move) along side their Spikes set-ups? 7 turrns is more than enough turns to switch in 'Chomp and set up, as usual since with the likes of Skarm andForrey, they cover each others weaknesses.
Maybe a little far fetched of an ideal...at first, but if 'Chomp is as broken as some people claims it is with SS+SV, then it does still leave stuff like this as viable. Which, in turn, I suppose, would show once and for all whether or not 'Chomp is broken with Sand Veil, but without auto-weather.
*EDIT*
I stand corrected...
It's in the 4th Round noms section...I disagree with it being a wasted moveslot for setup if 'Chomp is that good, but it was mentioned.
and 1 out of 4 people use tyranitar!does this means that he is broken???True. Besides, the usage shows Rain is used a lot. In 10.82% of all matches there was a Politoed. Out of dozens of thousands of matches and thousands of players, 1 in 10 people used Politoed on their teams. That's a lot of people.
Usage matters to judge how much a pokemon is used. We all know this however, it does not give an accurate representation of a pokemon's strength.wobbufet is a special case and you know it...
and we are talking about broken stuff not maybe broken...so yes i cannot also really understand how you claim that drizzle is broken when politoed is not even in the top 10 of usage...and usage definitely matters so stop saying the opposite when it suits you...
This isn't completely obvious to everyone but Tyranitar is the anti - weather. It's strongest when going against other weather without actually being as much of a problem against non - weather than Drizzle and Drought. Also take into the fact that everyone has much more Experience with Sandstream than with Drought and Drizzle. Sandstream isn't as powerful as Drizzle but it can dominate weather.and 1 out of 4 people use tyranitar!does this means that he is broken???
yes but most of thimes something that is broken is used a lot...so that means that almost always broken mons have very high usage...to me being number 14 in the tier doesn't scream BROKEN.Usage matters to judge how much a pokemon is used. We all know this however, it does not give an accurate representation of a pokemon's strength.
How is Wobbuffet a special case? It's a very strong pokemon. However, 4th gen it wasn't used very much at all.
In 5th gen Encore lasts 3 turns including the turn it was used. Wobbuffet is still a very strong pokemon. Possibly uber but it isn't used very much at all.
i am agreing with everything except that sandstream isn't as powerful as drizzle.you cannot compare the 2 weathers like this...This isn't completely obvious to everyone but Tyranitar is the anti - weather. It's strongest when going against other weather without actually being as much of a problem against non - weather than Drizzle and Drought. Also take into the fact that everyone has much more Experience with Sandstream than with Drought and Drizzle. Sandstream isn't as powerful as Drizzle but it can dominate weather.
Then again, we've got stuff like Garchomp running around, a ton of faster threats who can threaten Manaphy with boosted STABs, bonus points going to those who can hit it super effectively, the advent of Ferrothorn, etc. If Drizzle were to go and Manaphy reintroduced, I'd think the metagame could handle it. It was banned on a knee-jerk reaction due to Drizzle effectively granting it a status immunity, alongside it's immense power. If Drizzle goes, it'd be nice to retest him, but I don't think it'll truly happen.I'm unsure atm, due to the fact that tail glow gets a plus 3 boost in 5th gen. Someone would need to convince be either way...(but I am very open minded about it.)
^ This.I've read everything that mien has said, and I don't think it could be OU material. I don't think it's a good idea to use a round of testing on something which doesn't heave a shot (IMO). It seems an inefficient use of our limited number of months.
Raikaria, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.I'm of the opinion that Ferrothorn is broken, and I'm bold enough to make the nomination, even if no-one else nominates Ferrothorn.
I'm of of the opinion that it is unhealthy for the metagame to be forced to stick Fighting/Fire attacks on every other member of your team, because otherwise Ferrothorn will wall you all day and night.
Ferrothorn's offensive prowess isn't that great, really. If it uses Gyro Ball, then pretty much anything slow can set up on it (Reuniclus, Rotom-W, Conkeldurr, etc). Not only that, but Gyro Ball has low PP. But if it uses Power Whip, then it has imperfect accuracy, it still has low PP, and it has lower power against faster threats.Raikaria said:Then there's Ferrothorn's offensive prowess [Decent Attack a Base 120 STAB and another one which is Base 120 against a good amount of the metagame], and the rediculous ease with which it can set up hazards.
I'm allowed to nominate something I feel is broken, and, to be honest, Ferrothorn is probobly seen as 'Very Good' or 'Excellent' in most people's eyes.
I just see it as 'Too Good'.
Celebi has more than 3% usage, and Virizion has more than 4%. And Ferrothorn can't do jack to either of them. Whimsicott is always, always running Max Hp/Max Def and a Bold/Impish nature, meaning that Ferrothorn's uninvested Gyro Ball won't be too much of a bother for it.Raikaria said:Oh, and Nasty Plot Celebi? I've not even seen one of those, and Virizion isn't exactly the world's most common pokemon either. Whimsicott loses horribly to Gyro Ball too, in fact, that's the case for most OU grass-types. Except Ferrothorn itself and Virizion.
Yes!Does anyone else agree with releasing manaphy if drizzle ends up banned?