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Data Official Smogon University Gen VI Simulator Statistics — October 2013

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Antar, Nov 4, 2013.

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  1. DarkGengar

    DarkGengar

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    Nice and powerful Xerneas dethroning Kyogre as king of ubers. That's what I like to see :]
  2. CyRaX2018

    CyRaX2018

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    Looking good for the start of 6th gen i cant wait till everything in 6th gen is found out so we can get the official tiers and metagame started!
  3. Aerodrome

    Aerodrome

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    OP! Regarding your Metagame Analysis, what constitutes what team will fit into each catagory? Some of them are pretty selfexplanatory (trickroom, weatherless, gravity etc), but some of them look pretty hard to define.
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  4. Mediocrity

    Mediocrity

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    What this guy said. I've been lurking for years (I remember a 4th Gen when Garchomp was actually legal), and I'm still not completely sure what some of the broader categories actually entail (Semistall is the biggest offender).

    Anyways, on a more directly related note, I'm thinking we can chalk up the sheer number of SD/King's Shield Aegislash to everyone getting a feel for how Stance Change really works. I've not had much chance to test him out personally, but by all accounts, that's the easiest set to learn to work with - and it's simplicity is definitely appealing, considering how the mechanics of Stance Change are so unique. The closest comparison we've got from an earlier generation is Relic Song Meloetta, and that change was optional.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the SD/King's Shield combo remains common throughout, but once the metagame stabilizes, it will probably go the way of DPP Electivire: really outclassed, but so simple that newer and/or less experienced players keep its usage pretty high.
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  5. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    It's more the "shiny new toy syndrome" that gives Xerneas a disproportionate usage, along with other Gen VIs/new Megas. Does anyone here actually think Yveltgal will be equivalent to Kyogre in usage?
  6. skitz0phrenic

    skitz0phrenic

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    I second this. I expect over time he'll fall off quite a bit and Salamence will rise back up a little bit.

    I don't expect Klefki or Greninja to stay anywhere near as high as they are either. They're just new and shiny.

    Still cool to see these stats though.

    I don't think Yveltal will but I think Xerneas will stay pretty high for quite awhile. Geomancy is just so strong on paper and in practice.
  7. sidakarya

    sidakarya

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    Klefki will be a very sad brownie once the genies come in two months imo.

    I do think a lot of the fairies are shiny new toys people want to try, and not all of them will stay there. Azumarill, Togekiss and Mawile do look strong enough to stay for some time though, and maybe we'll even see more of Sylveon and Gardevoir once they get delicious Hyper Voice.

    Aegislash is also something that's "new and shiny", though I suspect, that it'll be high use for some time. Even though King's Shield has a lot of utility (it lets you be a pivot of sorts, for example), most people just use the SD set, which is not very hard to play around, and even now people have found counters in bulky ground-types, Garados, etc.
  8. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    Going through Antar's suggestions, a couple things I found perusing through moveset statistics, generally Pokebank here. Starting with teammates.
    • Weather tandems (like Politoed-Kingdra or Tyranitar-Excadrill) seem strong.
    • The top 3 (Aegislash-Talonflame-Greninja) seem to be on a lot of teams.
    • Megagar and Mega Lucario don't discriminate, in Pokebank they don't have any teammate with over +1%, meaning they kinda work well with all teams.
    Moving to the checks/counters, I'll focus on the "big 4":
    • The Top 2 counters for Aegislash are Quagsire and Gliscor. Shadow Ball plus Life Orb 2HKOs both. I think the Smogcasters know what they're doing.
    • Checks for Greninja seem to be Chansey, Blissey, Sylveon, and Florges. Given that his movepool seems to conveniently lack moves to hit them super-effectively, they'll probably be solid answers for a while, unless physical sets become much more common (Waterfall 2HKOs the fairies).
    • The answer to Talonflame seems to be any Rock-type, although Heatran (in Pokebank) and Rotom-W seem to still be common and appear to wall him pretty hard, as he only seems to carry STABs, U-Turn, and Steel Wing by the stats.
    • Megagar appears to be priority weak, as nearly all of his top counters carry some form of it (Aegislash-Shadow Sneak; Scizor-Bullet Punch; Mega Mawile-Sucker Punch). Interesting that some of the common Scarfers don't show up (Garchomp, Rotom-W, I guess Tyrantrum and Malamar as well), but perhaps that's just because there other sets are strong as well.
    I also looked at some relative weightings for the 1850 stats for Pokebank, since it's likely that this will be legal when the meta finally settles down. I'm kinda lazy, so I didn't look into some deep stuff like Landorus-I.

    Top 10 Weights (open)

    1. Genesect +186.2%
    2. Landorus-T +162.4%
    3. Rotom-W +113.0%
    4. Heatran +84.8%
    5. Latios +58.7%
    6. Excadrill +55.8%
    7. Azumarill +52.0%
    8. Talonflame +51.9%
    9. Hippowdon +51.7%
    10. Ditto +36.6%
    Thoughts:
    • Yeah, Genesect is back in OU, and it still seems pretty dang good looking at the weighting. Moveset stats indicate it's a Special attacking Scarfer used in VoltTurn cores. Fire-types, namely Heatran, still appear to be the best checks.
    • Talonflame earns props for being the only Gen VI Pokemon on this list. I'll admit at first glance I thought it was a Swellow with a Fire-type, but I really underestimated how useful powerful priority (in a good attacking type too) really was.
    • Ditto seems to have found a bit of new life in OU. I'm guessing the Mega evolutions are a cause for this success, since he'll always be strictly superior to them once he transforms.

    Bottom 10 Weights (open)

    1. Cloyster -54.5%
    2. Jolteon -40.6%
    3. Blissey -37.0%
    4. Malamar -36.3%
    5. Charizard -35.3%
    6. Salamence -34.3%
    7. Tyrantrum -33.7%
    8. Espeon -33.7%
    9. Trevenant -27.7%
    10. Alakazam -23%
    Thoughts:
    • A lot of these seem to be overrated OU pokes from last gen, mixed in with some new faces.
    • Unfortunately, even with a new lease on life in OU, Charizard is still overrated, although this may be more due to his "target audience" than actual effectiveness.


    EDIT: Even though they seem insignificant, I really appreciated you posting even these abbreviated stats Antar. I hope people move the discussion in the right direction.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
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  9. Antar

    Antar Self-anointed Czar of LC UU
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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-analyses-offense-vs-stall.3470954/
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  10. DrNeoCortex

    DrNeoCortex

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    I don't get the hype about Xerneas. Geomancy forces you to use Power Herb which gives you ONE shot at sweeping. If you're forced out, there goes your sweep. People leading with it and using Geomancy on the first turn is ass, because you have to sweep a whole team of six healthy pokes without hazards. It's actually really easy to check if you're prepared for it. Assault Vest Metagross, for example, absolutely shits on it 100% of the time barring hax like a Meteor Mash miss.
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  11. T-Bolt

    T-Bolt

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    Just looking at your example shows Xerneas' influence on the Uber metagame. Your running Assault Vest Metagross, a pokemon that normally isn't very viable in Ubers, just to beat Xerneas. Other people are running Mega-Scizor and Aegislash, which can also beat Xerneas, but without one of these mons, there's a good chance your team would be swept by it.
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  12. clare

    clare

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    While Xerneas is not as unstoppable as it has been hyped up to be, its presence forces your opponent to keep its checks healthy until it has been dealt with, and its Ubers-viable checks (after SR) amount to a handful of Arceus formes and a few Steel-types, which can be dealt with accordingly.
    At the top of the ladder (2000+) it is significantly less powerful due to the prevalence of Defog + Ho-Oh + Lugia (both of which shit on it horribly), but I've swept a good number of weakened teams with it below that.
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  13. Allen Blaze

    Allen Blaze

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    Heh , looks like people don't know that Deoxys-Normal,Speed or Defense are OU , and that's a good thing , i don't want to see them in a fight because they are so broken(well , Normal and Speed at least).
    I'm really looking forward how will the metagame shape.
  14. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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    One thing to note is that the simulator's only started to support Gen 6, and some of those battles were played while Belly Drum Aqua Jet wasn't supported.
  15. Codraroll

    Codraroll
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    Hmm... if I recall correctly from this period in Gen. V, Reuniclus and Chandelure dominated the usage lists, and two generations ago Electivire and Porygon-Z were everywhere (alongside longtime stars such as Rhyperior and Rampardos). Their time in the limelight didn't last that long; the second batch of usage data looked completely different.

    Still a nice touch to release the data, though. Even though it's worthless for most intents and purposes, it's nice to see which 'mons is perceived to be the most powerful in these extremely-early stages of the metagame. If only to have something to laugh at in a year's time, that is.
  16. FrostFire

    FrostFire

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    Yeah, I'm really interested to see how the deoxys formes do this gen. Obviously Deo-D has been pretty badly nerfed by Defog; it's best job was always getting hazards up as a suicide lead, but Defog really screws up that strategy. Deo-S, of course, did the same thing and that set will probably be similarly nerfed; however, deo-s was also capable of running a great dual screens set, as well as the all-out life orb attacker which is actually pretty decent given it's great coverage and insane speed (outpaces Scarfed base 108's without a Scarf). Then there's Deo-N, which is basically Deo-A Lite; I honestly have no idea how good that thing is, I've literally never seen it in battle. We'll have to wait and see.

    EDIT:
    Ah, you're totally right. For some reason I thought you had to be base 110+ to outspeed (hey, it's been ages since deo-s has been legal...). Also, didn't realise defog removes screens. huh. The more you know.

    Don't mind me -__-
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  17. yoh102

    yoh102

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    Deo-N has the attacking power of aegislash, but with 150 base speed and high power moves, screens, and hazards. Quite the monster.
    Deo-S is as nerfed as Deo-D, since defog removes screens as well. It is superior to Deo-D though because of the instant taunt that prevents defoging and has the potential to sweep using Nasty Plot (outspeeding most scarfers while at it). I'm not so sure about him.
  18. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
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    504(Deo-S) is slower than 519(scarf base 108). Deo-S only outspeeds up to base 102 positive nature mon(no base 103 speed mons) holding scarf.
  19. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    By this logic. SD Lucario was a terrible Pokemon in DPP OU because he couldn't sweep a team of six healthy pokes without hazards, and you could get burned by a Spiritomb. There's not a single Pokemon in any metagame that can sweep 6 healthy mons. With support, Xerneas is an elite late game sweeper and the undisputed #1 Ubers set up special sweeper.
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  20. lordkira

    lordkira

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    I was never answered so I'd like to ask again.
    Why aren't more people using Mega Blaziken or simply Blaziken?
  21. Stellar

    Stellar
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    I'm pretty sure they were unintentionally banned on the ladder for a few days.
  22. lordkira

    lordkira

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    ^That makes sense.
    I was looking through the moveset log thinking Sb or he mega stone was banned by any chance.
    Realized that was not th case and hence…confused.
  23. Captain MDS

    Captain MDS

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    | 96 | Blaziken | 0.94602% | 3578 | 1.150% | 2897 | 1.185% |
    Hum.... why is no one playing the chicken in OU ? He isn't banned yet right ?
  24. yoh102

    yoh102

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    It may have been banned/ people assumed it was banned most of the time for those 8 days of data, when I ladder (around 1750 non pokebank) I see plenty of blaziken, not the most common mon, but surely more than 1%
  25. Calm_Mind_Latias

    Calm_Mind_Latias

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    I wouldn't say Aegislash is outclassed, due to King Shield's utility of stopping contact physical attackers cold, but it cannot sweep at +2 with Shadow Sneak if it has Leftovers and lacks Technician due to its low base power. Still, its mere presence, especially with King's Shield, would force a shift towards bulky Earthquake users and Will-O-Wispers that can spam their moves to cripple or severely damage it without experiencing the attack drop. Greninja has Dark Pulse and its Water/Dark typing make it resistant to Shadow Sneak.

    Not surprisingly the Lati-twins really go the short straw this gen. Psychic typing is such a huge liability now and they were also victims of the speed creep. Not only they have to face Pursuits from TTar and Scizor, but dark and ghost moves from Mega Pokemon that either outspeed them or have priority such as Kangheiskhan, Mawile, Gengar, and Lucario, and also from Aegislash's Shadow Sneak. Also, Draco is less effective due to faires. Too bad for them that Psychic didn't get a buff by at least being neutral against Steel. This trend does not seem to be a metagame fad at all.

    I wonder if Soul Dew Latis would be overpowered or they could be rehabilitated for OU if that had it.

    Landorus-T seems like a good Poke, bulky and has Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is still a nice investment since it costs a turn to remove it or Talonflame would have to use a turn to Roost.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
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