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All Gens Past Gens Research Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, May 15, 2014.

  1. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area formerly Piexplode

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    Crystal_ just curious is the no paraslam on normal thing applicable to generation 2? Since tri attack can burn fire types and freeze ice types during that generation.. I'm just a little confused c:
  3. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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  4. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
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    Generation III
    Whirlwind's priority is decreased to -5. Whirlwind will fail when used against Pokémon with the Ability Suction Cups or rooted by Ingrain. In a Trainer battle, rather than switching out to a random Pokémon in the party, it switches out to the next Pokémon in line that has not fainted. If two Pokémon use Whirlwind at the same time, instead of the faster one failing, the faster one will go first and switch the slower one out.

    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Whirlwind_(move)

    Could anyone test/deny/confirm this?
    Technically, that'd be very significant in ADV. You could put Magneton right after your Meta/Lax/Hera so WW Skarm always phazes it in for example.
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  5. froggy25

    froggy25 Bye RNGmon
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    All right, I tested 3rd Gen Whirlwind. This is wrong, I got random Pokémon sent out after a short while.

    HOWEVER, despite the 100% accuracy of Whirlwind, I missed it several times against Swampert / Gengar / etc.
    Roar didn't miss.

    Edit: Made a quick video. Whirlwind fails @ 4:36. No accuracy / Evasion modifiers.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  6. Marty

    Marty Always more to find
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    From UPC:
    Basically, every time you used Whirlwind on Swampert or anything of a similar level it had ~20% chance to fail. This happens in Gen 4 too, and Game Freak decided to apply this kind of level checking only to wild battles instead of trainer battles starting in Gen 5. It's the same for Roar, so I assume your Roar user was a higher level than every target, or you got very lucky.
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  7. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    "Trainer battle" might simply mean in-game trainer battle, as opposed to link battle.
  8. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    R/B/Y Bide:

    When Bide accumulates damage, it checks the memory addresses responsible from storing the last move's damage to check how much damage to add to the already accumulated by Bide. However, certain non-damaging moves (as well as switching out) do not clear the damage addresses, meaning that when they are used, Bide will accumulate damage from a previous attack, and will eventually deal more damage than it should have. The moves that do not clear the damage are:
    - Conversion
    - Haze
    - Teleport
    - Mist
    - Focus Energy
    - Confusion effect (e.g. Supersonic)
    - Heal effect (e.g. Recover)
    - Transform
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Poison effect (e.g. Poisonpowder)
    - Paralyze effect (e.g. Thunder Wave)
    - Substitute
    - Mimic
    - Leech Seed
    - Splash

    For example:

    Turn 1: Player A uses Bide, Player B uses an attack; deals 50 damage to A
    Turn 2: Player A is storing energy, Player B uses one of the above non-damaging moves or switches out
    Turn 3: Player A is storing energy, Player B uses one of the above non-damaging moves or switches out
    Turn 4: Player A unleases energy, deals (50+50+50)*2 = 300 damage.

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  9. WreckDra

    WreckDra He came home from the war with a party in his head...
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    To get the Burn and Para mechanics straight, if Slowbro paralyzed a Dragonite and DNite Agilities out of the Speed drop, if Slowbro used Amnesia next turn, would Dragonite reacquire the Speed drop? Crystal_
  10. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    stat level = +0 || (speed/4 due to paralysis)
    stat level = +0 + (+2) = +2 || (speed*2, paralysis drop ignored)
    stat level = +2 || (speed*2/4, paralysis drop is back)
    EDIT: Yep.
    WreckDra :D
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
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  11. Zowayix

    Zowayix

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    ^Wait, huh? According to http://www.dragonflycave.com/rbystatmods.aspx, the speed drop is reapplied, causing Dragonite's Speed to overall be 1/2 its regular value (*1/4 from paralysis and *2 from Agility). Where did the -2 on the third line come from?
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  12. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    uhh, I messed up so badly. I wonder where I took that -2 from too. Whatever, I just messed up.

    Anyway, refer to this (*) old example whenever in doubt and you should do fine, it's just about adequating the turn value, the stat affected and the stat up/down moves used to each case. My memory sucks let's be honest here, that's why I like document complex things like these as good as I can for future reference. So checking out the research thread where it should be covered would me a much better idea than asking me!

    (*) My opponent has 20 attack. During my turn, I use Ember and burn it, its attack stat becoming 10. In my next turn I use Double Team, a stat modifying move. Not only my Evasion will be raised due to Double Team's effect, but, since it's my turn and my opponent is burned, my opponent's attack stat will be halved again, becoming 5.
  13. Zowayix

    Zowayix

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    ^Right, I completely understand the (*) scenario. The previous scenario was:
    - A uses a paralyzing move on B. Since a stat-altering move was used and the non-user (B) is paralyzed, the non-user (B)'s Speed is multiplied by 1/4.
    - B uses Agility. Their Speed is calculated as +2 (double) their regular speed. Since the non-user (A) is not paralyzed, no one's Speed is multiplied by 1/4, effectively causing B's speed to remain double the original and canceling out its paralysis drop.
    - A increases one of their stats (through Amnesia, in the example). Since a stat-altering move was used and the non-user (B) is paralyzed, the non-user (B)'s Speed is multiplied by 1/4. This effectively reapplies the previously-canceled paralysis drop, and everything is "normal" now.
  14. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
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    Normal Gem doesn't boost Explosion currently in Gen 5, would be cool if it could be corrected by the week-end for the Smogon Tour :toast:

    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
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  15. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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  16. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
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    Gonna relay the information in the appropriate thread:

    ADV
    [​IMG]

    The problem being that you can't use Choiced Sleep Talk more than once in ADV.

    From Bulbapedia:

    "When using Sleep Talk while holding a Choice Band, the first use will work normally, but all subsequent uses will always fail, even if the user only has one move other than Sleep Talk. Sleep Talk can call a move with no PP remaining, but will fail to execute it due to a lack of PP."
    Source: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sleep_Talk_(move)#Generation_III
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  17. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Do you know if being out to sleep, CB stalking x times, then waking up and being put to sleep again without switching out allows you to STalk once more?
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  18. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
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  19. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    I'm no ADV expert but it looks to me that what makes Sleep Talk miss is having the Choice Band lock active. So the most reasonable behaviour to me would be that any sleep talk after the first would miss no matter how many times you wake up and/or are put to sleep. Best way to test this out would be using Sleep Talk with your CB mon, have opponent put you to sleep, then using ST again and see if it misses or hits.
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  20. Marty

    Marty Always more to find
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    Crystal_ is correct, in Gen 3 and 4 only the use of Sleep Talk that starts the Choice lock can call a move (obviously only while asleep), and all uses after that will fail while the Pokemon stays active.

    Edit: This seems to only apply to Sleep Talk, since Choiced Assist and Metronome do not fail on consecutive uses.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
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  21. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    Since I constantly get asked different stuff related to how the damage is handled in RBY, I decided to put this together for any future reference: http://pastebin.com/Lb7QnKVi

    The order that I listed the different points may seem a bit messed up, but I tried to follow the order in which stuff happens in the games to prevent any further confusion.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
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  22. Joim

    Joim Pixels matter
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    Crystal_ Marty D Jellicent
    May I get a list with the differences between Red and Green, Red and Blue, and Yellow, if any?
  23. froggy25

    froggy25 Bye RNGmon
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    Blizzard has 30% freeze in Red and Green, mainly.
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  24. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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  25. Marty

    Marty Always more to find
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    What froggy25 said is the only legitimate mechanical difference I'm aware of. What Crystal_ said is news to me; I always thought lowercase "disabled!" was a strange part of Red/Blue, interesting that they changed it. Speaking of changes in Yellow, here's a real gem:
    Code:
        text "Psychic #MON"
    IF DEF(_YELLOW)
        line "fear only bugs!"
    ELSE
        line "fear only ghosts"
        cont "and bugs!"
    Got the Ghost VS Psychic effectiveness wrong on the first outing? That's okay, just remove all references to it!
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