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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3
- Thread starter Tangerine
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Infernape can use Grass Knot, can Donphan survive that?
Remember, Ice Shard when super effective = Seed Bomb when nuetral. Is Ice Shard that helpful? Perhaps for Gliscors and Flygon, and maybe even Salamence.
I think those can be factored in. (I do see some Scarfed U-turn Flygons as leads, and still see lead Specs Mence, so it may be a good idea to add in Ice Shard Calculations, especially after Intimidate).
Remember, Ice Shard when super effective = Seed Bomb when nuetral. Is Ice Shard that helpful? Perhaps for Gliscors and Flygon, and maybe even Salamence.
I think those can be factored in. (I do see some Scarfed U-turn Flygons as leads, and still see lead Specs Mence, so it may be a good idea to add in Ice Shard Calculations, especially after Intimidate).
Ice Shard is priority, allowing it to do a Metagross-esque break sash + finish with priority to negate its dreadful speed. Expert Belt could work, as it seems that it will only lose power on Aero and Azelf. I see much more Swampert/Gross than Azelf these days anyway. I think it could work.
Azelf probably wins if it has Psychic (2HKO). I don't know if Seed Bomb + Ice Shard will KO Azelf.
As for maxing attack, 33% sucks anyway. They're wasted EVs if you don't manage the OHKO, and you usually won't. Unfortunately, Donphan probably underspeeds Swampert, and I don't think it'll take two Surfs, especially with LO.
EDIT: Ice Shard calculations:
Donphan's Ice Shard on Azelf: 22-26% (can't Seed Bomb + Ice Shard, so Azelf will 2HKO)
Donphan's Ice Shard on Salamence: 71-84% (ech, without Intimidate)
Donphan's Ice Shard on Flygon: 78-93% (this is good if it U-turns, as it will significantly hamper Flygon's scouting abilities, but otherwise it isn't great)
I think Donphan would need Ice Shard to take care of Sashers, but it isn't an excellent attack. Grass/Ice/Ground at first looks to have decent coverage, but it isn't great.
Donphan doesn't beat Azelf. Infernape wins if it has Grass Knot. Swampert wins if it has Surf/probably Ice Beam. It does beat Gross, though, and probably Heatran.
Azelf probably wins if it has Psychic (2HKO). I don't know if Seed Bomb + Ice Shard will KO Azelf.
As for maxing attack, 33% sucks anyway. They're wasted EVs if you don't manage the OHKO, and you usually won't. Unfortunately, Donphan probably underspeeds Swampert, and I don't think it'll take two Surfs, especially with LO.
EDIT: Ice Shard calculations:
Donphan's Ice Shard on Azelf: 22-26% (can't Seed Bomb + Ice Shard, so Azelf will 2HKO)
Donphan's Ice Shard on Salamence: 71-84% (ech, without Intimidate)
Donphan's Ice Shard on Flygon: 78-93% (this is good if it U-turns, as it will significantly hamper Flygon's scouting abilities, but otherwise it isn't great)
I think Donphan would need Ice Shard to take care of Sashers, but it isn't an excellent attack. Grass/Ice/Ground at first looks to have decent coverage, but it isn't great.
Donphan doesn't beat Azelf. Infernape wins if it has Grass Knot. Swampert wins if it has Surf/probably Ice Beam. It does beat Gross, though, and probably Heatran.
Does LO Heatran 1HKO Donpahn with Fire Blast? Specs?
Try Gyro Ball over Seed Bomb for Aerodactyl, Gengar, Weavile, Abomasnow, Azelf, etc.
Another move with 150 base Power doesn't seem so bad when you consider most of these Pokemon are either resistant or Immune to Earthquake. (Weavile is the only exception, but he still takes more from Gyro Ball).
As for Abomasnow, if Abomasnow predicts a switch and uses Leech Seed, or Focus Punch Gyro Ball can certainly hit him quite hard after Life Orb's boost, but I am unsure of the %.
All in all, besides Swampert, it actually seems Gyro Ball deals more damage to these common leads than Seed Bomb would.
Perhaps try Gyro Ball on Donphan.
Try Gyro Ball over Seed Bomb for Aerodactyl, Gengar, Weavile, Abomasnow, Azelf, etc.
Another move with 150 base Power doesn't seem so bad when you consider most of these Pokemon are either resistant or Immune to Earthquake. (Weavile is the only exception, but he still takes more from Gyro Ball).
As for Abomasnow, if Abomasnow predicts a switch and uses Leech Seed, or Focus Punch Gyro Ball can certainly hit him quite hard after Life Orb's boost, but I am unsure of the %.
All in all, besides Swampert, it actually seems Gyro Ball deals more damage to these common leads than Seed Bomb would.
Perhaps try Gyro Ball on Donphan.
Agreed. The types are very useful, but do not form perfect coverages.
I always look at the Pokemon's STABs and say whether the STAB is useful, or covering. Covering actually means that there is perfect coverage like Flygon and Garchomp, or the Fight/Ghost CAP (does not belong to here, just an example), while useful means it just hits a lot for SE, like Infernape, Tyranitar, etc.
This is a pretty good set for scouting, but with U-turn as a move, I'm wondering it Hasty/Naive would work as well for this set as well.
That Zapdos looks like it would work fairly well. I say Timid is fine, since you aren't really trying to deal damage with U-Turn, just scout. Works well on Agiligross, since a lot of them will switch out of Zapdos due to Heat Wave (most of them can't harm Zapdos outside of Ice Punch/Explosion). If they stay in, you can switch to a Steel-type to take the Ice Punch/Explosion.
However, with a Flying type like Zapdos that will be switching in and out so much, and one that isn't very defensive at that, Stealth Rock will put a big hole in Zapdos's plans.
The only problem is that there already is a Choice Zapdos set on the analysis with a more efficient EV spread. :\
I've skimmed this thread and the previous two, and I haven't seen this set yet. (But if somebody has already posted this, just tell me and I'll replace it with something else)
Staraptor@ Focus Sash
4HP/252Atk/252Spe and Adamant (a +Speed nature isn't necessary)
-Brave Bird
-Close Combat
-Endeavor
-Quick Attack
The trick here is to come on a starter, lets say a 6 DD Gyarados, for example, while stealth rocks aren't up, after sacrificing your lead to get up some rocks and spikes of your own. Gyarados, comes in, Waterfalls (or Stone Edge, if he's feeling particularly ballzy or suspects a switch to Vaporeon), and brings you down to your sash. But what's this? It appears that Gyarados has been brought down to 1 HP, and is soon to fall victim to a Quick Attack, putting his potential 6-0 to a full stop.
Now, this doesn't always have to revenge leads, but it is preferrable that SR isn't up, for obvious, Sash-breaking reasons. He doesn't mind having Tyranitar coming in, at 1 HP or not, because no self-respecting Tyranitar enjoys a Close Combat, being made of rocks and darkness as it is. However, Rotom and any of its mechanical manifestations wall circles around the poor avian, but then again, so do the other Ghosts. His main purpose is to stop any rampaging threat dead in its tracks, and it has done just that many times (the 6 DD Gyarados being an example).
A common revenger for him would be anyone with a priority move, Scizor being a prime example, in which case, you can either Quick Attack in your death throes, or switch to a suitable counter and save your plucky avian for later.
If you are facing a slower foe, always start out with Close Combat (even if it's a resist). The lack of Life Orb recoil will create the assumption that it is holding a Choice Item, after which case they'll switch in to a suitable counter (whose name may or may not be Zapdos). Close Combat again to keep up the ruse, and when you are inevitably shot down, endeavor and have a Pokemon with a priority move clean up.
I've never tried this in UU, but it has saved my ass countless times in OU. Its best use is to revenge a lead like Starmie, who can just blow away any rocks that have been set up.
If the Sash is broken, however, and your spinner is incapacitated, Staraptor still packs a punch. The recoil from his 120 base power STAB isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he can endeavor a wall that he would otherwise have trouble against and leave it to another Pokemon to clean up. His STAB priority move can clean up some of the frailer, faster sweepers, or to stop other Sashers from doing anything too horrible to it.
(I don't have any damage calculations, but it's fairly well-known that an endeavor from a sash always brings a non Ghost to 1%)
Staraptor@ Focus Sash
4HP/252Atk/252Spe and Adamant (a +Speed nature isn't necessary)
-Brave Bird
-Close Combat
-Endeavor
-Quick Attack
The trick here is to come on a starter, lets say a 6 DD Gyarados, for example, while stealth rocks aren't up, after sacrificing your lead to get up some rocks and spikes of your own. Gyarados, comes in, Waterfalls (or Stone Edge, if he's feeling particularly ballzy or suspects a switch to Vaporeon), and brings you down to your sash. But what's this? It appears that Gyarados has been brought down to 1 HP, and is soon to fall victim to a Quick Attack, putting his potential 6-0 to a full stop.
Now, this doesn't always have to revenge leads, but it is preferrable that SR isn't up, for obvious, Sash-breaking reasons. He doesn't mind having Tyranitar coming in, at 1 HP or not, because no self-respecting Tyranitar enjoys a Close Combat, being made of rocks and darkness as it is. However, Rotom and any of its mechanical manifestations wall circles around the poor avian, but then again, so do the other Ghosts. His main purpose is to stop any rampaging threat dead in its tracks, and it has done just that many times (the 6 DD Gyarados being an example).
A common revenger for him would be anyone with a priority move, Scizor being a prime example, in which case, you can either Quick Attack in your death throes, or switch to a suitable counter and save your plucky avian for later.
If you are facing a slower foe, always start out with Close Combat (even if it's a resist). The lack of Life Orb recoil will create the assumption that it is holding a Choice Item, after which case they'll switch in to a suitable counter (whose name may or may not be Zapdos). Close Combat again to keep up the ruse, and when you are inevitably shot down, endeavor and have a Pokemon with a priority move clean up.
I've never tried this in UU, but it has saved my ass countless times in OU. Its best use is to revenge a lead like Starmie, who can just blow away any rocks that have been set up.
If the Sash is broken, however, and your spinner is incapacitated, Staraptor still packs a punch. The recoil from his 120 base power STAB isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he can endeavor a wall that he would otherwise have trouble against and leave it to another Pokemon to clean up. His STAB priority move can clean up some of the frailer, faster sweepers, or to stop other Sashers from doing anything too horrible to it.
(I don't have any damage calculations, but it's fairly well-known that an endeavor from a sash always brings a non Ghost to 1%)
Here's a lead Tyranitar set that seems to be efficient in ubers in my opinion.
Tyranitar@Lum Berry/Focus Sash
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Protect/Focus Punch
This set allows Tyranitar to safely set up Steath Rock to the opponent as well as incacipating other leads. Obviously Stealth Rock is a primary move here, since the majority of pokemon in the uber tier tend to be weak to it. If an opposing Deoxys-S is coming in to taunt your Stealth Rock, Crunch it back for an OHKO (Focus Sash gets nullified by Sandstorm). Stone Edge is for STAB, and it 2HKOs the majority of the pokemon in ubers (barring the ones that resist it). Lastly, Protect is there to make prediction easier against Scizor (who may U-turn), but Focus Punch can be useful for Darkrai leads just waiting to send you to a deep slumber.
If you think T-tar might get OHKO'd, there's always Focus Sash as an option so you can always set up Stealth Rock.
Tyranitar@Lum Berry/Focus Sash
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Protect/Focus Punch
This set allows Tyranitar to safely set up Steath Rock to the opponent as well as incacipating other leads. Obviously Stealth Rock is a primary move here, since the majority of pokemon in the uber tier tend to be weak to it. If an opposing Deoxys-S is coming in to taunt your Stealth Rock, Crunch it back for an OHKO (Focus Sash gets nullified by Sandstorm). Stone Edge is for STAB, and it 2HKOs the majority of the pokemon in ubers (barring the ones that resist it). Lastly, Protect is there to make prediction easier against Scizor (who may U-turn), but Focus Punch can be useful for Darkrai leads just waiting to send you to a deep slumber.
If you think T-tar might get OHKO'd, there's always Focus Sash as an option so you can always set up Stealth Rock.
There are a couple of reasons why this set would be hard to pull off. Firstly, the whole Endeavor / Quick Attack scenario is ruined if Staraptor takes any prior damage. This means it requires spin support to work. Secondly, if Hail or Sandstorm is active and you are faster than the Pokemon you want to Endeavor (which will most often be the case, as Staraptor is pretty fast and the Pokemon usually faster than it will be more effectively dealt with by BB/CC), you cannot, as the residual damage at the end of the turn will kill you. Lastly, the recoil from Brave Bird breaks your own sash, meaning you will not be able to Endeavor.
This set can't really touch any Ghost-types either. They are either faster than you and can OHKO you (Gengar, Mismagius), or are bulky enough to take a Brave Bird quite comfortably (Rotom, Dusknoir, Spiritomb). Sorry, but I'm not too convinced on this set =/.
SubPunch Golduck
Golduck @ Life Orb
Ability: Cloud Nine
EV's: 252 Atk / 160 SAtk / 96 Spe
Lonely Nature(+Atk, -Def)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Calm Mind
This is probably Golducks best chance of working in OU. With the following set you get 289 Atk and 266 SAtk. These EV's allow for a 92% chance of an OHKO on Blissey with SR and a definate 2HKO on the standard Zapdos with or without SR. Surf is for general STAB. Calm Mind is another option over Ice Beam as it allows you to possibly sweep teams after you have taken out Blissey.
I'm really not good at this ^^"
Golduck @ Life Orb
Ability: Cloud Nine
EV's: 252 Atk / 160 SAtk / 96 Spe
Lonely Nature(+Atk, -Def)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Calm Mind
This is probably Golducks best chance of working in OU. With the following set you get 289 Atk and 266 SAtk. These EV's allow for a 92% chance of an OHKO on Blissey with SR and a definate 2HKO on the standard Zapdos with or without SR. Surf is for general STAB. Calm Mind is another option over Ice Beam as it allows you to possibly sweep teams after you have taken out Blissey.
I'm really not good at this ^^"
Perhaps using U-turn over Brave Bird would be effective. It would also, like Close Combat, fool the foe into thinking they are facing a Scarf Staraptor (no LO recoil).
Additionally, U-turn works nicely on Staraptor, because Staraptor has still done its part in Intimidating the foe, and switching to a counter. Most Intimidate Pokemon do no know U-turn, so its nice to have Staraptor being able to Intimidate, scout a switch, and act accordingly. Additionally, it does nice damage to Celebi without worrying about recoil from Brave Bird, not that Celebi stay in on Staraptor to begin with.
Finally, Intimidate+U-turn + Switching into Dugtrio or Magnezone to take Electric, Ice or Rock attacks seems like a nice combination, considering Magnezone resists all 3, and can trap Steels like Metagross. Dugtrio can work the same against weak Rock Slides and various Electric attacks. Additionally, the Intimidate helps make the switch even easier on Magnezone and Dugtrio, who can proceed to trap the foe.
Additionally, U-turn works nicely on Staraptor, because Staraptor has still done its part in Intimidating the foe, and switching to a counter. Most Intimidate Pokemon do no know U-turn, so its nice to have Staraptor being able to Intimidate, scout a switch, and act accordingly. Additionally, it does nice damage to Celebi without worrying about recoil from Brave Bird, not that Celebi stay in on Staraptor to begin with.
Finally, Intimidate+U-turn + Switching into Dugtrio or Magnezone to take Electric, Ice or Rock attacks seems like a nice combination, considering Magnezone resists all 3, and can trap Steels like Metagross. Dugtrio can work the same against weak Rock Slides and various Electric attacks. Additionally, the Intimidate helps make the switch even easier on Magnezone and Dugtrio, who can proceed to trap the foe.
"Scizor-Counter?"
@ Babiri Berry
Jolly
EV: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
I don't really post here much, and smogon in general but I read a thread somewhere and having to utilize Babiri Berry is pretty good. This is not creative but it is new and I tested it. For those that don't know Babiri berry it reduces the damage of steel attacks by 50% which is enough to survive from Scizor. Fire Punch will OHKO w/ or w/o Dragon Dance. This set will help DD set more useful and even more dangerous now that the counter is gone. Back then DD Tyranitar was dangerous, now this should handle Scizor and the surprise factor is great, you beat Scizor which is always a threat to any teams not only that, it also always you to continue your sweep. Fire Punch is for Skarmory and steel types mainly. Stone Edge / Crunch are excellent STAB moves. Jolly is a prefered natured so you outspeed beneficial natured 115. e.g Starmie, Azelf and Ambipom
Jolly
EV: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
I don't really post here much, and smogon in general but I read a thread somewhere and having to utilize Babiri Berry is pretty good. This is not creative but it is new and I tested it. For those that don't know Babiri berry it reduces the damage of steel attacks by 50% which is enough to survive from Scizor. Fire Punch will OHKO w/ or w/o Dragon Dance. This set will help DD set more useful and even more dangerous now that the counter is gone. Back then DD Tyranitar was dangerous, now this should handle Scizor and the surprise factor is great, you beat Scizor which is always a threat to any teams not only that, it also always you to continue your sweep. Fire Punch is for Skarmory and steel types mainly. Stone Edge / Crunch are excellent STAB moves. Jolly is a prefered natured so you outspeed beneficial natured 115. e.g Starmie, Azelf and Ambipom
SevenDeadlySins has already made an exact set like this a few pages back. Also, this doesn't counter Scizor at all, especially since T-tar can still take massive amounts of damage from U-turn/Bullet Punch."Scizor-Counter?"
@ Babiri Berry
Jolly
EV: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
I don't really post here much, and smogon in general but I read a thread somewhere and having to utilize Babiri Berry is pretty good. This is not creative but it is new and I tested it. For those that don't know Babiri berry it reduces the damage of steel attacks by 50% which is enough to survive from Scizor. Fire Punch will OHKO w/ or w/o Dragon Dance. This set will help DD set more useful and even more dangerous now that the counter is gone. Back then DD Tyranitar was dangerous, now this should handle Scizor and the surprise factor is great, you beat Scizor which is always a threat to any teams not only that, it also always you to continue your sweep. Fire Punch is for Skarmory and steel types mainly. Stone Edge / Crunch are excellent STAB moves. Jolly is a prefered natured so you outspeed beneficial natured 115. e.g Starmie, Azelf and Ambipom
I don't see the set, but Tyranitar out speeds it and U-Turn can't do anything to it. Bullet Punch is reduced by Babiri Berry, I'm almost sure it will OHKo Scizor unless it is holding Occa Berry which is very unlikely.
CB scizor U-turn versus that t-tar 102.05% - 120.23%- nothing at all
It's a good scizor lure, but not a counter
Counter isn't really something I should name it, lol. I was rushing the set and I don't know anyone that would switch in on Scizor if your Tyranitar. This would only work if you drop your DD and Scizor switches in on you. DD will outspeed Scizor and fail to Bullet Punch you, that is the concept.
Is this without Sandstorm factored in, or with sandstorm? Because I think with sandstorm boost Scizor's U-turn might do a lot less.
Sandstorm boost SpD only.
I use Babiritar on some teams. It does work. Bring Tyranitar in and do whatever. If they switch to Scizor, you outspeed if they try to Superpower/Brick Break/U-Turn you, or you'll survive taking 40-50% or so (not gonna bother calculating) from Bullet Punch. It isn't a counter, since I counter has to be able to switch in to a certain Pokemon, and this Tyranitar can't switch in to Scizor (it gets OHKOed by anything but Bullet Punch; Scizor can OHKO if it Swords Dances on the switch; Scizor can 2HKO if it Bullet Punches on the switch). This is an effective way to prevent Scizor from stopping a setup/sweep, and is effective against teams that rely on Scizor to counter Tyranitar (he's so common that it wouldn't be unusual to not even consider Tyranitar during teambuilding).
SubPunch Golduck basically looks outclassed by most other subpunchers. 92% chance of OHKOing Blissey is a testament to that, since Blissey really shouldn't survive Focus Punches.
SubPunch Golduck basically looks outclassed by most other subpunchers. 92% chance of OHKOing Blissey is a testament to that, since Blissey really shouldn't survive Focus Punches.
SubPunch Golduck
Golduck @ Life Orb
Ability: Cloud Nine
EV's: 252 Atk / 160 SAtk / 96 Spe
Lonely Nature(+Atk, -Def)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Calm Mind
This is probably Golducks best chance of working in OU. With the following set you get 289 Atk and 266 SAtk. These EV's allow for a 92% chance of an OHKO on Blissey with SR and a definate 2HKO on the standard Zapdos with or without SR. Surf is for general STAB. Calm Mind is another option over Ice Beam as it allows you to possibly sweep teams after you have taken out Blissey.
I'm really not good at this ^^"
Actually, you can run Expert Belt and a lot less attack: 259 Atk+Expert Belt+Focus Punch 1hkoes the standard 0 HP/252 Def neutral nature Blissey. This helps your survivability a lot more, and lets you either be faster or have a higher SpA.
144 Atk/160 Spd/204 SpA with a +Attack Nature would let golduck hit 259 Atk and 277 SpA.
Still, this Golduck still struggles against bulky waters, LO and max attack or not.
EDIT: 236 Atk/160 Spd/112 SpA with a +SpA nature gets you the stats you need, but 2 more points in SpA hehe.
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