Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

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Kurai said:
So basically, any team that has Zoroark automatically broke Species Clause. :naughty:

I guess they could program a skip in the animation, but that would still make it obvious because you didn't do anything that turn. It just went from Jigglypuff... to Jigglypuff. No attack, no switching out, and in a WiFi battle, you have to do SOMETHING every turn.
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In all fairness, it seems like Zoroark was wholly intended to be a lead, which is why it copies the second Pokemon in the party as opposed to, say, the first, which would make more sense otherwise. As a lead, no one will know what your team consists of yet so it won't be so obvious yet. From there its just a matter of hoping your Illusion isn't broken by whatever breaks, and not switching your Illusion and the copied Pokemon consecutively. Too bad Stealth Rock damage and abilities can really give it away...

It really should have copied one of your opponent's Pokemon, really, not your own. Since that way, you'd know one Pokemon on your opponents team if your lucky and its not the lead. Which seems like it would be more beneficial.
 
DarkEspeon said:
Am I the only one seeing Illusion being a short-lived gimmick that will ultimately just get in the way and send Zoroark down to NU? It's only useful if the team is built with it in mind, it'll be useless after one or two turns, Zoroark is frail... Really, it just seems like one of those surprise gimmick sets that never get anywhere.
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If it learns some support moves or whatnot I could see it being a viable lead. If it has stats comparable to say Weavile, it might even make some sort of anti-lead. In terms of mindgames, you'll never know what you're facing - Zoro or an actual lead pokemon. Many lead pokemon work only as lead so feigning an Azelf or Aerodactyl won't do you much good, but tricking an enemy Azelf into thinking you're using Machamp may give you an edge if they go for the quick KO with psychic(EDIT: It doesn't KO anyway, so I'm an idiot :P). However if Zoro can't use that free turn to do anything other than his att/acc+ move then it isn't really worth it.

This won't work all the time but I think it will work enough to keep it around OU level. Other gimmick pokemon are stuck in OU because enough usage keeps them there. Smeargle and Ninjask come to mind.

Then again, I'm probably wrong on this because I'm assuming Gen5 will be fairly similar to Gen4 and I have nothing to base anything on.
 
On the topic of Illusion, how would Zoroark function in double battles? For example, let's say one has a team as follows: Venasaur/Zoroark/Kyogre/Pichu. Would Zoroark "transform" into Kyogre or Venasaur?
 
Krevino 491 said:
On the topic of Illusion, how would Zoroark function in double battles? For example, let's say one has a team as follows: Venasaur/Zoroark/Kyogre/Pichu. Would Zoroark "transform" into Kyogre or Venasaur?
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I'm guessing in double battles, it'll probably appear to be whatever's in the third slot of your party. That's the most likely thing. In general, I'll bet it transforms into the first Pokémon in your party not currently in play.

Speaking of double battles, I can see a Pokémon with Illusion being a lot less predictable in a PBR-like game, where you can see your opponent's team and pick three or four Pokémon to use, choosing your lead(s) at that time. Your opponent will know you have a Zoroark, but is that Gengar you led with really a Gengar, or not? Hmm…

Then, if you have a rematch with the opponent, you could appear to lead with the same Pokémon, but actually switch it up. I think the mind-games are much more interesting in that sort of environment.
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
I'm guessing in double battles, it'll probably appear to be whatever's in the third slot of your party. That's the most likely thing. In general, I'll bet it transforms into the first Pokémon in your party not currently in play.

Speaking of double battles, I can see a Pokémon with Illusion being a lot less predictable in a PBR-like game, where you can see your opponent's team and pick three or four Pokémon to use, choosing your lead(s) at that time. Your opponent will know you have a Zoroark, but is that Gengar you led with really a Gengar, or not? Hmm…

Then, if you have a rematch with the opponent, you could appear to lead with the same Pokémon, but actually switch it up. I think the mind-games are much more interesting in that sort of environment.
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you are assuming that your opponent won't see zoruak change at the beginning of the battle. Of course, if they don't his ability is very useful.
 
Can someone confirm if the lineup changes during the battle along with your switches?
It it does, I don't see Illusion being viable, except for leading, as you would always need to consider what on earth has ended up in the second spot when you want to use it. Also, if it does change. Your pokemon faints, you switch to the one in the second slot. Fainted pokemon takes the second slot for the rest of the battle. Zoroark comes in looking like that guy you just shot down, not much of an Illusion
 
Wolfen11 said:
Can someone confirm if the lineup changes during the battle along with your switches?
It it does, I don't see Illusion being viable, except for leading, as you would always need to consider what on earth has ended up in the second spot when you want to use it. Also, if it does change. Your pokemon faints, you switch to the one in the second slot. Fainted pokemon takes the second slot for the rest of the battle. Zoroark comes in looking like that guy you just shot down, not much of an Illusion
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That's not how the lineup works. When one of your Pokemon dies, the next Pokemon in line takes over that "position." So if one of your Pokemon faints, the next Pokemon (third slot) would be the Pokemon Zoroark disguises itself as.
 
pkmn-taicho321 said:
you are assuming that your opponent won't see zoruak change at the beginning of the battle. Of course, if they don't his ability is very useful.
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Common sense tells us that this is the case. If the opponent saw the transformation, the Illusion ability would be absolutely worthless.

Also, it's been confirmed that the Pokémon with Illusion also has the name of the Pokémon it appears to be.
 
so the zoroark will show up with the name entei if he transform into entei? look interesting and if your stats are right then he fits my fighting style 100%(play dirty, kill fast)
 
Is it confirmed that when he is sent out, that there IS a transformation animation?
((Side note: Try saying transformation animation 5x fast :p))
 
Jats605 said:
Is it confirmed that when he is sent out, that there IS a transformation animation?
((Side note: Try saying transformation animation 5x fast :p))
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I didnt get the transformation animation thingy >_>
EDIT:Can someone link me to the last video of gameplay found w/the bug gym and showing the trainer throwing animation etc. etc. , I believe someone linked it on filb.de but i dun understand dutch or whatever the language is there(no offense)
 
Jats605 said:
Is it confirmed that when he is sent out, that there IS a transformation animation?
((Side note: Try saying transformation animation 5x fast :p))
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We got no clue about that atm, we're just going on if Zoroark comes in as the new pokemon with no hinting animations or anything. Like mentioned before...if there's an animation this ability sucks >.<

Oh...and I can say transformation animation 5x fast :3
 
Illusion is kind of a bittersweet ability, to be honest. On paper (assuming that there's no transformation animation), that ability seems really tricky, and could potentially screw over a lot of game plans competitively (i.e. Zoroark transforming into Blissey coming into a Starmie, and using Pursuit on the switch). However, we must also acknowledge the fact that Zoroark will be unable to fully pull off its ability on every Pokemon, including some notable ones. For instance, it can't pull off Salamence and Gyarados, for the loss of Intimidate will be obvious, Tyranitar and other Weather inducers, for the loss of auto-weather will be obvious, and pretty much anything with an ability that will make its appearance way too obvious (Mold Breaker, Levitate, Flash Fire, Dry Skin, etc).

Overall, I think the ability will be really useful, but it'll also be kind of a heavy risk, heavy reward kind of ability, much more than we can anticipate. It would have to be played pretty well for it to be pulled off, and one slip could ruin an entire match. It's definitely not overpowered, but it will be major.
 
Lucalibur said:
i just know that the gen 5 metagame will be horrible because of zoroark ability, but its always fun in-game anyway.
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Kinda like how everyone knew that Rhyperior and Electivire would shape the metagame in DP, and how Heatran would be terrible because it's 4x weak to Ground type, amirite?
 
DrkSlay said:
... Zoroark will be unable to fully pull off its ability on every Pokemon, including some notable ones. For instance, it can't pull off Salamence and Gyarados, for the loss of Intimidate will be obvious...
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That's assuming, of course, that those pokemon don't get new abilities. I think it's possible that in gen 5 all pokemon may have two abilities.
 
Zoroark's ability would be beneficial to those willing to abuse it. Probably should not copy a Poison (for Toxic Spikes), Flyer or Levitator, Sandstorm/Hail immune, or Stealth Rock weak/resistant. Eliminates a lot of pokemon.

Since I have no life, I counted and GF has yet to use 59 typing combinations (if you include pre-evos and the new 5th gen pokes)!

They won't include them all, and they shouldn't for stuff like Normal/Grass, but it's interesting what kind of concepts can be made now with the map.

Perhaps a Rock/Ice for a Mountain Goat? Since we're almost guaranteed two Fossils, they can use this opportunity to make Rock/Dragon, Rock/Fighting, etc.

Maybe a Bug/Fire in the beginning? Although in the end it'll probably suck because it's BST will be low. It's fun thinking of ideas for new types.
 
Ulevo said:
Kinda like how everyone knew that Rhyperior and Electivire would shape the metagame in DP, and how Heatran would be terrible because it's 4x weak to Ground type, amirite?
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buzz was so good at gen 2 and 3, its to be expected a evolution that is imune(and get boosted) to eletric moves(t-wave too) would be top tier, i never got the rypherior hyper though.

people always forget about what types the pokemon resist and only care about the types he is weak to, what caused this to heatran.

only way to know for sure is to wait for the gen 5 metagame to start and become stable, then we will know if Zoroark ability will be broken or not.(i just know=i think that).
 
Lucalibur said:
buzz was so good at gen 2 and 3, its to be expected a evolution that is imune(and get boosted) to eletric moves(t-wave too) would be top tier, i never got the rypherior hyper though.

people always forget about what types the pokemon resist and only care about the types he is weak to, what caused this to heatran.

only way to know for sure is to wait for the gen 5 metagame to start and become stable, then we will know if Zoroark ability will be broken or not.(i just know=i think that).
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*sigh* Makes me wish I could have been here for the Gen IV news.
Sounds like a lot of people were let down :p
 
I actually think Pokemon with an ability that gives them an immunity are prime candidates for Zoroark's Illusion, mostly because even though you won't be able to switch in on those moves, once you're in, you likely won't have to worry about those moves being used, since your opponent might believe you have the ability regardless, if they're not expect a Zoroark. This can let you influence your opponent's prediction some-- if they're not using a certain type of move on your switch that they might have used normally, predicting what Pokemon you'd bring in, you can get certain Pokemon in easier to outspeed and kill next turn, I'd think. That's how I could imagine things going down. But that's terribly situational. Then again, if they're that good to predict that, then they can probably figure out that the Pokemon your first sent out was a Zoroark since you didn't take advantage of the Illusion's normal ability, so I guess my point is moot.
 
blasphemy1 said:
You're telling me that you don't build your teams with each Pokemon in mind?! This is basic team building...
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Not exactly what I mean. I mean that Zoroark's potential synergy is extremely limited. What if you need to send out that second Pokemon before using Zoroark? Zoroark loses it's novelty. What if Zoroark is needed to counter something the second Pokemon in your party could never counter? You've revealed two Pokemon for one. Basically, Zoroark has to be given the right moves and EVs to get around both of these, along with things like Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and it ultimately hurts most teams.
 
Zoroark's ability sounds really promising. You could probably really easily screw with people when using him, but you'd have to be smart due to the line up thing. Oh well though; we won't have a really good grasp on how to use it until it comes out.

Oh, unrelated, but earlier in this thread someone linked to something on a wiki page relating to folklore/mythology about some sort of ghost-cat idea for a normal/ghost pokemon. Does anyone know what I'm talking about or what it's called? I just can't remember where it is.
 
no one in they right mind would switch a snorlax into a Lucario right? my ass, zoroark show up with illusion, outspeed and ohko with focus blast/close combat/brick break/whatever gamefreak gave to him.

but then this strategy become common so Lucario start to use extremespeed right after SD instead of CC right? but what if i am using the REAL pokemon instead of zoroark? snorlax survived extremespeed and ohkoed with EQ.
 
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