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Terrakion
- Thread starter Ditto
- Start date
76.13-89.43% with Max attack Guts
well guts was included and it is super effective
also how come no double dancer set? that is the best thing about terrakion, his coverage options are poor and he is much better off with a set of:
- Sword dance
- Rock Polish
- Stone edge
- Close combat
the idea is not to use both, that would be silly. The idea is that you can choose which one you want to use, based on what pokemon the opponent has left, if your scouting is good, then this set will tear through opposing teams. Jolly nature, is my suggestion for when you use sword dance, so you outpace garchomp, but adamant works I guess.
Slowbro sounds like a slightly better check to Terakion than Gliscor.
Terakion +2 Stone Edge- (67.7%-79.6%) Guaranteed 2hko
Terakion +2 Close Combat-(40.6%-47.7%) 3hko, 2hko if there is sand and Stealth Rock on the field.
Man, this guy is so strong, I'm not sure how many teams with deal with him. Dual screens may be an idea though, with something like hippowdon behind it.
However, Boil Over only 2hko's it so Slowbro will probably lose anyways. :/
Terakion +2 Stone Edge- (67.7%-79.6%) Guaranteed 2hko
Terakion +2 Close Combat-(40.6%-47.7%) 3hko, 2hko if there is sand and Stealth Rock on the field.
Man, this guy is so strong, I'm not sure how many teams with deal with him. Dual screens may be an idea though, with something like hippowdon behind it.
However, Boil Over only 2hko's it so Slowbro will probably lose anyways. :/
Terrakion needs suspect testing along with some others once all the stuff with rain is done. In my experience, there are 2 ways to stop him.
1. Make him use stone edge and hope it misses. As he 2HKOs a lot of his "counters" and they can also 2HKO him back, a miss is costly.
2. Send in something that he 2HKOs and weakening him. Then send in something faster to finish him.
If the opponent's team is well built, he doesn't sweep it entirely. But what he does do is take down at least 1 pokemon who is generally the physical wall and opens up the team for pokemon that actually can sweep like dory.
1. Make him use stone edge and hope it misses. As he 2HKOs a lot of his "counters" and they can also 2HKO him back, a miss is costly.
2. Send in something that he 2HKOs and weakening him. Then send in something faster to finish him.
If the opponent's team is well built, he doesn't sweep it entirely. But what he does do is take down at least 1 pokemon who is generally the physical wall and opens up the team for pokemon that actually can sweep like dory.
I wouldn't nominate Terakion for its ability to crush walls for Doryuuzu and die; I'd nominate him because he sweeps teams. It's not as easy for him to do when he's weak to so many things, which limits his setup opportunities, but his Double Dancer set is extremely potent and I often have a hard time taking him down before he brings something down on my team.
I wouldn't support any kind of Suspect nomination for him right now or anywhere in the near future for the sole fact that he's in the company of worse. Assuming Drizzle and Manaphy get the boot, we still have a ways to go. Latios, for example, is an awful monster that needs to be removed from the metagame as soon as possible. Doryuuzu is controversial as always and will probably remain that way until some serious supporters rise up in favor of it being banned.
I'm sure there's more, but I'm not even thinking about Terakion in a metagame where Latios shits on everything.
I wouldn't support any kind of Suspect nomination for him right now or anywhere in the near future for the sole fact that he's in the company of worse. Assuming Drizzle and Manaphy get the boot, we still have a ways to go. Latios, for example, is an awful monster that needs to be removed from the metagame as soon as possible. Doryuuzu is controversial as always and will probably remain that way until some serious supporters rise up in favor of it being banned.
I'm sure there's more, but I'm not even thinking about Terakion in a metagame where Latios shits on everything.
Problem is Terakion's best coverage options are EQ and X-Scissor, so if you don't know if its set you risk being 2HKOd by a CB set or a SD one using X-Scissor even with max Def. Regeneration helps him prevent an OHKO though.
Another way to deal with him is to predict his attacks and switch accordingly, dealing LO recoil and CC defence drops while avoiding taking too much damage if you have resists to both. You can then take him out with a weaker attack once some recoil is done - Roobushin does excellently against -1 Def Tera with Mach Punch, almost always KOing after you've lured a CC and one other attack for LO recoil.
Personally I would be using leftovers or balloon instead of LO. LO doesn't change any 2HKOs into OHKOs except with bronzong. Balloon can help deal with a lot that would otherwise counter him. Leftovers on something bulky like terrakion is also pretty effective.
Actually, LO is essential for him to be able to threaten to 2HKO counters such as Slowbro, Gliscor, and Hippowdon - without it the power drop is significant and detrimental, but I would most certainly run SD on a Balloon set to counteract this, at least.
I'd agree with SJ that at least at present Terakion is the lesser of many evils. When Latios is still around, a lot of things look like minor problems in comparison...
I usually SD on my first entry, mashing the usual defensive counters (Gliscor, etc.).
then i use my vaporeon to wishpass, agility against the incoming fast revengers (that expect a SD) and win. I just love the Double Dancer set.
By the way, if you can save the Baloon, this guy a really good Exca counter/check, resisting or being immune to every attack it has.
then i use my vaporeon to wishpass, agility against the incoming fast revengers (that expect a SD) and win. I just love the Double Dancer set.
By the way, if you can save the Baloon, this guy a really good Exca counter/check, resisting or being immune to every attack it has.
Well Slowbro is outright beaten by any running CB and X-Scissor, and Dory is beaten by balloon users, as below. But together, yes, they do make a nice pairing. The problem comes if you switch Dory into a double dancer on the RP, as it will proceed to either kill you or SD as you send in Slowbro, enabling a 2HKO with SE. Predicting it and its set is the problem here.
Yeah, seen quite a few RMTs using Balloon Terakion as an Exca/Dory check. I don't think it's a bad option at all, you just have to be aware of what the power drop means you cannot beat.
80.4-95.4%. Since SR only does 6%, it's barely enough to stand a chance of KOing. Standard Roobushin does slightly worse, however, even with Guts active, but due to resisting SE it can beat it more easily by actually being able to switch in.
Can Terakion's inevitable Close Combat OHKO Conkeldurr?
Yes, +2 LO Jolly CC OHKOs 252 HP Conklehurrdurr or whatever his stupid new name is easily. Only at 252/252 and with bold can it possibly survive, but even then it's 50/50. I mentioned earlier that you can beat Tera with his Mach punch by luring the CC on something else, switching to a resist (preferably Flying to lure SE) then taking the SE on Conk, before OHKOing due to LO recoil and the CC defence drop, even if not statused to activate Guts.
Techniloom is not released, no.
Did you just assume that or do you have dmg calcs to back it up? I already did a bunch of calcs when I was talking about Terrakion in the suspect thread so I know what I'm talking about when I say he 2HKOs everything already without needing LO.
Jolly +2 Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Slowbro: 55.8-65.7%
Jolly +2 Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Gliscor: 56.8-66.9%
Jolly +2 Close Combat vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 59.5-70.2%
LO is really nothing but a liability for something like Terrakion as not many things can OHKO him outright at full HP and you're generally forced to sacrifice one of your physical walls and then revenge kill him.
Wow.
How does Bold 252 HP/252 Def Skarm fare against a +2 CC?
You could at least phaze him or something x_x
I did indeed do a bunch of calcs, but it seems they were the wrong ones - I was looking at switching into resisted moves instead >_>. In any case, you were right, however LO does ease prediction - as with it you can beat your example of counters with a SE-CC or vice versa, whereas without it the resisted attack doesn't do enough damage to get a KO in.
But fair play, LO is probably more significant in ensuring OHKOs than 2HKOs for any SD set, in general.
Also, no item +2 SE does 55-65% on Skarm, and +2 CC does 66-78%. With a LO +2 CC does 86-101%. But yeah, it can be phazed by Skarm if need be.
Definitely not ubers, but if people start noticing that Terakion can 2hko the universe then OU is going to be a dangerous tier indeed. *.*
Best way to beat Terakion is to stack CC defense drops till the point where you can OHKO them with a bulky pokemon like Gliscor, Slowbro, or Hippo.
Best way to beat Terakion is to stack CC defense drops till the point where you can OHKO them with a bulky pokemon like Gliscor, Slowbro, or Hippo.
Problem with that is that you have to convince the Terakion user that CC is their best option and then absorb it, meaning that with a mispredict you'll end up losing a 'mon and even with a good predict you'll end up taking a hefty chunk of damage. Even worse, there's always the possibility that Terakion will just switch and set up again later with no ill effects due to its SR 2x immunity. That's pretty brutal. Not saying it's uber, just very, very strong.