-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
- Start date
- Status
On the subject of tangela...
Tangela @ Evolution Stone
Ability: Regeneration
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 Def / 252 SDef
Leech Seed
Amnesia
Tickle
Bind/Protect/Toxic
I've personally used this set to success. Evo stone tangela is bulky enough to take many physical hits (leech seed avoids being 2HKO'd by Jolly LO Landlos' +2 Earthquake). After one Amnesia boost, timid Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor is dealing 50.9% - 60.1%, which is easily recovered with leech seed+protect if you stay in or regeneration should you switch. Timid Specs Starmie's Ice Beam deals even less (39.1% - 46.5%).
Now the set is to be used with toxic spikes support (or with toxic in the last moveslot if you aren't doing that). Bind takes on residual damage on poisoned and seeded opponents for at least three turns even when tangrowth isn't attacking. It also prevents switch spamming to reset toxic counters or burn your leech seed pp. However, protect allows tangela to live for much longer if the opponent is seeded, as with his crappy hp, he'll be restoring a good deal from most of his opponents.
Tickle? Why tickle? Tickle does the complete opposite of bind; tickle forces switches. Physcial boosters and tanks won't be able to touch tangela as you heal with leech seed+protect and will be forced to get out of there, which allows you to pile on more damage hazards on your stall team. Or they can stay in while recover the off of leech seed.
The best part is that if anything goes wrong, your opponent will have to contend with a healthy tangela later on in the match. Although they may be hard pressed to allow you another amnesia the second time around.
Alternatively, this set can be run under the sun with leaf gaurd. Running leaf gaurd gives you status immunity and allows you to use synthesis as another way of healing yourself. Yes, tangrowth can do this, but tangela has better special bulk.
Tangela @ Evolution Stone
Ability: Regeneration
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 Def / 252 SDef
Leech Seed
Amnesia
Tickle
Bind/Protect/Toxic
I've personally used this set to success. Evo stone tangela is bulky enough to take many physical hits (leech seed avoids being 2HKO'd by Jolly LO Landlos' +2 Earthquake). After one Amnesia boost, timid Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor is dealing 50.9% - 60.1%, which is easily recovered with leech seed+protect if you stay in or regeneration should you switch. Timid Specs Starmie's Ice Beam deals even less (39.1% - 46.5%).
Now the set is to be used with toxic spikes support (or with toxic in the last moveslot if you aren't doing that). Bind takes on residual damage on poisoned and seeded opponents for at least three turns even when tangrowth isn't attacking. It also prevents switch spamming to reset toxic counters or burn your leech seed pp. However, protect allows tangela to live for much longer if the opponent is seeded, as with his crappy hp, he'll be restoring a good deal from most of his opponents.
Tickle? Why tickle? Tickle does the complete opposite of bind; tickle forces switches. Physcial boosters and tanks won't be able to touch tangela as you heal with leech seed+protect and will be forced to get out of there, which allows you to pile on more damage hazards on your stall team. Or they can stay in while recover the off of leech seed.
The best part is that if anything goes wrong, your opponent will have to contend with a healthy tangela later on in the match. Although they may be hard pressed to allow you another amnesia the second time around.
Alternatively, this set can be run under the sun with leaf gaurd. Running leaf gaurd gives you status immunity and allows you to use synthesis as another way of healing yourself. Yes, tangrowth can do this, but tangela has better special bulk.
Just to let you know, the most efficient EV spread in terms of overall bulk for Clefable can be found with X-Acts calc. 252 HP/200Def/56 SpDef with a +SpDef nature will get you slightly more bulk for your buck than your present set. I'd advise against a Def lowering nature when you can cut your speed instead to let Copycat go after more things. Higher HP will also help you pass much larger wishes.
EDIT @ Alphatron: I think Bind now lasts 4-5 turns, so you get slightly more damage than you thought :P. Also, I'd be wary of completely dismissing Sub for Protect or any other move on a Seeding set as any special attacker that gets a crit on you will completely destroy him. Aside from that, the set looks pretty cool though (but ofc you'd need something to deal with Grass types).
This could work against walls who think of Hypno as a specially defensive poke, or just don't know what it does at all, crippling them. But aren't the speed EV's better spent on HP, seeing as Hypno'll only Trick away its Scarf and then has no real use for the speed anymore, and the HP EV's can really help its walling capabilities.
So, the Rechargeable Battery is a one-use item, right? If so, I might have a nice set here:
Sceptile@Rechargeable Battery
Unburden
Adamant nature
252Atk/252Spd/4Def
-Swords Dance
-Leaf Blade
-Acrobat
-Rock Slide
Switch into a (weak) electric attack, get +1 Atk, +2 Spd, and a possibility of getting up to +3 Atk on the switch, reaching 738Atk and 678Spd (If my calculations are correct) with a STABed Leaf Blade and powered up Acrobat.
This set is reliant on your opponent having an electric attack, so you might want to give Sceptile one of the Jewels, but I don't know if it'll have enough power.
I kind of like this one. The huge downside here is that Sceptile's attacking stat is kind of low and steels will always wall him. There's earthquake or brick break for that though, I guess. I would say that steels could be eliminated before trying this, but steels are everywhere. A special set with bulb and a 4th attack over Sword's Dance could potentially work as well.
Another poke could handle them, or I could put some EVs into Tangela's sp. atk and run HP Fire. Substitute would definitely help a lot when it comes down to critical hits, but I avoided it due to Tangela's poor hp and the fact that tangrowth would probably do it a lot better. I'll give it a shot though.
Barujiina (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Dustproof
EVs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 130 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psych Up
- Dark Pulse
- Whirlwind
- Roost
Yes, the EV spread is really crude, but I've used it, and it works good enough. This Pokemon takes attacks better than you would imagine for a bird. It can Roost off damage as Sandstorm (Dustproof makes it immune) and/or Toxic Spikes rack up damage on the opponent. It can also phaze Pokemon for entry hazard damage. The best thing about it is that it can Psych Up on Calm Mind Rankurusu, Birijion, Lati@s, and Manaphy, and then send them flying away with nothing. It's best used on a stall oriented team, especially since it doesn't particularly mind facing Espeon and Xatu.
Latias can run a very similar set with Roar and Dragon Pulse, but its weaknesses (particularly Ghost, Bug, and Dark) and lack of immunity to Sandstorm may want to make you reconsider using it over Barujina.
EDIT: Yes, I am missing some EVs, MKDSJedi. Thanks. Added 4 to special defense.
Yes, that was something I thought of as well, although I mainly had Skarmory in mind, so I chose for Rock Slide in the end. However, now that you mention it, Brick Break may be the superior choice.
This set was made back when 5th gen metagame had just started for the WiFi tier, so a little editting to it will probably be necessary, but here-goes anyway:
Empoleon @ Life Orb
Torrent
212 Atk | 252 SpAtk | 44 Spe
Lonely Nature [+Attack, -Defense]
- Aqua Jet
- Boil Over/Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
This is my semi-mixed Empoleon for Gen 5. I use it on a sand team as to cover up Ice/Water weaknesses and because it helps kill both opposing Sand threats and things like Burungeru and stuff. Anyway, let's get into the EVs we have:
44 Speed outruns 0 Speed Scizor.
252 SpAtk is obviously maxed SpAtk
212 Atk is the remaining stuff supplemented by the Lonely Nature to do high damage with Aqua Jet, a powerful move in this metagame.
For some power examples here's some calcs:
Aqua Jet VS 0/0 Doryuuzu: 287 Atk vs 156 Def & 361 HP (40 Base Power): 204 - 242 (56.5% - 67%)
Torrent VS 0/0 Doryuuzu: 287 Atk vs 156 Def & 361 HP (60 Base Power): 308 - 366 (85.3% - 101.4%)
Aqua Jet VS 0/0 Landlos: 287 Atk vs 215 Def & 318 HP (40 Base Power): 150 - 176 (47.17% - 55.35%)
Torrent vs 0/0 Landlos: 287 Atk vs 215 Def & 318 HP (60 Base Power): 224 - 266 (70.44% - 83.65%)
Aqua Jet VS 0/0 Urugamosu: 287 Atk vs 166 Def & 311 HP (40 Base Power): 198 - 234 (63.67% - 75.24%)
Torrent VS 0/0 Urugamosu: 287 Atk vs 166 Def & 311 HP (60 Base Power): 290 - 344 (93.25% - 110.61%)
Boil Over VS 248/8 Scizor: 321 Atk vs 198 Def & 343 HP (80 Base Power): 181 - 214 (52.77% - 62.39%)
Torrent vs 248/8 Scizor: 321 Atk vs 198 Def & 343 HP (120 Base Power): 271 - 321 (79.01% - 93.59%)
Aqua Jet VS 248/0 Scizor: 287 Atk vs 236 Def & 343 HP (40 Base Power): 67 - 81 (19.53% - 23.62%)
Torrent VS 248/0 Scizor: 287 Atk vs 236 Def & 343 HP (60 Base Power): 102 - 121 (29.74% - 35.28%)
Boil Over vs 252/0 Roobushin: 321 Atk vs 166 Def & 414 HP (80 Base Power): 216 - 255 (52.17% - 61.59%)
Torrent vs 252/0 Roopushin: 321 Atk vs 166 Def & 414 HP (120 Base Power): 322 - 381 (77.78% - 92.03%)
Aqua Jet vs 252/0 Roopushin: 287 Atk vs 226 Def & 414 HP (40 Base Power): 72 - 85 (17.39% - 20.53%)
Torrent vs 252/0 Roopushin: 287 Atk vs 226 Def & 414 HP (60 Base Power): 108 - 127 (26.09% - 30.68%)
Aqua Jet vs Deoxys-A: 287 Atk vs 76 Def & 241 HP (40 Base Power): 211 - 249 (87.55% - 103.32%)
Grass Knot vs 252/0 Burungeru: 321 Atk vs 246 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 244 - 288 (60.40% - 71.29%)
Grass Knot vs 252/252 Burungeru: 321 Atk vs 339 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 178 - 210 (44.06% - 51.98%)
Ice Beam vs 0/0 Latios: 321 Atk vs 256 Def & 301 HP (95 Base Power): 224 - 264 (74.42% - 87.71%)
Aqua Jet vs 0/0 Latios: 287 Atk vs 196 Def & 301 HP (40 Base Power): 42 - 49 (13.95% - 16.28%)
Torrent vs 0/0 Latios: 287 Atk vs 196 Def & 301 HP (60 Base Power): 61 - 72 (20.27% - 23.92%)
Aqua Jet vs 0/0 Heatran: 287 Atk vs 248 Def & 323 HP (40 Base Power): 132 - 156 (40.87% - 48.30%)
Torrent vs 0/0 Heatran: 287 Atk vs 248 Def & 323 HP (60 Base Power): 198 - 234 (61.30% - 72.45%)
Boil Over vs 0/0 Heatran: 321 Atk vs 248 Def & 323 HP (80 Base Power): 288 - 342 (89.16% - 105.88%)
Boil Over vs 0/0 Terakion (in Sand):321 Atk vs 324 Def & 323 HP (80 Base Power): 222 - 264 (68.73% - 81.73%)
Torrent vs Terakion: 321 Atk vs 324 Def & 323 HP (120 Base Power): 332 - 392 (102.79% - 121.36%)
Aqua Jet vs 0/0 Terakion: 287 Atk vs 216 Def & 323 HP (40 Base Power): 150 - 176 (46.44% - 54.49%)
Torrent vs 0/0 Terakion: 287 Atk vs 216 Def & 323 HP (60 Base Power): 222 - 264 (68.73% - 81.73%)
Aqua Jet vs 0/0 Terakion after CC: 287 Atk vs 144 Def & 323 HP (40 Base Power): 222 - 264 (68.73% - 81.73%)
Torrent vs 0/0 Terakion after CC: 287 Atk vs 144 Def & 323 HP (60 Base Power): 336 - 396 (104.02% - 122.60%)
Aqua Jet vs 0/0 Shandera: 287 Atk vs 216 Def & 261 HP (40 Base Power): 150 - 176 (57.47% - 67.43%)
Torrent vs 0/0 Shandera: 287 Atk vs 216 Def & 261 HP (60 Base Power): 222 - 264 (85.06% - 101.15%)
Gah too many calcs.
Basically this guy checks tons of metagame threats, including one that most people bring in to beat it, Burungeru. I suppose people think it's light because it's a ghost or something despite it being 135 kg, meaning almost 300 lbs. If anyone has suggestions for superior EV spread or something I'd be more than willing to listen, or alternative movesets.
Barujiina (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Dustproof
EVs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psych Up
- Dark Pulse
- Whirlwind
- Roost
Yes, the EV spread is really crude, but I've used it, and it works good enough. This Pokemon takes attacks better than you would imagine for a bird. It can Roost off damage as Sandstorm (Dustproof makes it immune) and/or Toxic Spikes rack up damage on the opponent. It can also phaze Pokemon for entry hazard damage. The best thing about it is that it can Psych Up on Calm Mind Rankurusu, Birijion, Lati@s, and Manaphy, and then send them flying away with nothing. It's best used on a stall oriented team, especially since it doesn't particularly mind facing Espeon and Xatu.
Latias can run a very similar set with Roar and Dragon Pulse, but its weaknesses (particularly Ghost, Bug, and Dark) and lack of immunity to Sandstorm may want to make you reconsider using it over Barujina.
Aren't you wasting 8 EVs?
Awesome, thanks man.
I did opt for the Relaxed nature before, i just found it annoying that I would copy a few speed boosts and still be outsped by the majority of other pokemon - having a crit land on a pokemon that can KO almost anything is annoying, so removing the possibility is preferred. It's a similar problem for Brave, really, you want to be able to copy some SDs and then throw their attacks back, but you're still doing very little. Neutral natures deny you the necessary physical bulk.
I think i'll go back to Relaxed, Copycat actually works better when you're faster because it means you're not missing out on Substitutes or copying unwanted U-Turns, but the immediate bulk is more appreciated.
Sorry Enlong, missed that set, but I actually really like it. Sub passing is awesome at the worst of times, but when your inducer can do it whilst recovering the sub health it's even better.
The main issue I see is that it forces you to rely on the mindgame of if you'll use Sub or U-Turn when you come in on something you can force out, as this could deplete his health more rapidly than it can be recovered if your opponent calls your bluff (though with Lefties this may not matter). Being able to safely U-Turn out of Latis which may switch in is pretty awesome too.
Edit @ Ciaran: That Empoleon set would convince more if it had calcs to show it can take a hit from things like Dory to get down to Torrent range, so you can grab the OHKO, rather than the damage output ones. I suppose that using Endure wouldn't be too bad an idea to fully counter Terakion/Dory as he'd be switching into a boosting move most of the time, but obviously his coverage would be hurt. The premise seems very cool though, especially as his 4x Water resist can help wall Kingdra.
Your first set you show in the OP is a Curse, White Herb Crobat with Steel Wing for coverage. Steel Wing goes so well with Acrobat for coverage of course, hitting those Rock types and still being resisted by Electric and Steel. Not to mention that the entire gimmick fails if your opponent has an electric or steel type, or, god help you, Magnezone.
That said, I will be posting numerous sets in this thread and will be commenting on a number of them. I recommend either removing the Crobat set from the OP or removing/rewording the "rule".
I'm not so sure that this calculation is correct. My changes are in bold:
Doryuzuu has base 110 hp, giving it 110*2+110+31=361 HP. Defense is also one point higher, for whatever reason. Damage was right, percents was not.
Doryuzuu has base 110 hp, giving it 110*2+110+31=361 HP. Defense is also one point higher, for whatever reason. Damage was right, percents was not.
Kojondo @Life Orb/Leftovers (Regenerate)
(Still don't know from EV distribution, sorry) Jolly
Hi Jump Kick
U-Turn
Substitute
Baton Pass
That actually looks amazing. Infinite subs? Yes, please. Probably Leftovers should be the main slash as otherwise even with Regeneration Konjodo dies too quickly. I'd say a fast, bulky EV spread.
Now for my set.
Doryuuzu @ Choice Band
Sand Power
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Earthquake
Rock Slide
X-Scissor
Return
It's not a sweeper, but it hits like a nuke.
I must have mistyped it into the calculator. thanks for the correction.
Interesting Excadrill set. Unfortunately, it's pretty slow, and one of the main reasons it's so dangerous is Sand Throw.
I think I'll throw out one of my own:
Excadrill@Leftovers
Sand Power
Impish
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Swords Dance
I use this on my hail team. It's a great spinner that can also be a major offensive threat very, very quickly. It also resists Rock, which is kinda important on a hail team for a spinner.
I think I'll throw out one of my own:
Excadrill@Leftovers
Sand Power
Impish
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Swords Dance
I use this on my hail team. It's a great spinner that can also be a major offensive threat very, very quickly. It also resists Rock, which is kinda important on a hail team for a spinner.
Steel Wing may be less than Ideal in terms of coverage, but you seem to forget Super Fang which can still do decent damage to those that resist Acrobat. Even if your White Herb is gone and you switch out, Acrobat will still be at 110 Base Power, it still has Taunt / Super Fang, (which are VERY useful tools, against Stall especially) so it doesn't become dead weight when you switch out against something that isn't hit by Acrobat or Steel Wing.
There's still no reason to ever run Curse/White Herb, giving up both your item and a moveslot for a one time attack and defense boost.. Give me one situation where Curse/White Herb would ever be a good option over some other option.
It's practically the definition of a gimmick.
It's practically the definition of a gimmick.
Ah, but the end result is the same, yes? I can have Kojondo Baton Pass a small Substitute to let something glass cannony get his foot in the door, and then he can come back in and heal off the Substitute damage, then do it all over again.
In fact, let me go ahead and try to cobble up a moveset:
Kojondo @Life Orb/Leftovers (Regenerate)
(Still don't know from EV distribution, sorry) Jolly
Hi Jump Kick
U-Turn
Substitute
Baton Pass
Kojondo retains his main attacks (HJK for sheer damage, U-Turn for the trollish ability to switch out and get Regenerate active), but in this set, he can send Substitutes to teammates that need that extra protection to switch in safely. Sadly, his low HP means that that's all his substitutes can do, since they won't take too many hits. But for, say a Gengar that wants to come in, that's all that's needed. As an added bonus, he's the only 'mon out there that has Baton Pass, Substitute, and Regenerate, which means he can keep coming back to do it again. Regenearte heals for 1/3rd max health, which is more than a single Substitute takes away.
Alternate setups: you can give him a Salac/Leichi/Petaya Berry if you like, let him sub down to berry range, and pass another boost alongside the Substitute. Then he comes in later with his HP regenerated.
The problem is, what happens when they break your sub? A slower sustitute user might actually serve you better. If you're faster, you use substitute, they hit it and break it, and you've gained nothing. If you're slower, they hit you or whatever, you use substitute and you have a sub. Then they either break your sub or they don't, and you use baton pass and your sweeper is in regardless. I like the regeneration idea, and therefore nominate (copy/paste):
Kojofo @Prevo Stone (Regenerate)
Impish 252 Def/252 SD/ 4 Attack
U-Turn
Substitute
Baton Pass
Cheer Up/Bulk Up/Calm Mind/Taunt
It reaches 327 Defense and 298 SD, and 231 HP. It should have the defenses to take a hit, sub, then switch out. HP number divisable by 3. you make 57 HP subs and regain 77 HP on the switch, +20. HJK was removed because now you don't have an attack stat. The three stat boosters are there because you are a baton passer, after all, and taunt is to prevent phazing.
Well?
I think that the idea was to force a mindgame with your opponent like with U-Turn normally, if you come in on something that's hit hard by U-Turn/Hi-Jump, namely - should I stay in and risk dying to break the Sub, or should I switch out and risk the free U-turn or now the free Sub pass?
Basically it gives you the advantage of being able to choose to attack, U-Turn to something else to take the hit, or see their switch as you Sub and let something else in safely by passing it (as opposed to fast U-turning and letting them get hit).
Nonetheless your set looks pretty awesome too, though I think Cheer Up would work less well that CM/BU/Taunt.
A spinner with a 4x rock resist sounds great and the idea of Excadrill on a hail team is pretty interesting. But sadly, isn't he also giving you at least a 1/3rd fighting team weakness? I suppose this can be covered by using Moltres, or better yet, a shinpora or something.
Here's something I ran back when I tried out rain. It was pretty decent.
Scizor @ Occa Berry
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 212 hp / 252 atk / 40 SDef
Sword's Dance/Agility
Acrobat
Bullet Punch
Superpower/Brick Break
Rain+Occa Berry=A scizor who takes nuetral damage from fire attacks. Technician acrobat? Why not. It's technically a STAB flying (not sure why the hell Scyther doesn't learn Acrobat...) attack that gets doubled power once your Occa berry gets used up. Despite lacking priority, acrobat hits 165 power on Scizor, is stronger than bug bite, and is still hitting grass types for SE damage while gaining an SE attack on the popular fighting types who have appeared. You lose an SE stab against psychic types, but a nuetral acrobat is stronger than an SE u-turn and bug bite is only 15 points stronger. Even in the rain, getting Scizor to attract a fire attack is easy.
Superpower with Sword's Dance is obvious. With slight speed investment to outspeed the base 108 pokemon, agility (and brick break over superpower) can be used over sword's dance to outspeed things that may try to switch in on you, like infernape, blaziken, heatran, and the musketeer trio (you also get an SE move for Virizion and more importantly, Kerudio once he is released). Roost can be used for survivability, but it gets you walled, so I haven't slashed it in.
It capitalizes on what Crobat does best - taunt. Usually it taunts and pretty much runs away for something else to benefit, but when it taunts something like Nattorei, it doesn't have to switch out. It can take the opportunity to do some damage by using Curse on the switch and having an attack and defense boost, and a full power Acrobat to deal some serious damage with. So, it can take advantage of what it usually does for other pokemon, instead of switching out. The best part is that you still have the power of Brave Bird without recoil, taunt, and super fang even if you switch out of the boost. Thus. It can be seen as arguably better than some other sets Crobat can run.
How does that sound like a gimmick? Does it have it's flaws? Of course. Is it a gimmick? No.
@ Alphatron
Unfortunately, the power is doubled before the Technician boost. So it's not a base 165 power move, it's only a base 110 move. Furthermore, I would put something like a Balloon on Scizor and switch it into a resisted hit, because it's not certain that the Occa Berry will be consumed, especially because Rain teams punish many fire-types and users of fire moves.
Also, @ Kojondo vs Kojofu conversation
Both have merits and both have shortcomings. Kojondo will have the sub broken the first turn, due to its fast, but frail nature, but Kojofu will have its sub broken the next turn, because it is going to be slower on the baton pass. Overall, though, I'd use Kojofu. I'm most likely going to have a few speed boosts, especially if its in a baton pass chain, and Kojofu is just so much more bulky. But Baton Passing has never been one of the best strategies, and it definitely has its flaws. I probably wouldn't put it on my team just for infinite subs, because most pokemon can have a sub up anyway. There is no reason to need infinite subs.
I'd like to repost a a few sets that haven't received any comments yet
Sceptile @ Bulb / Balloon
252 SAtk / 148 Atk / 108 Spd
Mild
Unburden
--Leaf Storm
--Dragon Pulse
--Acrobat
--Thunderpunch
This is one of the hardest rain counters there is, but is also a great set-up pokemon outside of rain. It shouldn't be too hard to lure in a Water move (especially from a Rain team), and the Water move will raise Sceptile's Special Attack. Still, if you want to be sure that Sceptile will work on non-rain teams, you can use Balloon and switch in on a weak move. With 108 Speed EVs, you are faster than all rain abusers (besides the rare Floatzel, Lumineon, and Luvdisc) and Doryuuzu. From here, with +1 SAtk, you can begin to sweep the opponent. Leaf Storm is strong STAB, but it lowers your SAtk, so it should only be used if necessary (such as on pokemon like Manaphy). The other moves have great coverage and hit many Rain abusers (Dragon Pulse is for Kingdra, Acrobat is for Ludicolo, Thunderpunch is for anyone else).
Interesting, for both of the sets. I'd like to hear some comments from others, but I would definitely throw Trick onto the last set.
EDIT:
And @ Supreme Dirt, the Crobat set isn't a Gimmick. It's a set-up Crobat. After one turn, Crobat gains a nice, powerful STAB move and a +1 boost in both attack and defense. It's not a gimmick at all. It's very similar to any Shell Smash set utilizing White Herb, only this one takes advantage of the lost item. Super Fang can help with the coverage problem as stated before.
Unfortunately, the power is doubled before the Technician boost. So it's not a base 165 power move, it's only a base 110 move. Furthermore, I would put something like a Balloon on Scizor and switch it into a resisted hit, because it's not certain that the Occa Berry will be consumed, especially because Rain teams punish many fire-types and users of fire moves.
Also, @ Kojondo vs Kojofu conversation
Both have merits and both have shortcomings. Kojondo will have the sub broken the first turn, due to its fast, but frail nature, but Kojofu will have its sub broken the next turn, because it is going to be slower on the baton pass. Overall, though, I'd use Kojofu. I'm most likely going to have a few speed boosts, especially if its in a baton pass chain, and Kojofu is just so much more bulky. But Baton Passing has never been one of the best strategies, and it definitely has its flaws. I probably wouldn't put it on my team just for infinite subs, because most pokemon can have a sub up anyway. There is no reason to need infinite subs.
I'd like to repost a a few sets that haven't received any comments yet
I actually really like this set, Barujiina is a terror defensively. But I don't see a need for both Psych Up and Whirlwind on the same set. Psych Up copies boost, Whirlwind erases them. I'd replace Psych Up with either Air Slash or Toxic. Any thoughts on this one?
Barujiina (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Dustproof
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psych Up
- Dark Pulse
- Whirlwind
- Roost
This set is extremely situational, and really can't be pulled off in real life. It is reliant on the foe having an electric attack, you predicting it, and you predicting that the foe will switch out. But a similar set can be used as a hard counter against rain teams.
Sceptile @ Bulb / Balloon
252 SAtk / 148 Atk / 108 Spd
Mild
Unburden
--Leaf Storm
--Dragon Pulse
--Acrobat
--Thunderpunch
This is one of the hardest rain counters there is, but is also a great set-up pokemon outside of rain. It shouldn't be too hard to lure in a Water move (especially from a Rain team), and the Water move will raise Sceptile's Special Attack. Still, if you want to be sure that Sceptile will work on non-rain teams, you can use Balloon and switch in on a weak move. With 108 Speed EVs, you are faster than all rain abusers (besides the rare Floatzel, Lumineon, and Luvdisc) and Doryuuzu. From here, with +1 SAtk, you can begin to sweep the opponent. Leaf Storm is strong STAB, but it lowers your SAtk, so it should only be used if necessary (such as on pokemon like Manaphy). The other moves have great coverage and hit many Rain abusers (Dragon Pulse is for Kingdra, Acrobat is for Ludicolo, Thunderpunch is for anyone else).
Interesting, for both of the sets. I'd like to hear some comments from others, but I would definitely throw Trick onto the last set.
Kingdra has some useful resistances and great bulk. That being said, this is not the best set for a tanking Kingdra. A supporting Kingdra would be much better with something like Yawn or Toxic (and Boiling Water). That gives me the ida to have a set-up Kingdra that can use DDance after forcing out the opponent with Yawn.
So this set similar to this was posted a while back, and I made some changes to it, but I want to see what you think of the new version:
Garchomp @ Leftovers / Rugged Helmet / Yache Berry
Rough Skin
Jolly
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
--Swords Dance
--Dragon Tail
--Rest
--Sleep Talk
So, the main idea of this is to Swords Dance until you are low on health. At that point, you can Rest to heal yourself and put yourself to sleep. Then you use Sleep Talk to alternate between Swords Dance and Dragon Tail. The only thing is, if Sleep Talk is used, then Dragon Tail loses its negative priority, meaning that it becomes an incredibly fast phazing move. Additionally, it becomes twice as powerful each time because of the Swords Dances. It becomes difficult to kill due to the fact that it phazes you out before you can touch it, and even if you do touch it, it's bulky enough to take a few hits.
EDIT:
And @ Supreme Dirt, the Crobat set isn't a Gimmick. It's a set-up Crobat. After one turn, Crobat gains a nice, powerful STAB move and a +1 boost in both attack and defense. It's not a gimmick at all. It's very similar to any Shell Smash set utilizing White Herb, only this one takes advantage of the lost item. Super Fang can help with the coverage problem as stated before.
I actually hadn't thought enough about the mindgame potential in the Kojondo set. Makes it even better in my eyes.
I think both sets have their own merits. Kojondo deals in mind games and can act as a regular attacker when his substitutes aren't needed, and a Kojofu can be a straight passer who's bulkier than his evolution.
Taking into account the idea raised about speed (that is, that a slower substitute is far more likely to get the job done), I suppose a better Nature for Kojondo in this set would be Relaxed, Sassy, or Brave (cuts Speed, raises one of his more necessary stats)
Or would a Speed raising nature be better of Kojondo's mind games? Either way, Relaxed/Sassy/Brave would be alright for Kojofu.
- Status