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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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Lol SDing on Deoxys.

Oh, and Gliscor can be OHKOd by Adamant Blaziken's +2 LO Flare Blitz. Just saying.

I find the best way to check Blaziken is to have a Scarfer who outspeeds it at +1 in combination with a pokemon to resist its STABs. If it doesn't run Protect, the Scarfer will outspeed and KO while if it does, its STABs get walled.

Even a max/max spread? o.O A gliscor has walled 3 rock slides (with poison heal) from my +4 doryuuzu. I don't imagine that it would ohko. Too lazy to do the calculations. Speaking of which I would greatly appreciate a link to a 5'th gen damage calc because I hate having to do calculations myself.

I am assuming you mean that recoil will build up...? But if it does run protect it is a guaranteed ko right there which could be an argument for it's nonexistant brokenness. Also, when ditto is released it will kill blaziken's not lacking protect and rip a hole in their team, or have a 50/50 shot at killing blaziken if it does have protect. (I have done this in dream world many times. xD. They always swear at me and forfeit when I do)

I run max special attack on deoxys with 405 speed (I forget how many ev's that is) and the rest in hp with psycho boost, stealth rocks, magic mirror and spikes. Magic mirror gets rid of the need for taunt and it takes care of other taunters.

Onto a new subject, shadow tag as an ability I don't think should be banned. Wynaut isn't threatening, and in my opinion wob isn't too bad either. But I haven't come across 1 in all the battles that I have done (100+) so I may change my opinion when I finally do. The only one that is broken with shadow tag is shandera. As a revenge killer or running this set: I don't know the ev's but I am guessing max speed/hp. It has killed me every time came accross it.

acid armor
substitute/shadow ball
calm mind
flamethrower/shadow ball
 
91.8% - 108.5% is the amount max/max impish gliscor takes from +2 LO Flare Blitz. Considering I run Blaz on my sun team, Gliscor is flat out dead two times over after that.

Blaziken is far from broken. No one is saying that. However, he is a huge monster once he gets going. Don't underestimate him just because players try to boost in the face of deoxys (I mean, what the hell?) or set up when you have ditto on your team (no setup pokemon should EVER be doing this unless they're defensive boosters, contain movesets they resist, or are EV'd to tank their own attacks after setting up with bulk up, calm mind, etc)
 
I barely play (only seven games) and I know that you guys probably do not really like these types of "uninformed" posts, but I just wanted to say that people really need to calm down about banning everything rain, like Kingdra and Ludicolo and Drizzle itself. If you ban Drizzle, then essentially you should also ban Sandstream, and should also probably ban it from generation IV where it dominated just fine. If you ban all the good water pokemon, then you should also ban Tyranitar, Garchomp, et cetera. I am not saying no changes need to be made (I think just no Manaphy could create all the positive changes "needed"), but just because you dislike battling something or with something does not mean that it is too dominant and that it is totally ruining everything. I used an all RBYGSC rain team for my battles, and it was quite fun. My team would have been much stronger with Manaphy, but without it I felt like things were pretty even footed. There is nothing wrong with an extra element to have to deal with more often, personally I always hated sand and stealth rock in DPP and did my best to battle against them and not use them and had okay fun (I quit because luck was bothering me so much, not the metagame).

(Also without Drizzle sand/Tyranitar would still be everywhere, if you think otherwise you are fooling yourself).
 
Drizzle (or Drizzle + Swift Swim) - While I do not think Drizzle is broken by itself, the sheer centralization it forces is too significant to be ignored. I can give you a near-guarentee that nobody that qualified had a team that lacked a Tyranitar or Politoed for this very reason - the metagame has become a game where whoever controls the weather generally wins.

Actually, I used neither a Ttar or a toed. But I did use an abomasnow, and I expect there were ninetails users up there, and maybe even a few abomasnows or no weathers. But yes it is very centralizing, which is the main reason I support banning anything in relation to rain. However, I think it is the power of the best sweepers which force the centralization, not swift swim or drizzle- they just contribute.
 
Since there have been several nominations of Rankurusu and Landlos in particular, I'd like to direct people's attention to them since they haven't been discussed much in this thread. How does everyone feel about them being potentially broken?

Personally I can certainly see how both have the potential to be (Rock Polish and useable SpAtk for Landlos and Magic Guard for Rank) but don't think I've had enough time to consider it to be sure.

Also nominated in numbers were Latios and Doryuzuu, and the abilities Sand Stream and Drought. I'm not sure that with the meta as it presently is that either of the former are for sure broken (though in future I can imagine they would be), but I feel that the nomination of the other weather abilities at this stage is somewhat even more preemptive and unecessary - and in fact is somewhat foolishly based solely on the assumption that with Drizzle gone it too will be broken.

I suppose I feel like, particularly in the case of something as complex as weather, that people are rushing the suspect testing by nominating things they anticipate being broken.
 
Since there have been several nominations of Rankurusu and Landlos in particular, I'd like to direct people's attention to them since they haven't been discussed much in this thread. How does everyone feel about them being potentially broken?

Personally I can certainly see how both have the potential to be (Rock Polish and useable SpAtk for Landlos and Magic Guard for Rank) but don't think I've had enough time to consider it to be sure.

Also nominated in numbers were Latios and Doryuzuu, and the abilities Sand Stream and Drought. I'm not sure that with the meta as it presently is that either of the former are for sure broken (though in future I can imagine they would be), but I feel that the nomination of the other weather abilities at this stage is somewhat even more preemptive and unecessary - and in fact is somewhat foolishly based solely on the assumption that with Drizzle gone it too will be broken.

I suppose I feel like, particularly in the case of something as complex as weather, that people are rushing the suspect testing by nominating things they anticipate being broken.
I nominated drought, and i intend to vote on it also. Just because its not the only offensive weather right now doesn't mean we haven't played against a normal weather team vs. sun. Sun automatically has the advantage over normal teams just like rain with chlorophyl. It makes venasuar just as dangerous if not more dangerous than kingdra. Growth gives him +2 +2 to both attack stats making it super hard to wall. It also has synthesis if you want to use that. There are also abusers that don't have chlorophyl liike urugomasu and blaziken(mentioned in my nomination). After a swords dance blaziken can be even more deadly than venasuar. It gets the free speed boosts as well as the blaze kick boost to pretty much 2hko everything. Same goes for urugomasu, just with butterfly dance making it bulky.
 
I suppose I feel like, particularly in the case of something as complex as weather, that people are rushing the suspect testing by nominating things they anticipate being broken.

You suppose? That's exactly what they're doing. It's why this entire democratic process is completely ridiculous.
 
Ban happy people wanna ban Reuniclus. Can someone please state the reasons why Reuniclus should be banned? (My most favorite 5th gen is on the chopping block. Really why? ;_;) I can at least understand that it's a beast. I've used it long enough but I don't see the reason why it deserves to be banned.
 
I had a discussion about Rankurusu with someone a while back, but I think since lots of people have nominated him I might have underestimated him. The reason for this is simply because I have carried a CB Scizor in nearly all my teams (because, seriously, it's the best). I've used the CM Life Orb set and it just wrecks teams without Scizor. Still wouldn't call it broken though.

Landlos is one of the most broken Pokemon in the game right now. Someone said it right in the other thread - it is this gen's Salamence. It has NO counters whatsoever. The Choice Band set can 2HKO the metagame with good prediction, SD set rapes stall while Rock Polish will destroy offense and then there's other stuff like Bulk Up. In sand, it's got ridiculous power. It's got enough SpA to get past any would-be physical counter anyway.

A lot like Manaphy, even without Sandstorm (or rain in Manaphy's case) it is still a monstrously strong Pokemon.

Drought needs proper testing. While I think it will be banned once the other weathers are neutered, because of the nature of the metagame you can't really say it is broken right now because Sun teams are barely viable. Same logic applies to Deoxys-N which didn't get a test when it should. If it ends up broken, it's broken, but banning it without any practical evidence just seems a bit bizarre to me.
 
I nominated drought, and i intend to vote on it also. Just because its not the only offensive weather right now doesn't mean we haven't played against a normal weather team vs. sun. Sun automatically has the advantage over normal teams just like rain with chlorophyl. It makes venasuar just as dangerous if not more dangerous than kingdra. Growth gives him +2 +2 to both attack stats making it super hard to wall. It also has synthesis if you want to use that. There are also abusers that don't have chlorophyl liike urugomasu and blaziken(mentioned in my nomination). After a swords dance blaziken can be even more deadly than venasuar. It gets the free speed boosts as well as the blaze kick boost to pretty much 2hko everything. Same goes for urugomasu, just with butterfly dance making it bulky.

However does Drought centralise the metagame whatsoever in its current state? It also has problems with most Dragon types and Heatran (Venusaur cannot beat both on the same set) amongst other things, many of which are viable options and can be used to play around Sun. Unlike with Rain, the STAB Fire boost and doubled speed is never present on the same pokemon and their inducer is incredibly frail, SR weak and has awful supporting options. Just because a teamstyle matches up poorly to Sun - weatherless teams built without it in mind - does not mean it is unbalanced. Sand and Rain - two commonly present forces in the current meta, check it incredibly well.

I do not understand how you can choose to nominate something which is, simply put, not broken in the metagame at the time of the nominations. I accept that it may become so if say Rain is removed, and then I would not have this issue with its nomination, but right now it seems inappropriate.
 
However does Drought centralise the metagame whatsoever in its current state? It also has problems with most Dragon types and Heatran (Venusaur cannot beat both on the same set) amongst other things, many of which are viable options and can be used to play around Sun. Unlike with Rain, the STAB Fire boost and doubled speed is never present on the same pokemon and their inducer is incredibly frail, SR weak and has awful supporting options. Just because a teamstyle matches up poorly to Sun - weatherless teams built without it in mind - does not mean it is unbalanced. Sand and Rain - two commonly present forces in the current meta, check it incredibly well.

I do not understand how you can choose to nominate something which is, simply put, not broken in the metagame at the time of the nominations. I accept that it may become so if say Rain is removed, and then I would not have this issue with its nomination, but right now it seems inappropriate.
Well my philosophy is that if one weather gets banned the others do too. Im not going to vote for sand stream yet vote for its abusers since it has been in previous gens unbroken.
 
Between people nominating Drought, which is neither dominating nor is it really seeing play (if at all at the top of the ladder), Shadow Tag, which all users of are either currently UU (Wobbuffett) or not legal to use (Dream World Shandera), and Deoxys-N being banned when no one used it, I'm very disappointed.

Some nominations make more sense then others, but these make me shake my head.

I also feel like this community is subject to the snow-ball effect. One or two players mention the difficulties of dealing with a particular threat, and then everyone bandwagons, creating a political storm all in favor of banning the Pokemon in question.

Given the past results and the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if Rankurusu heads down that trend.


Well my philosophy is that if one weather gets banned the others do too. Im not going to vote for sand stream yet vote for its abusers since it has been in previous gens unbroken.

And this is one of the many examples of why we have a problem.

1) Your "philosophy" doesn't explain why the other weathers are broken. If Drizzle is broken, it doesn't equate to Drought, or Hail, or Sandstorm being broken. Yet we have nominations and votes being made based on this mentality.

2) This is Gen V. Why are we looking back at Gen IV to see if our current decisions are acceptable?
 
Since there have been several nominations of Rankurusu and Landlos in particular, I'd like to direct people's attention to them since they haven't been discussed much in this thread. How does everyone feel about them being potentially broken?

Personally I can certainly see how both have the potential to be (Rock Polish and useable SpAtk for Landlos and Magic Guard for Rank) but don't think I've had enough time to consider it to be sure.

Also nominated in numbers were Latios and Doryuzuu, and the abilities Sand Stream and Drought. I'm not sure that with the meta as it presently is that either of the former are for sure broken (though in future I can imagine they would be), but I feel that the nomination of the other weather abilities at this stage is somewhat even more preemptive and unecessary - and in fact is somewhat foolishly based solely on the assumption that with Drizzle gone it too will be broken.

I suppose I feel like, particularly in the case of something as complex as weather, that people are rushing the suspect testing by nominating things they anticipate being broken.

I'm really not sure where people are coming from with the Reuniclus ban. I personally see it as the special counterpart to Roohbushin who, while good, cannot take repeated hits on the physical side (due to lack of resistances), just as Rohb cannot take much special punishment.

I'm not seeing Landlos as broken either. It is checked rather easily in my experience, as base 101 speed is trolly but not as effective as it would have been last generation. I always scout for HP Ice with Gliscor and if present, I simply pivot switch to something that is faster - Rock Polish sets STILL fail to hit hard enough to wipe out a healthy team, and SD sets are outsped by anything with a Scarf and decently powerful attack. Again, it is good, but not broken.

I've expressed my faith in Latios being OU previously, and stand by it. If Latios is broken because of the Specs set, Sazandora might as well be too (and I've used both). Sazandora can actually afford to go Modest, making it more powerful than Timid SpecsLatios, and while the latter is better equipped for a late-game sweep with Dragon Pulse / Psycho Shock, the former has an easier time as a mid-game attacker with its additional resistance, one less weakness, and lack of Pursuit vulnerability, IMO. Top tier OU. Those that have nominated Latias need to take a step back and reconsider, as Latias was an EXTREMELY debatable case last generation and is decidedly more at home in OU this round what with all the power creep.

Doryuuzu has never been an issue for me as there are various options, both offensive and defensive, to deal with it.

And I really dislike these preemptive Drought / SandStream bans. Just because they are, along with Drizzle, effective weather abilities does not mean that they are equal, and cannot be banned on a whim so easily. It is the epitome of overbanning and I'm not sure how people don't realize that. It is akin to banning Gorebyss because we are all certain that Kindgra will go, and we might as well stop it from becoming broken before it gets the chance to wreak havoc.
 
Some nominations make more sense then others, but these make me shake my head.

I also feel like this community is subject to the snow-ball effect. One or two players mention the difficulties of dealing with a particular threat, and then everyone bandwagons, creating a political storm all in favor of banning the Pokemon in question.

[In response to Lampost]

1) Your "philosophy" doesn't explain why the other weathers are broken. If Drizzle is broken, it doesn't equate to Drought, or Hail, or Sandstorm being broken. Yet we have nominations and votes being made based on this mentality.

2) This is Gen V. Why are we looking back at Gen IV to see if our current decisions are acceptable?

Essentially I fully agree with all of what I've quoted. Though the snowball effect has not always been too bad, I'd agree that in this phase it has been present more than any I remember.

And your points refuting Lampost's stance are the same as my own.

Edit @ Icyman: Rank I think is being nominated for two reasons - him being able to dominate stall as a playstyle almost singlehandedly, and the sheer effectiveness of the CM set. I've yet to see the CM set perform well much myself, so I'd need someone to supply evidence of it's effectiveness. If it can be proven that it damages stall as a playstyle significantly, then I think a ban would be justified.

Landlos as I see it has HP Ice's usability to give it amazing coverage and Rock Polish making him practically the fastest thing in the universe (well, speed tiers) while retaining his offensive capabilities i can see could easily be broken, but again I barely see anyone run the RP set over other ones which I never have too many issues with, so I'd need input on him too to make a judgment.
 
I had a discussion about Rankurusu with someone a while back, but I think since lots of people have nominated him I might have underestimated him. The reason for this is simply because I have carried a CB Scizor in nearly all my teams (because, seriously, it's the best). I've used the CM Life Orb set and it just wrecks teams without Scizor. Still wouldn't call it broken though.

I've used a CM Life Orb set myself and while it is true that it wrecks shit up, (It survives a CB Scizors U-turn) it also suffers from (what I believe to be) a moveslot syndrome. The choice between Fighting and ghost is the choice between counters. I use HP fighting and psychic which gives me a real hard time against other psychic types and most importantly Latios. If I use shadow ball I'll have problems against Dark types and sandstorm teams. Reuniclus is a beast but I don't think it's CM set is broken simply because it's got limited options.
 
I don't understand the reasoning behind some of these nominations. The entire point of the testing phase is defeated if one nominates something because, "It isn't broken now, but it may theoretically become broken once X is banned." If what you're trying to ban hasn't been found to be broken during the testing phase, then why are you playing suspect to begin with?
 
Reuniclus is a great setup platform, I'll agree, but I still don't think its broken. I may have seen a post citing its ability to run either Trick Room or Calm Mind as one of the reasons...aka the fact that it's versatile in the form of two sets. These are the two sets I've come across most often:

Reuniclus@LO/Leftovers + Psychic / Recover / CM / Focus Blast or Shadow Ball
Reuniclus@LO + Psychic / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / Trick Room

In both cases, it can be dealt with - it is bulky but it cannot take repeated physical assaults, and the latter set, while hitting hard, can be played around until Trick Room ends and then you can attack it on its exposed defenses. I'm aware that those nominating suspects made voting reqs, but I can't help but feel a bandwagon mentality and the mindset of "I don't like playing this, let's toss it out."

On the other hand, the Deoxys-N nominations know what's up. It was literally blanketed under Deoxys-A and after Capefeather's post brought to light some interesting facts, I think it does deserve a fair chance. There is a big difference between 150 and 180, especially considering the Base Power of its unSTABed moves.
 
Between people nominating Drought, which is neither dominating nor is it really seeing play (if at all at the top of the ladder), Shadow Tag, which all users of are either currently UU (Wobbuffett) or not legal to use (Dream World Shandera), and Deoxys-N being banned when no one used it, I'm very disappointed.

Some nominations make more sense then others, but these make me shake my head.

I also feel like this community is subject to the snow-ball effect. One or two players mention the difficulties of dealing with a particular threat, and then everyone bandwagons, creating a political storm all in favor of banning the Pokemon in question.

Given the past results and the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if Rankurusu heads down that trend.

This is exactly how I feel.

And it's because of this that I'm starting to get really skeptical as to whether it was a good idea to give people so much freedom in their nominations. Honestly, we have some people who are nominating like 10 things in their posts. Because they're allowed to nominate as much shit as they want, they're going to nominate anything that even remotely gives them trouble. Ie. Rankurusu and Landlos.

I don't understand what happened to people at least trying to play around threats. Is it really that hard to change parts of your team because it doesn't work well in the metagame? Are people so upset that certain pokemon are used more than others which leads them to nominate stuff for causing "centralization"?

Also, a problem that existed back in Gen 4 might be creeping into this metagame too. In Gen 4, I found that people consistently banned any suspect that came into a vote because they just wanted to play a fresh, new metagame. I'm getting a very bad feeling that this is going to happen in Gen 5 a lot, because with all the people that seem to think that centralization is grounds for banning, and the lack of uber characteristics, people are going to be voting a lot on metagame preference, which IMO, is not the way to go.

I'm kind of wondering how many people who are nominating things such as Rankurusu based on actual playing, or based on bad theorymon. I'm sure some of the top players like Jabba might be nominating it based on actual playing, but I'm sure that a very large amount of players are just bandwagoning with what he said. Like Ulevo said, something like Deoxys-N was banned when nobody even used it, yet because so many people posted nominations that were obviously theorymon (with maybe one or two legitimate nominations), and because people felt it was exactly like Deoxys-A when they were voting, it got banned. That's the reason I posted a huge de-nomination for it, because I really, truly think it was unfairly banned.

All I can say is that I hope Phil and his cabinet weed out the nominations that sound like they're blatant bandwagons, because that's the only real way to help the problem.

I'm at least glad to see that there are very few Shadow Tag nominations this time around though, because it absolutely isn't a broken ability. Maybe Wobbuffet is broken with Shadow Tag (I don't think it is, but whatever), but Wynaut sure as hell isn't, especially since Encore kinda sucks with only 3 turns now. And when the Unova Shadow Taggers come out, Shandera might be broken with it (again, I don't think it is from my experience in DW OU), but Ranpuraa and Hitomoshi sure as hell aren't (Hitomoshi is apparently ridiculously hard to use even in Little Cup), and people don't even think Gochiruzeru is broken in DW OU. Don't forget about the pre-evolutions when considering banning an ability. They're pokemon too! There's literally no point in banning an ability that might be considered broken on 1 or 2 pokemon, but is completely fine on every single other pokemon that has it.

The only time an ability like this should be banned IMO is when they're a case like Inconsistent. Inconsistent was broken on literally every single user of it, including shit like Bidoof. The important point here is that it not only took into account the fully evolved users, but also the not-fully-evolved users. They were all seen to be broken, so the common factor making them all banworthy, Inconsistent, was banned instead.

I'm aware that those nominating suspects made voting reqs, but I can't help but feel a bandwagon mentality and the mindset of "I don't like playing this, let's toss it out."

A very large amount of people nominating did not make voting reqs.
 
Those same people who are arrogant enough to predict the metagames future and base nominations on said "insight" are in line with the same people that thought that Electivire and Ryhperior would be the pivotal forces in Gen IV prior to its release.

You can't predict a game this dynamic. The removal of a single move, item, or Pokemon can shift the entire paradigm drastically and all of your knowledge and experience will be required to shift with it or risk falling out of place.

It is for these reasons that we can't use Gen IV as a reference for our decision making, nor can we use our fears and presumptions to dictate what we do in current time.
 
Lots of words

In itself people nominating that many things is somewhat of a problem given that at present nothing (except arguably Drizzle) is clearly broken. I think some of this is based on experience in a meta without Drizzle and people presuming they will end up broken - which of course is a problem.

I concur on people not playing around things, or even trying to. The number of posts saying Rain sweepers are "uncounterable" is absurd when this is simply not true - some things do wall each of them for example. People's disdain for running a weather move if it will help your team succeed in the present meta likewise. Many aren't guilty of this, but I think you hit the nail on the head that people aren't putting enough effort into countering before nominating.

People wanting to play a fresh meta I think probably isn't a factor at this stage - given that lots of things will most likely still be suspects, so change is inevitable, and that DW abilites will be gradually trickling in and making the meta permenantly in flux. It could be yet though.

I do see a bit of bandwagon or Deo-N syndrome happening in the numbers of nominations of mons barely even discussed in this thread, however.

In terms of ability bans, I personally agree with only doing them if every user is broken, but in the case of an ability like Inconsistent I see the ban more as it was not beneficial to the skill element in the game rather than being statistically broken.

I see no issue in letting any user nominate suspects, but perhaps some criteria for reasoning (length maybe) should have been enacted to try and make sure people make reasonable, well thought out noms. It doesn't matter too much if they don't, as I'm sure the mods will weed them out, but it would save their time and ours in debating this somewhat.
 
In itself people nominating that many things is somewhat of a problem given that at present nothing (except arguably Drizzle) is clearly broken. I think some of this is based on experience in a meta without Drizzle and people presuming they will end up broken - which of course is a problem.

I concur on people not playing around things, or even trying to. The number of posts saying Rain sweepers are "uncounterable" is absurd when this is simply not true - some things do wall each of them for example. People's disdain for running a weather move if it will help your team succeed in the present meta likewise. Many aren't guilty of this, but I think you hit the nail on the head that people aren't putting enough effort into countering before nominating.

People wanting to play a fresh meta I think probably isn't a factor at this stage - given that lots of things will most likely still be suspects, so change is inevitable, and that DW abilites will be gradually trickling in and making the meta permenantly in flux. It could be yet though.

I do see a bit of bandwagon or Deo-N syndrome happening in the numbers of noms of mons barely even discussed in this thread, however.

In terms of ability bans, I personally agree with only doint them if every user is broken, but in the case of an ability like Inconsistent I see the ban more as it was not beneficial to the skill element in the game rather than being statistically broken.

I see no issue in letting any user nominate suspects, but perhaps some criteria for reasoning (length maybe) should have been enacted to try and make sure people make reasonable, well thought out noms. It doesn't matter too much if they do, as I'm sure the mods will weed them out, but it would save their time and ours in debating this somewhat.

Whats the big deal about banning abilities on just a certain pokemon anyway? It's not like there's a law stopping us from doing so. If it helps make a more desirable metagame why not do it? I just don't understand the controversy.
I got my rating, i earned my rating, and im going to vote for what i want regardless of what you guys argue about here. Im pretty sure everyone with voting rights knows what their going to vote against already. I'm going to vote for what i think will make a more fun metagame. I think too many people forget that this is for fun.
 
I still see no reason to ban Reuniclus.
He's good,but not broken.
Strong Bug/Dark/Ghost attacks barely OHKO him,that's true. But they leave him in such low health,and he has such low speed that he wont be able to recover.
He can take one good hit,but can't take several of them.
I feel that people now just want to ban anything that gives their team any trouble >.>
Drizzle IS broken on the other hand. The support it gives is WAY too much.
It's no unbeatable,but it has VERY few counters,and it killed diversity.
Reuniclus though? That's just being silly.
 
They can nominate whatever they want so long as they have the rating. Nominating things that are admittedly NOT gamebreaking during the testing phase under the reasoning of "they might be broken later" is just silly though. If Latios and Latias end up being voted into ubers, do we ban Garchomp too because his SDYache set might become broken once they're gone and can no longer check him? No. We test him first.
 
They can nominate whatever they want so long as they have the rating. Nominating things that are admittedly NOT gamebreaking during the testing phase under the reasoning of "they might be broken later" is just silly though. If Latios and Latias end up being voted into ubers, do we ban Garchomp too because his SDYache set might become broken once they're gone and can no longer check him? No. We test him first.

But the thing is, people don't even need to have the rating to nominate. That's where a lot of the bandwagoning is coming from, because it's not as if people have to disclose their ratings if they didn't make the cutoff. People who barely played can make as many nominations as they want as well, which can obviously be a bit of a problem.

@Icyman: lol capefeather never said anything about Deoxys-N in his nomination.
 
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