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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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MAX HP. Also dory wont switch on Tar. Dory usualy abuse the choice locked move.

What i mean is, rather than using ttar as anti psychic, the possibility of a team can be increased just by tweaking Ttar. From my experience, CB tar isnt exactly all you go too set for Ttar such as in Mence's DD and mix. Ttar has many sets he can run effectively so just slapping CBtar on most team isnt exactly what i can call best usage of Ttar. In my experience, i rather use Psychic check + other tar sets(scarf, mix, lure, BOAH, Tweaked lead is some that i have sucees with) rather than CBtar + filler in a team.

its just... me
 
JSND, CBTar is one of the strongest attackers in the game, im not sure why you keep calling it a waste. Who needs flamethrower when you can 2HKO Skarm by simply slamming your STAB? It also has considerable bulk and no other tyranitar set can hit nearly as hard.
 
im not saying its a waste. Im saying, since Ttar is so versatile, usualy when im making team i consider the tar i choose can affect 2 or more slot on a team. If i use CB, then i can use X better but Y worse but when i use mixtar for example, i can use Y better and X worse vice versa.
That kind of factor is some of the most important aspect in making them based on my experience in playing gen 5.

Example :
1. I use CBtar as my Psychic check. I have 1 slot. Since i have psy check, i can use CB tar to weaken Ranky so i can run some good but ranky weak poke in that slot to clean the weakened ranky while i dont need shubarugo.

2. I use Lefties SR tar. I cant beat ranky so i slap Shubarugo here. Since tar use SR i dont need Y that uses SR so i can
a. change the move with other utility move
b. change it to fit the team.

Yeah in the end its some team building process and team synergy that i seek when i add Cb tar. In most cases CB tar win since its clearly one of if not best Ttar set in the game. But when we see how can Ttar be used in 900 ways, we realize that just slapping CB tar everytime wont really solve problem every time.

Sorry a bit confusing, in the end i just think Ttar has many set and just using CB tar since its his best set isnt exactly what i say best usage out of Ttar
 
JSND said:
MAX HP. Also dory wont switch on Tar. Dory usualy abuse the choice locked move.

What i mean is, rather than using ttar as anti psychic, the possibility of a team can be increased just by tweaking Ttar. From my experience, CB tar isnt exactly all you go too set for Ttar such as in Mence's DD and mix. Ttar has many sets he can run effectively so just slapping CBtar on most team isnt exactly what i can call best usage of Ttar. In my experience, i rather use Psychic check + other tar sets(scarf, mix, lure, BOAH, Tweaked lead is some that i have sucees with) rather than CBtar + filler in a team.

its just... me
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What else would you be investing in outside of HP and attack? Speed? Unless you really want to outspeed Skarmory, you can go 252 HP easily
 
masterful said:
What else would you be investing in outside of HP and attack? Speed? Unless you really want to outspeed Skarmory, you can go 252 HP easily
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Exactly T_T
61 Speed is pathetic and investing in it wont help you out speed threats.

Still,Tyranitar remains a Top Tier threat and with Max HP and his huge Sp.Def in the Sand,it's stupidly hard to take him out on either side of the spectrum.
 
I always invest in enough Speed on CBTar for Skarmory. Stone Edge is your best move and you should be using it every chance you get, which means an incoming Skarmory will get 2HKOed (and not Roost in your face while Stone Edge does a pittance).
 
SJCrew said:
I always invest in enough Speed on CBTar for Skarmory. Stone Edge is your best move and you should be using it every chance you get, which means an incoming Skarmory will get 2HKOed (and not Roost in your face while Stone Edge does a pittance).
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How many Speed EVs do you need to out speed Skarmory?
 
Tyranitar ans skarms minimum speeds are 158 and 176 respectively. 76 speed EVs allow tyranitar to outspeed skarm at 177. I believe that some skarm run 8 speed EVs, so you'd give tyranitar 84 in this case.

CBtar is his best set?
 
CB Tar is certainly its best set if you want to just hurt things. However, a case must be made for mixtar - it's awesome if you want to get rid of those Gliscor AND Skarmory to help Doryuzu.
 
Erazor said:
CB Tar is certainly its best set if you want to just hurt things. However, a case must be made for mixtar - it's awesome if you want to get rid of those Gliscor AND Skarmory to help Doryuzu.
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That's not even mentioning its ability to take out Nattorei, which can be a huge pain otherwise.
 
Hence why while Cbtar us ckearky the best in every generation, Best Ttar usage is taking milleage out of his massively insane movepool.
 
SJCrew said:
I always invest in enough Speed on CBTar for Skarmory. Stone Edge is your best move and you should be using it every chance you get, which means an incoming Skarmory will get 2HKOed (and not Roost in your face while Stone Edge does a pittance).
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what possible reason could there be for running Skarm when nattorei exists?
 
masterful said:
what possible reason could there be for running Skarm when nattorei exists?
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Skarm:
1) Roost (instant recovery=good)
2) ability to phaze (Whirlwind)
3) immunity to Ground and not Fighting-weak
4) physically bulkier
5) can Taunt other defensive mons and it out-speeds most of them


Natt:
1) can stall with Leech Seed
2) can cripple sweepers with T-Wave
3) amazing resistances to Water, Electric, Rock, etc.
4) WAY more specially bulky


So now to answer your question. Nattorei is better on a typical team. But if you are looking for a straight-up physical wall and don't care about Sp Def, then Skarmory is the superior choice.
 
TacoBot said:
And can actually outspeed something to save its life.
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And do colossal damage with BRAVE BIRD. Yeah, have fun with that. The only real benefits of skarm are Phazing, a just barely "fast" Roost and no 4x fire weakness. But with Nat's versatility and far better typing, I just don't know
 
masterful said:
And do colossal damage with BRAVE BIRD. Yeah, have fun with that. The only real benefits of skarm are Phazing, a just barely "fast" Roost and no 4x fire weakness. But with Nat's versatility and far better typing, I just don't know
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The thing is that using Skarm right now is like using Dragonite in the Gen4 Mence metagame.
You had to make sure you weren't using it as an inferior Mence. But if you did that, it was still an amazing poke.

One last thing: phazing and instant recovery are pretty huge. Don't downplay them.
 
huh, Skarmory and Nattorei are quite different. Just because they're both Steel types with good defense doesn't make them the same thing... And if they're different, there's no way one "outclasses" the other.
 
Deaga said:
huh, Skarmory and Nattorei are quite different. Just because they're both Steel types with good defense doesn't make them the same thing... And if they're different, there's no way one "outclasses" the other.
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Moltres and Zapdos are both Flying types with good Sp Atk.
But Zapdos almost always outclasses Moltres.

For once, masterful had a valid point. It is easy to brush aside Skarm for Natty. While I believe that Skarm is not outclassed, I can see why some people would say that.
 
Deaga said:
huh, Skarmory and Nattorei are quite different. Just because they're both Steel types with good defense doesn't make them the same thing... And if they're different, there's no way one "outclasses" the other.
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Skarm really doesn't do anything different than nat does (besides Whirlwind), and Nat is just better than it in most cases
 
SlimMan said:
Moltres and Zapdos are both Flying types with good Sp Atk.
But Zapdos almost always outclasses Moltres.

For once, masterful had a valid point. It is easy to brush aside Skarm for Natty. While I believe that Skarm is not outclassed, I can see why some people would say that.
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They are two completely different Pokemon. They do NOT outclass each other in the slightest. If you need a Ground Immunity choose Skarmory. If you need an electric and Water resist use Nattorei. If you need anti-water-type utility, use Nattorei. If you want to not be set up fodder for anything resistant to your attacks, choose Skarmory. If you don't want your Steel-type to add a Fighting-type weakness to your team, choose Skarmory. And also, Zapdos doesn't outclass Moltres at all... (exept for SR compound weakness but if you have anti-hazard utility, that's not a problem)
 
iDunno said:
They are two completely different Pokemon. They do NOT outclass each other in the slightest. If you need a Ground Immunity choose Skarmory. If you need an electric and Water resist use Nattorei. If you need anti-water-type utility, use Nattorei. If you want to not be set up fodder for anything resistant to your attacks, choose Skarmory. If you don't want your Steel-type to add a Fighting-type weakness to your team, choose Skarmory. And also, Zapdos doesn't outclass Moltres at all... (exept for SR compound weakness but if you have anti-hazard utility, that's not a problem)
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1)So you're saying Zapdos and Moltres are equally good. Riiiight...
2)Listing off different typing does not make them have any different roles. DUH
3)Nat can easily protect+Leech Seed when it needs to and has great synergy with other pokes
 
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