Specs Latios dies to all of that too >.>
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Specs Latios dies to all of that too >.>
He's talking about Scarf, though.
Do people even USE Scarf Latios?
It's better than scarf sazando, and that's what matters right now
Scarf Latios is better against anything with Mach Punch and anything between their Speed stats with a +1 boost. Scarf Hydre is better against most other things.
However, Latios can run much better sets than Scarf. Hydre... not so much. They both have their uses, but Hydre's uses are much more limited than Latios'.
I like Hydra, but in order to be at least as good as Latios, it needs at the very least 5 moveslots
Overall quality is irrelevant. Hydre has different resistances and different moves. If those resistances and moves are what your team needs, you've got a damn good reason to use Hydre regardless of anything relating to Latios.
His moveset beats latios only because it has Fire Blast, and the dark type doesn't go far enough to make up for subpar speed
And U-Turn. And Taunt. And STAB Dark Pulse. And Earth Power. And Focus Blast. And Flash Cannon.
On some teams, any of those things, or his type, could easily matter more than the difference in Speed. You can't assume all qualities will be equally significant to all teams.
Choiced Sazandora can actually be used early game if the opposition has a Pursuit user like Tyranitar. Latios can't. At all. In fact, I could go so far to say that it is horrible early game. Choice Specs Latios is superior to Sazandora Lategame since its counters are whiddled down to an area where it can KO while outspeeding some key late game sweepers like Terakion and Landlos.
Flash cannon is a wasted slot, DP is a wasted slot, Focus Blast is a wasted slot, earth power is an acceptable slot. Taunt is not something you use on a scarfer. The best Scarf Sazando set IMO is DM/Surf/Fire Blast/ U-turn. It has perfect coverage and is capable of scouting, but it is slow and easily revenged
fixed
Dark Pulse is a weaker STAB option to use for sweeping a weakened team, like dragon pulse on specs dragons. While weaker, it has the benefir of adding some SE coverage, so it's not a total waste.
Flash cannon should NEVER be used, and Focus Blast is pretty much just for ttar. It hits tran also, but you have surf and earth power for that.
EDIT@above: Flash cannon is not a situational move. There is not one pokemon that it is better against than another move, nor is there a certain group of important pokemon it hits where you would need two moves otherwise.
Sazandora can be things other than a scarfer, but it's not a good set-upper, which is what taunt is best on. Taunt works on bulky wallbreakers as well, like gliscor, but Sazandora isn't that bulky, and it has a lot more power so it's better off just going for 2-3hkos with raw DM power/ SE coverage, so I doubt it will even be used on wallbreaker sets.
Flash cannon should NEVER be used, and Focus Blast is pretty much just for ttar. It hits tran also, but you have surf and earth power for that.
EDIT@above: Flash cannon is not a situational move. There is not one pokemon that it is better against than another move, nor is there a certain group of important pokemon it hits where you would need two moves otherwise.
Sazandora can be things other than a scarfer, but it's not a good set-upper, which is what taunt is best on. Taunt works on bulky wallbreakers as well, like gliscor, but Sazandora isn't that bulky, and it has a lot more power so it's better off just going for 2-3hkos with raw DM power/ SE coverage, so I doubt it will even be used on wallbreaker sets.
Access to Flash Cannon is most likely inconsequential, but Focus Blast has its uses, as does Dark Pulse, especially with STAB. Taunt has uses on other sets Hydre might run, although they're likely a bit more limited in their effectiveness.
So what's the problem with that Hydre set? It can get up to 486 Speed, which may not be fast enough to outrun everything, but it's still monstrously fast, and there's plenty of reason to use it over Latios if your other Pokemon can handle the threats I outlined before. It may not be the better choice on as many teams, but it's still the better choice on enough teams to be significant.
Unfortunately for me, people still use scarf Latios. Do you really think I'd be using shadow claw on blaziken if that bastard wasn't switching in on my sword's dance and outspeeding me afterwards (Blaze has no reason to use Shadow claw except for a grand total of one pokemon, jellicient)? It isn't totally common, but scarf latios is useful for smashing apart +1 speed boosters off of his huge special attack.
Scarf Latios would be an awesome idea if he weren't weak to Pursuit. Now Scizor and Ttar can switch directly in and get rid of him without any problems.
Also, don't forget about Shadow Claw for Slowbro and Latias, which brings the grand total to four. That's good enough for coverage.
Also, don't forget about Shadow Claw for Slowbro and Latias, which brings the grand total to four. That's good enough for coverage.
The number of pokemon that Scarf Latios can come into and OHKO is extremely high. And it's not just a situational thing, Scarf Latios outspeeds most of the metagame even if they're also at +1 Speed (and sometimes even things that are at +2). I've been using it for a solid week now and I think it's Latios' best set. You don't have to shut down every potential counter for something to be deadly in this metagame because team previews takes away the need for all-encompassing movesets. You can pick and choose when you're going to attack now instead of being kept on your toes for the whole match.
Which is popular enough to worry about. It also hits other ghosts and psychics harder than anything except Flare Blitz, and it's the best option for finishing off weakened stuff because of the 100% accuracy. It's more useful than you think.
and that is a risk you run when you use any poke weak to pursuit
This. I'm not particularly worried about Latios getting Pursued out when I have to worry about DDMence or Volcarona sweeping my team. If Latios revenges a particular threat, it has done its job, and if they manage to set up again to such a threatening point I've been outplayed.
Not so much when you have Specs-boosted attacks capable of tearing through most Pokemon that might otherwise have a decent shot at trapping you with Pursuit.
Either way, though, that's just a reason to use Hydre. I'd say it's one more reason to use Hydre, but it's the same reason people have been bringing up over and over again.
But it isn't a big enough deal to justify the fighting weak
That is true in some circumstances and false in others.
It doesn't make its resistance to Pursuit it not a point in favor of Hydre.
That is true. But Latios still seems significantly ahead points-wise
As I have said repeatedly, overall "points" are irrelevant. Hydre has uses, good ones. That is all that matters.
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