Osama Bin Laden Killed

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Trax said:
The second Barbary war was over in 1815 and then there was nothing going on involving the US in that part of the world for over 100 years. It's silly to pretend this is some epic ongoing conflict that has been going on longer than any person alive today has been living when in reality it's about 60 years old.
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It's also silly to regard only proximal causes when there are deep-seeded distal causes for mistrust. It's also silly to say that since we didn't declare war on anyone in the region, we (and I use this to mean white imperialist nations such as Britain, France, and the US) didn't have anything to do with the political changes taking place in that region.

You're right in that this comes about from us sticking our nose in places it doesn't belong, but it's not as recent a conflict as you seem to believe.
 
Chill Murray said:
It's also silly to say that since we didn't declare war on anyone in the region, we (and I use this to mean white imperialist nations such as Britain, France, and the US) didn't have anything to do with the political changes taking place in that region.
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I have clearly argued in agreement with this, however the reality is that we were not backing military dictatorships (or having issues with Piracy) in the Middle East between 1815 and 1950 and that we didn't have the issues we've been having since the Iran Embassy Hostage situation back then either - it's one of those funny things where we didn't fuck with people and they didn't blow themselves up in crowded places.


Chill Murray said:
You're right in that this comes about form us sticking our nose in places it doesn't belong, but it's not as recent a conflict as you seem to believe.
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Disagree entirely, the fact is that for over 150 years we had no issues with terrorism from the middle east, then after we fucked with the Iranian peoples right to self determination out of greed and stupidity there was a massive backlash and we've been having problems ever since.
 
man i just saw this.

Really surprised me he was hiding in some mansion when they were searching for 10 years like idiots in afghanistan.

good riddance
 
No. 1 Machop Fan said:
Fixed. Remember, there is such a thing as "outside America". It's not just some PS3 game -_-
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Don't recall it being a team of United Nations Navy Seals that took him down.

(I am being a bit facetious here, while the final push was made by Americans other countries allied with us were instrumental in us getting this far.)

Trax said:
Disagree entirely, the fact is that for over 150 years we had no issues with terrorism from the middle east, then after we fucked with the Iranian peoples right to self determination out of greed and stupidity there was a massive backlash and we've been having problems ever since.
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I think you're thinking at least 25 years too recently. The establishment of Israel didn't earn us any favors with the Muslim world. I think a large part of the backlash against the Iranian affair was the fact that these people were finally getting the means to lash back effectively in the first place. Technology that was not there in 1945 or 1918 even became available as time went on.
 
I'm still skeptical of his death, but what the hell, lets enjoy the party. If you live in America and own a gun, go outside and shoot a couple of times in the air.
This has shown we(America) get shit done.
Bandit Keith is proud to be an American.
 
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here's my theory: osama leaks his address to a courier who's already a known defector, then gets killed. when the whole of washington d.c. is out partying on ground zero, a light aircraft plummets down, killing many. in the black box is a recording by the REAL osama (not his BODY DOUBLE), taunting the US that "the game's still up, bitches". the defector courier is sent to a celebratory party in islamabad but it's actually al-qaeda in disguise and he gets beheaded for his treachery. Osama-2, USA-0.

anyway, gg.
 
Bin Laden is dead. This is a good day.

Btw. Trax I'm just curious: What did Spain do to piss off the Islamists? Their was that whole train bombing incident. Blame the US all you want for the overthrow of the Shah, it has limited basis in reality as the central cause for any action in the Middle East. Palestine was eradicated from the earth for over 400 years, yet still the "Palestinians" are laying claim to Israel and blowing themselves up over it.

Point being: The Islamists don't care about history, they care about power. Their goal is to establish an Islamic caliphate (using their definition of Islam and a new rebirth of divine right to rule). If they don't have real historic events to use as a pretext, they'll just make something up. Your insistence the US brought this upon itself because of the overthrow of the Shah does nothing more than enable the terrorists to work from the inside of the country by pretending there is some rational justification for their actions. There is not. The Middle East has been at war with itself and the surrounding areas since before the time of Rome. Suicide Bombs are merely used because they are the most effective concealable weapon for a warrior culture steeped in the glorification of martyrdom. They are merely a symptom of a relatively new movement in global terrorism. When martyrdom wasn't as chic they used old fashioned AK-47s and whatever tanks they had developed, and before gunpowder there was always the reliable sabre.

And one of these Islamist punks is now dead, a big fish named Osama Bin Laden. True it probably would have been better if we took him alive because of the martyrdom, but his capture would have been trumped up anyway. Al Queda and their ilk is not run by a bunch of Middle Eastern hayseeds. Many of them are physicians and other professionals with advanced degrees. They use the pretense of religion for their own agenda, which is why all efforts must be made to identify them as Islamists, not Muslims. They are different and must be treated as such.

I hope Zawahiri is next.

Oh and Morm: There is no "separation of church and state" in the US constitution. That terminology is from a letter of Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists in which Jefferson was, ironically given the phrases common usage as a bludgeon against the religious, arguing against state incursions into religious activity.

The first Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That first bit only means that Congress cannot establish an official religion of the United States, like the Anglican Church is the official religion of Great Britain. The Constitution is a document of restrictions on the power of government. (The Tenth Amendment explicitly states that all powers not enumerated in the federal Constitution belong to the states or to the people) In no way would it erect a barrier between the free exercise of religion (which for many religions means voting with your values and influencing legislation based on them) and eligibility for office or any other duty of an elected official.
 
Chill Murray said:
I think you're thinking at least 25 years too recently. The establishment of Israel didn't earn us any favors with the Muslim world. I think a large part of the backlash against the Iranian affair was the fact that these people were finally getting the means to lash back effectively in the first place. Technology that was not there in 1945 or 1918 even became available as time went on.
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There are very few technologies used by terrorists that didn't exist in 1950 that exist now, you severely underestimate the anti-US sentiment the Iranian situation caused - that region went from being unfriendly to outright hostile in a 30 year span (1945-1975), not coincidentally when we started fucking it up.


Deck Knight said:
Btw. Trax I'm just curious: What did Spain do to piss off the Islamists? Their was that whole train bombing incident. Blame the US all you want for the overthrow of the Shah, it has limited basis in reality as the central cause for any action in the Middle East. Palestine was eradicated from the earth for over 400 years, yet still the "Palestinians" are laying claim to Israel and blowing themselves up over it.
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It's well documented that was not al Qaeda but rather a homegrown terrorist group, no different to the Black Liberation Army, the IRA, the Jewish Defense League or any other group of whackjobs you care to name blowing shit up in their own country without outside assistance. To be clear, I'm not saying the events in Iran are the only cause, but it sure as hell was what started off this whole sorry chain of events.
 
It's nice to see all the patriotism flaring up, it's just sad that it only happens in extreme circumstances. I'm glad the victims and families of September 11 finally get some kind of justice for what happened, though I admit the backlash to this is going to be daunting.


Also, didn't Omar die with bin Laden? All the news sites are saying he, his couriers, and his son all ahve been confirmed dead.
 
I love my cute little Machop!

Come on, you know Machop is cute! I mean, who couldn't love those endearing eyes? That adorable face? That loving embrace?

Just don't call it cuddly or else it will hurt you.
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Desperately hoping this is true...even if it changes nothing. I found out in Psychology class today, and was all "Whoa, this can't be real!"

So let's all hope it is.

Even if his followers rise up in defense.
 
min min said:
here's my theory: osama leaks his address to a courier who's already a known defector, then gets killed. when the whole of washington d.c. is out partying on ground zero, a light aircraft plummets down, killing many. in the black box is a recording by the REAL osama (not his BODY DOUBLE), taunting the US that "the game's still up, bitches". the defector courier is sent to a celebratory party in islamabad but it's actually al-qaeda in disguise and he gets beheaded for his treachery. Osama-2, USA-0.

anyway, gg.
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End to Saw 8.

But I find it sort of messed up that people are partying over this. He deserved it, but I won't through a party over it...
 
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