League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

Don't worry Rodan, the meta at level 30 isn't any better...



Yes, that really is a Jungle Ashe.

And a support Jarvan.

Kinneas said:
just had an opportunity to watch the IEM EU qualifiers Sk vs Empire, which is where the Nunu Karthus combo clip is from. Have a look at the series if you have the time because some of the team comps and plays by Empire are wonderful. It's not often you get to see Candy Panda manhandled by Urgot and Magic Pen Malphite.
Watched those games the other day, too. Impressive how good some of the lesser known EU teams are. I'd be surprised if we see anything as exciting during the US qualifiers this weekend -- TSM, CLG, Epik, and Dignitas are a pretty significant jump ahead of everyone else -- but Kiev itself should be fun.
 
Hi, sup guys, a level 27 newbie here. Just wondering, what's it like when you start playing your placement games in ranked? (Compared to normals?) Is the standard of play generally a lot higher or what?
Your first ranked games are actually quite similar to current draft mode normal games. I recommend you play a lot of those if you haven't already or if you're just used to blind pick. The level of play is a little higher and people are more serious since rating is at stake, which means that you'll see more rage but at the same time, will have more satisfying games (in general). Overall it shouldn't be that different from draft pick normal games - just beware of trolls, which are more frequent in ranked.



First impression build on Volibear after watching Chaox/HotshotGG play him:

-Start with Cloth Armor in general. Boots start is fine against ranged or squishier opponents. Regrowth may be viable.
-Rush a Wriggle's to give him much-needed pushing power along with his already fast attack speed from W. The lifesteal helps immensely for lane sustain.
-Then go Spirit Visage for massive sustain (helps when Heal baiting) or rush Warmog's after to push an early advantage.
-Atma's Impaler is next.
-Standard items that afford both health and defensive/utility stats come next - Shurelya's, Banshee's Veil, Randuin's Omen, etc.
-Wit's End seems like a strong item.

Alternatively you can go for an early Philo/HoG if you're having a hard time in lane. Transition into Spirit Visage (optional) into Warmog's/Atma's/Shurelya's.

0/21/9 masteries.
attack speed marks
scaling health/flat armor seals
flat/scaling magic resist glyphs
attack speed/AD/movespeed quints

Run any two from Flash/Heal/Exhaust/Teleport/Ghost.
 
Remember that when you start ranked you are in the same pool as everyone else who starts rank (which begins at a low elo). This means there's high chances you get paired with the worst of the worst of LoL; people who play unconventional characters, people who call mid when they are last pick, people that rage quit, people that don't even own runes etc.

Thorns said this when I asked about ranked and I really think its true: play to your own strength and don't focus on team composition too much. If your team is missing a jungler and you can't jungle to save a life, don't force yourself to just go top lane. I've lost a few games where the enemy team didn't have a jungler. I have 0% win rate for all my support classes because I force myself into the team comp mindset. I have decent win rates however, with my favourite ad carry, mid and bruiser champions.

Is Volibear's W based on his health like Olaf or remaining enemy champion health? If it's the former, it sounds like another generic atmogs/FoN bruiser top
 
which actually makes it pretty interesting cause he can turn around fights pretty quickly and end them before the enemy can run after they realise they're going to die

from what i've witnessed, 1v1ing volibear is very risky, but of course if you shut him down early he won't get his durability items and you can ignore him
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
<LonelyNess> ok so I just realized everyone who goes AD Quints
<LonelyNess> is retarded
<LonelyNess> -_-
<LonelyNess> you get more AD going
<LonelyNess> 3 ArP Quints + 2 ArP Reds + 7 AD Reds
<LonelyNess> than you do
<LonelyNess> 9 ArP Reds + 3 AD Quints
<LonelyNess> and you get the same amount of ArP

:justin:
 
Volibear has quickly become one of those heroes I don't like playing against very much... I feel like his output is a little too high relative to offensive items needed to do damage. His skillset is the sort of thing that would be annoying anyway with the whole gapcloser+fling thing but the whole scales with own hp + execute effect thing on his W is pretty absurd since he obliterates people with it when used well with just tank stats and CDR.



However I thought this was hilarious: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofleg..._what_happens_when_there_is_a_volibear_and_a/





Really not enjoying the XP rate in current jungle. Haven't jungled much myself, but observing from lane the opportunity cost for attempting a gank seems too high and can too easily put the junglers almost irreversibly behind, and free farming a faster respawning jungle doesn't seem like it even gives as much XP as you'd expect it to relative to old jungle or lanes. I feel like junglers without a lot of movespeed or aoe damage(or preferably both) are way too easy to fall behind on right now. There's a relatively small pool consisting of Udyr, Skarner, Maokai, Shyvana, and Rammus that can probably keep reasonably close without hitting every gank because of speed/aoe (just amazing aoe in Maokai's case, only lost like 20s to 4 since last patch) but I think it hurts the viable choices in serious matches a lot(or viable choices period for most of us I guess). I know saint and some of the other junglers were talking about how it was almost worth it to run a duo lane top instead of a jungle and Jatt posted on Reddit that it might start looking more like roaming a few months ago where ganks could still happen a few levels down because of CC which is something I've seen pulled off quite a lot in our games so far (Cath played Jungle Alistar in all but two or three games we played today and put up pretty gaudy scores ganking, though XPwise he was only staying about level with me as the support). I feel like some of the other typical jungle types that don't have those qualities will fall off too much, notably champs like Fiddlesticks who weren't particularly strong at the jungle part of jungling to begin with.

I'm hoping with a few more days people will figure out some tricks beyond "hope laners overextend left and right and you convert all your ganks" to stay at a reasonable level but if not I may have to suck it up and buy Shyvana to give me some jungle variety as Maokai doesn't have enough damage output in ganks for my tastes and I'm not sure Udyr, Skarner, and Rammus are enough for me !







EDIT: Also on the ranked thing I think in spite of the fire you'll get from your team for it that it's way more important to play something you're good at that necessarily the perfect fit for your team, though it's tough to win without a jungle and support once your ELO climbs at all. I've been tanking my rating a bit lately by not making a big enough difference in games but at least speaking from the trainwrecks I've been seeing in the bronze range I'm surprised at how many games I've won where my teammates made horrible matchup and team composition choices because their opponents were playing champs they weren't very experienced with(usually FOTM) and they picked something they actually knew how to play. I remember a Vlad I'm pretty sure had some sort of serious mental disorder roasting some super sustainy bruiser top, Katarina feeding on a Morgana when the other team had tons of CC and still getting like 15 kills and drawing a surrender, and just yesterday I had a guy rage pick Twitch because our low ELO demanded solo top and then dominated a Graves/Soraka lane with his Twitch+my Alistar. I think in general in solo queue it's good not to get too worried about the result of individual games anyway, just gotta try and do your job well every time and it's easier to do that with champs you know.


Also while I'm posting everything I thought about posting the past week or so anyway, I'm not enjoying the whole Ranked 5 man queue thing very much right now. I think in about a month it'll be a good time, but ELO is hilariously unrepresentative right now which is making it really difficult to get a good match. I've seen teams in the 1150-1250 range that are full of Platinum Solo Queue players and teams in that range that can barely last hit. We started out 4-1 and have only been about even since because it seems like one game we get players similarly ranked to us in solo queue and outplay them (bronze/silver range) and then the next game everyone on the other team is Gold/Plat and we're just not playing at a level across our team that's competitive with that most games. I guess at least getting better teams the replays are a lot more useful to try to learn from, but we've played like 12 games and I don't think we've actually had a game where the result was in question after the 10 minute mark yet, in our favor or against it. We've gotten some annoying stuff like getting teams 150~ rating ahead of us and getting the same team full of Platinums twice in three games... I wish that they'd let queue times go a bit longer and create better matchups.
 

LonelyNess

Makin' PK Love
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I blame the runepage UI for leading me to believe the combination of runes I laid out was better since it said the ArP was the same.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Volibear has quickly become one of those heroes I don't like playing against very much... I feel like his output is a little too high relative to offensive items needed to do damage. His skillset is the sort of thing that would be annoying anyway with the whole gapcloser+fling thing but the whole scales with own hp + execute effect thing on his W is pretty absurd since he obliterates people with it when used well with just tank stats and CDR.
No kidding, I just played Fizz for the first time and went 12/6, but I was like 4/4 in lane because of Volibear. At one point I said to the player I'm skyping with "I don't have to worry about him attacking me, I have playful up". Then he turned around and took out the remaining 30% of my health. This increased to like 50% mid game and I even had Rod of Ages.

If he only needs tank stats to do well, how do you think he'd work with Tanky AP? He has no AD ratios, but two AP ratios.
 
Really not enjoying the XP rate in current jungle. Haven't jungled much myself, but observing from lane the opportunity cost for attempting a gank seems too high and can too easily put the junglers almost irreversibly behind, and free farming a faster respawning jungle doesn't seem like it even gives as much XP as you'd expect it to relative to old jungle or lanes. I feel like junglers without a lot of movespeed or aoe damage(or preferably both) are way too easy to fall behind on right now. There's a relatively small pool consisting of Udyr, Skarner, Maokai, Shyvana, and Rammus that can probably keep reasonably close without hitting every gank because of speed/aoe (just amazing aoe in Maokai's case, only lost like 20s to 4 since last patch) but I think it hurts the viable choices in serious matches a lot(or viable choices period for most of us I guess). I know saint and some of the other junglers were talking about how it was almost worth it to run a duo lane top instead of a jungle and Jatt posted on Reddit that it might start looking more like roaming a few months ago where ganks could still happen a few levels down because of CC which is something I've seen pulled off quite a lot in our games so far (Cath played Jungle Alistar in all but two or three games we played today and put up pretty gaudy scores ganking, though XPwise he was only staying about level with me as the support). I feel like some of the other typical jungle types that don't have those qualities will fall off too much, notably champs like Fiddlesticks who weren't particularly strong at the jungle part of jungling to begin with.

I'm hoping with a few more days people will figure out some tricks beyond "hope laners overextend left and right and you convert all your ganks" to stay at a reasonable level but if not I may have to suck it up and buy Shyvana to give me some jungle variety as Maokai doesn't have enough damage output in ganks for my tastes and I'm not sure Udyr, Skarner, and Rammus are enough for me !
I agree with your assesment of Volibear, not much to add, he's pretty unbalanced currently and I hope they fix him soon. As for the jungle, I agree that it is very difficult to keep up with lanes in terms of gold and exp, even the duo lane. The amount of gold each jungle camp given does not even scale appropriately into the late game, so you will be stuck falling further and further behind as the game goes on. I had success with Nocturne in a game I just played with other smogon dudes, but that was largely because I had several successful ganks early and the other team was pretty bad. I thought the same thing about just sending two people top, although I'm not sure how sucessful a two "support" team would work out with two characters having significantly less gold than the other players in the game.
 
They make every champion that people buy them. They then nerf them so that they are normal. It's one of the ways they boost the sale of RP. Look at champs like graves and hermindinger. Lots of people complained that they were broken (herm defiantly was) and next patch, after riot made a lot of money off them they were nerfed
 
jungle is _awful_, might as well have duo top because in its current state you can't even keep up with the duo bot lane if you even step outside for one minute to gank something

counterjungling actually HURTS you unless it's a buff in which case it fucks over the other jungler so hard it's not even funny

i have no clue what riot were thinking when they made these changes, sure it spawns faster but you lose so much from missing a camp (and you gain so little from taking one down). the heal from the camps isn't even noticeable.

revert the changes, the jungle is not viable anymore
 
jungle is _awful_, might as well have duo top because in its current state you can't even keep up with the duo bot lane if you even step outside for one minute to gank something

counterjungling actually HURTS you unless it's a buff in which case it fucks over the other jungler so hard it's not even funny

i have no clue what riot were thinking when they made these changes, sure it spawns faster but you lose so much from missing a camp (and you gain so little from taking one down). the heal from the camps isn't even noticeable.

revert the changes, the jungle is not viable anymore
"Jungle updates inbound; see update here!" you mean like this? I'm too low lv to jungle anyway :(
 
Volibear is incredibly irritating to fight, especially if they build Sv and take heal. You literally can't kill him. Ignite him all you want, he will heal up massively. I have begun trying to ignore him in fights, but he does too much damage to do that. I just want to ban him every game
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
If he only needs tank stats to do well, how do you think he'd work with Tanky AP? He has no AD ratios, but two AP ratios.
He'll do ass with Tanky AP. If you tried building RoA and Rylai's you'd be LOWERING the damage output you can do if you go AD. It's really almost astoundingly sad how low his scaling is. You can only deal the .6 ratio every 6 seconds, and the .3 ratio for 12 seconds is less damage than an Atmog's and Youmuu's plus the same spell. Not to mention tanky AP doesn't build as much Health as an Atmog's build can, which increases the power of his W even further.

P.S. Every spell that says "his next attack deals bonus damage" has an AD ratio of 1:1. His Q is one of those spells.


As for the jungle changes, the power of a jungler is now about how long they can stay in the jungle, and how effective their ganks can be, otherwise they get too far behind in experience. I've played Malphite and Volibear with the jungle changes and had very successful games because I ganked effectively and made sure that kills were received from them. You can no longer gank with soft CC only, as you'll have difficulty netting the kill.

If they adjust the jungle at all, they should only increase the exp VERY SLIGHTLY, because it will snowball out of control given the fast respawn times.

As it stands, I really prefer it the way it is now. I've always hated the demands of the jungle, and how limited the choices are to jungle with. Now I can play a lot of my favorite champs with ease (Hard CC tanky champs), and contribute well.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
If he only needs tank stats to do well, how do you think he'd work with Tanky AP? He has no AD ratios, but two AP ratios.
He has no AD ratios minus the whole part where basic attacks have a 1:1 AD ratio, you dig? That includes his Q, which is just an auto-attack modifier. W and R require auto-attacking to work. Auto-attacking means you're taking advantage of AD.

That said, he doesn't really "need" AD any more than he needs AP (his two AP ratios still suck ass). It's more like his best skill scales with bonus HP anyway, then Atma's becomes stupid efficient and there's no excuse for not buying it at that point. A "real" Armor item (read: Thornmail, Frozen Heart, Randuin's) would probably do you better if you want more Armor still. His ult scales off AS way better than it does AP, hence Wit's End being a common mention. It's gonna give you better damage output than, say, Abyssal as your MR item of choice. Force of Nature would also be better for the movespeed and very high regen off your HP stacking. The only place where there's any real leeway is Health and you really should have a Warmog's. A second Warmog's is kinda silly though, it's conceivable to go RoA as a second major Health item and I also think Rylai's is better than Frozen Mallet.

Anyway, work calls, I'll get to the rest of the posts later. ;( Also will read Synre's link and probably feel foolish or something.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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Not that I ain't convinced, but mentioning auto attacks as an ad ratio is not half as clever as you guys seem to think it is, or did you forget that mages have auto attacks too?

AP adds quite a bit more damage potential to his ult than AD does, but you are right about Wit's End, which alone would add just under 2000 damage over the duration of his ult. It looks like tanky as is the way to go.
 
Mages tend to not have on-hit abilities though so it's not the same at all.

I disagree that AP adds more damage to his ult than AD. 1AP adds 0.9 to the damage his ult does while 1AD adds 1 to the damage. And the 0.9 from AP is spread out over two people (who may not even be there) other than who you're trying to burst down whereas the 1 from AD is all on the same guy. It's always better to burst one person down to death than lose a team fight to a bunch of almost dead people.

EDIT: @vF I wasn't thinking about it in terms of Volibear so you're right on that if it doesn't reset his AA. Seems weird that it doesn't. Does he fling them out of AA range? You didn't respond to the bottom half of my post. Was interested in your response.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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Volibear's fling has an ad ratio in the same sense that Blitz's pull, Amumu's bandage toss, or Leona's blade do. It doesn't reset his auto-attack or anything.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
All three of those abilities have a base magic damage and scale off AP; they don't scale off AD at all. Volibear's fling is a simple auto-attack modifier, so it effectively has a 1.0 AD ratio. Not-the-same-thing.

As for the snide remark about mage auto-attacks, they tend to have lower base attack speed and base damage (notable exceptions being Kassadin and Kennen) plus, you know, a bunch of AP ratios on their spells that encourage building AP instead. ;[ Volibear's total AP ratios are a little more than Graves, less than Corki... do you build them AP? I hope not! And two of his abilities are only active while auto-attacking (W and R).

Good to see I didn't miss much after all but I'm just on my lunch break, still have to read that reddit link... ;o
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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All three of those abilities cause you to auto-attack, Volibear's Q doesn't even do that unless you count needing to chase someone down to hit them. Volibear's Q affects the next auto-attack but it's not an auto-attack reset so you aren't doing any more damage off of your ad than you would be if you had no q at all. It's like if you said Fizz's W has a 1.0 ad ratio (or Kassadin's for that matter). Ratio's exist to make an an ability stronger. Graves' Q does more damage with AD. An auto-attack reset is an instant 1.0 ratio. 1000 ad does not make Volibear's Q better at all, you'd be better off arguing that his W scales with ad because it gives attack speed.

Now I was far past the notion of building Volibear on AP as a result of that reddit post, but c'mon.

EDIT: @vF I wasn't thinking about it in terms of Volibear so you're right on that if it doesn't reset his AA. Seems weird that it doesn't. Does he fling them out of AA range? You didn't respond to the bottom half of my post. Was interested in your response.
I don't think he flings them out of AA range, but it's certainly not adding damage past its flat amount. Anyway, you are right about the AD vs. AP bit, but I think a Wit's End is probably the way to go to maximize damage without forgoing tank stats after doing the math there.
 

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