Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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Well, there's no item to extend it right now beyond 5 turns. So, by the time you bring Raichu in, you blew a fifth of your time
I was thinking about Doubles or Triples, so I didn't think about switching. In singles, you have Volt Switch which makes this better. From a casual stand point, sounds fun. From a competitive stand point, we have no idea what the Gen VII will be like so it's not worth talking about. (Also, I don't want this to become locked.)
Hmm... but I don't know if there's any spread Electric attack that doesn't hurt teammates, aside of Discharge that does. Maybe if Tapu Koko could handle the heat from it's own friend and/or there's another good Lightning Rod or Motor Drive or Volt Absorb users that's not as frail as Jolteon, I can foresee a good alternative Triples team. Immunity against paralysis is great, although the third member will need Tailwind and still be threatened by Trick Room (ugh)....

... uhh, sorry, I often do Triples so this kind of intrigued me.
Disclaimer: My experience with triples is mostly spamming Scarfed Eruption, MegaZard-Y's Heat Wave, and Screaming Solar Powered Lizard's Hyper Voice, but that got me to over 700 wins in the Mansion somehow. Rather you should take my word as stuff from Triples expert or Noob is up to you. (I do not recommend treating me as a Triples expert.)

Other Disclaimer: This is Theory Crafting is for the Gen VII's Battle Mansion Equivalent. There might be some new moves or offensive Pokemon that would be worth mentioning if we knew about them, but until we do know more, I'm only planning with Tapu Koko, Psychic Riachu, and what's in Gen VI.

Offensive Spread Damage Electric Moves include Discharge, Electric Web, and Parabolic Charge. I can guess which one we'll use. Modest Mega Zard-Y and Modest Scarf Typhlosion can barley deal enough damage to KO most Pokemon, but Discharge should balance out to about the same power or more a bit more power when you apply the Power Boosting Items you can give the Electric Types. It might be good enough.
For Lightning Rod Pokemon that can use the Special Attack boost, there's Manectric, Riachu at the expense of using Psychic Riachu, the Zebra that's outclassed by the previous two Pokemon, and Mega-Sceptile. Manectic learns Flamethrower to take out the Grass Types that resist Discharge Spam, or if it's powerful enough that you can use a Power 70 Fire Type Move with it, Flame Burst to deal chip damage to the Pokemon next to it. I never thought I'd use that move, but it turns out that I might. Pure Electric Riachu gets Grass Knot, which surprisingly, has an okay Power of 60 against Dugtrio. You still get outspeed without speed boosts though. He might be worth using, but I want to use Psychic Riachu and the next option should make Prue Electric Riachu seem less tempting. Mega-Sceptile looks awesome. He's not only is immune to Electric, but his STABs hit Ground and Dragon Types. Unfortantly, he doesn't get any Special Spread Moves. (Togedemaru, the Electic/Steel Hedgehog Pika Clone and Fire/Ghost Marrowak gets an honorable mention because it has Lightning Rod, but we don't know if they're fast or powerful enough to be worth using. They probably aren't.)
Options that have Motor Drive include Electrivire, the Zebra that's outclassed by Vire, and a Squirrel. As much as I want a Squirrel to be good, your only good option is Vire, but you can't use his Psysical Attack for Electric Moves while it's next to a Pokemon with Lightning rod, so I don't think I'd use him.
Ground Types might sound tempting, but Ground STAB doesn't hit anything that resists Electric other than Electric itself and the only Spread Ground Moves ether hit teammates, or are signature moves.
One last thing I'd like to mention is Heliolisk's signature move, Electrify. Make a slower opponent's move an Electric one? OMG Yes! >:D


IMPORTANT EDIT: I did the math. This is only stronger than Sun Eruption/Heat Wave/Screaming Lizard Spam if Tapu Koku is Faster than Manectric and learns Discharge. (980 being Mega-Zard Y + Typhlosion's Effective Combined Power without counting the third Pokemon vs Electric Spam's Effective Power being 849 without counting Tapu Koko if you give Manctirc a Life Orb and Raichu a Choice Specs or 874 if you do vice versa.) As I said earlier, The Sun Spam was barely able to KO most threats, which means that if this is weaker, it's not going to 1 Turn KO almost everything. (The calcs were done using Pure Electric Riachu's Special Attack even though it's a safe bet that Psychic Riachu's Special Attack is higher.)
To make things worse, it's only stronger when everyone uses Discharge. Flash Fire isn't that bad with Sun Spam because the immunities won't immediately KO you.

The reason Electric Spam being weaker on Turn 1 is because Discharge sucks. If it was 100 Power like Heat Wave instead of 80, then Electric Spam would be stronger.
 
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I really hope that Raichu-A's shiny form is Silver so I can name mine Silver/Norrin after the Silvwr Surfer (heck I might do that with the normal form). I want to do an ingame run with a rain/electric terrain team.

I like the way that the villains look now that I can see the full, non-blurry artwork. Also it looks like there might actually be a plot.

Wishiwashi sounds familiar... http://liloandstitch.wikia.com/wiki/Wishy-Washy_(267) (wow so much of that show is suddenly coming back to me) I wonder if it gets a new fish every few levels or if it just unlocks the form at level 20. The second one would be stupid.
 
New leaks from 4 chan, idk I think it might be a fake.


CpiYZw4UMAEkfXD.jpg

Why does it say "vileplume" when the pokemon shown is bellosom?
 
Some people comment on the Pikachu attention, but it's of a variety I'm more receptive to.

Togedemaru is the obligatory Pika clone, but there at least looks to be more to it than the ones we've had in past gens. Unlike Plusle/Minun, it's not based around a gimmick, and unlike Emolga, Dedenne, and Pachirisu, it's not just some shitty electric type they randomly slap all over promotional material. I expect it to get similar treatment, but Lightning Rod/Iron Barbs are abilities that feel more unorthodox, even if it doesn't amount to much, and this thing's at least getting less exposure.

Mimikyuu to me almost feels like a jab at the Pika-clone trend: it's a small, unimpressive looking mon trying to get people to love it by piggy backing off of Pikachu's fame and affection. That said, the design is adorable, and it's one of the many interesting new abilities this gen. Last time we got a non-Electric pseudo Pika-clone (as some people consider the Marill line), it turned out pretty alright.

And now today we have Alolan Raichu. The fact that they chose to exhibit Raichu is what sticks out to me. It's almost a certainty there will be an Alola form for the Pre-evolution, but instead of slapping Pikachu on the announcement they chose to exhibit Raichu alone. If nothing else, it's Gamefreak acknowledging "okay, we overplayed Pikachu, we remembered Raichu exists for you fans". Raichu's neglect has been a running gag/trend in the fandom for several gens, so it's nice to see it thrown an unironic bone, especially since it was one of my favorite of the 1st Gen mon designs (and probably another reason I got sick of Pikachu so fast). Also helps that, if not perhaps the most competitively viable, the new typing looks fun and that design is adorable.
 
I was thinking about Doubles or Triples, so I didn't think about switching. In singles, you have Volt Switch which makes this better. From a casual stand point, sounds fun. From a competitive stand point, we have no idea what the Gen VII will be like so it's not worth talking about. (Also, I don't want this to become locked.)

Disclaimer: My experience with triples is mostly spamming Scarfed Eruption, MegaZard-Y's Heat Wave, and Screaming Solar Powered Lizard's Hyper Voice, but that got me to over 700 wins in the Mansion somehow. Rather you should take my word as stuff from Triples expert or Noob is up to you. (I do not recommend treating me as a Triples expert.)

Other Disclaimer: This is Theory Crafting is for the Gen VII's Battle Mansion Equivalent. There might be some new moves or offensive Pokemon that would be worth mentioning if we knew about them, but until we do know more, I'm only planning with Tapu Koko, Psychic Riachu, and what's in Gen VI.

Offensive Spread Damage Electric Moves include Discharge, Electric Web, and Parabolic Charge. I can guess which one we'll use. Modest Mega Zard-Y and Modest Scarf Typhlosion can barley deal enough damage to KO most Pokemon, but Discharge should balance out to about the same power or more a bit more power when you apply the Power Boosting Items you can give the Electric Types. It might be good enough.
For Lightning Rod Pokemon that can use the Special Attack boost, there's Manectric, Riachu at the expense of using Psychic Riachu, the Zebra that's outclassed by the previous two Pokemon, and Mega-Sceptile. Manectic learns Flamethrower to take out the Grass Types that resist Discharge Spam, or if it's powerful enough that you can use a Power 70 Fire Type Move with it, Flame Burst to deal chip damage to the Pokemon next to it. I never thought I'd use that move, but it turns out that I might. Pure Electric Riachu gets Grass Knot, which surprisingly, has an okay Power of 60 against Dugtrio. You still get outspeed without speed boosts though. He might be worth using, but I want to use Psychic Riachu and the next option should make Prue Electric Riachu seem less tempting. Mega-Sceptile looks awesome. He's not only is immune to Electric, but his STABs hit Ground and Dragon Types. Unfortantly, he doesn't get any Special Spread Moves. (Togedemaru, the Electic/Steel Hedgehog Pika Clone and Fire/Ghost Marrowak gets an honorable mention because it has Lightning Rod, but we don't know if they're fast or powerful enough to be worth using. They probably aren't.)
Options that have Motor Drive include Electrivire, the Zebra that's outclassed by Vire, and a Squirrel. As much as I want a Squirrel to be good, your only good option is Vire, but you can't use his Psysical Attack for Electric Moves while it's next to a Pokemon with Lightning rod, so I don't think I'd use him.
Ground Types might sound tempting, but Ground STAB doesn't hit anything that resists Electric other than Electric itself and the only Spread Ground Moves ether hit teammates, or are signature moves.
One last thing I'd like to mention is Heliolisk's signature move, Electrify. Make a slower opponent's move an Electric one? OMG Yes! >:D
Eh... I am also playing it and reached almost 800 streaks with Mega Water Spout. I remembered you were just few streaks short below me, so I at least know you are good in House Triples. (Wasn't it me who suggested to try Tailwind long time ago and called your team like fiery hell? Or am I confusing someone else?) I'll be interested.

True enough though, the options are limited. If there are good Ground Type with good coverage, that might help, but I'm still unsure. For the third member there has to be something that can take care of the things that resist them, make Tailwind support if possible, or at least be very powerful enough to take down threats. Mega-Sceptile sounds like good because Tapu Koko and Raichuu can just spam Discharge while he snipes one particular threat. With Raichu's double speed, won't MegaSceptile at least get one boost to KO someone when it attacks?

Considering it's vs AI, maybe Sejun Pachirisu can be used for redirection support and just well... lulz. Not counting on it, but for lulz....

Yeah, at least this is what I can see from current situation. I don't know how the meta will be in next Generation and what kind of tactic is great will be great in scoring high streaks in Battle Tower equivalent.
 
From what we've seen so far, it's pretty clear that with TapuKoko and Alolan Raichu, Electric Terrain is gonna be really hype for VGC 2017. Toss in Politoed (or another Rain user if Politoed isn't in the Alola dex)
Thankfully a Japanese trailer has Politoed as an opponent in battle so it's most likely in the Dex. Shows up at 2:49
 
It's almost a certainty there will be an Alola form for the Pre-evolution, but instead of slapping Pikachu on the announcement they chose to exhibit Raichu alone.

I disagree that it's almost a certainty. In fact I think it's very unlikely. Pikachu (in its normal form) has already been exhibited in several of the trailers (for Z-Moves, those 4-player battles, etc.). So far in the Sun/Moon promotional material, no Pokémon that has an Alolan form has been shown in its original form in gameplay. But also, I just don't think GameFreak wants to mess with Pikachu's iconic look. I can imagine it getting a new cosplay outfit or something, but not an Alolan form.
 
Wow, Electric Terrain gets a speed doubling ability before Hail! WTG GF,

Also, I guess we should be happy Wishiwashi gets a null ability instead of an nerf ability like Defeatist or Truant?
Because if it only trips in when the Pokemon gets to a certain level it's basically evolution by another name.
I do like the school form though, It's huge and looks very threatening.
 
Eh... I am also playing it and reached almost 800 streaks with Mega Water Spout. I remembered you were just few streaks short below me, so I at least know you are good in House Triples. (Wasn't it me who suggested to try Tailwind long time ago and called your team like fiery hell? Or am I confusing someone else?) I'll be interested.
Yep, that was me. I'm having trouble getting past two or three hundrend, so I'm thinking I may have gotten lucky. I lost recently, so I might as well try out Tailwind.
True enough though, the options are limited. If there are good Ground Type with good coverage, that might help, but I'm still unsure. For the third member there has to be something that can take care of the things that resist them, make Tailwind support if possible, or at least be very powerful enough to take down threats. Mega-Sceptile sounds like good because Tapu Koko and Raichu can just spam Discharge while he snipes one particular threat. With Raichu's double speed, won't MegaSceptile at least get one boost to KO someone when it attacks?
Wait, Riachu in the lead spot? Oh yeah! Tapu Koko isn't a Mega so Riachu gets the speed boost from Turn 1! Thanks for making me realize that. I am so useing Manectric as my middle lead. If they programed the AI to be able to rage quit, I would get so many rage quits. >:D
 
Also, I guess we should be happy Wishiwashi gets a null ability instead of an nerf ability like Defeatist or Truant?
Because if it only trips in when the Pokemon gets to a certain level it's basically evolution by another name.

We don't really know exactly how it works, though. It's possible that it's more complex than it appears.

It could even be really simple and still be pretty different from an evolution. For instance, let's imagine that Schooling just straight-up doubles all of Wishiwashi's stats (except HP). That would give you a lot more flexibility to customize it's effective stats than just raising its base stats by a commensurate amount.
 
We don't really know exactly how it works, though. It's possible that it's more complex than it appears.

It could even be really simple and still be pretty different from an evolution. For instance, let's imagine that Schooling just straight-up doubles all of Wishiwashi's stats (except HP). That would give you a lot more flexibility to customize it's effective stats than just raising its base stats by a commensurate amount.
It could even double HP since Zygarde Complete gets a buffed HP stat in battle. I wouldn't be surprised if that extended to other Pokemon.
 
I just thought of something: Do you think we'll be able to import our Gen 6 Pokemon into Gen 7 and then evolve them into Alola Forms (assuming that Pikachu, Exeggcute and Marowak don't have Alola Forms themselves)? If we can, then we could potentially get Surf on Raichu-A which not only gives it great coverage (if it stays a Special Attacker), but it would also sense thematically.
 
It could even double HP since Zygarde Complete gets a buffed HP stat in battle. I wouldn't be surprised if that extended to other Pokemon.
At the same time, Zygarde's transformation is linked to the HP stat, so it may be limited to it at worst (and most likely) or other HP transformations at best (and least likely)
I just thought of something: Do you think we'll be able to import our Gen 6 Pokemon into Gen 7 and then evolve them into Alola Forms (assuming that Pikachu, Exeggcute and Marowak don't have Alola Forms themselves)? If we can, then we could potentially get Surf on Raichu-A which not only gives it great coverage (if it stays a Special Attacker), but it would also sense thematically.
Those 'mons aren't from Alola, so they wouldn't be adapted to it, would they?
 
As a small side-note, it'd be cool and I freaking hope they make an Alolan Raichu and attack is nerfed in replace of Special Attack. I'm freaking tired of my boy getting shafted because of Pikachu's popularity, hell it's dex entry can be "After years of it's younger brother getting all the loved, Raichu moved to the mountains and started adapting on special powers." It's a good start.
YES RAICHU SHOW YOUR LITTLE BROTHER THAT YOU ARE SUPERIOR. GET THE ATTENTION AFTER GETTING NO SPOTLIGHT SINCE POKEMON YELLOW.
 
That Mushroom pokemon seems to continue to prove that the chinese leaker is being truthful.
HOwever the troll pokemon Hambo an Harambe were circulating before that and are undoubtedly fake- the art is used as the model in-game
 
That Mushroom pokemon seems to continue to prove that the chinese leaker is being truthful.
HOwever the troll pokemon Hambo an Harambe were circulating before that and are undoubtedly fake- the art is used as the model in-game
Well, there were several leaks and only one or two specific leaks seem accurate among several fake-outs. Best to take the truth as it rolls out.

Speaking of fake-outs, after two or three close calls we finally got a Grass/Fairy, as our 4th mushroom pokemon too. I guess it's a reference to fairy circles (mushrooms that grow in a ring pattern).
 
Well, there were several leaks and only one or two specific leaks seem accurate among several fake-outs. Best to take the truth as it rolls out.

Speaking of fake-outs, after two or three close calls we finally got a Grass/Fairy, as our 4th mushroom pokemon too. I guess it's a reference to fairy circles (mushrooms that grow in a ring pattern).

Cottonee and Whimsicott are also Grass/Fairy.
 
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