Unpopular opinions

Fully agree on these games being too short, but just out of curiosity how is it taking you upwards of 70 hours to beat other games? Do you squeeze every single bit of side content? Completing the Pokedex?
I think it's because I battle literally every trainer and do every little side quest. BW2 have a lot of content which makes doing all that stuff time-consuming, but still fun.

Platinum itself errs on the lengthier side of Pokemon games but bc HGSS level curve is awful with no good training spots to compensate, I usually end up having to trade pokes from SS to Plat to grind for the Elite Four + Lance since the Sinnoh games have the VS Seeker, so that adds up to a few hours.

I'll admit I completely skip the routes from Lavendar Town/ Celadon City to Fuchsia City and Mount Moon. HGSS Kanto being as bare-boned as it is gives me little incentive to battle these trainers ibr
 
I wanted to make a post here to summarize all of my unpopular opinions about HG/SS. These games are almost universally praised and they don't get anywhere near enough of the criticism they deserve, so I'm going to give them some of it. I have posted most of these unpopular opinions in various posts earlier in this thread, but there are also some new ones that I have never posted here before. I have been thinking about making a post like this for a while, but I had originally decided to not make it since it felt pointless. So why am I doing it now? Because of a discussion I had with Yung Dramps a while ago. He encouraged me and convinced me to do this, so I want to give my thanks to him for that.

To start with, I disliked the following Pokémon feature in HG/SS. It was horribly executed, added nothing to the gameplay, slowed down the games and couldn't be turned off. It made my Pokémon feel more like slaves than friends or companions. There was nothing I liked about it. I have written a somewhat longer post regarding my thoughts about it here, decided to link to it instead of copypasting it into this post. Though there is one thing I should expand on that I didn't mention in that post. One more reason as for why I really dislike how the following Pokémon is constantly moving is that it seems to steal my attention and makes it hard for me to focus on other things in the game when my player character is standing still. On the whole, the following Pokémon is one of my least favorite features in the series, it was my very least favorite feature before Gen 7. I'm very happy that it has not been featured in any other main series except LGP/E (which I didn't play, though it seems to have been way better executed there from what I have understood). I hope this feature never returns in any proper Pokémon game in the future.

I'm not sure if this is unpopular, but it is at least an opinion I don't think I have seen posted anywhere in this thread before. I thought the trainer rematch system in HG/SS was really bad. It is actually my biggest issue with HG/SS, I consider it to be a bigger problem than the level curve, the Pokémon distribution or anything else in these games. So perhaps that's another unpopular opinion? The bad rematch system was also the reason as for why it took me five years before I finally got around to completing the Pokédex in HG/SS. I have often talked about it here on the forums before, I prefer to label it "the lack of training spots", though I suppose that is a bit incorrect since training spots do exist in the games, they are just very poorly executed. This is something I don't think the games get enough criticism for. I occasionally see people complain about having problems training in games with great training spots, yet everyone is apparently okay with this awful system in HG/SS? Personally, I couldn't stand it. First you had to receive the numbers from trainers, then you had to call them on specific times in order to get a rematch (and you can't be on the same route as the trainer in question when you call them since it won't work unless you are on a different route) and only after having gone through all that you can walk up to the trainer and talk to them in order to start a battle. I thought it was way too unnecessarily overcomplicated compared to the simpler means of training spots and trainer rematches that exist in other modern games. The Gym Leader rematches suffered from the same issue since they were also tied to this awful system with an added complication as you first had to find the Gym Leader at a specific time and place in order to get their number. I think this is one of the worst rematch systems in the series, I prefer the better systems in the better games, like the PokéNav and Secret Bases in the Hoenn games, the VS. Seeker in FR/LG and D/P/P, the Nimbasa Stadiums and Black Tower/White Treehollow in the Unova games, and the Battle Chateau in X/Y.

I thought the touch screen controls and menus in HG/SS were poorly done and not really worthy of any praise. They were very badly executed. I got enthusiastic at first since I thought it could be great like in other DS games I had played which made great use of the touch screen, but once I tried them in HG/SS, I found them to be really poorly done. They were slow and chunky, they slowed down everything regarding menus and selections. They were also very forced, it was hard to use the menus with the buttons like in other Pokémon games. The way the box system worked in HG/SS was really terrible as well, it did not utilize the touch screen controls well at all. I think the box system in HG/SS is the most inconvenient one in the series since the introduction of the new box system in R/S, the way it worked in HG/SS was beyond awful. I'm glad the Gen 5/6/7 games improved upon the touch screen controls for the menus and the boxes because it became really great in the end, it just had a very rough start.

I have never cared much for Silver as a rival or a character. I think his "character development" is massively overhyped. It is too little, too late, and way too much of it happens off-screen, notably some very interesting things that it would have been great if they actually showed the player, such as Silver trying to return his starter Pokémon to Professor Elm. I never really felt that Silver changed at any point during the game, I thought he was still too much of a jerk even during the post-game. I think he is a considerably less interesting rival than a majority of the other rivals, many who which have actual growth throughout their games. Silver is my second least favorite rival in the series, beaten only by Blue who I think is worse since he is literally just a jerk with no character development at all. I am also not a fan of jerk rivals in general if that wasn't obvious already, I prefer friendly rivals. Bede is the closest the series has gotten to a good jerk rival, but I think he could have been handled better too.

Not sure if this is unpopular, but I think the Johto games weren't all that great in terms of being sequels. While they did make Kanto different in many ways, it was not always for the better. To me, they never really felt like true sequels in the same way that B2/W2 did. I also don't like how they included Red in the games as an NPC. It just feels wrong because he is not really an NPC, he is supposed to be you - the player from the Kanto games. This might have worked if they have had some sort of Memory Link like in B2/W2, but since they didn't, it didn't work. In comparison, I think B2/W2 were much better when it came to being sequels. Apart from everything they had from the base game, they also had Memory Link which allowed you to see some flashback scenes, they also included the name you gave to your player character from B/W, which was amazing. You also never actually got to meet the player from the previous game, you just heard about them, which I prefer over meeting them as a silent NPC like Red. I'm also annoyed at how HG/SS featured Red but not Green/Leaf from FR/LG, I think she should have appeared as well alongside Red. I can kind of forgive G/S/C for failing at being sequels since they were supposed to be the last Pokémon games and they were still an early installment in the series, but HG/SS can't be forgiven because they had an excellent opportunity to improve upon this mistake from the originals, but they failed.

I said this rather recently in another post, but I'll say it again: I think HG/SS gets way too much credit for "keeping everything from Crystal", something they don't really deserve. Aside from the story parts, everything they kept from Crystal were either minor things, features that became standard in the series after Crystal had introduced them, or features that were standard in the series when HG/SS were released. And one important thing from Crystal that they didn't keep was the changes Crystal made to the Pokémon distribution, which is a shame since that is a big and important thing that would have made HG/SS better. And even if HG/SS kept "everything" from Crystal, that does not give them an excuse for having some of the biggest gameplay flaws in the series. In comparison, OR/AS often gets a lot of complaints for not keeping everything from Emerald, but I don't mind. I think OR/AS are good games even if they didn't keep everything from Emerald, they have great gameplay and much better executed content which makes them better games on the whole.

Another thing HG/SS often gets credit for which I don't think they deserve is the claim that improved upon G/S/C, which I don't think they did as they did basically nothing to fix the flaws from the originals. I think FR/LG and OR/AS did way more to improve upon their originals compared to what HG/SS did to improve upon G/S/C. HG/SS only did minor improvements at best, which was nowhere near enough to fix any of their massive gameplay issues.

I'm not super happy about how HG/SS copypasted the Platinum Battle Frontier. I'll admit that I have mixed opinions about this on the whole, but I'm definitely not as happy about it as many other fans seem to be. I like Battle Frontiers, but I think they should only appear once a generation at most. I don't mind single facilities being copypasted like the Maison to OR/AS, but copypasting a whole Frontier feels wrong. HG/SS had an excellent opportunity to do something new and innovative in terms of battle facilities, but they didn't. And even so, they could at least have done something to made the Frontier different from Platinum, like having different Frontier Brains, as well as new and different Stat Trainers to team up with in Multi battles. But they didn't, and that's a big shame. I'll give them props for one thing: the fact that they had the Frontier was good for those who wanted to give it a spin but didn't play Platinum. But that's the only thing I can think about that was relatively positive regarding this.

I wasn't very fond of having 2 regions in one game. It could have worked if it had been properly executed, but now it was a big failure because of the poor execution. Johto can't stand on its own because it relies on Kanto for post-game and final bosses, while Kanto is a shadow of its former self from R/B/Y and FR/LG, it feels more like wasteland than an actual region. There isn't a lot to do in Kanto, there's barely any story to motivate you to go through 8 more gyms, while the regular trainers and wild Pokémon are way too weak to give any sort of challenge or good training. The wild Pokémon in Kanto should definitely have been at higher levels, there's no reason you should face wild Pokémon at level 2 right next to the city which has a Gym Leader with a level 60 Pidgeot. In addition to this, Johto and Kanto often get credit for being "non-linear" or "open world", but I found them to be extremely poorly executed regarding this. They can't compare to actual non-linear or open world games, and I'd personally much rather play a game with a linear region that is executed well instead of a non-linear or more open region with a bad execution.

Adding in to the above, another unpopular opinion I have which is partly related is this: I think HG/SS has a lackluster post-game. They often get credit for having a good post-game or even for having the best post-game in the series, but I really disagree with that. They aren't anywhere near the greatness of games that actually have good post-games like B2/W2, Platinum and US/UM. I also think they are worse than other games like B/W, D/P, OR/AS, Emerald, FR/LG, X/Y and S/M. HG/SS didn't have a lot to do, and the few things they had were poorly executed for the most part. Kanto was just plain bad all around with basically no story as well as weak trainers and wild Pokémon. Trainer rematches were poorly executed as I talked about earlier. Completing the Pokédex wasn't very fun because of the bad Pokémon distribution/availability and the lack of good training spots. I didn't find the minigames very enjoyable, and the Battle Frontier was copypasted from Platinum. The Shiny Leaves took me about 20 minutes to complete and it wasn't very fun since I disliked the following Pokémon. The rest were just minor things that made no difference on the whole. The only things I liked were the large amount of legendaries to catch, and how breeding was mostly easier in HG/SS (the negative being that there was no good place to hatch eggs easily, at least I never found such a place). I think HG/SS have a bad post-game on the whole, and I find it massively overrated. I wouldn't say that it is the worst in the series, but if I were to rank the Pokémon games in terms of post-game, HG/SS would be closer to the bottom than the top.

I found the HM requirements in HG/SS to be very annoying, much worse than in the Sinnoh games or in any other games in the series. They were especially annoying when I tried to explore optional areas, such as a certain room in Mt. Mortar which required you to surf over a lot of small ponds over and over in order to get all items, or when you needed cut to access certain Apricorn trees. Another example is how you need Rock Climb in order to reach Red, something that is most likely forcing you to give up a team slot or at the very least a move slot on a team member. That feels like a good example of bad game design if you ask me. In comparison, the amount of HMs never annoyed me that much in the Sinnoh games. I also found it a lot more annoying to withdraw my HM slaves in HG/SS compared to other games just because of the awful box system and poorly utilized touch screen controls.

I always thought HG/SS felt very slow in terms of most things related to their gameplay, much slower than Platinum. While they didn't have any of the annoying delays that D/P suffered from, there were many other things that slowed down the games like the following Pokémon, the HM usage as well as the menus and the touch screen usage. HG/SS always felt slow to me, this was very noticeable when I went back to them after having played the newer games from Gen 5 and on. In comparison, Platinum never felt quite as slow when I went back to playing it after playing the newer games. While Gen 4 is fairly slow on the whole, I thought HG/SS were among the slowest games along with D/P, they were not as fast (relatively speaking) as Platinum.

Let's throw in a positive unpopular opinion in the mix! I really like the Dowsing Machine in HG/SS, I think it is by far the best feature in these games and one of the very few features in them that was properly executed since it actually worked very well. I always used it to look for and find hidden items while playing through these games. I think it is the second best Dowsing Machine in the series (the best one is of course the one in Gen 5). It is a shame that the rest of HG/SS weren't this well executed, it could have helped them a lot.

I talked a little about minigames earlier, so here's an unpopular opinion regarding that. I didn't like the Pokéathlon all that much. I think this is unpopular since it is often praised and many consider it to be their favorite minigame, but I disagree. I thought it was very badly done. A minigame that relies on touch screen usage, and then the touch screen doesn't properly react to your commands... that is basically an instant failure. I thought most of the events weren't very fun, and it often felt like the opponents were ganging up on me instead of making it fair with a split focus on the player and the other opponents. And from what I have understood, it is only because of the Pokéathlon that we got the awful following Pokémon feature, so that's another minus. While I don't think the Pokéathlon is the worst minigame in the series, it is definitely among the worse ones.

I didn't find HG/SS to be that good or impressive in terms of graphics. They often get praise for their graphics, but I disagree. When it comes to the main series games for the DS, I think that the Sinnoh games (Platinum especially) and the Gen 5 games are way more graphically impressive than HG/SS. The Johto remakes do have some pretty-looking overworld areas and some good sprites, but on the whole, I think there is a lot more bad than good. In general, I find them bland and overdesigned. Many areas look the same to me, both routes and caves. There are no real differences between areas, while several areas in Sinnoh and Unova look very different from each other. Several sprites are also really bad compared to the Sinnoh games, I also find the design of grass and trees to be really boring, as well as most caves.

On a similar note, I'm not very fond of the music and the soundtrack in HG/SS. There are some good tracks for sure, but on the whole, the music is not quite as great as in most other Pokémon games. This is mostly notable for a lot of the music in Kanto which I think is very bland and boring, some notable examples are the wild Pokémon and trainer battle themes, the general city music and the standard music used for most routes. I am also not a fan of some of the tracks in Johto such as Goldenrod City (which was one of my favorites in G/S/C, the fact that the remakes ruined it is a big shame), Route 29 and New Bark Town. The soundfont (or what you should call it) is another thing I'm not all that fond of, many sounds and instruments sound very sharp and annoying to me. The same thing happens regarding certain tracks in other Pokémon games too, but I recall being extra annoyed by it in HG/SS. I find the music in HG/SS overrated on the whole, and I think it is below average when it comes to Pokémon soundtracks.

Lastly, and this should be obvious by now, but I wasn't very fond of HG/SS on the whole. They are my least favorite Pokémon games. They have so many issues, all of the above plus a lot of others I haven't mentioned here (since they aren't unpopular). I think HG/SS are massively overhyped and overrated games. When it comes to the things I think are the most important in Pokémon games, they did basically everything wrong and almost nothing right. They also failed for me when it comes to the very most important thing in Pokémon (and video games in general): they weren't fun to play. HG/SS had the potential to be epic, but they blew it all on poorly executed features, bad gameplay and lackluster content. In the end, they are just a big shame. If anyone wonders why I liked G/S/C better, it is mainly because I thought they were at least fun for their time, which I can't say about HG/SS. Maybe that's also an unpopular opinion.

I think those are all of my unpopular opinions about HG/SS, I hope I didn't forget anything. I could have said more on most of these subjects, but I wanted to keep things short. Though I didn't really succeed since this became pretty long in the end. I have also been thinking about making another post in the annoyances thread where I go over every single thing I disliked about HG/SS, including everything I didn't post here. I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to making that post though, I have been thinking about making it for several years but it hasn't happened... yet. And it will probably not happen anytime soon either, but I might try to get it done at some point in the future.
As someone who loves HGSS and considers Gen 4 and the best, I'm going to try defend against your points. This is going to be a long post, so I'm going to try to keep it simplified.

Following Pokemon: I'm surprised you didn't like it. It was one of my favorite features and I loved it. One thing Pokemon really needed was a way to interact with Pokemon like a pet, and that was lacking for the majority of the games up until this point. I consider it a pre-cursor to the Amie function of the 3D games. DP and PT had done this was Amity Square, but this was the first time all Pokemon could do this. I loved being able to interacting with my Pokemon and see how they reacted to the environment. I never found it distracting when exploring dungeons. Interacting with Pokemon was just a nice little way to add a touch a friendship with the player and the Pokemon, as well as contributing to the theme of people and Pokemon trusting each other. Could have it been better? Sure. I don't see how its any semblance to slavery though. If anything, catching Pokemon from their homes and forcing them to engage in battles until one faints is more akin to slavery than letting your Pokemon out of their metal sphere to walk with you.

Rematches: I agree that its done significantly more complicated to DP and PT- Here are my thoughts. I wouldn't say that it's all bad though. We get to learn more about not only gym leaders but also about generic NPCs as well, like how Hiker Anthony expresses frustration at the fact that he failed to catch certain Pokemon. Or how Falkner and Janine have rivalry over whose Father is superior, or when Clair calls you via the Pokegear she notes she has a fan following and gets interviews at Goldenrod tower. It provides a way to flesh out characters that methods like the Vs Seeker could not do, or at least not in an understandable fashion that a cell phone would.

Touchscreen and Pokeathlon: I disagree on touch screen though. I just loved how easily accessible it was with a click of a button instead of pressing X and scrolling through the menu. I never found it chunky or annoying. I loved the Pokeathlon, for the same reason as contests: Fun little minigames that helped provide the experience of another way to interact with your Pokemon. I loved how diverse and different the activities were, as well as certain NPCs like Falkner and Maylene would participate providing another way to flesh them out outside of a gym battles. Even certain Pokemon have different traits like some being good in jumping, while the others being good in Stamina.

Crystal Implementation and QOL changes and Level Changes: I think what people meant is that HGSS went out of their way to include characters and scenes from Crystal while the other remakes did not. FRLG did not include Jessie, James, and Meowth from Yellow for example. ORAS is probably the biggest offender, I'm disappointed that they did not have Juan or Wallace be the champion. An easy explanation they could have done was that Steven retired from Champion to understand Mega Evolution, so Wallace took his place. Juan would take his role as gym leader as a result. Instead Juan only gets a passing mention from Lissa. Scott and the Frontier Brains are also absent and only get fleeting mentions. Back to HGSS, they implemented Eusine in a way that fits into the theme of trust between Pokemon and people. HGSS also allowed evolutions like Ambipom and Tangrowth obtained in the Pre-Ending, while FRLG did not.

I also disagree that they did nothing to fix the flaws that the original GS had. I've been playing the original Silver on the VC ( I never played the original versions prior to Virtual console. ) The lack of things like evolutionary stones prior to the post games and being unable to track roaming legendary Pokemon without seeing them first are huge downgrades. They even fixed things like The remakes fix these flaws. One thing HGSS did add that solves a lot of problems in the introduction of the Safari Zone. The Safari Zone allowed Pokemon like Murkrow and Misdreavus, Pokemon who were obtainable post game to be obtained earlier. They were underleveled, but not by too much to the point that you could not use them without giving them too much time to grind. An unpopular opinion, but I liked the HGSS Safari Zone a lot. I liked the ability to customize the area to get a sense of what kind of Pokemon live there and respond to the habitats. Could it have been better? Definitely. I could

As for the level curve, I agree that its not acceptable for Lv. 10 Clefairy to appear in Mt. Moon. That being said, I only found that to be an issue in Kanto. Johto for the most part was fine. The reason why the Johto postgame is beloved is because it kind of embraces the something fans want: Being able to explore a region and challenge the gyms in any fashion. Sword and Shield has the poor story telling akin to Kanto-Johto to the point that it happens literally before the finally battle. All the events that lead up to that could have happened in any order, yet we're still forced to explore in a linear order. I found the gym's difficulty easier than totems, and Dynamaxing was far to predictable to be considered a threat for experienced players. Doing Opal's gym before Allister would not change the nature of that You said that you didn't like Kanto in this game because there's barely any story, but Sword and Shield has this problem as well, yet you like them.

Kanto in Johto: Celever addresses why Kanto and Johto are linked here. I'd like to add that several of other Nintendo RPGs have done the Gold and Silver thing with the original playing a strong role in the sequel. Legend of Zelda 2 featured the same Link from the previous installment, while Fire Emblem Gaiden, the second game in the series, takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and has its history shared with Archanea ( The continent from the previous game ) as well as featuring 4 returning characters. The other thing I would like to add that Johto is a region that favors culture, folklore and tradition. This is referenced by the Legendary Beasts and Tower Duo having actual mythology behind them, unlike the Gen 1 Legendaries, which are just deemed as rare Pokemon. The Kimono girls uphold tradition in dancing, which has been passed down in history. Buildings around Johto have much older vibes to them. Kurt makes Pokeballs via hand, rather than mass produce like in Silph. Co. In other word's Johto's Identity is opposite of Kanto: 100% Traditional vs 100% modern.

Silver: I like him. He's definitely the most complex of all the rivals, and I like how HGSS helps fleshes him out. While a lot of it happens off screen, there are suttle cues like Golbat evolving into Crobat, showing off friendship. He even encourages you to heal before taking on the champion in the remakes. The remakes also has his starter Pokemon follow him around similar to the player, indicating trust and friendship between him and his Pokemon. The Ilex forest event shows he more footage, showing his reason why he dislikes Team Rocket, and strives not to be like them, which ironically he starts out like that only to mature out by being defeated by Lance and the player. Honestly, Silver is someone who needs a big hug. I don't mind either friendly or jerk rivals, as long as they actually get frustrated over losing, which is what many rivals lack in the recent titles. I thought Hop was a good rival, I ended up not making him my favorite simply because very frequently I found that I was being interrupted by a Hop cutscene that provided information that some other NPC told me in a previous cut scene.

Battle Frontier: It was probably cut, copy, and paste from Platinum just for the sake of maximizing compatibility. Keep in mind you could do thing like Multi-battles with Platinum, so if they tried doing things like new stat trainers it might cause issues in programming. And besides, stat trainers have no role in HGSS outside of the Battle Frontier, hence why the reason to create new ones because it probably wasn't worth it.

Game Engine, Graphics, and HMs: I find HGSS much faster than Sinnoh. Saving for example was very fast, in contrast to the Sinnoh games, which would be " Saving a lot of data " just after using the PC. I personally find HGSS more visually more bright and colorful than Sinnoh, that's probably because the real-life location Sinnoh is based on is duller than Johto's counterpart. I believe HMs are on par with Sinnoh.

Music: I prefer HGSS over GSC. I can handle GSC OST, but I just prefer the orchestrated music over 16-Bit music. I do admit I played Soulsilver before the original Silver so my taste may be biased. I definitely prefer it over SwSh as well as SM, and is probably between XY, DP, and Gen 5 for soundtracks.

The final thing I'd like to point out is that remakes while they do intend to fix problems with the originals, they also to purposefully like to keep some updates or problems to keep the game faithful to original version. Its the reason why ORAS did not have trainer customization despite being a QOL change. Its not just Pokemon too, other games that have been remade, like Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia also have a balance of this: You have support conversations which are fully voiced, but on the other hand you have awfully slow maps with swamps which have your movement as well as Summoners who summon monsters who are unhindered by the swaps and can overwhelm you. They could have easily fixed these maps alongside other problems, but decided not to because not be faithful for a remake, whose goal is to provide a generation who could not play those games a chance to play and experience what those games were back then.

Some other things I'd like to address:
I also don't really get where the diatribe about graphics is going, ORAS and Let's Go were able to upscale the games they were based on just fine in 3D, I don't get what makes Gen 4 magically different.
How 3D was handled differs in Gen 6 in comparison to Gen 7 and 8. In Gen 6, they used an 8 direction grid instead of a 4 direction grid because the game was in 3D, in addition to keeping a Bird eye's view. You could call it "2D Sprites in 3D " in a sense. Because of this, they could get away without drawing backgrounds for the majority of the game. But in SM, because of the fact that the grid was completely removed it and it switched to a more first-person view, it required them to pay much more attention to visual details like drawing background areas. I suppose they could do that for a Sinnoh remake, but considering that they'd have to draw background for every route ad cave, it would be a ton of effort to do that.
From my understanding, the quiz has two main appeals.

First, it paints Opal as a mischievous old coot. The age question sounds exactly like something my own grandmother would pull (she's 27 with 63 years of experience), and she is quite the entertaining character.

Second, have any gym leader battles ever had a gimmick like that? Like, there have been a few double battles here and there, but to my knowledge, Opal is the only one to shake up the gameplay in a non-standard way. Hell, it's super rare for gyms in general to shake up the battle mechanics. Aside from Opal's quizzes, there's Kabu's catching competition, and... I think one of Norman's trainers plays under Battle Arena rules? And Brawly's gym arguably counts because its trainers award you with light? I don't feel like going through every gym to check for more, but for the most part, gym puzzles are divorced from the battling, with the battles only serving as check points or punishments for failure.

I guess what I'm saying is that gyms should take inspiration from Frontier facilities. Hey, maybe that could have been a neat way to make the Kanto postgame better. Turn Kanto into functionally a giant Battle Frontier, with each of the eight gyms being the facilities.
I'm not saying that I'm against the quiz per se, I just felt that it was unfair to ask questions that were so personal. Imagine being on a quiz show and the host asks you to win the prize, guess his favorite colors! I wanted more general questions, like "What type strong against Fairy? "
 
I'm not saying that I'm against the quiz per se, I just felt that it was unfair to ask questions that were so personal. Imagine being on a quiz show and the host asks you to win the prize, guess his favorite colors! I wanted more general questions, like "What type strong against Fairy? "
It's not supposed to be fair. Opal isn't interested in testing your Pokemon knowledge. She just wants to ask you trick questions for her own amusement.

Besides, most of the gym trainers do ask legit questions, although the idea isn't used to its full potential. The first trainer asks the exact question you proposed, "Do you know about Fairy type's weaknesses?", but both answers correct. The second trainer's question, "What was the previous Trainer's name?", is an amazing question that throws the player for a loop, though it might have been best to save for the third trainer, as it's a huge leap in difficulty from the first question. The final trainer's question, "What do I eat for breakfast every morning?", is the same kind of nonsense question Opal asks, but it doesn't work nearly as well because Gym Trainer Theodora does not have the same mischievous characterization that Opal has. She even apologizes for asking an impossible question if you get it wrong.

Actually, I just realized that most of the answers to Opal's questions aren't just things you wouldn't know, but rather things you think you know. "Do you know my nickname?" is a 50/50 shot, but for the other two questions, "What is my favorite color?" and "How old am I?", the player isn't randomly guessing. A player treating this as a standard quiz will confidently answer "Pink" and "88 years old", because they saw Opal spouting off about pink earlier, and she's clearly not 16 years old.

With all that said, this is how I would improve the Ballonlea gym. Quizzing the player's Pokemon knowledge is okay, but because all the best questions from vanilla revolve around perception, let's make the first question something like "What is the name of this town?" to warm up the player's memory retrieval. The second question should be about the first trainer's Pokemon. Hopefully, this will put the player in a heightened state of awareness for the rest of the battle as they try to pick up on any little detail that could be used for the third question. Finally, the third question would of course be "What was the previous Trainer's name?". Because the names of rando trainers are some of the most ignorable things ever, in the player's quest to absorb everything about the second trainer's Pokemon, they likely will have overlooked the trainer herself.

Opal will be mostly the same, though the unknowable nickname question would be replaced with a proper deliberately misleading question. Also maybe reorder the questions, it doesn't really matter. The player will be thrown for a loop at first, as her questions are in direct contrast with those of the gym trainers, but by the end they will have caught on to Opal's tricks and answer the final question correctly, feeling clever to have beaten Opal at her own rigged game.
 
One thing I HATE about HGSS is just how short it is. I managed to beat Red around 30~ hours in. For reference, it took me about 80~ hours to beat BW2 and I think I have 70 hours in my current playthrough of Platinum and I haven't reached the climax at Spear Pillar/ Distortion World yet.

You'd expect a lot more from a game that has "TWO REGIONS!!!!1!!!"
I finished SWSH in 25 hours in my first run, 20 hours in my second run -_-
 
Edit 2: Just thought I'd say I only mentioned the GB sounds because you said the music sucked and I was just getting my opinion out on my first edit because I couldn't resist
Somewhat late reply, but I saw that you had added this edit today and wanted to respond to you here.

I never said the music "sucked", I just said that I like it less than the music in most other Pokémon games. I think HG/SS actually have several good tracks such as Ecruteak City, Route 38/39, Cinnabar Island, Raikou/Entei/Suicune battle theme and the Kanto Gym Leader battle theme. I also like most of the new music, most notably Ho-Oh's battle theme which is awesome. But on the whole, I liked the music less than in most other Pokémon games. HG/SS had a few tracks that I mentioned which I thought was really bad, and I thought that not all of their music was better than in G/S/C. Compare this to FR/LG and OR/AS which I think mostly improved upon the music from their originals. I thought HG/SS wasn't quite as great in this regard. Regarding the GB Sounds, I think I used it a bit at various times after obtaining it but having old music with new sound effects clashed pretty hard, so I didn't use it much.
[Serious analysis of Red's character as a NPC in the games]
All I can say is wow. This is crazy. I have never thought about it this way before, but after reading your post, I feel sorry for poor Red. I am not a super huge fan of him in general because of his lack of character as an NPC, and I think his design is pretty boring too, but now I really wish Game Freak had treated him better in the games as a NPC. Give the poor dude some actual character! Make him talk... bring back the real Red... or something. Thankfully there are other, better versions of him such as Red in Pokémon Adventures who I think is really awesome and everything Red in the games should have been IMO.
Following Pokemon: I'm surprised you didn't like it. It was one of my favorite features and I loved it. One thing Pokemon really needed was a way to interact with Pokemon like a pet, and that was lacking for the majority of the games up until this point. I consider it a pre-cursor to the Amie function of the 3D games. DP and PT had done this was Amity Square, but this was the first time all Pokemon could do this. I loved being able to interacting with my Pokemon and see how they reacted to the environment. I never found it distracting when exploring dungeons. Interacting with Pokemon was just a nice little way to add a touch a friendship with the player and the Pokemon, as well as contributing to the theme of people and Pokemon trusting each other. Could have it been better? Sure. I don't see how its any semblance to slavery though. If anything, catching Pokemon from their homes and forcing them to engage in battles until one faints is more akin to slavery than letting your Pokemon out of their metal sphere to walk with you.
Poor execution combined with it being forced were the main reasons I didn't like it. As for interacting with Pokémon, I thought Amie/Refresh/Camp did that way better. They actually let you interact with your Pokémon, feed them and play with them. In HG/SS the only thing you can do is to talk with your Pokémon and get a generic reply. I also liked Amity Square in the Sinnoh games better, I found it to be much better executed. It was also 100% optional and the Pokémon stood still when you did instead of constantly moving. I didn't mind not being able to choose any Pokémon there, having just a few was fine. Regarding the slavery, I thought the feature in HG/SS made my Pokémon feel like slaves because my lead was forced to constantly walk behind me. If it had been walking beside me instead, it would have felt more like a friend or a companion. I think other media like the anime and Pokémon Adventures manages to do this whole thing about Pokémon being outside of their Poké Balls very well, but HG/SS failed, partly because of the fact that they didn't really have the technology to do it well. I haven't played the Let's Go games but from what I have seen and heard, they seem to do the following Pokémon feature better than HG/SS as I have seen some Pokémon running around and in front of the trainer, it seems like you can also ride on certain Pokémon. And Pikachu/Eevee is on your shoulder/head, which is cool. Catching Pokémon and making them battle is one way to build bonds between trainer and Pokémon, it is also basically the main principle of the series, so it never felt like slavery to me.
Rematches: I agree that its done significantly more complicated to DP and PT- Here are my thoughts. I wouldn't say that it's all bad though. We get to learn more about not only gym leaders but also about generic NPCs as well, like how Hiker Anthony expresses frustration at the fact that he failed to catch certain Pokemon. Or how Falkner and Janine have rivalry over whose Father is superior, or when Clair calls you via the Pokegear she notes she has a fan following and gets interviews at Goldenrod tower. It provides a way to flesh out characters that methods like the Vs Seeker could not do, or at least not in an understandable fashion that a cell phone would.
Partly agree. It isn't all bad, but almost. When I played HG/SS, I managed to make it work though the following method: I looked up all the times the different trainers could be rematched as well as their locations, wrote them down on a document and printed it, then had it in front of me while playing. This allowed me to have a list that was easily accessible whenever I played the games... but I shouldn't have had to do that. It worked, but it was very annoying and unnecessary compared to the rematch systems in other, better games. The things the generic NPCs said just annoyed me to no end, I never cared for any of the things they said. The things the Gym Leaders say is partly interesting but I would much rather have had that through some other way than the phone. If anything, I think the PokéNav in the Hoenn games and the Fame Checker in FR/LG did that way better as they let you obtain info and tidbits about the Gym Leaders in a much better way.
Touchscreen and Pokeathlon: I disagree on touch screen though. I just loved how easily accessible it was with a click of a button instead of pressing X and scrolling through the menu. I never found it chunky or annoying. I loved the Pokeathlon, for the same reason as contests: Fun little minigames that helped provide the experience of another way to interact with your Pokemon. I loved how diverse and different the activities were, as well as certain NPCs like Falkner and Maylene would participate providing another way to flesh them out outside of a gym battles. Even certain Pokemon have different traits like some being good in jumping, while the others being good in Stamina.
To each their own I guess. I disliked the touch screen usage because of its poor execution, and I wasn't fond of the Pokéathlon. Though I don't think it is quite the worst minigame in the series as I liked it better than the Super Contests in the Sinnoh games, but that's about it. Different Pokémon having different traits in the Pokéathlon was not something I noticed or cared about, I know you could improve them somehow with "Aprijuice" but I never figured out how to do it properly.
Crystal Implementation and QOL changes and Level Changes: I think what people meant is that HGSS went out of their way to include characters and scenes from Crystal while the other remakes did not. FRLG did not include Jessie, James, and Meowth from Yellow for example. ORAS is probably the biggest offender, I'm disappointed that they did not have Juan or Wallace be the champion. An easy explanation they could have done was that Steven retired from Champion to understand Mega Evolution, so Wallace took his place. Juan would take his role as gym leader as a result. Instead Juan only gets a passing mention from Lissa. Scott and the Frontier Brains are also absent and only get fleeting mentions. Back to HGSS, they implemented Eusine in a way that fits into the theme of trust between Pokemon and people. HGSS also allowed evolutions like Ambipom and Tangrowth obtained in the Pre-Ending, while FRLG did not.
Perhaps, but my point is that even if HG/SS included "all" the things from Crystal, it did not make much of a difference. FR/LG might not have included everything from Yellow, but they made most of the important characters more interesting thanks to the Fame Checker, they made training easier with the VS. Seeker and they added the Sevii Island to give Kanto a substantial post-game. OR/AS might not have kept everything from Emerald but they did massive story improvements, they added new features such as the DexNav and they expanded upon many things from the originals such as the Mirage Spots, Secret Bases and Contests. In comparison, HG/SS kept everything from Crystal (except the Pokémon distrubution), sure. But they did little to nothing to improve upon massive issues from the originals like the level curve or the Pokémon distribution. So I don't think they deserve credit for it since it doesn't make much of a difference in terms of raw gameplay. I agree that FR/LG should have had a regional Pokédex expansion, that's another of my biggest wishes for a proper Kanto re-remake in the future. HG/SS might have added a few new evolutions, but they did not add all of them, just 5 out of a total of 23. OR/AS at least added all of the new evolutionairy relatives to the Hoenn Pokémon, even if it was only 9 in total.
I also disagree that they did nothing to fix the flaws that the original GS had. I've been playing the original Silver on the VC ( I never played the original versions prior to Virtual console. ) The lack of things like evolutionary stones prior to the post games and being unable to track roaming legendary Pokemon without seeing them first are huge downgrades. They even fixed things like The remakes fix these flaws. One thing HGSS did add that solves a lot of problems in the introduction of the Safari Zone. The Safari Zone allowed Pokemon like Murkrow and Misdreavus, Pokemon who were obtainable post game to be obtained earlier. They were underleveled, but not by too much to the point that you could not use them without giving them too much time to grind. An unpopular opinion, but I liked the HGSS Safari Zone a lot. I liked the ability to customize the area to get a sense of what kind of Pokemon live there and respond to the habitats. Could it have been better? Definitely. I could
If you ask me, those are minor improvements at best. I really disliked the Safari Zone in general, so I guess we are on different sides here, though I agree one one thing as I did like how it allowed us to get some Pokémon earlier than usual. IIRC it was thanks to it that I could get an early Doduo and use a Dodrio on my HG team, so that's cool. But I thought the overall execution was really terrible.
As for the level curve, I agree that its not acceptable for Lv. 10 Clefairy to appear in Mt. Moon. That being said, I only found that to be an issue in Kanto. Johto for the most part was fine. The reason why the Johto postgame is beloved is because it kind of embraces the something fans want: Being able to explore a region and challenge the gyms in any fashion. Sword and Shield has the poor story telling akin to Kanto-Johto to the point that it happens literally before the finally battle. All the events that lead up to that could have happened in any order, yet we're still forced to explore in a linear order. I found the gym's difficulty easier than totems, and Dynamaxing was far to predictable to be considered a threat for experienced players. Doing Opal's gym before Allister would not change the nature of that You said that you didn't like Kanto in this game because there's barely any story, but Sword and Shield has this problem as well, yet you like them.
That's interesting. I disagree, I thought it was just as bad in Johto. Wild Pokémon at level 10-15 all the way until the 7th Gym, where they become level 20-25 instead... while Clair's Kingdra is at level 41. It continues afterwards with wild Pokémon in their 30s until the E4 which starts at level 40 and ends at level 50, and there are no regular trainers in Victory Road which makes grinding before the E4 a massive pain.

While the post-game might be something fans want, I found it to be so poorly executed that I don't want it. At least not anymore, after first playing HG/SS and then other, better games, with better post-games. The levels for the wild Pokémon should have been higher to start with, and trainers too while we're at it. I have never asked for having the ability to challenge the Gyms in any order, especially not if it comes at the cost of having a working level curve or being able to grind against wild Pokémon at all. I want a fun and properly executed post-game, HG/SS did not give me that.

Regarding the story, I'll admit that it has been 8 years since I last played through the main story of HG/SS, so I might remember incorrectly. But the only "story" I remember that they had in Kanto was when you had to defeat a Rocket Grunt and get the part he stole from the Power Plant to make it functional again. That's not enough in my eyes. There is basically nothing that motivates me to go through all the Kanto Gyms since there's no story around it and nothing siginficant or interesting happens afterwards. There are almost no rewards, and the ones that exist are just too little or not really worth it.

In comparison, I thought Sword and Shield was way better. They have the Gym Challenge being the main focus for their story, it felt like the game really motivated me to go through it so I could challenge Leon and become the Champion. I don't see how you can do things in any order in Galar since the side-story with the legends have certain things that happen at certain points, it wouldn't be possible to do that in any order. I wouldn't say that there's "barely any story" in S/S as they had a story, it was just a lot more simple and laid-back compared to say, games with bigger stories like B/W or S/M. And I liked the S/S story since I thought a simpler story was a nice change of pace from the more serious and complex stories in the previous generations, I also found it much better executed than the simpler stories in the Kanto and the Johto games. And the story is far from the only reason I liked S/S. I'll admit that they have some really serious issues, but I still found Sword very fun and enjoyable to play, the good outweighs the bad for me. I do not regret getting it and the 80 hours I have spent on it so far was very much worth it.
Kanto in Johto: Celever addresses why Kanto and Johto are linked here. I'd like to add that several of other Nintendo RPGs have done the Gold and Silver thing with the original playing a strong role in the sequel. Legend of Zelda 2 featured the same Link from the previous installment, while Fire Emblem Gaiden, the second game in the series, takes place in the same world as Shadow Dragon and has its history shared with Archanea ( The continent from the previous game ) as well as featuring 4 returning characters. The other thing I would like to add that Johto is a region that favors culture, folklore and tradition. This is referenced by the Legendary Beasts and Tower Duo having actual mythology behind them, unlike the Gen 1 Legendaries, which are just deemed as rare Pokemon. The Kimono girls uphold tradition in dancing, which has been passed down in history. Buildings around Johto have much older vibes to them. Kurt makes Pokeballs via hand, rather than mass produce like in Silph. Co. In other word's Johto's Identity is opposite of Kanto: 100% Traditional vs 100% modern.
I see. The problem (and I guess I'm saying this a lot in regards to Johto and HG/SS) is that I found it poorly executed. I think it can work, but the execution needs to be a lot better.
Silver: I like him. He's definitely the most complex of all the rivals, and I like how HGSS helps fleshes him out. While a lot of it happens off screen, there are suttle cues like Golbat evolving into Crobat, showing off friendship. He even encourages you to heal before taking on the champion in the remakes. The remakes also has his starter Pokemon follow him around similar to the player, indicating trust and friendship between him and his Pokemon. The Ilex forest event shows he more footage, showing his reason why he dislikes Team Rocket, and strives not to be like them, which ironically he starts out like that only to mature out by being defeated by Lance and the player. Honestly, Silver is someone who needs a big hug. I don't mind either friendly or jerk rivals, as long as they actually get frustrated over losing, which is what many rivals lack in the recent titles. I thought Hop was a good rival, I ended up not making him my favorite simply because very frequently I found that I was being interrupted by a Hop cutscene that provided information that some other NPC told me in a previous cut scene.
I didn't find him very complex, nor did I feel that HG/SS fleshed him out in any significant way. Most of it was too little, too late, and too subtle for my tastes. I think it would be easy to fix him in a future proper Johto re-remake, but until that happens, I prefer other, better, friendlier rivals.
Battle Frontier: It was probably cut, copy, and paste from Platinum just for the sake of maximizing compatibility. Keep in mind you could do thing like Multi-battles with Platinum, so if they tried doing things like new stat trainers it might cause issues in programming. And besides, stat trainers have no role in HGSS outside of the Battle Frontier, hence why the reason to create new ones because it probably wasn't worth it.
I'll admit that I don't know exactly how the Multi battles in the Frontier works (partly because I don't think I ever tried them, but also because I dislike the Multi format in general), so I'll give you this. Though I should clarify that another reason I thought they should have created new stat trainers was to have you encounter them along the way in the games similar to how you meet the stat trainers in the Sinnoh games, they could then show up at the Frontier just like in the Sinnoh games.
Game Engine, Graphics, and HMs: I find HGSS much faster than Sinnoh. Saving for example was very fast, in contrast to the Sinnoh games, which would be " Saving a lot of data " just after using the PC. I personally find HGSS more visually more bright and colorful than Sinnoh, that's probably because the real-life location Sinnoh is based on is duller than Johto's counterpart. I believe HMs are on par with Sinnoh.
Saving in HG/SS was mostly faster from what I remember as well, so I'll give you that. Apart from that though, I found HG/SS slower than Platinum in general. HMs might be on par in terms of the amount you have to use, but I personally found them a lot more annoying in HG/SS for reasons I have previously stated.
Music: I prefer HGSS over GSC. I can handle GSC OST, but I just prefer the orchestrated music over 16-Bit music. I do admit I played Soulsilver before the original Silver so my taste may be biased. I definitely prefer it over SwSh as well as SM, and is probably between XY, DP, and Gen 5 for soundtracks.
As I said to Jerry in the beginning of this post, I thought HG/SS had some really good tracks, but also some bad ones. There are also some I prefer in the originals like Goldenrod City, but at the same time there are others I prefer in the remakes like Ecruteak City. Unlike you, I played G/S/C before HG/SS so that might be one reason I feel this way. I think the soundtrack is more mixed on the whole compared to most other Pokémon games, it isn't downright bad, I just think it is below average.
The final thing I'd like to point out is that remakes while they do intend to fix problems with the originals, they also to purposefully like to keep some updates or problems to keep the game faithful to original version. Its the reason why ORAS did not have trainer customization despite being a QOL change.
And I guess this is a problem I have with Pokémon remakes in general. I think they should fix as much as possible of the problems while keeping the non-problems as they are, but it is hard to find that balance and I think all remakes could have done a better job regarding this. From the remakes we have gotten, I really liked FR/LG and OR/AS, but HG/SS are my least favorites in the series, and I'm probably never going to play LGP/E because they don't appeal to me.
 
Idk how unpopular this opinion is but despite how much I absolutely loathe Gen 6 and find the games to be soulless, I'd much rather play those games than Gen 7. SOOOOO much about Gen 7 was absolutely annoying. Hau is insufferable, Lillie is so beyond pathetic I spent most of these scenes with her wanting to Thunderbolt ha into a crisp. And because this is basically Lillie's game and the plot revolves around her, I didn't care too much for that either. I didn't realize how terrible the handholding/cutscenes were and thought ppl were overreacting until I tried picking up USUM and couldn't make it past the preschool thing. Never had that problem with any other game. Team Skull were meh. Didn't like Alola itself; the islands are small and made everything feel claustrophobic. Lusamine was cool tho.

Gen 6 games have the depth of a puddle but they're less of a headache to play.
 

Kate

Metamodernity
is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SCL Champion
RBTT Champion
Idk how unpopular this opinion is but despite how much I absolutely loathe Gen 6 and find the games to be soulless, I'd much rather play those games than Gen 7. SOOOOO much about Gen 7 was absolutely annoying. Hau is insufferable, Lillie is so beyond pathetic I spent most of these scenes with her wanting to Thunderbolt ha into a crisp. And because this is basically Lillie's game and the plot revolves around her, I didn't care too much for that either. I didn't realize how terrible the handholding/cutscenes were and thought ppl were overreacting until I tried picking up USUM and couldn't make it past the preschool thing. Never had that problem with any other game. Team Skull were meh. Didn't like Alola itself; the islands are small and made everything feel claustrophobic. Lusamine was cool tho.

Gen 6 games have the depth of a puddle but they're less of a headache to play.
Well yes they're less of a headache to play. That's also because you can pretty much autopilot through the games since there's almost nothing that requires brainpower in them. Every six months or so I play through X and Y again to see if my (horrible) opinion of them holds up, and I am never disappointed. Can barely remember how the games end an hour after beating them. While a lot of hate Alola gets is deserved, I still find it an infinitely more enjoyable experience since I don't constantly feel like I'm playing a game made for the Leapfrog.
 
On the topic of deep character dives and the meaning of strength,

A lot of focus is put on Power vs. Friendship. But at least in HGSS (I haven't played the originals), there's another possible answer to that question in Dragon's Den: Tactics. And I gotta say, in my nearly 10 years of actually using tactics in these games (The earlier years were almost certainly "unaligned and ineffective"), it holds up as a pretty useful battling philosophy. So when I see Red, a previous player character and figure of power, having little to no dialog, I think of it as being because he doesn't need a conversation to know what's going on, and that he sees you as enough of a worthy opponent that he doesn't expect you to either. After all, you've both been through a hundred battles that started just by meeting another's gaze. Or maybe because I'm autistic and much prefer socializing over a textbook's worth of game mechanics, I see getting straight to battling as a completely understandable move. Either way, I see no reason to be concerned about him or the Johto protagonist.

In a broader sense, what we ascribe to player characters in games with heavy customization is going to be different, because we are going to see those characters react differently to the same situations. Is the wierdest thing about Red at Mt. Silver his isolation, or is it that he replaced his clear favourite electric-type with some generic rat? I recall another thread in which I held a different opinion about Alola in general in terms of it valuing adaptability vs. enforcing conformity. But I never played an adventure in which the protagonist integrates into Alola. I played games with restricted team layouts (monotype in Moon, thematic in USun), where you can't evolve your route 1 starter until after the climax, on your second choice because the wait for a fully new-generation mon of your first choice would have lasted until the third island. All because you had the audacity to prefer Bug or Steel types. I played games where accepting an offer to change towards the standard was simply not an option. And I beat those games, where a foreigner sits with their foreign ideals on the Alola League's throne. Is an unbending crusader the intended characterization of the gen 7 protagonist? Almost certainly not. But every action they took supports that personality. For all that that example used an added challenge, it's not a requirement for different enough playstyles that show a character differently. Despite playing Three Houses with no restrictions whatsoever, I think of Byleth as someone with a near-obsession with unusual combat techniques, due to 95% of my downtime being focused on figuring out skill combinations. I'm pretty sure this is neither the official nor the predominant fandom personality of the character.
 
Gen 5 is by far the worst generation of all time in my eyes.Before you all say that is the exact opposite of unpopular,It’s honestly really not.Gen 5 fanboys think it’s the most overrated gen ever when all I go I see “GEN 5 BEST GEN 1 SHITE””GARBODER IS GOOD” and just everyone praising it.Gen 5 has terrible designs in some places,Not just the trio of GARBODER,Vanillixe,Klingklang.Serperior is super awkward looking.Watchhog looks stoned.The Monkeys all just look dumb.Gigalith is boring,But Geodude sucks and GIGA is fine.Musharna is bland too.Woo and Swoobat are dumbass Zubat knock offs.Conkeldur is the doofiest thing since Lickylicky.Seismitoad looks despressed and wants to die.Throh and Sawk looking like anime villians.Basculin is boring as is Liligant and Scolipede.Maractus and Crustle are just boring and forgettable.Scrafty is alongside Sawk and Throh.Sigilyph looks like a mess.Gothitelle doesn’t even look like a Pokémon.Swanna is forgettable and boring.Amonguss is infuriating in competitive and is just another Breloom clone.Ferrothorn is bland as is Chandelure just being generic.Beartic and Drudigon are goofy and stupid.Heatmor is my second least favorite Pokémon of all fucking time so yeah. And Zekrom,Reshiram,Kyreum and the Swords of Justice are Digimon


not to say every design is bad.Durant is my third favorite Pokémon of all time and unpopular opinion I love the Weather Trio

it’s just people ignore this because gen5 got a lot of hate they wanted to spread the opinion that it was good.Gen 5 has bad designs and before you call me Genwunner Gen 1 has bad designs too,But at least I could remember all the Pokémon.Muk is a pile of sludge and people rage over that,Uhh doesn’t Gen 5 have the ducking Garbage and Heatmor

Every Gen has bad designs.Gen 4 is my favorite and I still won’t defend.Heatran,Magmortar,Lickylicky,Bibarel,Kricketune or Shaymin any day of the week.Gen 2 is my second least favorite because of the shite varsity and just bad designs like Hitmontop,Entei(Yes it just looks goofy) and Togetic

God I’ve had to get this off my chest for ages
 
Muk is a pile of sludge and people rage over that,Uhh doesn’t Gen 5 have the ducking Garbage
Trubbish is a trash bag with knot ends for ears and leaking trash for arms, while Garbodor sees the trash burst out of the bag, with pipes acting as bones for its arms. There's also a variety of colors used. The bag is green, while the trash is brown with blue and pink chunks.

Grimer is a purple blob with arms that evolves into an angrier purple blob with arms. Not only are the designs kinda bland, but there's very little that actually suggests a progression from a weak to stronger form.

Alolan Grimer and Muk are much better. Instead of being generic purple blobs like you'd see in any video game, they're specifically blobs of oil. They also have more colors for visual variety, with Muk's rainbow gives a better sense of progression.
 

Kate

Metamodernity
is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SCL Champion
RBTT Champion
Gen 5 is by far the worst generation of all time in my eyes.Before you all say that is the exact opposite of unpopular,It’s honestly really not.Gen 5 fanboys think it’s the most overrated gen ever when all I go I see “GEN 5 BEST GEN 1 SHITE””GARBODER IS GOOD” and just everyone praising it.Gen 5 has terrible designs in some places,Not just the trio of GARBODER,Vanillixe,Klingklang.Serperior is super awkward looking.Watchhog looks stoned.The Monkeys all just look dumb.Gigalith is boring,But Geodude sucks and GIGA is fine.Musharna is bland too.Woo and Swoobat are dumbass Zubat knock offs.Conkeldur is the doofiest thing since Lickylicky.Seismitoad looks despressed and wants to die.Throh and Sawk looking like anime villians.Basculin is boring as is Liligant and Scolipede.Maractus and Crustle are just boring and forgettable.Scrafty is alongside Sawk and Throh.Sigilyph looks like a mess.Gothitelle doesn’t even look like a Pokémon.Swanna is forgettable and boring.Amonguss is infuriating in competitive and is just another Breloom clone.Ferrothorn is bland as is Chandelure just being generic.Beartic and Drudigon are goofy and stupid.Heatmor is my second least favorite Pokémon of all fucking time so yeah. And Zekrom,Reshiram,Kyreum and the Swords of Justice are Digimon


not to say every design is bad.Durant is my third favorite Pokémon of all time and unpopular opinion I love the Weather Trio

it’s just people ignore this because gen5 got a lot of hate they wanted to spread the opinion that it was good.Gen 5 has bad designs and before you call me Genwunner Gen 1 has bad designs too,But at least I could remember all the Pokémon.Muk is a pile of sludge and people rage over that,Uhh doesn’t Gen 5 have the ducking Garbage and Heatmor

Every Gen has bad designs.Gen 4 is my favorite and I still won’t defend.Heatran,Magmortar,Lickylicky,Bibarel,Kricketune or Shaymin any day of the week.Gen 2 is my second least favorite because of the shite varsity and just bad designs like Hitmontop,Entei(Yes it just looks goofy) and Togetic

God I’ve had to get this off my chest for ages
This is stupid. You're allowed to think what you like, but the entire generation is not bad because of subjective designs. If anyone hates gen 1 solely based on Pokemon design, my dislike for the generation will not stop me from politely telling them to look at the games as a whole. In most other regards, gen 5 outclasses a large majority of main series titles, which is why a lot of people like them.

Point being, designs aren't everything and it is extremely unfair to judge based on the Pokedex alone.
 
Gen 5 is by far the worst generation of all time in my eyes.Before you all say that is the exact opposite of unpopular,It’s honestly really not.Gen 5 fanboys think it’s the most overrated gen ever when all I go I see “GEN 5 BEST GEN 1 SHITE””GARBODER IS GOOD” and just everyone praising it.Gen 5 has terrible designs in some places,Not just the trio of GARBODER,Vanillixe,Klingklang.Serperior is super awkward looking.Watchhog looks stoned.The Monkeys all just look dumb.Gigalith is boring,But Geodude sucks and GIGA is fine.Musharna is bland too.Woo and Swoobat are dumbass Zubat knock offs.Conkeldur is the doofiest thing since Lickylicky.Seismitoad looks despressed and wants to die.Throh and Sawk looking like anime villians.Basculin is boring as is Liligant and Scolipede.Maractus and Crustle are just boring and forgettable.Scrafty is alongside Sawk and Throh.Sigilyph looks like a mess.Gothitelle doesn’t even look like a Pokémon.Swanna is forgettable and boring.Amonguss is infuriating in competitive and is just another Breloom clone.Ferrothorn is bland as is Chandelure just being generic.Beartic and Drudigon are goofy and stupid.Heatmor is my second least favorite Pokémon of all fucking time so yeah. And Zekrom,Reshiram,Kyreum and the Swords of Justice are Digimon


not to say every design is bad.Durant is my third favorite Pokémon of all time and unpopular opinion I love the Weather Trio

it’s just people ignore this because gen5 got a lot of hate they wanted to spread the opinion that it was good.Gen 5 has bad designs and before you call me Genwunner Gen 1 has bad designs too,But at least I could remember all the Pokémon.Muk is a pile of sludge and people rage over that,Uhh doesn’t Gen 5 have the ducking Garbage and Heatmor

Every Gen has bad designs.Gen 4 is my favorite and I still won’t defend.Heatran,Magmortar,Lickylicky,Bibarel,Kricketune or Shaymin any day of the week.Gen 2 is my second least favorite because of the shite varsity and just bad designs like Hitmontop,Entei(Yes it just looks goofy) and Togetic

God I’ve had to get this off my chest for ages
If you're saying Gen 5 is the worst purely off the designs I hard agree. there are so many uglees introduced in this gen that I refuse to play BW without trading pokemon over from previous games.
 
Gen 5 is by far the worst generation of all time in my eyes.Before you all say that is the exact opposite of unpopular,It’s honestly really not.Gen 5 fanboys think it’s the most overrated gen ever when all I go I see “GEN 5 BEST GEN 1 SHITE””GARBODER IS GOOD” and just everyone praising it.Gen 5 has terrible designs in some places,Not just the trio of GARBODER,Vanillixe,Klingklang.Serperior is super awkward looking.Watchhog looks stoned.The Monkeys all just look dumb.Gigalith is boring,But Geodude sucks and GIGA is fine.Musharna is bland too.Woo and Swoobat are dumbass Zubat knock offs.Conkeldur is the doofiest thing since Lickylicky.Seismitoad looks despressed and wants to die.Throh and Sawk looking like anime villians.Basculin is boring as is Liligant and Scolipede.Maractus and Crustle are just boring and forgettable.Scrafty is alongside Sawk and Throh.Sigilyph looks like a mess.Gothitelle doesn’t even look like a Pokémon.Swanna is forgettable and boring.Amonguss is infuriating in competitive and is just another Breloom clone.Ferrothorn is bland as is Chandelure just being generic.Beartic and Drudigon are goofy and stupid.Heatmor is my second least favorite Pokémon of all fucking time so yeah. And Zekrom,Reshiram,Kyreum and the Swords of Justice are Digimon


not to say every design is bad.Durant is my third favorite Pokémon of all time and unpopular opinion I love the Weather Trio

it’s just people ignore this because gen5 got a lot of hate they wanted to spread the opinion that it was good.Gen 5 has bad designs and before you call me Genwunner Gen 1 has bad designs too,But at least I could remember all the Pokémon.Muk is a pile of sludge and people rage over that,Uhh doesn’t Gen 5 have the ducking Garbage and Heatmor

Every Gen has bad designs.Gen 4 is my favorite and I still won’t defend.Heatran,Magmortar,Lickylicky,Bibarel,Kricketune or Shaymin any day of the week.Gen 2 is my second least favorite because of the shite varsity and just bad designs like Hitmontop,Entei(Yes it just looks goofy) and Togetic

God I’ve had to get this off my chest for ages
Yeah, I agree its unfair to judge a generation solely based off designs. Generation 5 has a lot of things going for it, like it's story or fully animated sprites. That being said, you do have a point in that some of the designs of Gen 5 are clearly inspired by a lot of other Pokemon. Here's a list that I have noticed:

1. Timburr line: Parallels of Machop. Saddest part is that the Timburr line outclasses the Machop line. They both share a trade evolution.

2. Roggenrola line: Parallel of Geodude. They even share abilities and have a final evolution that requires a trade.

3. Blitzle line: Similar to Ponyta: Both based off Equines, and are two stages. Rapidash abd Zebstrika have the same Attack and Sp.Atk, while also having a similar stat distribution.

4. Minccino line: According to a Nintendo Dream interview, they are supposed to be counterparts of the Clefairy line, in which both are cute and glamorous.

5. Basculin: Was given two forms because of the lack of fish Pokemon. At least they have different abilities for different roles.

6. Klink line: Paralell of Magnetmite. Both of them "fuse" while they evolve, and while not Electric type, they learn a lot of Electric type moves.

7. Throh and Sawk: Parallels of Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee.

8. Munna line: Parallel of Drowzee line. Both consume dreams and are based off Tapirs. Munna was even forshadowed in Gen 1.

9. Woobat line: Paralell of Zubat line. Both reach their final stage through friendship.

10. Ducklett line: Not gen 1 Pokemon, but they share a lot in common with Wingull line in that they are water birds. Ducklett even shares it category Pelliper. The evolution references the Ugly Duckling fairytale, which is done by the Feebas line already.

11. Boufallant: Paralell of Tauros. Both are Angry bovid Pokemon.

12. Fossil Pokemon: Both lines are referencing the original typings of the Kanto Fossils. You can only get one, and must trade for the other, like the Gen 1 fossils.

13. Trubbish line: Referencing Koffing and Grimer. All 3 are two-stage families with pollution as basis, in Trubbish's case its land pollution.

12. Forces of Nature: Share their secondary typings with the Legendary Birds. Their highest stat 125, is also the Legendary Bird's highest stat.

13. Tao Trio: They share their secondary typing with the Legendary bird's Primary types. Also share their Dragon typing with the Creation Trio, and Reshiram and Zekrom have the same distrubution as them, just arranged differently.

14. Sewaddle and Venipede: Could see them as paralells to Butterfree and Beedrill, since all are insects that go through cacoon before maturing. Scolipede line shares their typing with Beedrill.

15. Foonguss line: Replaces Voltorb for the Pokeball gimmick.

16. Genesect: Both were altered by Science from an evil team.

There are some things like regional birds and rodents, Pika-clones, as well as Psuedo-Legendaries, but those are not unique to Gen 5, but all generations, so I'm leaving those out. That's a lot, but there's some pretty cool designs like Chandelure, Braviary, Mandibuzz, Vanniluxe, and Beartic, and those are pretty original, so its not like all Pokemon are Rip-offs.

It starts to only become a problem when a concept is reused over again and again. Grookey's a pretty good example. Its another monkey, a Grass monkey, yet GF's reasoning on why its Ok is because its "another" monkey in the Pokemon in the world. Fine until Zarude comes around who's ANOTHER grass monkey, and the cycle continues. They can reuse concepts like this constantly with the logic mentioned above. Now I'm not saying that they don't try to create entirely new ideas, there are Pokemon like Polteageist and Applin which are a clever play on words, but the process of using new concepts is slowed down as a result.
 
Im actually gonna continue that post.Gen 5 is also a pain to play because grinding is annoying and it puts too much emphasis on story(The story is overrated imo).Yeah other gens has stories but Gen 5 along with Gen 7 shoved it down your throat.Even with Audino grinding is still a pain and though grinding is not as bad as Gen 2 it sucks still.Only being allowed to use the New gen Pokémon was a stupid idea.What if someone wants to use some old favorites?Like Spiritomb is my favorite Pokémon of all time and I got to wait until postgame to transfer it.The entire game is just too easy aswell even with the asinine grinding.And the stupid ass Pokémon don’t help all of this.If Gen 5 is your favorite generation,That’s fine I will don’t attack you for it.But don’t say it’s the best but then hate on Gen 1 for doing the same shit this game does.

in addition not Gen 5 designs I like before y’all attack me are Archeops who is my second favorite fossil Pokémon.Cinncinno who’s a blast to use.Emboar who’s the only starter I like and Acelgor
 
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earl

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is a Community Contributor
Im actually gonna continue that post.Gen 5 is also a pain to play because grinding is annoying and it puts too much emphasis on story(The story is overrated imo).Yeah other gens has stories but Gen 5 along with Gen 7 shoved it down your throat.Even with Audino grinding is still a pain and though grinding is not as bad as Gen 2 it sucks still.Only being allowed to use the New gen Pokémon was a stupid idea.What if someone wants to use some old favorites?Like Spiritomb is my favorite Pokémon of all time and I got to wait until postgame to transfer it.The entire game is just too easy aswell even with the asinine grinding.And the stupid ass Pokémon don’t help all of this.If Gen 5 is your favorite generation,That’s fine I will don’t attack you for it.But don’t say it’s the best but then hate on Gen 1 for doing the same shit this game does.

in addition not Gen 5 designs I like before y’all attack me are Archeops who is my second favorite fossil Pokémon.Cinncinno who’s a blast to use.Emboar who’s the only starter I like and Acelgor
What’s your opinion on B2W2? I personally find it leagues better than BW and it does address some of your complaints in terms of gameplay.
 

Codraroll

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is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
Im actually gonna continue that post.Gen 5 is also a pain to play because grinding is annoying and it puts too much emphasis on story(The story is overrated imo).Yeah other gens has stories but Gen 5 along with Gen 7 shoved it down your throat.Even with Audino grinding is still a pain and though grinding is not as bad as Gen 2 it sucks still.Only being allowed to use the New gen Pokémon was a stupid idea.What if someone wants to use some old favorites?Like Spiritomb is my favorite Pokémon of all time and I got to wait until postgame to transfer it.The entire game is just too easy aswell even with the asinine grinding.And the stupid ass Pokémon don’t help all of this.If Gen 5 is your favorite generation,That’s fine I will don’t attack you for it.But don’t say it’s the best but then hate on Gen 1 for doing the same shit this game does.

in addition not Gen 5 designs I like before y’all attack me are Archeops who is my second favorite fossil Pokémon.Cinncinno who’s a blast to use.Emboar who’s the only starter I like and Acelgor
Not saying your opinions are necessarily wrong, but the way you don't use spaces after punctuation makes the post rather strenuous to read.
 

Pikachu315111

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To start with, I disliked the following Pokémon feature in HG/SS. (...) I hope this feature never returns in any proper Pokémon game in the future.
Even if you could turn it off? I know a lot of people liked it but I can see your point about all it not really adding much. But this is one of those situations where an "off" switch to a mechanic some people don't like (that GF seems to have a hard time adding) means everyone can have their cake and eat it.

I thought the trainer rematch system in HG/SS was really bad. (...) First you had to receive the numbers from trainers, then you had to call them on specific times in order to get a rematch (and you can't be on the same route as the trainer in question when you call them since it won't work unless you are on a different route) and only after having gone through all that you can walk up to the trainer and talk to them in order to start a battle. I thought it was way too unnecessarily overcomplicated compared to the simpler means of training spots and trainer rematches that exist in other modern games. The Gym Leader rematches suffered from the same issue since they were also tied to this awful system with an added complication as you first had to find the Gym Leader at a specific time and place in order to get their number. I think this is one of the worst rematch systems in the series, I prefer the better systems in the better games, like the PokéNav and Secret Bases in the Hoenn games, the VS. Seeker in FR/LG and D/P/P, the Nimbasa Stadiums and Black Tower/White Treehollow in the Unova games, and the Battle Chateau in X/Y.
While I think the mobile feature is neat, you're right that for making rematches it's a tedious extra step where other games it was just one or two steps that required little from the player. I think the PokeNav was the best where just checking it told you if a trainer was ready to rematch or not. The VS Seeker was good if you wanted to "force" a rematch to happen. The mobile phone mechanic could use an overhaul and given other purposes.

But if you're talking about grinding spots I think a location like the Black Tower/White Treehollow is the best.

I think OR/AS are good games even if they didn't keep everything from Emerald, they have great gameplay and much better executed content which makes them better games on the whole.
And let's be honest, when people said it doesn't have everything from Emerald what they actually mean it didn't have the Battle Frontier (and Gym Leader rematches). No one is crying over the loss of Mirage Tower/Desert Underpass, Terra/Marine Cave, and the Magma Hideout in Jagged Pass. We also did get to battle Wallace's Champion team in the Delta Episode, sort of a mirror how we got to battle Steven in the post game of Emerald. But yeah, it's the Battle Frontier everyone is mostly complaining about the "missing content from Emerald". Had the Battle Frontier been in ORAS (or at least something that simulated similar mechanics of it) then no one would be saying anything about Emerald (though would have been nice if the other team was a bit more involved and we got to battle them but that's another discussion entirely).

I personally find Oleana's theme in SWSH to be better than Marnie's and frankly better than every single track in the game, not sure if you guys feel the same, let me know if you do.
Oleana's and I would also say Bede's theme I do feel have a certain punch to them compared to other trainers with their own themes.

This got me thinking, and the more I try to read character into Red, the more unsettling he becomes.
Well he obviously gets better. In Gen VII not only had he gotten off the mountain and reconnected with people to be the host of the Battle Tree but he's co-host with Blue which both rekindled their friendship. Sure Red still doesn't speak but he seems happier.

And in Pokemon Masters, Red finally speaks:

Side note about Red/player char in RBY but he DOES talk in those games!

He responds to the Copycat's impersonation of him.
... And that too. Also, in FRLG, Blue does call him a "chatty gossip" though he could just be teasing.

Opal asking personal questions when you know nothing about her is the same sort of logic that Rumpelstiltskin had when telling the princess to guess his name. In other words, a very mischievous, fairy-like thing to do.

At least Opal gives you a 50/50 chance.
It does make it more memorable then her asking easy ball question. Now maybe they could have added some hints in her League Card (like she's called the Wizard, she likes lying about her age, and she only likes pink on other people but not personally herself) so there's technically is a way to know the knowledge and it's your fault for not looking at it (which would be another Fairy-like thing to do, technically giving you what you wanted but knowing many wouldn't bother looking thus making it their own fault).

Actually, I just realized that most of the answers to Opal's questions aren't just things you wouldn't know, but rather things you think you know. "Do you know my nickname?" is a 50/50 shot, but for the other two questions, "What is my favorite color?" and "How old am I?", the player isn't randomly guessing. A player treating this as a standard quiz will confidently answer "Pink" and "88 years old", because they saw Opal spouting off about pink earlier, and she's clearly not 16 years old.
Actually the first question is also one you would think you know the answer to. The two choices she gives I believe are "The Wizard" and "The Sorceress". Opal is a woman so obviously she would be given the name of a magic user that is female, sorceress, as wizard is usually used to refer to male magic users.

Opal will be mostly the same, though the unknowable nickname question would be replaced with a proper deliberately misleading question. Also maybe reorder the questions, it doesn't really matter. The player will be thrown for a loop at first, as her questions are in direct contrast with those of the gym trainers, but by the end they will have caught on to Opal's tricks and answer the final question correctly, feeling clever to have beaten Opal at her own rigged game.
Heck, if I was making this challenge, I personally would have made it so that no matter what you answered you were told you're wrong.

"What is my nickname? Wizard or Sorceress?"
Pick Wizard: "Deary you do know I am a woman, right?"
Pick Sorceress: "That would sound right but I actually don't have a nickname!"

"What is my favorite color? Pink or Purple?"
Pick Pink: "Actually I only like pink on others, it's not my favorite color"
Pick Purple: "Nice guess but no, it's a shade between pink and purple: fuchsia"

"What is my age? 16 or 88?"
Pick 16: "Flattery will get you no where, hehehe."
Pick 88: "Just because that's correct doesn't mean you get to reveal a woman's age, deary"

However, as a sort of award for that nonsense, when you then battle Bede in the Champion Cup he would also do the quiz giving gimmick but his answers would be answerable and thus you'll be able to get a boon during a more important battle. ;)

If you're saying Gen 5 is the worst purely off the designs I hard agree. there are so many uglees introduced in this gen that I refuse to play BW without trading pokemon over from previous games.
While I don't agree with CentaurMM6, that is his opinion and so I won't say he's wrong for not liking the design choices. However to not want to play BW, I don't know, while also your choice I feel you're missing out on an otherwise solid Pokemon experience. Gen V is my personal favorite games. If you have to transfer Pokemon from a previous gen to play it so be it, but I would say give it a playthrough for the story experience. :)

Im actually gonna continue that post.Gen 5 is also a pain to play because grinding is annoying.

(...)

The entire game is just too easy aswell even with the asinine grinding.
Wouldn't these two points cancel each other out?

Gastrodon East is better than west
At the very least they have the better color scheme.

I have never played those games since they expensive AF lol.
What? They're just as expensive as BW is. And if you think that's not fair I think BW2 is actually deserving having the same retail price compared to Crystal, Emerald, & Platinum since BW2 is a new story which means significant changes have been made to the region which includes new locations.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
What? They're just as expensive as BW is. And if you think that's not fair I think BW2 is actually deserving having the same retail price compared to Crystal, Emerald, & Platinum since BW2 is a new story which means significant changes have been made to the region which includes new locations.
I think what Centaur is getting is that while they were a similar price at launch, nowadays you gotta buy em second-hand, and we all know how expensive Pokemon games get after a bit. Can confirm myself to an extent, I had to buy a used copy of Pokemon Platinum and it still set me back like 70 bucks or something crazy like that
 

Kate

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Crazy random thought I had, but after further thinking, I realized it actually made way more sense than I initially thought.

Alola and Galar are regions that would be better as gen 8 and 7, respectively.

Galar now becomes the final games on the 3DS and doesn't have its dex cut. Pokemon not showing up in a region based off of Great Britain makes literally no sense, even if it is an island. Not only that, but Galar's plot point of Energy running out ties in nicely with how Gen 7 was the last generation before a big shift; Gamefreak even mentioned something along those lines, too. It would be a great symbolism for how we can't control what comes next, but make the best of it.

Alola becomes so, so much better than before. It greatly benefits from the graphics of the Switch, possibly able to explore more upon things such as UB worlds, Ultra Megalopolis, and Mount Lanakila, along with Vast Poni Canyon. Hawaii makes perfect sense for a dex cut, as it is an isolated land mass that would likely not have every Pokemon imported there. It also adds a bit more flavor to Yungoos, as it directly shows that Pokemon do have to be brought to this rather remote region.

It would be rather interesting to see what would have happened if the Generations had been swapped. Alola is a great region but it really would like to be on the Switch.
 

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