Although my earlier post made my position clear I want to clarify my thoughts in a less hasty manner. Lauriane has given a comprehensive post on baton pass in DPP so I will refrain from mentioning it. Banning things from Ubers is always contentious - MMII mentioned that people may stop playing Ubers if they have a bad experience with baton pass, but then again people may stop playing Ubers if more things get banned. As such, I feel like a solution can be reached which would be agreeable - but first I’ll explain why I feel baton pass does not deserve a ban.
In BW and ORAS, baton pass has the same function; GeoPass and SmashPass. These two strategies, whilst unpopular to people who face it, are in no way broken or uncompetitive - there exists a myriad of options for counterplay readily available on all competently built teams. Phasing, hazards, strong priority and taunt are all perfectly viable options of stopping these strategies. As a matter of fact, I would go so far to say that the worse part of these strategies is Smeargle using Spore, which is effectively an OHKO for a certain number of turns. Fortunately, teams are prepared for sleep due to the prevalence of Darkrai in both these tiers, and sleep talkers forcing Smeargle to run taunt prevents it from running other moves such as Ingrain. Long story short, SmashPass and GeoPass are not consistent strategies in Ubers and are easily dealt with by some of the most common counterplay to general setup anyway. They are not remotely uncompetitive, they merely attempt to get a cheap win against an unsuspecting opponent.
To move on to ADV, which appears to be the main point of contention, I would argue that ADV has the most reason to keep baton pass. Shedinja was mentioned above, and it could fit on stall teams as a pivot for Kyogre. There are some interesting strategies involving Umbreon passing Curse boosts to mons holding White Herb, or simply Mean Look passing; once again not a particularly popular strategy, but a creative one which requires skill to pull off successfully, especially given Umbreon does not have the stats to truly compete in Ubers. There are almost certainly many more examples where baton pass is an interesting and fun move to use without being remotely broken.
Baton pass is only really unpopular for one reason: fullpass chains. These teams are generally not that good in Ubers but they are teams that aim to win in the builder and follow a process that removes player skill in-game. The player piloting baton pass will have to make some choices based on their opponent’s actions, however these are designed to be minimal. Whilst these teams are not good at all, given you are using PU mons to compete with Ubers and are effectively starting the game at a huge disadvantage, I can understand why they are unpopular. They require one person’s skill to build and anyone can mindlessly copy the team and attempt to pilot it. As such, I feel a complex ban to get rid of fullpass is solution which will be most agreeable to everyone - it has been done in previous generations of OU and Ubers has a history of complex bans (STag + Sleep Move) hence I see no reason why a limit on the number of passers in a team, or a complex ban of smeargle + ingrain should not be imposed.
TLDR; complex ban baton pass to get rid of fullpass - I feel like baton pass is worth preserving and getting rid of the single worst element of it before it is solved in ADV should suffice.
I am aware that smashpass was unpopular, however it is not exactly a broken strategy; it is unreliable due to the myriad of counterplay which is readily available on most teams, but can be fun to use in less serious scenarios. The same applies to both SmashPass and GeoPass in ORAS.
I am fully aware that OU tiering has no impact on Ubers, however I would see it as silly that the tier with the fewest bans has in fact banned something not banned by a tier below it; I’m sure others would agree.
In BW and ORAS, baton pass has the same function; GeoPass and SmashPass. These two strategies, whilst unpopular to people who face it, are in no way broken or uncompetitive - there exists a myriad of options for counterplay readily available on all competently built teams. Phasing, hazards, strong priority and taunt are all perfectly viable options of stopping these strategies. As a matter of fact, I would go so far to say that the worse part of these strategies is Smeargle using Spore, which is effectively an OHKO for a certain number of turns. Fortunately, teams are prepared for sleep due to the prevalence of Darkrai in both these tiers, and sleep talkers forcing Smeargle to run taunt prevents it from running other moves such as Ingrain. Long story short, SmashPass and GeoPass are not consistent strategies in Ubers and are easily dealt with by some of the most common counterplay to general setup anyway. They are not remotely uncompetitive, they merely attempt to get a cheap win against an unsuspecting opponent.
To move on to ADV, which appears to be the main point of contention, I would argue that ADV has the most reason to keep baton pass. Shedinja was mentioned above, and it could fit on stall teams as a pivot for Kyogre. There are some interesting strategies involving Umbreon passing Curse boosts to mons holding White Herb, or simply Mean Look passing; once again not a particularly popular strategy, but a creative one which requires skill to pull off successfully, especially given Umbreon does not have the stats to truly compete in Ubers. There are almost certainly many more examples where baton pass is an interesting and fun move to use without being remotely broken.
Baton pass is only really unpopular for one reason: fullpass chains. These teams are generally not that good in Ubers but they are teams that aim to win in the builder and follow a process that removes player skill in-game. The player piloting baton pass will have to make some choices based on their opponent’s actions, however these are designed to be minimal. Whilst these teams are not good at all, given you are using PU mons to compete with Ubers and are effectively starting the game at a huge disadvantage, I can understand why they are unpopular. They require one person’s skill to build and anyone can mindlessly copy the team and attempt to pilot it. As such, I feel a complex ban to get rid of fullpass is solution which will be most agreeable to everyone - it has been done in previous generations of OU and Ubers has a history of complex bans (STag + Sleep Move) hence I see no reason why a limit on the number of passers in a team, or a complex ban of smeargle + ingrain should not be imposed.
TLDR; complex ban baton pass to get rid of fullpass - I feel like baton pass is worth preserving and getting rid of the single worst element of it before it is solved in ADV should suffice.
At the time I wrote that post there were 13 total reactions, 7 being laughing; I did check before I posted to make sure my statement was indeed factual because I’m not in the habit of making things up. Please refrain from insinuating otherwise. Its really not a relevant point - it was just meant to point out that the reactions to the posts had no evidence of “everyone disliking” baton pass.
I am aware that smashpass was unpopular, however it is not exactly a broken strategy; it is unreliable due to the myriad of counterplay which is readily available on most teams, but can be fun to use in less serious scenarios. The same applies to both SmashPass and GeoPass in ORAS.
I am fully aware that OU tiering has no impact on Ubers, however I would see it as silly that the tier with the fewest bans has in fact banned something not banned by a tier below it; I’m sure others would agree.
