Remember that these are not necessarily the exact teams they will use in the game and there are clear signs of edge cases for Fantina and Mira/Cheryl in particular (maybe they just only wanted Fantina to have 8 sets, or maybe she'll pull her ninth from somewhere else on the table and the Dragonite is a mistake
I don't think Cheryl is an anomalyOKAY SO
Yung Dramps and I were speculating on Battle Tower boss teams for want of any actual datamined set rosters (we still don't have those sadly)
and I was thinking "hey, I remember noticing Palmer's Pokémon were all close-ish together - I wonder if any other bosses' known Pokémon are positioned near potential teammates?"
so we both started looking for suspicious groups of Pokémon, and I happened to notice a very clear pattern that made it really, really obvious that a section of the set list was dedicated specifically to... 30 boss teams in a row, corresponding exactly (and in exactly the right order) to the same 30 teams we already knew were supposed to be bosses in the Battle Tower.
For reference:
This is the original sheet I was looking at - this sheet is not by me, but by /u/kenniky on Reddit! (I was going to wait to make my own Battle Tower sheet until we had solid datamining pointing to which Trainers had which sets and when they could appear, but someone had it formatted already and I was curious to explore the sets!)
To explain the pattern I found, let's take a look at like 752 - you'll see nine sets of Rock-types in a row (including two Rampardos), followed by an alternating pattern of one Rock-type, then one Steel-type, then one Rock-type, then one Steel-type until twelve more Pokémon (six Rock and six Steel, including two Rampardos and two Bastiodon) have been covered. Then right afterwards, there are nine sets of Grass-types in a row (including two Roserade)...
Across all of the last 210 lines of data, there is a clear pattern of 9 Pokémon for the single battle bosses of the Tower, followed immediately by 6 pairs of Pokémon for the double battle bosses of the tower. The double battle bosses also specifically alternate between the two Trainers in a perfectly consistent order (boss A/boss B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B for all 12) - there were absolutely no judgment calls made in attributing six Pokémon to each boss, and it's clear that the developers mostly inserted sets in a consistent way!
These account for all 30 teams we expected to find, have consistent numbers between single battles and double battles, and are even in the known rank order, making it very clear that this data is organized the way it is for a reason and it probably corresponds to those bosses!
That said, I need to qualify this - while it is mostly very obvious that these teams belong to the people I'm suggesting they do, there are a small handful of one-off exceptions that don't make sense. I have chosen to leave these intact but annotate them with comments highlighting that they are out of place, rather than make any arbitrary exceptions to the "pattern" I noticed, to make it clear how compelling the raw data is without any changes whatsoever and instead remind people that this data may not have a perfect 1:1 correlation after all.
The only obviously weird ones were:
- Mira and Cheryl (as the rank 2 doubles bosses) - Mira's 6 Pokémon by following the alternating pattern are clearly meant for her, but Cheryl then also ends up with three Pokémon that belonged to Mira in the past and it seems like they might not have the same 6-6 split as the other bosses...?- Fantina's ninth Pokémon (as the rank 5 singles boss)... uhhh wait 'til you see it haha- Saturn and Jupiter (as the rank 4 doubles bosses) - Saturn has a Skuntank that I would assume is probably meant for Jupiter...? but note that Saturn is made into a Poison specialist here, and Jupiter does also have a Skuntank, so it's not like he was taking it from her - unlike the other two, this might be an actual choice, just a weird one!
All of that is to say... this is all very speculative and there are clearly some exceptions to the pattern (these teams are not 100% accurate to the real ones), buuut I also thought it was cool as heck information and I wanted to post it anyway!
Here are my observations (speculative Battle Tower boss teams)
Despite the weird edge cases above muddying things a little, this actually gives us some really cool stuff - highlights include:
- Gardenia uses Mow Rotom, a Pokémon that not only is found in the Old Chateau that so terrifies her but was Ghost-type in Gen IV, which is freaking hilarious to me - this is clearly a joke in the same vein as teaming her up with Fantina later, and I love it!- Candice seizing the opportunity to grab a Regice - fitting for the Snowpoint Gym Leader!- Saturn and Jupiter becoming type specialists for Poison and Dark, two types Sinnoh didn't already have in its League! (For the most part, Trainers who were already monotype stayed that way, and Trainers who were not already monotype stayed that way, so this feels like a really interesting and deliberate choice; I like that they allowed themselves to make wacky choices and didn't force that for everyone, but in turn, that makes it more special in a way to see the cases when ILCA's take on a character specifically deviates from Game Freak's like this!)- Mars's new team having some really cute synergy with Cyrus: it took me a moment to understand her surprise pick of a Raichu, but it's playing Lightning Rod support for his Gyarados!- and Cyrus fINALLY using a Rotom for himself!! For those who don't know, he's meant to be the kid from the story in Rotom's room - he's the person who discovered Rotom and its ability to enter motors, and that's why he has a special interaction with the Rotom dex in USUM! this is not super well known information, and most people assume the kid from the story was Charon because you also find a more detached and scientific notebook from him, but this is apparently clearer in the original text and Cyrus has been associated with Rotom many times since.... Oh, yeah, and he has an Entei now I guess!
Anyway, I am super excited to have uncovered this and I wanted to share it : D
Remember that these are not necessarily the exact teams they will use in the game and there are clear signs of edge cases for Fantina and Mira/Cheryl in particular (maybe they just only wanted Fantina to have 8 sets, or maybe she'll pull her ninth from somewhere else on the table and the Dragonite is a mistake - and no I honestly couldn't tell you what the deal was with Mira and Cheryl :'D), but I am confident enough in the vast majority that I am not hesitating to share the bulk of them. This is all just for fun and I will absolutely be back with the final teams when we have proper internal data for it, but I love picking apart stuff like this on my own!!!
That would be an interesting error for a Japanese company to makeAll joking aside, I think I might have actually figured out a hilarious theory for what happened with Dragonite. While looking over Fantina's Pokemon I noticed Drifblim is missing. It's totally possible that on whatever interface they used the person manned at the desk so to speak typed in "Dr" and accidentally picked the autocomplete for "Dragonite" instead of "Drifblim", then passing it on to the actual set designer who was none the wiser.
Wow, plain awesomeness, you guys rock!!!OKAY SO
Yung Dramps and I were speculating on Battle Tower boss teams for want of any actual datamined set rosters (we still don't have those sadly)
and I was thinking "hey, I remember noticing Palmer's Pokémon were all close-ish together - I wonder if any other bosses' known Pokémon are positioned near potential teammates?"
so we both started looking for suspicious groups of Pokémon, and I happened to notice a very clear pattern that made it really, really obvious that a section of the set list was dedicated specifically to... 30 boss teams in a row, corresponding exactly (and in exactly the right order) to the same 30 teams we already knew were supposed to be bosses in the Battle Tower.
For reference:
This is the original sheet I was looking at - this sheet is not by me, but by /u/kenniky on Reddit! (I was going to wait to make my own Battle Tower sheet until we had solid datamining pointing to which Trainers had which sets and when they could appear, but someone had it formatted already and I was curious to explore the sets!)
To explain the pattern I found, let's take a look at like 752 - you'll see nine sets of Rock-types in a row (including two Rampardos), followed by an alternating pattern of one Rock-type, then one Steel-type, then one Rock-type, then one Steel-type until twelve more Pokémon (six Rock and six Steel, including two Rampardos and two Bastiodon) have been covered. Then right afterwards, there are nine sets of Grass-types in a row (including two Roserade)...
Across all of the last 210 lines of data, there is a clear pattern of 9 Pokémon for the single battle bosses of the Tower, followed immediately by 6 pairs of Pokémon for the double battle bosses of the tower. The double battle bosses also specifically alternate between the two Trainers in a perfectly consistent order (boss A/boss B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B for all 12) - there were absolutely no judgment calls made in attributing six Pokémon to each boss, and it's clear that the developers mostly inserted sets in a consistent way!
These account for all 30 teams we expected to find, have consistent numbers between single battles and double battles, and are even in the known rank order, making it very clear that this data is organized the way it is for a reason and it probably corresponds to those bosses!
That said, I need to qualify this - while it is mostly very obvious that these teams belong to the people I'm suggesting they do, there are a small handful of one-off exceptions that don't make sense. I have chosen to leave these intact but annotate them with comments highlighting that they are out of place, rather than make any arbitrary exceptions to the "pattern" I noticed, to make it clear how compelling the raw data is without any changes whatsoever and instead remind people that this data may not have a perfect 1:1 correlation after all.
The only obviously weird ones were:
-Mira and Cheryl (as the rank 2 doubles bosses) - Mira's 6 Pokémon by following the alternating pattern are clearly meant for her, but Cheryl then also ends up with three Pokémon that belonged to Mira in the past and it seems like they might not have the same 6-6 split as the other bosses...?NO I'M JUST DUMB! Thank you R_N for confirming-- Cheryl is using only Pokémon she already had in DPPt, just ones that happened to overlap with Mira's!That makes this WAY easier that was the one I was worried about- Fantina's ninth Pokémon (as the rank 5 singles boss)... uhhh wait 'til you see it haha- Saturn and Jupiter (as the rank 4 doubles bosses) - Saturn has a Skuntank that I would assume is probably meant for Jupiter...? but note that Saturn is made into a Poison specialist here, and Jupiter does also have a Skuntank, so it's not like he was taking it from her - unlike the other two, this might be an actual choice, just a weird one!
All of that is to say... this is all very speculative and there are clearly some exceptions to the pattern (these teams are not 100% accurate to the real ones), buuut I also thought it was cool as heck information and I wanted to post it anyway!
Here are my observations (speculative Battle Tower boss teams)
Despite the weird edge cases above muddying things a little, this actually gives us some really cool stuff - highlights include:
- Gardenia using Mow Rotom, a Pokémon that not only is found in the Old Chateau that so terrifies her but was Ghost-type in Gen IV, which is freaking hilarious to me - this is clearly a joke in the same vein as teaming her up with Fantina later, and I love it!- Candice seizing the opportunity to grab a Regice - fitting for the Snowpoint Gym Leader!- Saturn and Jupiter becoming type specialists for Poison and Dark, two types Sinnoh didn't already have in its League! (For the most part, Trainers who were already monotype stayed that way, and Trainers who were not already monotype stayed that way, so this feels like a really interesting and deliberate choice; I like that they allowed themselves to make wacky choices and didn't force that for everyone, but in turn, that makes it more special in a way to see the cases when ILCA's take on a character specifically deviates from Game Freak's like this!)- Mars's new team having some really cute synergy with Cyrus: it took me a moment to understand her surprise pick of a Raichu, but it's playing Lightning Rod support for his Gyarados!- and Cyrus fINALLY using a Rotom for himself!! For those who don't know, he's meant to be the kid from the story in Rotom's room - he's the person who discovered Rotom and its ability to enter motors, and that's why he has a special interaction with the Rotom dex in USUM! this is not super well known information, and most people assume the kid from the story was Charon because you also find a more detached and scientific notebook from him, but this is apparently clearer in the original text and Cyrus has been associated with Rotom many times since.... Oh, yeah, and he has an Entei now I guess!
Anyway, I am super excited to have uncovered this and I wanted to share it : D
Remember that these are not necessarily the exact teams they will use in the game and there are clear signs of edge cases for Fantina and Mira/Cheryl in particular (maybe they just only wanted Fantina to have 8 sets, or maybe she'll pull her ninth from somewhere else on the table and the Dragonite is a mistake - and no I honestly couldn't tell you what the deal was with Mira and Cheryl :'D), but I am confident enough in the vast majority that I am not hesitating to share the bulk of them. This is all just for fun and I will absolutely be back with the final teams when we have proper internal data for it, but I love picking apart stuff like this on my own!!!
I never thought about how crazy your plan of rotating 30 Pokemon was until I saw your team. You're nuts, dude. lolI had to manually manipulate the page to get the extra slots (at this rate I might make a planner myself for those who need more than 6 Pokémon to show), and there are some things to be confirmed depending on when they are obtained (most importantly, if I can get the starter I do not start with via Wonder Trade, and how Spiritomb works), but this is my plan:
View attachment 385188
I'm impressed you had a pic for a Ghost/Dragon Dragonite joke that didn't need editing.Dragon/Ghost Hisuian Dragonite confirmed!
Anyone have a theory on why Garchomp's fairy coverage is poison jab over iron head? My theory is to counter bulky grass types like Tangrowth and Torterra.
I never thought about how crazy your plan of rotating 30 Pokemon was until I saw your team. You're nuts, dude. lol
You're overestimating how overpowered shared Exp is. You're going to be underleveled, need grinding, or it's going to reward lower levels such a bonus against higher levels that it will somehow balance out. I'm guessing you won't believe me about the shared Exp if this works without grinding.
Unless I'm mistaken, as soon as you get to Floaroma.Do we know when Jirachi will be available for in game purpose ?
Say, why is the Dusclops unevolved? Do you like it more than Dusknoir?I'll be using one of these 3 teams, haven't decided yet:
I must say that the encounters not being like Platinum messed the teambuilding a bit. I'd like to use Rotom before the HoF. And I really hope that feebas doesn't have bullshit encounters like it had in DP and they pick a ORAS style encounter method.