How does a "double-dance lucario" sound?
Lucario@ Life Orb
252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid:
~Agility
~Nasty Plot
~Shadow Ball
~Aura Sphere
Lucario@ Life Orb
252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid:
~Agility
~Nasty Plot
~Shadow Ball
~Aura Sphere
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- Thread starter sax king
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The main problem that I see with this is that Lucario often won't get two free turns. (Also, you have neglected to allocate the last 4 EVs which doesn't matter that much.)
IMO it is better to just run Vacuum Wave over Agility, unless you can provide logs/know from playtesting of its effectiveness.
The idea of double dancing is not to use both agility AND nasty plot in a row, but if you are up against a walling team, you use nasty plot for more power, and if you are up against a faster, more fragile and offensive team, you use agility.
Exactly, But if your able to get both of them in a row. No ones stopping you (or Lucario for that matter).
The problem is, unlike Groudon in Ubers or Terakion in OU, his secondary move isn't powerful enough to handle the things that resist Aura Sphere. Gliscor, Dragonite, etc can survive a +2 Shadow Ball.
Volcarona @ Focus Sash
Timid
252 SpAtk / 252 Speed / 4 SpDef
Bug Buzz
Flame Dance
Butterfly Dance
HP Electric
So the biggest complaint I have/hear about Ulgamoth/Volcarona is that it's such a fail when you're up against entry hazards. So I figured making it into a suicide lead of sorts could be a pretty solid move.
How you play depends on what you're up against. Any lead that's looking like it'll use SR you just start dancing. After one or two dances Ulgamoth is obviously a solid sweeper. Other leads you can just skip the dance and start using Flame Dance/Bug Buzz to hit them hard (and maybe get a boost).
HP Electric is there because it gives you a great way to deal with the water types that switch in all the time. Yes, it means defensive Heatran kinda wall you. But since said Heatran is going to be a special attacker you're more likely to get a couple of hits in versus going up against Bulky Gyarados, who will hit hard with Waterfall. (HP Electric also gives my team much-needed coverage).
Oftentimes the sash never gets used. But it can also save you from things like a Focus Sash + Explosion Azelf.
Max spatk and speed EVs are obvious. The last 2 are basically pointless, but don't put them in HP because he's got an odd HP stat now (allowing two switchins to SR, however unlikely). You can easily switch to Modest for added power over speed.
Anyway, this lead has been hugely successful for me. Enjoy.
Timid
252 SpAtk / 252 Speed / 4 SpDef
Bug Buzz
Flame Dance
Butterfly Dance
HP Electric
So the biggest complaint I have/hear about Ulgamoth/Volcarona is that it's such a fail when you're up against entry hazards. So I figured making it into a suicide lead of sorts could be a pretty solid move.
How you play depends on what you're up against. Any lead that's looking like it'll use SR you just start dancing. After one or two dances Ulgamoth is obviously a solid sweeper. Other leads you can just skip the dance and start using Flame Dance/Bug Buzz to hit them hard (and maybe get a boost).
HP Electric is there because it gives you a great way to deal with the water types that switch in all the time. Yes, it means defensive Heatran kinda wall you. But since said Heatran is going to be a special attacker you're more likely to get a couple of hits in versus going up against Bulky Gyarados, who will hit hard with Waterfall. (HP Electric also gives my team much-needed coverage).
Oftentimes the sash never gets used. But it can also save you from things like a Focus Sash + Explosion Azelf.
Max spatk and speed EVs are obvious. The last 2 are basically pointless, but don't put them in HP because he's got an odd HP stat now (allowing two switchins to SR, however unlikely). You can easily switch to Modest for added power over speed.
Anyway, this lead has been hugely successful for me. Enjoy.
I know it requires prediction, but then what doesn't? You don't have to use Metal Burst on your first turn. You can always set up rocks, and at the very least get off an Endeavor or Stone Edge too. A lot of people use suicide leads just to set up rocks. This can do that just fine, and also has the option of killing a couple pokes if you are sure they will attack. It's like a win-win situation, unless you have a complete fail at predicting.
As for the replacement of Stone Edge, why would you be picking them off with Stone Edge? Metal Burst OHKO's pretty much anything that sends Aggron into Custap Mode, unless they have Focus Sash. It might be better at that point to just set up SR and pick it off with something else after Aggron dies. If you just are concerned about accuracy, then put on Rock Slide. The Rock Slide vs Stone Edge comparison isn't any different on Aggron than on any other Pokemon though.
And if it does get popular and people know a Metal Burst is coming, they will be scared to attack you, giving you further opportunities to set up SR.
For the record, you DON'T have to Metal Burst the first turn. Plus its not really that obvious that Metal Burst is coming, Aggron is far more dangerous as a CB Adamant 252 Head Smash sweeper.
Also actually, i derped. It wasn't Outrage I put there, it was Sandstorm. >_> Although SS damage will result in a double switch if it is pulled off, so its not really so good. urgh.
Also actually, i derped. It wasn't Outrage I put there, it was Sandstorm. >_> Although SS damage will result in a double switch if it is pulled off, so its not really so good. urgh.
Lilligant bulky dance set
- Butterfly Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice
Item : Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Ability: Chlorophyll
EV: 120 Def / 252 S.Atk / 136 Spe
With 136 Spe make her reach 500 speed in sun to out speed scarf chomp 120 Def because Sdef will already boost by Bdance. I'm not sure how bulk is her can be.
- Butterfly Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice
Item : Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Ability: Chlorophyll
EV: 120 Def / 252 S.Atk / 136 Spe
With 136 Spe make her reach 500 speed in sun to out speed scarf chomp 120 Def because Sdef will already boost by Bdance. I'm not sure how bulk is her can be.
If you want to run a set like that, wouldn't it be better to use something like Flamethrower or Fire Blast over Flame Dance, for the extra damage output? Also, I don't know how Volcarona matches up against common leads...
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Mild Nature
Torrent
148 Atk / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass
- Superpower
HP Grass for Gastrodon/Quagsire, Ice Beam for Grass types, Superpower for Chansey/Registeel, and Hydro Pump for STAB. Here are some calcs:
Superpower vs 4 HP/252 Def Chansey
578 - 680 90% - 105.9%
Superpower vs 252 HP/4 Def Registeel
188 - 222 51.6% - 61%
Superpower vs 248 HP/252 Def Milotic
112 - 132 28.5% - 33.6%
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SDef Registeel
108 - 127 29.7% - 34.9%
HP Grass vs 248 HP/252 Def Milotic
128 - 152 32.6% - 38.7%
There's a 50% chance that Flame Dance will immediately become more powerful than both, and keep on rising in power, why not use it? It also means Ulgamoth's ability to attack isn't completely compromised by Taunt.
As a lead, Ulgamoth used to be fantastic, netting 6-0s with ease. I'm not sure how it will compare today, but common leads such as Kojondo have fallen in usage whilst leads like Blaziken and Genosect are more popular, and they're much more manageable for Ulga. It all depends.
It would be nice if you said what Pokemon this moveset was for.
Edit: I thought Lilligant was a word describing the movestet... I need to think good... er
Anti Lead Nidoking
Nidoking@Focus Sash
Timid
252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Atk
Taunt
Icy Wind
Stealth Rock
Toxic Spikes
This thing is amazing. Icy Wind lowers the Speed of anything you need it to, so you get Rocks up no matter what. Faster Taunters like Aerodactyl get completely destroyed by Icy Wind and your Taunt wears off. There are just so many leads right now that its tough to list them, but Crobat, of course is weak to Icy Wind. Not only that, but those sets with White Herb-Curse are killed by Icy Wind. I have so much success with this set, check it out. I am usually able to get SR up and one layer of TSpikes, and a lot of times 2. Sometimes you'll only get SR, but you'll lower speed and make easy clean up for your next Poke.
Nidoking@Focus Sash
Timid
252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Atk
Taunt
Icy Wind
Stealth Rock
Toxic Spikes
This thing is amazing. Icy Wind lowers the Speed of anything you need it to, so you get Rocks up no matter what. Faster Taunters like Aerodactyl get completely destroyed by Icy Wind and your Taunt wears off. There are just so many leads right now that its tough to list them, but Crobat, of course is weak to Icy Wind. Not only that, but those sets with White Herb-Curse are killed by Icy Wind. I have so much success with this set, check it out. I am usually able to get SR up and one layer of TSpikes, and a lot of times 2. Sometimes you'll only get SR, but you'll lower speed and make easy clean up for your next Poke.
Do many people Taunt a Nido lead? I mean maybe it's just me, but I think of him as an offensive antilead so I'd just SR and die/get the hell out if I were Aero. I'd think a countertaunt turn 1 to prevent them stopping you getting up your own hazards is useful, but Icy Wind doesn't seem too necessary to me on this set (which seems like Nidoqueen may do it better) and like it'd work better on a LO set looking to 2HKO common leads which normally outspeed you.
EDIT: Just realised a LO set wouldn't work as Encourage would negate Icy Wind's effect.
WTF.. Shit man. Wrecked mah team once, so hard to take down. I've used it, annoyed shit. lol. It's really fucking good.
Clefable@Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EV: 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Facade/Seismic Toss
This set would need a Magneton teammate cause this set easily lures steel types, allowing your Magneton to trap it and kill it, anyways, to explain the moves. Protect easily gets me Toxic Orb activated, thus making my Facade a 140 BP STAB move. Also, an immunity to status ailments. Protect can also be used to dodge Explosions and other, as well as giving my Clefable to heal with Wish. Wish(and Protect)allows me to stall with Toxic. Seismic Toss was listed here cause it was a choice. Toxic and Facade won't work on steel types, that is why this set lures them, this is where Magneton arrives. The given EV's were stolen from Clefable's analysis. So, I don't need to explain it..
I think metronome would be better, no?
Metronome is only better after the fifth time you use the move, which is when Togekiss probably has taken too many hits because of it´s own too low damage output. Specs is better imo, but in the end it comes down to preference.
Btw any reason why this gets attention but Fury Cutter was neglected all this time from GSC on? Just asking.
Btw any reason why this gets attention but Fury Cutter was neglected all this time from GSC on? Just asking.
Both are crappy/gimmicky moves and i doubt they will get much attention.
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Mild Nature
Torrent
148 Atk / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass
- Superpower
HP Grass for Gastrodon/Quagsire, Ice Beam for Grass types, Superpower for Chansey/Registeel, and Hydro Pump for STAB. Here are some calcs:
Superpower vs 4 HP/252 Def Chansey
578 - 680 90% - 105.9%
Superpower vs 252 HP/4 Def Registeel
188 - 222 51.6% - 61%
Superpower vs 248 HP/252 Def Milotic
112 - 132 28.5% - 33.6%
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/252 SDef Registeel
108 - 127 29.7% - 34.9%
HP Grass vs 248 HP/252 Def Milotic
128 - 152 32.6% - 38.7%
Once Encourage is out, wouldn't it be superior to Torrent for increased damage on Ice Beam? Anyways, those calcs on Milotic aren't looking too good for Feraligatr. Milotic can Recover off that damage easily.
Since the main point of HP Grass was to hit Milotic, I suggest replacing it with Toxic to really annoy it and turn this Feraligatr into more of a stallbreaker.
Yes you're absolutely right, perhaps we should make a thread devoted to unconventional moves and strategies?
..oh.
If by "attention" you mean a whopping 1 post, this warrants a review of the two moves.
Fury Cutter is an inaccurate physical Bug move with 20 base power (max 160), Echo Voice is a fully accurate special Normal move with 40 base power (max 200). Echo Voice is also different, in that its power gets multiplied by teammates using it in multi-battles.
So they're obviously different - what's apparent is that whilst Fury Cutter is so beyond crap that it couldn't even be called a gimmick, Echo Voice actually could be pulled off, even outside of the Multi-battle scenario it was designed to inhabit. This move meant I was swept by a goddamn Noctowl (though that can be put down to my godawfully slow and crap team)
I'd be interested to see what people can do with it.
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