FINALLY. All stupid setup (emphasis on stupid) can go die now.
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Ditto
- Thread starter Emperor
- Start date
I kinda have mixed feelings about this guy. On one hand, I am worried that this guy will really hurt offense, particually set up sweeping. HO will really suffer, as they won't be able to take a hit from or out speed this guy. However, I don't think he will completely shut down set up sweepers, as there are ways to get round him. First of all, Substitute is great, as Ditto cannot beat a sweeper that's behind a sub. Also, if your sweeper is priority weak, you can pack a priority user to beat it (Breloom anyone?) Plus, any counter that doesn't need to out-speed can take him down.
Don't get me wrong, Ditto is going to be a top tier mon, but I don't think he's going to be this metagame destroying beast that some of you think he will be.
Don't get me wrong, Ditto is going to be a top tier mon, but I don't think he's going to be this metagame destroying beast that some of you think he will be.
hopefully it'll serve as a deterrent to the boosting spam that saturates the metagame and i swear to god if i ever see one of those mindless dual screen + 5 booster teams again i'm gonna smash a bro.
but i would struggle to justify his inclusion in a team over say, Scarf Terrakion or Landorus, which already revenge kills just about everything and has a lot more general utility and tactical flexibility.
but i would struggle to justify his inclusion in a team over say, Scarf Terrakion or Landorus, which already revenge kills just about everything and has a lot more general utility and tactical flexibility.
Sweet, now a bunch of people just decided to run a useless pokemon on their teams from my perpsective as I run a stall team, at least scarf-terrakion can hit my team and do damage.
I mean wo yay ditto best revenge killer.
I mean wo yay ditto best revenge killer.
I don't think that Ditto is useless against stall teams. It can steal your hazards, your rapid spinner, your cleric, etc. Obviously holding a Scarf seriously limits it's options, and it also has less HP than most walls, so i can't really tell if it is useful against stall or no.
Just some thoughts.
Exactly. It can use your own strategy against you and screw with your walls. You run status moves? Ditto can steal them and status you with them. You put down toxic spikes? Ditto can copy toxic spikes and give you a taste of your own medicine. I see in Imposter Ditto limitless potential.
If someone tries to set up with my own hazards, ill just rapid spin them until their deal lol. Ditto has no form of recovery outside of switiching into one of my pokemon and recovering as it, which gives me plenty of set up oppotunity for hazards. To be honest this is reminding me of a bad starmie from a stallers prespective.
Hence the reason he copies your Rapid Spin to remove those hazards you just set up.
I could see Ditto actually being a ligitament answer to stall.
I don't think you understand that I have control of the game then, lets say for example he comes in on skarm, copies and uses spikes, I switch to my spinner and just spin them away and maybe set up in its face. Now that my spinners job is done, what are you going to do? Im not going to switch it back in unless you have hazards yourself, which if this if your "answer to stall," you don't. Now your effectively stuck with hazards until the end of the game. It's the same tail if you switch into Blissey for softboiled, except its even worse.
Moody was uncompetitive for the most part because it boosted evasion.
When you switch in Ditto for the first time, is he locked into the that mon for the rest of the game? If so, ignore what I said. Ditto won't work very well against stall.
problem with using ditto to counter stall in the manner that people are describing is that you're constantly going to be forfeiting momentum by locking yourself into things like Choice'd Spikes or Choice'd Rapid Spin - options you'd never consider normally because they're so punishable. and it's not as if you'll ever get that spin off anyway because Jellicent can come in for almost-free on stuff like Starmie because even if you predict it and use Thunderbolt it a) isn't backed up by Life Orb so won't do enough damage and b) is Choice locked so you can just switch straight to Ferrothorn and get a layer up.
and stall is all about knowledge and damage limitation - two things that are a lot easier when you know the exact moveset and stat distribution of the pokemon you're facing down, which will be the case with Ditto.
i admit i'm not a huge stall player but i'd be interested to hear some notes from stall players about playing against ditto.
and stall is all about knowledge and damage limitation - two things that are a lot easier when you know the exact moveset and stat distribution of the pokemon you're facing down, which will be the case with Ditto.
i admit i'm not a huge stall player but i'd be interested to hear some notes from stall players about playing against ditto.
Ditto really isn't that cool of a pokemon. Especially in a metagame where things are based off of bulky offensive sets. Ditto can come in on Keldeo using Calm Mind, try to KO with Secret Sword, only deal 50% and then get OHKOed in return.
It is a deterrent to set up, say, Moxie Mence when Ditto is on the opponents teams. But in the same regards it's a deterrent to use Volt Switch when the opponent has Gastrodon. I view these things as the same.
It is a deterrent to set up, say, Moxie Mence when Ditto is on the opponents teams. But in the same regards it's a deterrent to use Volt Switch when the opponent has Gastrodon. I view these things as the same.
I personally think scarf is a baaaaaad idea, as it removes the numerous utility a ditto can offer if played right. Personally, when I used ditto in dw tier it was to scout movesets and do some devious mind games here and there. This is gonna probably get denigrated out the butt, but I often went with quick claw as in a speed tie situation you'll statistically come out on top. Don't depend on it of course (ie don't let the setup happen if you can), but its saved me a few times and allowed better flexibility in choosing my next move.
From my completely inexperienced point of view, it looks like Imposter Ditto is only there to wreak havoc on set-up sweepers. It steals the boosts, and hits just as hard, but faster, in return.
As soon as Shadow Tag Chandelure hits the metagame, we will see some sort of beautiful, broken synergy as Ditto harms boosters and Chandelure walks all over Choice users. If you boost, then Ditto will steal the limelight and turn them against you. If you use Choiced moves, then you better not be using any Normal- or (more commonly) Fighting-type moves. Chandelure also wields six resistances, so Choicing any of those would be a huge risk. With a Choice item of its own, Chandelure can also put the Trick back in Trick Room, cripple anything, boost, and perhaps Trick back its Specs and steamroll anything that opposes it.
So yeah, we'll either see a ban or two, or offense in general is going to take a huge hit.
Wonder how this will fare in Ubers?
As soon as Shadow Tag Chandelure hits the metagame, we will see some sort of beautiful, broken synergy as Ditto harms boosters and Chandelure walks all over Choice users. If you boost, then Ditto will steal the limelight and turn them against you. If you use Choiced moves, then you better not be using any Normal- or (more commonly) Fighting-type moves. Chandelure also wields six resistances, so Choicing any of those would be a huge risk. With a Choice item of its own, Chandelure can also put the Trick back in Trick Room, cripple anything, boost, and perhaps Trick back its Specs and steamroll anything that opposes it.
So yeah, we'll either see a ban or two, or offense in general is going to take a huge hit.
Wonder how this will fare in Ubers?
Ditto isn't broken at all whatsoever.
To stop it completely:
1. Run sub
2. Run a counter to your sweeper (only one of their moves)
3. Don't set up
And with a metagame littered with voltturn and stuff, that isn't too hard to do.
Ditto is only as good as the metagame it is in.
If it's sent to nu, it can only copy nu pokes, therefore it's nu.
If it's in ubers, it copies uber pokes and can perform as an uber.
The options are limitless, but still controlled.
If anything it will serve to limit the boring ho meta.
Chandy on the other hand... now that completely wrecks any hopes of a good metagame
To stop it completely:
1. Run sub
2. Run a counter to your sweeper (only one of their moves)
3. Don't set up
And with a metagame littered with voltturn and stuff, that isn't too hard to do.
Ditto is only as good as the metagame it is in.
If it's sent to nu, it can only copy nu pokes, therefore it's nu.
If it's in ubers, it copies uber pokes and can perform as an uber.
The options are limitless, but still controlled.
If anything it will serve to limit the boring ho meta.
Chandy on the other hand... now that completely wrecks any hopes of a good metagame
Neither of those things should happen. Chandelure is a good pokemon with scarf aside from it being like a wet paper bag defensively (it faces a OHKO coming in on Loom's Bullet Seed with Stealth Rock down). And Ditto doesn't do much better coming in on calm mind users (it needs a crit to win). Talking about banning this early doesn't help anything
It's tough to say what kind of effect Ditto is going to have in a Smogon metagame, but from my Dream World experiences, he wasn't that annoying. Once he got in on the Pokemon, it was always obvious which move he was going to use and you could just switch to something to wall it. Plus, if you're using mainly wallbreakers, defensive boosters, defensive Pokemon, or just a Pokemon with a STAB that can't sweep on its own (Grass), you're down a Pokemon. There are too many ways for him to fail. It's a good niche but I don't think he does enough to be a top contender in OU.
I honestly thing this would be a diferent story if team preview didn't exist, people would be more eager to gain massive boosts, and then ditto comes in and bye bye. I remember playing on some outfitted shoddy servers before PO that lacked team preview and this was easy as cake.
Or given a bit more time, they'd wisen up and always be worried about a Ditto.
