Eviolite

Breludicolo said:
@Bologo's big post

Togetic seems to be fine; dunno if it will work in practice though.

Machoke is outclassed by dotekkotsu (roob's prevo), who boasts sliiiightly lower SpD but higher HP, defense, and attack, which is worth it IMO if you're not using dynamicpunch.

Shelgon and rhydon are good on paper but not in practice - both have nice attack stats and all but skarm can use both as spikes setup fodder and then just ww them away if they get a few too many boosts.
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For Machoke, Light Screen and Encore can be important tools that the Roopushin line doesn't have. I took Dotekkotsu into consideration too, but Light Screen is really good for a Bulk Up user since they're not boosting their Special Defense with Bulk Up. Encore means that things trying to set up on him won't be able to. I thought about DynamicPunch too. It's a good option, but I didn't like the idea of being screwed by Burn. However, I'll add it as an option.

And yes, Skarmory can beat Shelgon...but do you seriously believe Skarmory is going to beat Rhydon? Did you forget that Swords Dance is also on the set and that Skarmory will take a shitload from Stone Edge? After a Swords Dance, Stone Edge against the Specially Defense Skarmory which seems to be the most common will do 73.1% - 86.2%. Seriously, if Skarmory comes in while Rhydon uses Swords Dance, Skarmory is completely screwed, because he'll either die, or be complete death fodder for the rest of the match. Don't forget that Rhydon has an equal Attack stat to Garchomp. Even Skarmory will have trouble taking attacks like that.
 
I want to know all your opinions on the following mons with evo stones

murkrow (Mischevious Heart lead)
Machoke (bulkier machamp)
Pineco
Magneton
Ranpuraa (mini Shandera)
Haunter
Baruchai (mini vulture)
Metang
 
sax king said:
I want to know all your opinions on the following mons with evo stones

murkrow (Mischevious Heart lead)
Machoke (bulkier machamp)
Pineco
Magneton
Ranpuraa (mini Shandera)
Haunter
Baruchai (mini vulture)
Metang
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Murkrow was actually ridiculously good, and it was good enough to warrant my time to give it an analysis. Mischievous Heart is an such a ridiculous ability, and Murkrow has a great movepool for it, and thanks to Evolution Stone, the defenses to use it. Don't use him as a lead. Voltolos does the lead job much better. Use Murkrow as a staller or a Perish Trapper, early or lategame.

Machoke, I just explained a few posts up.

Pineco is defensively worse than Forretress, even with Evolution Stone. Forretress is 5% bulkier physically, and 0.7% bulkier on the special side. With Forretress's much better typing and Leftovers recovery, don't waste your time.

Magneton seems like it could do quite well with Rest/Sleep Talk/Charge Beam/Flash Cannon with a defensive spread and Magnet Pull. If you can trap a Steel, you can easily set up to +6. The only problem is that even with ridiculous defenses, he has no way to raise his Speed, which hinders his ability to sweep. You could also make use of his Dream World ability, Analyze, with 252 HP/252 SpA Quiet with 0 Speed IVs and Evolution Stone. That would let you be a bulky attacker with really high powered attacks, especially on a Rain team with STAB Thunder. He can also be a good dual screener.

Lampera sounds alright. I don't think a CM or revenge-killing set would be very good on him though, since having no Leftovers and poor Speed is a bad combination on a CM set especially. Maybe a Shadow Tag Curse set with Pain Split could work. At the very least, it could really hurt a Stall team, since a lot of their members have high HP for Pain Split, and the walls won't be able to do much to your defenses while they die slowly to Curse.
Maybe Curse/Taunt/Pain Split/Flamethrower?

As for Haunter, seriously, just use Misdreavus. Misdreavus is only 10 base Speed lower, but she's much, much bulkier on both sides. Plus, she's a better Perish Trapper since she can do it several times, which is the only reason you'd really want to use Evolution Stone on Haunter in the first place. However, Haunter has one thing over her as a Perish Trapper, which is Hypnosis...Perish Song + Mean Look + sleep move is a good combination at least.

Baruchai is like Pineco. Barujiina is still better defensively on both sides despite the Evolution Stone because of her much higher HP.

Metang doesn't look very good. Maybe he could be used as a dual screener or Stealth Rocker, but his support movepool isn't very good and his attack is too low to do very much with it. I dunno, he seems like setup bait to me.

That's my 2 cents on those pokemon.
 
I've been using Gloom with evo stone for my own amusement, since it's my personal favorite poke and nobody ever expects it, though there isn't really a whole lot of use I've found for it other than throwing status around. Would still like some advice on ways to get maybe a little more mileage out of it, but I understand if there's really nothing more to say.

I had some fun with Chobomaki as a spiker and passing Acid Armor, then tried spiking with Yabukuron over Dasutodasu and had so-so luck.
 
Oh, that's really strange. I could've sworn he learned it in Gen 4 but I guess not, despite his massive arms compared to Togekiss's nubs...I guess I'll edit Drain Punch out and just put DynamicPunch as the main option. That seriously lowers the sets effectiveness though.
 
Bologo said:
Oh, that's really strange. I could've sworn he learned it in Gen 4 but I guess not, despite his massive arms compared to Togekiss's nubs...I guess I'll edit Drain Punch out and just put DynamicPunch as the main option. That seriously lowers the sets effectiveness though.
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I still don't know how togikiss forms a fist with it's thick-ass wings!

Machoke is almost complexly outclassed now....all he has is no guard...woo :/

Gligar and chansey are the best users...I'm really happy cuz I like the both of them more then their evolutions :)
 
Bologo said:
And yes, Skarmory can beat Shelgon...but do you seriously believe Skarmory is going to beat Rhydon? Did you forget that Swords Dance is also on the set and that Skarmory will take a shitload from Stone Edge? After a Swords Dance, Stone Edge against the Specially Defense Skarmory which seems to be the most common will do 73.1% - 86.2%. Seriously, if Skarmory comes in while Rhydon uses Swords Dance, Skarmory is completely screwed, because he'll either die, or be complete death fodder for the rest of the match. Don't forget that Rhydon has an equal Attack stat to Garchomp. Even Skarmory will have trouble taking attacks like that.
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The problem I see with this idea is that it's reliant not only on the fact that the Rhydon player is worse than the Skarm player but that the Rhydon player uses SD on the switch and that a water- (or less likely, grass-) type, or, even worse, a balloon dory, does not switch in. If rhydon uses SD on the switch, it's a slow piece of junk that is at the mercy of its counter... I.E. pretty much rhyperior. If it uses RS on the switch, it's not strong enough (much like Shanderaa) to OHKO things, especially without a life orb to help it.

To put it simply, although I realize they differ in taking neutral and reisisted hits, both Rhydon and Rhyperior are the same - too slow and possessing too shitty a typing.
 
Bologo said:
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Rhydon

Rhydon @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Rock Head
Jolly Nature

- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / Megahorn

Rhydon is a strange pre-evolution, because regardless of his stats, his massive amounts of weaknesses make it hard for him to take a walling/tanking role. So instead, I decided to give him a sweeping role. Basically, the idea is to use Rhydon's obscene bulk to pull off a Rock Polish sweep, with possible Swords Dances in between.

To give you an idea of how bulky this thing is, this guy is taking physical hits 4% BETTER than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Deoxys-D with no investment whatsoever. Under Sandstorm, which you ideally want to use this under, he's taking special hits 5% better than 252 HP Jirachi. Without Sandstorm, he's 2% Specially bulkier than 0/0 Salamence, which still isn't bad. Garchomp's Choice Band Outrage isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO, Scizor's CB Bullet Punch is barely a 2HKO, and without the Choice Band, it's not even guaranteed. Roopushin's max Attack Mach Punch can't even break 30%. CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet will never OHKO either. Basically, statwise, Rhydon is the bulkiest sweeper in the game. If it weren't for the Ground/Rock typing, this thing would be an absolute monster defensively.

However, Ground/Rock is a great offensive typing, so that's what this set takes advantage of. Rock Polish with max Speed and Jolly puts him just ahead of max Speed Skymin, which is a good target to beat since he can destroy Rhydon easily otherwise. Swords Dance is a good option on this set as well, since Rhydon is bulky enough to get more than one boost, and without Life Orb and no Adamant nature, you might find his damage output a bit low for a sweeper. Megahorn is an option too though if you want to hit Psychic and Grass-types for SE damage, which is good against stuff like Jaroda and Celebi. I personally think Swords Dance is a better option though, since this lets it destroy walls as well.

If you think it's a good idea, you can also provide him with Screen support, so that he can basically set up on any attack in the game, since absolutely nothing, is killing him if he has screen support combined with those defenses.
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Actually, Rhyperior does this still better.
With a spread of 172 Atk/84 Sdef /252 Spe, he reaches the same Atk and Speed stat as Rhydon. While having 108 Def and 27 SDef less, Rhyperior benefits from 20 HP more, leftovers recovery and Solid rock.
Against super effective hits, Solid rock causes Rhyperior to take roughly the same damage Rhydon does. Against neutral hits, both of them take small damage anyway, so Leftovers tip the scale once again in Rhyperior´s favor.
The only case, where Rhydon is superior, is against really strong neutral attacks, where the higher damage taken by Rhyperior can´t be counterbalanced by Leftovers. These cases are rare though, as for an attack to be strong enough to fulfil that, it most likely has to be a booster, and most boosters can hit a ground/rock pokemon super effective.
Unless the sets you posted were desigend for UU, if thats the case i didnt say anything :D
I Hope everyone understood what i wanted to say
 
Ok, I decided to try Rhydon in about 20 matches or so, and I've decided that without screens, he kinda sucks. The problem is that although he can set up Rock Polish and Swords Dance with ease, even against super-effective attacks most of the time, he still misses out on the kill for a lot of walls. The problem with this is that a lot of walls have Water or Grass attacks, which still OHKO him, despite the high defenses.

Nattorei is an especially large problem, because Power Whip still goes through those huge defenses. Bulky Waters can still go through him too. It kinda sucks that he just misses out on the OHKO on so many walls as well. If he had the ability to hold Life Orb it would be so much easier. God this guy needs Head Smash. It's a wonder as to why he doesn't already have it.

Maybe Rhyperior actually is better with Solid Rock and the ability to hold Life Orb, since he actually does take super-effective hits better despite the lower defenses. Because for now, I've only really seen Rhydon be an inferior Doryuuzu...

Meh, I guess Rhydon will at least be viable in UU whenever it starts. It's just a pity that something with stats like Rhydon's totally can't take advantage of them because of craptastic defensive typing. If only he was Ground/Steel, or Ground/Dragon or Rock/Dragon or something. :(
 
Bologo said:
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Togetic

Togetic @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Serene Grace

- Baton Pass
- Nasty Plot
- Wish / Roost
- Magic Coat


I saw that people were looking for a niche for Evolution Stone Togetic, and being the bulkiest overall PlotPasser in the game is quite a good one.

--
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Another niche that sprung to mind with Togetic, a much more unique one, is abusing Serene Grace. Sure, others like Jirachi and even Togetic's older brother Togekiss may do flinchhax well, and most definitely better, but with Evo Stone's additional bulk it allows Togetic to become a different beast altogether.

Serene Grace Abuse Togetic
252 HP/ 60 SpA/ 196 SpD
Bold
Serene Grace
-Ominous Wind
-HP Fighting
-Roost
-Tri Attack

When looking at Togetic's movepool, it's pretty clear that GF had a role in mind, as it is the only Pokemon to learn all three moves that have a 10% chance to raise each stat 1 stage. With Serene Grace this is now 20%. Of course, building a set based around a 20% chance of something happening seems pretty silly, but with Evo Stone giving Togetic somewhat insane bulk it makes it much more viable. Ominous Wind is chosen as the stat boosting move of choice because along with HP Fighting it is unresisted, even in Gen V. Roost allows recovery and Tri Attack provides reliable STAB, along with the quite great 40% chance of burning, sleeping or paralysing the opponent.

It may be a bit gimmicky, but I think it could work, thanks to the Pre-Evolutionary Stone.
 
elchupo said:
Another niche that sprung to mind with Togetic, a much more unique one, is abusing Serene Grace. Sure, others like Jirachi and even Togetic's older brother Togekiss may do flinchhax well, and most definitely better, but with Evo Stone's additional bulk it allows Togetic to become a different beast altogether.

Serene Grace Abuse Togetic
252 HP/ 60 SpA/ 196 SpD
Bold
Serene Grace
-Ominous Wind
-HP Fighting
-Roost
-Tri Attack

When looking at Togetic's movepool, it's pretty clear that GF had a role in mind, as it is the only Pokemon to learn all three moves that have a 10% chance to raise each stat 1 stage. With Serene Grace this is now 20%. Of course, building a set based around a 20% chance of something happening seems pretty silly, but with Evo Stone giving Togetic somewhat insane bulk it makes it much more viable. Ominous Wind is chosen as the stat boosting move of choice because along with HP Fighting it is unresisted, even in Gen V. Roost allows recovery and Tri Attack provides reliable STAB, along with the quite great 40% chance of burning, sleeping or paralysing the opponent.

It may be a bit gimmicky, but I think it could work, thanks to the Pre-Evolutionary Stone.
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Problem:

Shut down and set up on by bulky sweepers

Shut down and set up on by walls with hazards

Normal types

Spamming a 60 bp move is never a good idea, with those offenses

Bad defensive typing is unideal for something that likely needs to stay in for a while

Needs Baton Pass, which means it's walled by Steels

So yeah.
 
Wow... The Magnet line finally has something great to use as an item for eliminating Steel-types. Possibly the best part about Magneton using this is that even if its item gets knocked off, it's still a good Pokémon. It will be really good on a hail team with the cutest Pokémon ever, Kyurem!

Plus Magneton already has higher speed. Now the only reason not to use Magneton for eliminating Steel-types is for recovering lost Substitute HP with Leftovers and also for the 40 more HP stat points and 20 more Special Attack points. (not base stats)
An actual good reason would be because Magneton can't hold Balloon and then Magnet Rise anymore.

Bologo said:
A 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Munchlax takes Special hits just 1% less than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey, which is pretty damn sweet.

Basically, a 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Munchlax would take special hits almost identically to 252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey, while taking physical hits a little worse, though that's still pretty impressive considering that Munchlax didn't even invest in his physical defense.
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Considering that Munchlax doesn't need to fully invest in HP, it should reach Chansey levels of bulky with this thing! ...I wonder what effect one of these Munchlax, with Curse, will have on Little Cup... Poor Little Cup. If I wasn't experienced enough to not instantly judge something because of its stats, I might even go so far as to call Munchlax broken under the Defensive Characteristic. But, I've never played Little Cup, so I can't say with even a slight amount of sureness.
 
N00b Lyf3 said:
.........It would still suck.
Well anyway is it just me or is Gligar not getting enough love?Its AMAZING with a Pre evo stone and it also has a pretty handy ability stopping it from getting Toxic Stalled to death.Yah not as good as Gliscors ability but its hell lot bulkier...Most Gliscor sets nowadays are mainly super deffensive ones trying to beat the new threats like the Fighters/Dory anyway.
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Using Prevo stone Gligar on a SS team with sand Veil just makes physical attackers cry
 
TorchicBlaziken said:
Wow... The Magnet line finally has something great to use as an item for eliminating Steel-types. Possibly the best part about Magneton using this is that even if its item gets knocked off, it's still a good Pokémon. It will be really good on a hail team with the cutest Pokémon ever, Kyurem!

Plus Magneton already has higher speed. Now the only reason not to use Magneton for eliminating Steel-types is for recovering lost Substitute HP with Leftovers and also for the 40 more HP stat points and 20 more Special Attack points. (not base stats)
An actual good reason would be because Magneton can't hold Balloon and then Magnet Rise anymore.

And considering that half of all Blissey sets don't even invest in HP, and Munchlax should never invest that much in HP... It should be bulkier than a Chansey with this thing! ...I wonder what effect one of these Munchlax, with Curse, will have on Little Cup... Poor Little Cup. If I wasn't experienced enough to not instantly judge something because of its stats, I might even go so far as to call Munchlax broken under the Defensive Characteristic. But, I've never played Little Cup, so I can't say with even a slight amount of sureness.
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It's really cool that nearly all Bliss and Lax invest in HP
 
Although when one's base HP is very high EV investments have comparatively low impact on the stat, it still has the advantage of boosting both defences. And now with the new Wish Chansey is definitely going to invest HP heavily.
 
Magmar

Magmar can be actually pretty awesome with this stone. He likes Wish/Rapid Spin support, though.

126.png


Total Burnmar
Magmar @ Evo Stone
252 HP / 156 DEF / 100 SP.ATK
Bold Nature
Flame Body
-Toxic
-Lava Plume / Flamethrower / Fire Blast
-Hidden Power [Rock] / [Ground] / [Fight] / [Whatever]
-Counter / Will-O-Wisp / Protect

With the stone and this EV spread, his stats end up being:
HP: 334
Attack: 203
Defense: 309
Sp Attack: 261
Sp Defense: 307
Speed: 221

The purpose of this set is simple. Switch into Fake Outs / U-turns / Resisted Physical moves over and over and attempt to get the 30% burn chance for Flame Body. Use Toxic to end the fun for any walls who might want to switch in, standard fire attacks are there so that you're not total setup fodder. The Hidden Power is there depending on what you need Magmar to do. I use Rock to damage Urugamoth, but to use Magmar to counter him, you might want to run a few SP.DEF EVs. His 85 Special Defense is tough enough to take some special abuse with the evo stone, however. Counter is a fun toy for when you're up against an opponent who has a strong super effective Super Effective attck that can't K.O. Magmar, like Stone Edge. Not even jolly Tyranitar's Stone Edge can OHKO him on its own.
 
UU Hippo

Hippopotas @ Evolution Stone
EVs: 240 HP / 88 Def / 180 SpD
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def Nature, -Spe)
IVs: 0 Speed
Ability: ANALYZE (For more power)

Toxic
Slack-off
Stealth Rock / Roar
Stockpile / Roar

Without a good attack, Earthquake isn't worth it... If fearful of Taunt, switch out. Toxic shuffling, and entry hazards are to ensure Hippo Jr. can dish out its own form of damage, while a Slack off and Stockpile allow it to stall out Toxic damage. Stockpile also takes further advantage and builds on the boosts from the Evolution Stone, helping it take moves from both sides of the spectrum.

With the stone and this EV spread, his stats end up being:
HP: 337 (Leftovers # +1)
Attack: 180
Defense: 351
Sp Attack: 112
Sp Defense: 247
Speed: 59 [-Spe, +Def Nature; 0 Spe IVs to control weather vs Snover)
 
So there has been talk of making an Evo Stone team, and I was wondering....

What are some good leads?
Walls (easy question)?
Sweepers?
Supporters?
Is it even viable competitively?
 
sax king said:
So there has been talk of making an Evo Stone team, and I was wondering....

What are some good leads?
Walls (easy question)?
Sweepers?
Supporters?
Is it even viable competitively?
Click to expand...

It might be viable, but many Stoned NFEs are outclassed by their evolutions despite higher defenses so it would be hard to justify making a wholly Evo Stone team competitively.

When the lower tiers are established though this item could well define those metagames. I can't help but feel that this item will stagnate these tiers, just looking at the extreme defensive potential of many of the pokemon detailed in this thread.
 
The best Evo Stone supporter is probably Evo Stone Murkrow since it gets alot of useful moves to go along with Mischevious Heart and with Evo Stone also gets Decent defenses. For sweepers, the main two that might be competitvely viable are Scyther and Sneasel.
 
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