Dusclops has been a HUGE pain with this item, as it can leave its hp low, turning pain split into a really good move. I haven't seen many pory 2, but I haven't had problems with them. Chansey is really the best user (it is so defensive), and as there are almost no set up shandera with substitute, you can just toxic them and ride out the storm.
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Bold 252/252 in HP/Defense hits 324 HP, 360 Defense, and 309 Special Defense. That's 10.2% more HP than Dusknoir in exchange for 12.5% less Defense, and the Special Defense is basically the same (1% higher for Misdreavus). Dusknoir has the benefit of Leftovers and Pressure to run certain attacks dry; Misdreavus has the benefit of immunity to Earthquake and decent middling Speed to use Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, or Calm Mind against certain slow things more successfully.
Of course, Dusknoir-level defenses--especially ones without Leftovers--don't mean as much as they used to considering that the defensive side now has Dusclops, Porygon2, and Chansey while the offensive side has stuff like +2/+2 Growth and +3 Tail Glow, but I still wouldn't call them meh by any means.
And, I removed the comments I had about Wynaut. Because, I checked the rest of the thread, just in case, and found that it'd been discussed. And, that my two cents was worthless compared to better pennies already used to address this.
You're right. And, that's reasonable. My comment is largely based on the fact that hold items DO come with their fair share of problems. Now, I'll admit, since you're using it as a wall, a Physical / Mixed Sweeper (I doubt a Special Sweeper would run it anyway) is HIGHLY unlikely to run Knock Off, and is even less likely to run Trick.
That said, in DPPt, the following Pokemon CAN use both. I doubt they would, but maybe they're some weird clever idea or something, I don't honestly know.
Now, that's DPPt.
In B&W, we have the following:
Okay, much smaller, but I don't have a list of tutorable moves (or know if moves are tutorable). Also, I don't recall either move being a TM, but I've been wrong before.
Now, what have I proved by this? That it IS possible for a Pokemon to Trick you, then use Knock Off? Yes. That I have too much time on my hands, and know how to use the internet? Yes. That I think being right is AWESOME? Yes. That you will ever encounter a situation where you need to worry about this? No. That you can't predict a Knock Off/Trick Pokemon? No, not even a little.
Maybe I proved nothing. But, maybe, just maybe, I proved that, even if you predict it right, that they can still get you, and solve the problem they might have of you holding their previously selected item. Who knows? Maybe this was worth the effort. Probably not. But, maybe.
PS: I toned down my color, though I'd rather have left it as normal red, I can understand your eyes hurting, and have adjusted accordingly. I hope others will extend me (and you) the same courtesy when it is mentioned, and that this color is more suitable for reading.
Why do they need to use both? Knock Off removes the item, Trick switches it for a worse one. The the two actually counteract each other. Loads of Pokemon learn either move.
Has anyone mentioned Phione yet? Your defenses would be 120 while all other stats would drop to 80, making you even more bulky than Manaphy in the rain. Imagine a bulky Impish Calm Mind Phione in the rain with Rest. That thing would NEVER die and with Manaphy currently let into OU I can feasibly see Phione being even more annoying. It can't learn Tail Glow but I don't think it needs it.
Phione isn't exactly a pre-evolution per say. Did anyone test the Pre-evo stone on Phione to confirm this?
I dont think this one has been added yet, but i was thinking even thought i haven´t tested this yet (just theorymoning) it seems like a good pokemon, here it goes;
Standard Gochimiru
Shadow Tag
Bold/Relaxed
Pre-Evolution Stone
240 Hp/156 Def/48 Spa/58 Spd/8 spe
Psycho shock/ Psychic
Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fighting
Calm Mind
Rest/Trick Room
This Evs generates 321 HP/88 Atk/236 Def/198 Spa/220 Spd/148 spe and with the stone she gets 354 Def/330 Spd (if im not mistaken since its one stage) meaning its almost as bulky as skarmory or better considering the special side. The HP is odd to be able to take one less point from entry hazard damages, such stealth rock, spikes or even wether, which may prove to be useful sometimes for survival. The 8 spe evs ensures you can outrun other base 55 spe pokemon like cacturne, Machamp, Ampharos and relicanth with 4 spe EVs, or no spe EVs with a neutral nature.
Psycho Shock its her main stab attack and also handles blissey, but if blissey its not a problem you can run psychic, while thunderbolt gives her good type coverage and hits other psychics as Slowbro aswell. If steels, rock or dark type will be a problem for your team you can run hidden power fighting giving it 31 hp/03 atk and the rest should be 30 for hp power 70, the 03 Atk IV its in case you get confused to lessen the damage from it. In the last slot is rest, since its the only form of recovery she has and its useful on stall wars and to get rid of the annoying statuses. In case you want to run trick room over rest consider to change the nature to Relaxed or Quiet for a more ofensive one, and its spe IV should be 0 or 02 to maintain hidden power fighting 70.
The purpose of this pokemon is to come in on something which you consider is not a threat for Gochimiru (or that doesnt have U-turn, Volt Change, Baton Pass, Roar, Whirlwind or Shadow Tag) and set up on your opponents face thanks to your shadow tag, after one calm mind she will generate 297 Spa & 495 spd and after two should be doubled to 396 Spa & 660 spd (with the stone of course) meaning its quite a tank but again since shadow tag its there you can set up all 6 without any problems :S . Her only downfall is speed and because of it thunder wave support is needed, aswell as wish and leech seed support since if you seeded the target and then switch her in you will have an easier time stalling or setting up.
This pokemon sure looks and is better than its evolution thanks to the Pre-Evolution Stone.
Standard Gochimiru
Shadow Tag
Bold/Relaxed
Pre-Evolution Stone
240 Hp/156 Def/48 Spa/58 Spd/8 spe
Psycho shock/ Psychic
Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fighting
Calm Mind
Rest/Trick Room
This Evs generates 321 HP/88 Atk/236 Def/198 Spa/220 Spd/148 spe and with the stone she gets 354 Def/330 Spd (if im not mistaken since its one stage) meaning its almost as bulky as skarmory or better considering the special side. The HP is odd to be able to take one less point from entry hazard damages, such stealth rock, spikes or even wether, which may prove to be useful sometimes for survival. The 8 spe evs ensures you can outrun other base 55 spe pokemon like cacturne, Machamp, Ampharos and relicanth with 4 spe EVs, or no spe EVs with a neutral nature.
Psycho Shock its her main stab attack and also handles blissey, but if blissey its not a problem you can run psychic, while thunderbolt gives her good type coverage and hits other psychics as Slowbro aswell. If steels, rock or dark type will be a problem for your team you can run hidden power fighting giving it 31 hp/03 atk and the rest should be 30 for hp power 70, the 03 Atk IV its in case you get confused to lessen the damage from it. In the last slot is rest, since its the only form of recovery she has and its useful on stall wars and to get rid of the annoying statuses. In case you want to run trick room over rest consider to change the nature to Relaxed or Quiet for a more ofensive one, and its spe IV should be 0 or 02 to maintain hidden power fighting 70.
The purpose of this pokemon is to come in on something which you consider is not a threat for Gochimiru (or that doesnt have U-turn, Volt Change, Baton Pass, Roar, Whirlwind or Shadow Tag) and set up on your opponents face thanks to your shadow tag, after one calm mind she will generate 297 Spa & 495 spd and after two should be doubled to 396 Spa & 660 spd (with the stone of course) meaning its quite a tank but again since shadow tag its there you can set up all 6 without any problems :S . Her only downfall is speed and because of it thunder wave support is needed, aswell as wish and leech seed support since if you seeded the target and then switch her in you will have an easier time stalling or setting up.
This pokemon sure looks and is better than its evolution thanks to the Pre-Evolution Stone.
Ubers Choice Scarf Gengar might find a use for it. You pick up an item they prefer (hopefully not also a Choice Scarf, or another Choice item), but realize you'd rather that guy not have a Choice Scarf. You could, in theory, use Knock Off. Of course, that's only if they pick a move you'd not want them to pick. Very situational.
I'll admit, it's highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely it would happen. Though, Banette with Frisk just might decide it's worth it. Or not. Depends. But, if you're holding an item that you don't want them to have, but still want their item, it could be useful. I'm not saying you HAVE to worry about it. I'm saying it's possible. That's all. @_@
Well, I've done some calculations, and yours appear to be well within the realm of reason (nothing's an order of magnitude off, basically). I can identify one major problem with this: Shadow Tag won't be legal for quite a while. I'm guessing some way to deal with this will be invented by then, such as an extremely Specially Defensive Tyranitar or any variety of Spiritomb, preferably with Pursuit.
Yeah, well just have to wait and see if it won´t have any problem once its released to pull this off. I updated the set because i tested her a lil and works very well, but now im not sure its good enough to be an Uber, but im sure its quite abusive if played correctly, even with all that still struggles sometimes against really strong physical attackers, or even highly strong special attackers if you didnt setup al least one calm mind, so in other words it should always be used against weaker pokemon and they will be usually defensive pokemon.
Still need to do the damage calculations for the updated set.
It's also pretty slow, so revenge killing might get easier. The typing certainly doesn't help, as the main reason things like Skarmory are so bulky is that they have incredible typings that overshadow their shortcomings (any physical SE attacks on Skarmory have stupidly low base power). A strong SE attack should inflict serious damage on it. I really hope that something other than CB Tyranitar can OHKO it, though. Nothing's immediately coming to mind, but hope springs eternal.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but is Togetic any good with it? its got 55/85/105 defenses (not too shabby), a slightly above average 80 SpA, and a great support movepool (Yawn, Roost, T-wave, Dual Screens, Encore). Sadly, Wish uses the user's HP, and a 55 base hp stat isn't passing much.
Wow, I never thought of that before! This generation is bringing us so many completely different metagames! :o Although, they'll probably all end up more similar once everybody bans things to more closely resemble the metagames they're used to...
I thought this would be of some relevance, so I'm going to post it here:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82612
Just take the score from your desired LC Pokemon, and add 4.25 to both stats. That'll give you an idea of its overall bulk.
I might make some charts later excluding all evolved and otherwise illegal Pokemon specifically for Little Cup.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82612
Just take the score from your desired LC Pokemon, and add 4.25 to both stats. That'll give you an idea of its overall bulk.
I might make some charts later excluding all evolved and otherwise illegal Pokemon specifically for Little Cup.
I have used him (even offensively with parahax) and its only good for playing in the lower tiers and great in what it used to be NU, and that is because of his bad defensive typing. Anyway as a supporter it works better.
.........It would still suck.
Well anyway is it just me or is Gligar not getting enough love?Its AMAZING with a Pre evo stone and it also has a pretty handy ability stopping it from getting Toxic Stalled to death.Yah not as good as Gliscors ability but its hell lot bulkier...Most Gliscor sets nowadays are mainly super deffensive ones trying to beat the new threats like the Fighters/Dory anyway.
Well anyway is it just me or is Gligar not getting enough love?Its AMAZING with a Pre evo stone and it also has a pretty handy ability stopping it from getting Toxic Stalled to death.Yah not as good as Gliscors ability but its hell lot bulkier...Most Gliscor sets nowadays are mainly super deffensive ones trying to beat the new threats like the Fighters/Dory anyway.
I decided that today I'd look at a few of the pre-evolutions that haven't been mentioned much, since its mostly just been Dusclops, Porygon2, and Chansey. They're all awesome, but there are some pre-evos that look like they're being grossly underrated. Note that I haven't actually tested these ones since I don't have as much time on my hands, although I probably will try them in the future. If you have tested them, then please give me your feedback on them.
Let's look at the list:
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Togetic
Togetic @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Serene Grace
- Baton Pass
- Nasty Plot
- Wish / Roost
- Magic Coat
Evolution Stone Togetic is the bulkiest PlotPasser in the game, and with PlotPassers already being pretty rare, it's a very unique niche. His only real competition is Celebi, although Togetic has much better overall defenses, in addition to a few other perks. These EVs give Togetic the Special bulk of a 252 HP/252 SpD Calm Togekiss, while being 42% more physically bulky than the same Togekiss. 252 HP/252 Def Bold Celebi can take physical hits 10% better, but this Togetic takes Special hits 42% better than that same Celebi, which is a much bigger difference. Togekiss is also notable for being one of the few Evolution Stone users with recovery.
Magic Coat allows Togetic to bounce back Taunts as well as any status and phazing. Because Togetic doesn't have Taunt, and would be too slow to use it effectively even if he did, Magic Coat is very handy. Note that you cannot use Magic Coat and Super Luck together, which is why I only put Serene Grace as an option.
Wish and Roost are good for giving recovery. The choice is really up to you for which one you choose. Although Wish will only be healing 157 HP to whatever Togetic passes to, it's still good enough for most things that would want a Nasty Plot. Also, if for instance, you want to pass a Nasty Plot or two to something like Yanmega, which takes 50% from Stealth Rock, Wish will heal him perfectly. While Togetic's horrible 40 base Speed may seem like a Curse, it's actually a blessing in disguise, because if Togetic used Wish and then Baton Pass, the recipient will be healed without taking any damage from an attack because Togetic already took the attack for them due to his slow Speed.
I saw that people were looking for a niche for Evolution Stone Togetic, and being the bulkiest overall PlotPasser in the game is quite a good one.
--
Machoke
Machoke @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
No Guard
- Bulk Up
- DynamicPunch
- Payback
- Light Screen / Encore
While this may seem inferior to Roopushin, Machoke does have a few perks over his Fighting rival. If both Roopushin and Machoke have this same spread, although Roopushin has much more Attack and about the same physical bulk, Machoke has 26% more special bulk. This allows Machoke to even survive Specs Alakazam Psychics, which is quite amazing.
Machoke also has access to Encore and Light Screen, both of which Roopushin doesn't have. With Encore, it means that he won't be totally screwed if an opposing Roopushin comes in and starts Bulking Up on him, because he'll get Encored, and you can switch to something that can kill him. With Light Screen, Machoke can set up in the face of pretty much any special attacker in the game, since even Modest Specs Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost won't be a guaranteed OHKO under Light Screen with that much Special Defense, regardless of the super-effective damage.
Of course, if you're running Light Screen, you can run more physical Defense or put some EVs in Attack. Seriously though, I'd rather make him different from Roopushin, since there aren't many Bulk Uppers that can take the Special abuse that this guy can take under a Light Screen.
The only big problem I see is that while 100 base Attack isn't bad, he's going to need a lot of Bulk Ups to do serious damage. But Zuruzukin manages with 90 base Attack just fine, so I think Machoke can do this just fine too.
If you don't think that Roopushin and Machoke are different enough from each other to consider using one over the other...why not run both on the same team? It's enough trouble trying to get rid of Roopushin. Imagine how annoyed your opponent would be when they have to face this guy after they just got rid of Roopushin. xD
--
Shelgon
Shelgon @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Rock Head
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
Now first off, I put Rock Head as the ability instead of Dustproof because Sleep Talk and Outrage are illegal with Dustproof.
Shelgon is really bulky with the Evolution Stone on, reaching 334/355/327 defensive stats with this spread. With this spread, Shelgon can actually put his nice pure-Dragon typing to use, and use it to set up like RestTalk Kingdra did back in Gen 4. Even stuff like max Special Attack Starmie isn't 2HKOing Shelgon with Ice Beam, which is pretty good, considering that it would've destroyed him before.
Basically the idea of the set is to use Shelgon's bulk to stockpile a shitload of Dragon Dances with Rest and Sleep Talk. Also, with Sleep Talk, you can fire off Outrages that won't lock you into the move, which is really handy if you need to switch.
The big problem I see with this set though is that Shelgon is still really slow even after a few Dragon Dances. But he seems really good if you have some Toxic Spikes support handy, because many things are going to struggle to kill him with his defenses and RestTalk, so you can get more actual damage done with Toxic Spikes up.
--
Rhydon
Rhydon @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Rock Head
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / Megahorn
Rhydon is a strange pre-evolution, because regardless of his stats, his massive amounts of weaknesses make it hard for him to take a walling/tanking role. So instead, I decided to give him a sweeping role. Basically, the idea is to use Rhydon's obscene bulk to pull off a Rock Polish sweep, with possible Swords Dances in between.
To give you an idea of how bulky this thing is, this guy is taking physical hits 4% BETTER than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Deoxys-D with no investment whatsoever. Under Sandstorm, which you ideally want to use this under, he's taking special hits 5% better than 252 HP Jirachi. Without Sandstorm, he's 2% Specially bulkier than 0/0 Salamence, which still isn't bad. Garchomp's Choice Band Outrage isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO, Scizor's CB Bullet Punch is barely a 2HKO, and without the Choice Band, it's not even guaranteed. Roopushin's max Attack Mach Punch can't even break 30%. CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet will never OHKO either. Basically, statwise, Rhydon is the bulkiest sweeper in the game. If it weren't for the Ground/Rock typing, this thing would be an absolute monster defensively.
However, Ground/Rock is a great offensive typing, so that's what this set takes advantage of. Rock Polish with max Speed and Jolly puts him just ahead of max Speed Skymin, which is a good target to beat since he can destroy Rhydon easily otherwise. Swords Dance is a good option on this set as well, since Rhydon is bulky enough to get more than one boost, and without Life Orb and no Adamant nature, you might find his damage output a bit low for a sweeper. Megahorn is an option too though if you want to hit Psychic and Grass-types for SE damage, which is good against stuff like Jaroda and Celebi. I personally think Swords Dance is a better option though, since this lets it destroy walls as well.
If you think it's a good idea, you can also provide him with Screen support, so that he can basically set up on any attack in the game, since absolutely nothing, is killing him if he has screen support combined with those defenses.
--
These are the only ones I can think of right now, and I put what I think are the best sets for them, but once again, I haven't actually tested all of these, but I'll most likely test them in the future. But honestly, this item is awesome. I've had so much fun ruining teams with Chansey, since people don't expect her to be so bulky, especially on the physical side. They get a nice rude awakening though, often ending with a rude message towards me. xD
Let's look at the list:
--
Togetic
Togetic @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Serene Grace
- Baton Pass
- Nasty Plot
- Wish / Roost
- Magic Coat
Evolution Stone Togetic is the bulkiest PlotPasser in the game, and with PlotPassers already being pretty rare, it's a very unique niche. His only real competition is Celebi, although Togetic has much better overall defenses, in addition to a few other perks. These EVs give Togetic the Special bulk of a 252 HP/252 SpD Calm Togekiss, while being 42% more physically bulky than the same Togekiss. 252 HP/252 Def Bold Celebi can take physical hits 10% better, but this Togetic takes Special hits 42% better than that same Celebi, which is a much bigger difference. Togekiss is also notable for being one of the few Evolution Stone users with recovery.
Magic Coat allows Togetic to bounce back Taunts as well as any status and phazing. Because Togetic doesn't have Taunt, and would be too slow to use it effectively even if he did, Magic Coat is very handy. Note that you cannot use Magic Coat and Super Luck together, which is why I only put Serene Grace as an option.
Wish and Roost are good for giving recovery. The choice is really up to you for which one you choose. Although Wish will only be healing 157 HP to whatever Togetic passes to, it's still good enough for most things that would want a Nasty Plot. Also, if for instance, you want to pass a Nasty Plot or two to something like Yanmega, which takes 50% from Stealth Rock, Wish will heal him perfectly. While Togetic's horrible 40 base Speed may seem like a Curse, it's actually a blessing in disguise, because if Togetic used Wish and then Baton Pass, the recipient will be healed without taking any damage from an attack because Togetic already took the attack for them due to his slow Speed.
I saw that people were looking for a niche for Evolution Stone Togetic, and being the bulkiest overall PlotPasser in the game is quite a good one.
--
Machoke
Machoke @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
No Guard
- Bulk Up
- DynamicPunch
- Payback
- Light Screen / Encore
While this may seem inferior to Roopushin, Machoke does have a few perks over his Fighting rival. If both Roopushin and Machoke have this same spread, although Roopushin has much more Attack and about the same physical bulk, Machoke has 26% more special bulk. This allows Machoke to even survive Specs Alakazam Psychics, which is quite amazing.
Machoke also has access to Encore and Light Screen, both of which Roopushin doesn't have. With Encore, it means that he won't be totally screwed if an opposing Roopushin comes in and starts Bulking Up on him, because he'll get Encored, and you can switch to something that can kill him. With Light Screen, Machoke can set up in the face of pretty much any special attacker in the game, since even Modest Specs Deoxys-A's Psycho Boost won't be a guaranteed OHKO under Light Screen with that much Special Defense, regardless of the super-effective damage.
Of course, if you're running Light Screen, you can run more physical Defense or put some EVs in Attack. Seriously though, I'd rather make him different from Roopushin, since there aren't many Bulk Uppers that can take the Special abuse that this guy can take under a Light Screen.
The only big problem I see is that while 100 base Attack isn't bad, he's going to need a lot of Bulk Ups to do serious damage. But Zuruzukin manages with 90 base Attack just fine, so I think Machoke can do this just fine too.
If you don't think that Roopushin and Machoke are different enough from each other to consider using one over the other...why not run both on the same team? It's enough trouble trying to get rid of Roopushin. Imagine how annoyed your opponent would be when they have to face this guy after they just got rid of Roopushin. xD
--
Shelgon
Shelgon @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
Rock Head
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
Now first off, I put Rock Head as the ability instead of Dustproof because Sleep Talk and Outrage are illegal with Dustproof.
Shelgon is really bulky with the Evolution Stone on, reaching 334/355/327 defensive stats with this spread. With this spread, Shelgon can actually put his nice pure-Dragon typing to use, and use it to set up like RestTalk Kingdra did back in Gen 4. Even stuff like max Special Attack Starmie isn't 2HKOing Shelgon with Ice Beam, which is pretty good, considering that it would've destroyed him before.
Basically the idea of the set is to use Shelgon's bulk to stockpile a shitload of Dragon Dances with Rest and Sleep Talk. Also, with Sleep Talk, you can fire off Outrages that won't lock you into the move, which is really handy if you need to switch.
The big problem I see with this set though is that Shelgon is still really slow even after a few Dragon Dances. But he seems really good if you have some Toxic Spikes support handy, because many things are going to struggle to kill him with his defenses and RestTalk, so you can get more actual damage done with Toxic Spikes up.
--
Rhydon
Rhydon @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Rock Head
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance / Megahorn
Rhydon is a strange pre-evolution, because regardless of his stats, his massive amounts of weaknesses make it hard for him to take a walling/tanking role. So instead, I decided to give him a sweeping role. Basically, the idea is to use Rhydon's obscene bulk to pull off a Rock Polish sweep, with possible Swords Dances in between.
To give you an idea of how bulky this thing is, this guy is taking physical hits 4% BETTER than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Deoxys-D with no investment whatsoever. Under Sandstorm, which you ideally want to use this under, he's taking special hits 5% better than 252 HP Jirachi. Without Sandstorm, he's 2% Specially bulkier than 0/0 Salamence, which still isn't bad. Garchomp's Choice Band Outrage isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO, Scizor's CB Bullet Punch is barely a 2HKO, and without the Choice Band, it's not even guaranteed. Roopushin's max Attack Mach Punch can't even break 30%. CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet will never OHKO either. Basically, statwise, Rhydon is the bulkiest sweeper in the game. If it weren't for the Ground/Rock typing, this thing would be an absolute monster defensively.
However, Ground/Rock is a great offensive typing, so that's what this set takes advantage of. Rock Polish with max Speed and Jolly puts him just ahead of max Speed Skymin, which is a good target to beat since he can destroy Rhydon easily otherwise. Swords Dance is a good option on this set as well, since Rhydon is bulky enough to get more than one boost, and without Life Orb and no Adamant nature, you might find his damage output a bit low for a sweeper. Megahorn is an option too though if you want to hit Psychic and Grass-types for SE damage, which is good against stuff like Jaroda and Celebi. I personally think Swords Dance is a better option though, since this lets it destroy walls as well.
If you think it's a good idea, you can also provide him with Screen support, so that he can basically set up on any attack in the game, since absolutely nothing, is killing him if he has screen support combined with those defenses.
--
These are the only ones I can think of right now, and I put what I think are the best sets for them, but once again, I haven't actually tested all of these, but I'll most likely test them in the future. But honestly, this item is awesome. I've had so much fun ruining teams with Chansey, since people don't expect her to be so bulky, especially on the physical side. They get a nice rude awakening though, often ending with a rude message towards me. xD
Machoke
Machoke @Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
Guts
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Payback
-Encore/Light Screen
*rips*
Would it be a good idea to just use No Guard Dynamicpunch? Roobushin can't do that, after all, and trolly confuse hax backed by bulk (and Encore) sounds good.
@Bologo's big post
Togetic seems to be fine; dunno if it will work in practice though.
Machoke is outclassed by dotekkotsu (roob's prevo), who boasts sliiiightly lower SpD but higher HP, defense, and attack, which is worth it IMO if you're not using dynamicpunch.
Shelgon and rhydon are good on paper but not in practice - both have nice attack stats and all but skarm can use both as spikes setup fodder and then just ww them away if they get a few too many boosts.
Togetic seems to be fine; dunno if it will work in practice though.
Machoke is outclassed by dotekkotsu (roob's prevo), who boasts sliiiightly lower SpD but higher HP, defense, and attack, which is worth it IMO if you're not using dynamicpunch.
Shelgon and rhydon are good on paper but not in practice - both have nice attack stats and all but skarm can use both as spikes setup fodder and then just ww them away if they get a few too many boosts.
Just going to say this right now, I LOVE Chansey with this thing. Kinda sucks cause she can't wall Gengar, but with that kind of defenses and Toxic/Seismic Toss, Chansey is incredible. The lack of lefties isn't that big of a deal we have Softboiled. Only downside is that Chansey's more vulnerable to constant sandstorm damage, and Status Damage, though she does have Aromatherapy.