League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
So you designed a character that makes virtually all of the ranged carries in the game irrelevant... cool
If you're gonna criticize, state your reasons instead of being facetiously dismissive. Since a portion of the kit involves losing your range, this champ is already fundamentally worse at that than any of them. This champion excels at dueling which last I checked didn't make Urgot more relevant than any other ranged carry.
 
I'm personally weary of any skill that passively gives a ranged champion defensive stats. What makes your champion's defensive buff different from the one that made the last ranged tanky DPS not work?
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Well for starters Graves passive didn't break him by itself, even the old one alone is hardly an OP skill but everything about Graves was great and I agree that reducing the value was a good place to hit him. Having said that, Graves armor is also a passive (and I mean put no points into passive) and assuming that people max E it second they'll be reaching the same armor at level 13 rather than 11.
 
I really really want to learn Master Yi now, mainly because of his backdooring skills. I had a game where my team just sat defending our towers all game. We lost because no one was pushing, even when we had an ace.

Is jungle Yi worth learning?
 
his ganks are really only powerful in solo queue where people have no idea how to beat him

he has no CC and although he has high damage, he gets shut down very easily in organized play. there was one tournament a while ago where i think atlanta played yi and got insanely fed through the entire game - they ran yi and karthus and if you focused one, the other would kill you. think colby and chaox shoutcasted it, it's definitely on youtube. still, their team lost because they just weren't winning team-fights late game.

he's really scary though. super fast jungler and if you charge your double strike up before a gank, you can spike someone's health down insanely fast. the problem is that he doesn't have the burst to be an AD assassin but he doesn't have the survivability to be a melee DPS. you kinda just have to run in with your dick in your hands and pray that you don't get focused or CC'd or that people can kite you.
 
If you're gonna criticize, state your reasons instead of being facetiously dismissive. Since a portion of the kit involves losing your range, this champ is already fundamentally worse at that than any of them. This champion excels at dueling which last I checked didn't make Urgot more relevant than any other ranged carry.
Okay, how about the fact that he is a ranged carry that can transform into a tanky dps when the situation goes bad as an AD carry (read: where most AD carries would die). His range is as long or longer than almost all ranged AD carries, and his kit is full of useful spells (instead of having one "useless" skill like some champs have). He has damage, insane steroids, and multiple escapes. Sure, he doesn't have any hard CC, but Ashe is the only ranged carry who has a reliable hard CC (caitlyn's is very situational).
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Okay, how about the fact that he is a ranged carry that can transform into a tanky dps when the situation goes bad as an AD carry (read: where most AD carries would die). His range is as long or longer than almost all ranged AD carries, and his kit is full of useful spells (instead of having one "useless" skill like some champs have). He has damage, insane steroids, and multiple escapes. Sure, he doesn't have any hard CC, but Ashe is the only ranged carry who has a reliable hard CC (caitlyn's is very situational).
He doesn't transform into tanky dps, you have to build tanky dps in which case you are favoring the melee portion over the range. His range is standard, 550 is nothing special. Champs shouldn't have "useless" skills. He has one escape that doesn't move him at all, and his steroids are as good as they are because giving up his range would be a hindrance otherwise.
 
his ganks are really only powerful in solo queue where people have no idea how to beat him

he has no CC and although he has high damage, he gets shut down very easily in organized play. there was one tournament a while ago where i think atlanta played yi and got insanely fed through the entire game - they ran yi and karthus and if you focused one, the other would kill you. think colby and chaox shoutcasted it, it's definitely on youtube. still, their team lost because they just weren't winning team-fights late game.

he's really scary though. super fast jungler and if you charge your double strike up before a gank, you can spike someone's health down insanely fast. the problem is that he doesn't have the burst to be an AD assassin but he doesn't have the survivability to be a melee DPS. you kinda just have to run in with your dick in your hands and pray that you don't get focused or CC'd or that people can kite you.

Basically tough luck against any tank with a knockup/back or even a lone AP carry with CC like Ryze or Fiddle.
 


Lucky that I had a good game since I picked Soraka. Starting to learn which last hits I can take and which I can't. Could have probably had 60 more CS than I did since Sivir wasn't hitting that well. Amumu claimed he could have sworn he bought a RoA when I asked why he rushed Randuins and Sunfire. He was keeping both blue buffs to himself and still running out of mana. :\ Everyone on the team did pretty well though so it was an easy, if slow, win.
 

pookar

Banned deucer.
obviously he needed atmas to protect from all the physical damage he was taking from brand and katarina...
 


Lucky that I had a good game since I picked Soraka. Starting to learn which last hits I can take and which I can't. Could have probably had 60 more CS than I did since Sivir wasn't hitting that well. Amumu claimed he could have sworn he bought a RoA when I asked why he rushed Randuins and Sunfire. He was keeping both blue buffs to himself and still running out of mana. :\ Everyone on the team did pretty well though so it was an easy, if slow, win.
Rushing Sunfire on Amumu isn't a bad idea TBH. Rushing Randuins seems pointless though. Why not just let the Heart of Gold do it's thing while you build something useful on Amumu? Force of Nature, Frozen Heart, Warmogs, Thornmail, etc...

And if you're new to Amumu it's really easy to run out of mana. Q'ing to camps + keeping W on + using E every few seconds gets expensive very fast. You (should) learn very fast that you should only use E and rarely use W (when you're about to B, early game when you should have blue, etc).

And good job getting more gold than the person you're supporting. It's why I hate playing support in solo queue (just hit level 26) though. If you end up supporting someone with less skill than you, it just gets annoying. I honestly would have transitioned to AP Soraka mid game if I was in your position.

I had a game yesterday where the team was: Udyr with smite, Ahri, Gangplank, and Cait, so I decided to be a team player and pick Taric to help Cait dominate her laning phase even more. Turns out Udyr was the only competent player, as Cait went mid, Ahri went top, and I ended up supporting the GP against Sona Graves (what kind of team gets Sona Graves pre lvl 30 normal solo queue...). Needless to say we got dominated and I was reminded of why I hate playing support unless I'm duo queuing with a friend.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Unfortunately, transitioning from support to carry because your real carry sucks ass usually doens't work very well because they just start trolling you for intentionally taking their lasthits and not playing a proper support. ;[ Kind of lose-lose, which tends to be the case with bads in this game...

also support/GP is a horrible lane ~_~ Who knew GP wasn't a ranged carry?

obviously he needed atmas to protect from all the physical damage he was taking from brand and katarina...
What always kills me: Void Staff Brand

MR itemization on the enemy team: Three Mercs

PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT VOID STAFF IS A SITUATIONAL PURCHASE, JUST LIKE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT RUSHING BLOODRAZOR IS STUPID AND RUSHING LICH BANE IS LITERALLY WORSE THAN THROWING AWAY 2300 GOLD.
 
void staff is generally my go-to magic pen item

abyssal is fine but most decent players will have built up a good amount of magic resist by the time you're far enough along in your item build to start considering void staff
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
void staff is generally my go-to magic pen item

abyssal is fine but most decent players will have built up a good amount of magic resist by the time you're far enough along in your item build to start considering void staff
Reading comprehension is for nerds, apparently.


He said Void Staff is situational. If the only MR the opposing team has is merc treads, why are you building a Void Staff? There's no need for it. You'd be better getting an Abyssal Scepter, or hell another Rabadon's could mathematically be better at such minimal MR levels.

In reality, all items are situational. What kind of boots you get, the type of AP or AD items, what kind of build core you use... it all depends on the Champion, your team, and the opposing team.
 
Reading comprehension is for nerds, apparently.


He said Void Staff is situational. If the only MR the opposing team has is merc treads, why are you building a Void Staff? There's no need for it. You'd be better getting an Abyssal Scepter, or hell another Rabadon's could mathematically be better at such minimal MR levels.

In reality, all items are situational. What kind of boots you get, the type of AP or AD items, what kind of build core you use... it all depends on the Champion, your team, and the opposing team.
"situational" is subjective. it's like saying that building MR at all is situational because the enemy might not have enough relevant AP damage to merit it. it's possible that it's the case but more often than not a team will have at least one source of heavy AP damage.

likewise in most games, people will be building magic resist regardless of who you are and void staff will be better in that scenario. sure, you could argue that scepter is better in the cases where NOBODY on their team builds MR whatsoever but if that's the case, then "situational" is a label far better applied to this case and not the commonplace one - where people are intelligent enough to at least slightly itemize against heavy AP damage.

i'm not saying that all brand players should be rushing doran's into deathcap then STRAIGHT FOR A VOID STAFF. use your own judgment and build intermediate items if you need to.
 
Lol, er, why is everyone always being so snarky?

To put this to rest: Abyssal is 20 MR reduction, Void Staff is 40% MagPen. In order for them to yield the exact same results, the enemy needs 50 MR. If they have less, Abyssal is stronger. If they have more, Void Staff is stronger. Soooo if a ranged AD carry bought just Merc Treads, Void Staff is stronger than Abyssal, if the intent is to deal as much damage as possible. In addition, walking too far away from the enemy renders the Abyssal aura useless, so unless you know you're going to be up in the fight (like a Katarina, for example), Void is better. If you're a mage who unloads his spells and runs, like Brand, then Void Staff is more than fine.

So many other aspects come into play, of course, but Brand with a Void Staff is perfectly acceptable. I can crunch some numbers and see when a Deathcap is better than a Void Staff if you'd like, or maybe throw Sorc Shoes into the mix.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Abyssal's range isn't a problem, self-owned you'll always be in range of debuffed enemies short of artillery-type skills. They're not really the same thing, though. Abyssal usually isn't for the aura alone but because it's also an MR item. It benefits the entire team. It's Reduction and not Penetration, so it can reduce low-MR enemies into negative MR (like if you're Amumu or Soraka and shred significant MR on your own). It also costs 355g more than a Void Staff. not-really-the-same-thing

Just a few guys with Mercs isn't really enough to make Void Staff a worthwhile purchase regardless. Raw damage isn't all that matters. Abyssal, as stated, will provide a similar benefit while providing a bunch of MR. Or you just build a different endgame item that provides more raw AP and comes with other benefits: RoA tons of Health, Zhonya's good Armor and awesome Active, WotA Spell Vamp aura, DFG cooldown reduction and tank-melting Active. Hell, that Brand doesn't even have a Deathcap yet so I'm pretty sure Void Staff isn't an optimal purchase here. -_-
 
For Amumu and Soraka, I definitely agree with you, which is why I was making a comparison based on the item's reduction alone. Some champs will just do better with Abyssal because it suits them (my good friend Fiddlesticks comes to mind). However, keep in mind that the aura is useful if you have others who deal magic damage on your team, so in Wikey's match, it would've been useful. However, Katarina, Amumu, and Soraka still make better use of it than Brand, because the first two will almost always be close enough for the aura to matter.

The aura is also easy to walk out of. It's 1000 range, so someome at the edge of Brand's W won't get the debuff. In addition, his ultimate bounces, meaning it can easily bounce out of range of the aura, unless you run after it like a madman. In addition, you have to examine whether or not MR is useful to you at that moment. In Wikey's match, Lux was the only real problem, so the MR wouldn't have been so useful. In addition, the enemy team had 4 melee champs, whose MR goes up naturally. Then consider the probable MR runes, and Shyvana's ultimate's passive, and the 40% MagPen becomes way more useful.

Now, on a burst mage, raw damage is extremely important. The reason for this is that, during a team fight, the burst mage uses all their spells, then runs out. Brand wants to use his spells together to make the most out of their extra effects, then gtfo. Burst mages typically build one or two survivability items (Rylai's and/or RoA) because they still provide good amounts of AP, and help survive the onslaught of the enemy team. I would caution against building a RoA late game, as you aren't getting all of the bang for your buck. Zhonya's, while an excellent item, is in fact situational, being a greater priority if you find yourself dying a lot (or if you have an AoE ult that isn't hard channelled). WotA is nice, and I believe Brand's passive works with spell vamp too, so if Kat or Soraka didn't pick it up, he definitely should have. DFG is also situational; if they happen to have high health champs, and you have single target burst, then it's useful (think Veigar). Or if you happen to be Swain, lol.

You're definitely right though, he should've had a Deathcap first, so I don't know what he was thinking. Still though, a Void Staff is generally one of the stronger purchases the average AP caster can purchase, due to its cost efficiency scaling with the MR present on the enemy team. Individual casters have to be considered case by case though, because kits and circumstances change a lot.
 
I don't think MrE is arguing that void staff isn't a really good item for most AP casters, I think he's saying that there is no reason to pick up void staff at the levels of MR the opposing team had at the time, ESPECIALLY without dcap first. Void Staff is a core late game item on a lot of casters because good players will eventually start stacking MR; if the opponent never gets said MR though, it's a waste. Void staff is a reaction to the increasing levels of MR, and if the enemy never gets it, like the case with Brand here, you should get other items.
 
Jax' Counter Strike remastered has been announced for the upcoming patch. Now when it is casted Jax will dodge all incoming attacks for a duration then stun/deal damage at the end of the duration to enemies in an AOE surrounding him. No numbers have been given yet.
 

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