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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

I am truly genius

Ashe Rework Bam

Just switch her passives.

Gold per kill passive would help her keep up with other carries, but is not worth leveling. Critical passive is flawed, but if you put a passive critical buff on her Hawkshot it becomes a good late game steroid. Then make gold per kill her regular passive and there you go. Viable Ashe.
 
Both are hard to theorycraft, there is no real flat critical strike steroid. Tryndamere comes closest by maxing out at 35% depending on his Fury. In addition to the active, Hawkshot could max out somewhere between 20 and 30%. You could have the gold per kill be scaling, but doing some math and comparing it to TF's passive I think 4-5 is reasonable. Numbers can always be changed so neither estimate effects the viability of the concept.
 
TF gives 2 gold per kill for the whole team, so I figure something along the lines of 4/5/6 or 3/4/5/6/7 or something, depending on level. It would definitely be very overpowered for more than that, and probably borderline like that.

For crit chance, it definitely can't be too much... 20% for max level is probably plenty. The two combined would probably make Ashe too overpowered though; with only her core Doran's / Infinity Edge / Phantom Dancer, she'd be at 75% crit chance, 90 bonus damage, and 1.393 attack speed at level 18. That's a massive 556 DPS... without runes, masteries, or berserker's greaves.
 
Ashe's passive on her hawk and her passive are both basically useless. There's no doubt that they need change, but just swapping them would be a little excessive unless they gave small bonuses.

If they did do that, 2-3 gold would not be comparable to TF's 2 gold for the entire team, so it would have to be more. As far as I know, there's no champion that gives a passive crit increase, so there's no precedent for how much they would increase it.
 
If you thought getting luckfucked by the RNG when it was 4% crit from the mastery pages was bad, just imagine getting luckfucked by an Ashe down bot who levels hawkshot first and starts the game with 10% crit from this new passive.
 
As far as I know, there's no champion that gives a passive crit increase, so there's no precedent for how much they would increase it.
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There isn't, and admittedly I'd rather see Hawkshot do something more interesting but without getting complex switching the passives to some degree would be beneficial for the character. Her Focus as is just wouldn't work at all on Hawkshot either. The Crit bonus may not need to be very high at all really, I'm not trying to change the fact that Hawkshot is maxed last it's just that Focus is crap and I'm sad to see that gold bonus really go to waste as is. So you could have a smaller crit bonus on Hawkshot, and a decent gold passive (because 2 gold per kill does nothing for TF, let alone his team).

If you thought getting luckfucked by the RNG when it was 4% crit from the mastery pages was bad, just imagine getting luckfucked by an Ashe down bot who levels hawkshot first and starts the game with 10% crit from this new passive.
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Anyone can start the game with 8% Crit, but good players don't. Why trade an X% crit for one of the easiest to hit harassment abilities? Some people might get Hawkshot at level 2 then, but even then you are getting that instead of Frost Shot, which is what little escape she has.

I mean most people seriously suggest that Focus shouldn't be lost on minions and you are worried about a chance to crit? No one will ever let me forget that this is a Pokemon forum...
 
vonFiedler said:
Anyone can start the game with 8% Crit, but good players don't. Why trade an X% crit for one of the easiest to hit harassment abilities? Some people might get Hawkshot at level 2 then, but even then you are getting that instead of Frost Shot, which is what little escape she has.

I mean most people seriously suggest that Focus shouldn't be lost on minions and you are worried about a chance to crit? No one will ever let me forget that this is a Pokemon forum...
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The issue is that even the small presence of a chance to crit is big. It might not happen every game, or even in most games, but an early crit hurts so much it kind of auto wins the lane. People were telling me yesterday that they're considering running a single crit red now because they won't miss the tiny amount of arpen / ad / whatever and if that tiny crit chance DOES proc early it's such a massive lane advantage. It's not that it's really overpowered, it's that it's really uncompetitive.

EDIT: I don't doubt that volley is better than hawkshot at 1, I was talking about getting it at 2. I think it's viable to delay frost shot to 3. Still, you make a good point.
 
You missed the whole point. At Level 1 a crit from Ashe does 98 damage. A Volley does 89 damage. Only one of these is a skill shot with literally twice the range of her aa, and a cone that makes missing with it very questionable. I don't care if Hawkshot did give 10% at start, and that would be high anyway, Volley is better.

When you are talking about the Crit engine in LoL, you're talking about such large numbers that it very quickly stops being luck and starts being dps. With the crit mastery gone there really should be no complaints anymore. Overreacting to any mention of Crit doesn't change that Critical Strike is a fundamental part of the game system, especially for carries (which Ashe is).
 
Don't be cute. Dodge removal changed the game so minutely you could be forgiven for not even realizing it. Anyone who used Dodge runes before, and I did, uses Armor runes now and it doesn't feel different. Crit is a part of DPS almost as vital as AD and AS. It is also a major part of many items, where Dodge was only part of Ninja Tabi (which is also virtually unchanged). Crit removal would be a major undertaking that would cause all carry items to be rebalanced at least.

Dodge as a luck mechanic was always ten times worse than Crit. Unlike Crit, Dodge was a small numbers mechanic from early to late game. I can count a few times where lucky dodge chains screwed me (or saved me) by a margin of 1 AA during the late game. Crit doesn't remain a small mechanic, players itemize so that it become consistent.
 
#tf2

also my champs

GnhWD.jpg


i think i own enough
 
doomvendingmachine said:
The issue is that even the small presence of a chance to crit is big. It might not happen every game, or even in most games, but an early crit hurts so much it kind of auto wins the lane. People were telling me yesterday that they're considering running a single crit red now because they won't miss the tiny amount of arpen / ad / whatever and if that tiny crit chance DOES proc early it's such a massive lane advantage. It's not that it's really overpowered, it's that it's really uncompetitive.
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hahaha anyone remember when voyboy ran full crit runes on GP top and would just spam "4% crit OP" in chat
 
I won't be cheesing my way to 1-in-100 victories with crit runes. The thing with masteries is that you were going to be getting the crit anyway. Runes require you to give up something else (superior Armor Pen or AD) just like if you chose to buy Brawler's Gloves as a starting item. Secondly, I have better things to do with my IP. ;[

vonFiedler said:
Don't be cute. Dodge removal changed the game so minutely you could be forgiven for not even realizing it. Anyone who used Dodge runes before, and I did, uses Armor runes now and it doesn't feel different. Crit is a part of DPS almost as vital as AD and AS. It is also a major part of many items, where Dodge was only part of Ninja Tabi (which is also virtually unchanged). Crit removal would be a major undertaking that would cause all carry items to be rebalanced at least.

Dodge as a luck mechanic was always ten times worse than Crit. blah blah blah
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Crit is only vital because Riot made it vital. Statistically it's no different than Dodge ever was and could be removed with no real consequence by increasing AD and AS values elsewhere. Dodge could be just as prevalent, and maybe people wouldn't bitch about "luck" so much if it was more available, they just didn't! And to say lucky dodging is far worse than crits ever were, well there's a reason we no longer have a 4% crit mastery.

If anything, crits are worse because Riot doesn't use a completely random system for them like they do other "random" chances.
 
Mr.E said:
Crit is only vital because Riot made it vital.
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And dodge was only not vital because Riot did not make it vital.

Statistically it's no different than Dodge ever was
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Except that they do entirely different things and had wildly different availability. I mean statistically 1% is 1% so Crit = Life Steal.

and could be removed with no real consequence by increasing AD and AS values elsewhere.
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You put in the work changing every item, a ton of champions, and testing it all. Then since all AD items give more AD, change the AD ratios on all champions. And do it perfectly if you want no real consequences.

Dodge could be just as prevalent, and maybe people wouldn't bitch about "luck" so much if it was more available, they just didn't!
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Then people would bitch that some characters consistently can't be auto attacked, and they would have good reason. Dodge at high numbers would be broken, Crit at high numbers is just extra dps and the game is balanced around that.

And to say lucky dodging is far worse than crits ever were, well there's a reason we no longer have a 4% crit mastery.
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Because with no free early game crit, we move past the stage in the game where crits had a luck factor without incident. Dodge was a luck factor from early to end game.

If anything, crits are worse because Riot doesn't use a completely random system for them like they do other "random" chances.
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Actually I don't know if you specifically ever expressed this sentiment, but the gist of the debate is that any random chance is not competitive. So why is the fact that they reworked it to not truly be random worse?
 
You're all complaining about 4% crit chance making games "auto wins for that lane." Ashe waits three seconds with her current passive and has 3% chance to crit.

How is she not being picked as the greatest laner in the game then? This is honestly something I'm not understanding... Hell she gets a free crit at the very start of the game, yet we still never see her.
 
TheValkyries said:
You're all complaining about 4% crit chance making games "auto wins for that lane." Ashe waits three seconds with her current passive and has 3% chance to crit.

How is she not being picked as the greatest laner in the game then? This is honestly something I'm not understanding... Hell she gets a free crit at the very start of the game, yet we still never see her.
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The crit chance was honestly only a problem for higher elo players because they know the matchup and can predict which champ wins a duel at what HP with what items, but they can't predict when their opponent will crit. The Ashe comparison fails when these pros know how to abuse Ashe even with the chance that she will crit.
 
TheValkyries said:
You're all complaining about 4% crit chance making games "auto wins for that lane." Ashe waits three seconds with her current passive and has 3% chance to crit.

How is she not being picked as the greatest laner in the game then? This is honestly something I'm not understanding... Hell she gets a free crit at the very start of the game, yet we still never see her.
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...You do realize that as soon as she attacks she loses the passive and has to wait another three seconds to try again right? She can't afford to do this or lose a ton of cs. I'm not saying von's argument isn't legit but this seems a litte facetious.
 
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Laned against Gragas. Went 0/1/0 in lane with the one death being to a Shaco gank. But I outfarmed the HELL out of Gragas. Once it shifted to teamfights I was up 40 CS. Also, I only died to that first Shaco gank because Grag refused to B and so I didn't B either. Just kept on outfarming him. So Shaco had already bought once or twice and I was chilling with just boots.

I know only noobs cry about KS. But I believe Shaco lost his team the game by stealing kills. He seriously spent all of his time hiding in bushes and using his stealth to run up and kill someone once they were almost dead. He was also negative until our team decided we just wanted to end it and so pushed way too recklessly and overextended and got ganked when we were alone and such. I know their Nasus had to be pissed because there were a few times when I was dumb and thought I could burst him down and right when he was about to kill me Shaco strolled in and hit me once.

EDIT: Morgana should just be system-banned in blind pick. Most OP piece of shit in the game. I would land my Q fairly consistently and even get a few Es in to harass her down. She would land one dark binding and burst me down completely. And she was faster than me so if I didn't die she could just bind me again. And she sucked too. She was trying to hit me with binding almost every time it was off cooldown at times and missing them all. But the one time she hits you it's GG. The only option is to let her zone you out and then she just farms and kills you under tower.
 
TheValkyries said:
You're all complaining about 4% crit chance making games "auto wins for that lane." Ashe waits three seconds with her current passive and has 3% chance to crit.

How is she not being picked as the greatest laner in the game then? This is honestly something I'm not understanding... Hell she gets a free crit at the very start of the game, yet we still never see her.
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Because Soraka Sona Taric Alistar all heal it off. And Ashe has no steroids, and is just generally weak. There you go.

And I just bought Shyvanna today, fun as hell to play and jungle. Especially because I'm level 23 and people don't ward so you just get free kills all day if they push <_<
 
doomvendingmachine said:
...You do realize that as soon as she attacks she loses the passive and has to wait another three seconds to try again right? She can't afford to do this or lose a ton of cs. I'm not saying von's argument isn't legit but this seems a litte facetious.
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Ohhh, so to make the 4% crit effective you have to be attacking the other player constantly? Ok, I guess I didn't understand this all the way through. I thought that there was long enough time in between waves to charge up a crit...
 
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