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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

supermarth64 said:
wat
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Pretty sure he's trying to say that the damage source being magical doesn't mean anything until you get last whisper, at which point the physical damage becomes stronger because it bennefits from the Arpen while the magical does not.

I have no opinion on the concept of as lulu btw, just tryna clarify what I think he means.
 
Yup. 117 extra AD would be a busted passive, between being magic damage and the fact that it can be blocked it does reduce the benefit to just very good (but still busted when it comes to farming). Building a Last Whisper widens that gap further but it's still worth it for the same reason it's worth it on any AD carry.
 
If it was 117 extra physical damage... but it isn't. Her passive doesn't scale with crit or lifesteal (armor penetration isn't the relevant stat here), nor does Lulu has any AD scaling on her abilities at all, so there's no particular attractiveness to building her straight AD carry other than oh well she's a ranged autoattacker.

Teemo normally builds tanky on-hit because of his 500 autoattack range and lack of escapes. Lulu is certainly not lacking in self-protection but she should still stick to being a caster, her crap base AS severely limits her damage output as an autoattacker of any sort. Teemo's base AS is excellent, as is Kennen's if you want to make an AD carry out of a caster. Orianna's AS compares reasonably with typical carries and she still packs a ton of utility and the passive autoattack steroid that Lulu has.
 
Bringing up Orianna crushes your argument, aside from the fact that her tools aren't half as good for an AD carry as Lulu's (a pure magic damage attack, a slow on par with Miss Fortune's, and a fling. Yeah she has a shield, but that contributes the least to AD Lulu). Orianna has 30 extra damage to Lulu's 117. Orianna can attack 3 times to do start doing 43 extra damage, Lulu does 117 damage on each attack. Yeah, it's not quite 117 AD, I already said that. But it's significant enough that it doesn't need Crit or Lifesteal. The other AD you build will benefit from those.

So why would you play Lulu as a carry? Because she can farm as well as Sivir and is a top tier duelist. Passive + Q clears waves with just a Zerkers, Polymorph + Ult kills any squishy. Reach endgame faster than opponent's Carry and then win. If the game goes long you will drop off in damage but make up for it a lot with great utility. Lulu isn't a top tier AD carry, but she is much more viable as one than as a mage.

1.3 AP ratio for a mage just doesn't cut it. AD Lulu is a bully holding an opponent down while she autoattacks. But you aren't going to be holding them down long enough to wait for the 7 second cooldown on Glitterlance to come off. Then a .5 AP ratio to bonus health on her ult? That's a fucking insult. I can see Lulu getting some AP if she is support, and support is what she is made for, but as an AP carry she's not very good.

EDIT: Oh yeah, there's another stat that often never gets considered just because they aren't written down anywhere. Missile speed. Missile speed is extremely important in dictating who can be an AD carry, and Lulu has great missile speed.
 
Lulu is a fantastic AP carry, no idea what you talking about. Her ratios are irrelevant when she zones out the opposing AP to the point where they either die for cs or don't get any cs, or lose. Lulu is unfair =/
 
Yeah, she does that mid when building AD too. Then after laning phase AP Lulu becomes support because the AP does little for her. If you want to shut out mid lane while building AP on a support, play Soraka. She tanks and deals damage better than Lulu.

Just to clarify, the passive damage is not what makes AD Lulu good, just what makes her passable. What makes her good is her Sivir like farming, her Nidalee like escape mechanisms, and great laning, dueling, and utility. If Ashe had the same DPS, worse utility, and better everything else, she would be Lulu.
 
vonFiedler said:
Then after laning phase AP Lulu becomes support because the AP does little for her.
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Having tinkered around with mainly AP builds, I disagree with this. She brings a lot of damage to the table during a teamfight precisely because she will have been quite farmed by that point. I don't play ranked so my opinion may be invalid but I'm sure there are decently ranked players who can attest to this.
 
The difference is AP Lulu and Ashe scale into late game so well due to their amazing utility. I don't see AD Lulu doing that. Sure she will have some stuff but she will be weak overall.
 
I don't think anyone gives two shits about autoattack missile speed outside of making fun of Soraka's bananas. Autoattacks can't be dodged and don't apply any special effects. I'd say it's even less important than autoattack animation, if you've ever played Blitz/Naut or a number of casters with shitty animations you know how much of a pain in the ass it makes animation cancelling to keep your mobility high and maximize your autoattack reset.

Orianna is a better AD carry than Lulu because there is a very big difference between 0.625 base AS and 0.658 base AS (and nearly double the natural growth too). To illustrate the point, you might say Orianna has a Recurve Bow's headstart to the AS cap or built-in Zerks relative to Lulu. The only viable "carry" with a base AS that low is AD Sion and that's simply because 100% lifesteal is really broken. ;/ "But Lulu has two BF Swords over her!" Effectively one BFS since it doesn't benefit from crit/lifesteal, a Pickaxe or less with ambient AP (Baron buff, WotA aura, ally abilities) or appropriate itemization (Nashor's, Gunblade, Rageblade, Sheen/TF)... Orianna will deal more damage. At any rate, shut up because arguing which AP caster is a better AD carry is really dumb. :evan:

Lulu isn't a hard AP carry in the vein of Brand or Karthus or whatever but that doesn't make her a bad caster. She just moves into more of a support hybrid role late-game, more like a Morgana or Zilean. Her damage falls off, having only two damaging spells (like a Zilean double Bomb!), but she continues to contribute through her utility: an AoE almost-snare, a pseudo-stun and a gigantic "heal" with a big-ass slowing aura. Personally I think she's on par on with Janna at the top of the support food chain anyway and kinda wish people would get off the idea of playing her as a non-support so much. ;( But whatever.
 
What is with the BR nb overload? Played 3-4 games tonight and not one person spoke English as a first language other than me.
 
THEY ARE JUST SAYING GOODBYE TO YOU BEFORE THEY GET THEIR OWN SERVER ;_______;

you insensitive jerk
 
Mr.E said:
I don't think anyone gives two shits about autoattack missile speed outside of making fun of Soraka's bananas. Autoattacks can't be dodged and don't apply any special effects. I'd say it's even less important than autoattack animation, if you've ever played Blitz/Naut or a number of casters with shitty animations you know how much of a pain in the ass it makes animation cancelling to keep your mobility high and maximize your autoattack reset.
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Wow, not thinking missile speed is a factor? And then comparing it to attack animation when they BOTH factor into how easily you farm, kite, and just plain duel? The attack animation is part of how fast a missile gets from you to your target, so when I say Lulu is great I mean she's great. Just trust me on this, I have test played every single AP caster in the game as AD and missile speed is always one of the biggest factors. And actually I like Lulu a butt load more than Kennen who really drops off in farm and doesn't have the same amount of utility.

Orianna is a better AD carry than Lulu because there is a very big difference between 0.625 base AS and 0.658 base AS (and nearly double the natural growth too). To illustrate the point, you might say Orianna has a Recurve Bow's headstart to the AS cap or built-in Zerks relative to Lulu.
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Let's illustrate that point further!

Lulu has 182 DPS. Orianna has 129 DPS with a bad missile speed/mediocre animation/poor range. Ashe has 103 DPS. Vayne has 168 DPS.

"But Lulu has two BF Swords over her!" Effectively one BFS since it doesn't benefit from crit/lifesteal
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What's that? You want to halve all magic damage (that's 1 and a half BF swords btw, and Orianna doesn't have a recurve bow ahead of Lulu)? Now Lulu has 131 DPS and Orianna has 113 on top several previously mentioned factors that totally invalidate her as an ad carry, less utility, no dueling, no escape, poor farming.

At any rate, shut up because arguing which AP caster is a better AD carry is really dumb. :evan:
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Don't get so flustered that you have to tell me to shut up then. I've always done the math and the testing for the silly things I do, resorting to hyperbole before doing them yourself is just gonna make you look silly too.

Lulu isn't a hard AP carry in the vein of Brand or Karthus or whatever but that doesn't make her a bad caster. She just moves into more of a support hybrid role late-game, more like a Morgana or Zilean. Her damage falls off, having only two damaging spells (like a Zilean double Bomb!), but she continues to contribute through her utility: an AoE almost-snare, a pseudo-stun and a gigantic "heal" with a big-ass slowing aura. Personally I think she's on par on with Janna at the top of the support food chain anyway and kinda wish people would get off the idea of playing her as a non-support so much. ;( But whatever.
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AP Lulu does continue to support after dropping off in damage, you can put that in the ever growing file of "I said that already".

Then after laning phase AP Lulu becomes support because the AP does little for her.
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But AD Carry Lulu provides that Utility WHILE facerolling. AP Lulu will have .5 extra bonus health to her Ult (gag me with a spoon). So for your troubles you get a bigger shield that you'll waste half the time on simple burst damage. Zilean does more damage for his AP (1.8) and gets waaaaay more HP out of it (2.0). Morganna doesn't transition into support with her damage ratios (3.3) so much as she ALSO has a support spell with a better ratio than Lulu's.

Is she top tier Support? Yeah definitely. But she's a decent AD carry and only a mediocre AP carry. But hey, as long as no one is jungling with her.
 
every time we've seen lulu in tournament play its been AP top or mid

also if you think her passive is so great then just fucking use help pix on your actual ad carry so you get both ap ratios and massive pix damage
 
The passive isn't what makes her great, it makes her useable.

Just to clarify, the passive damage is not what makes AD Lulu good, just what makes her passable.
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The AD carry will only benefit from Help Pix for a few seconds, and may not even always be the best shield target.
 
Is anyone else not able to get into a game, see their ip or rp, see the store icon, see their profile, or see their friends list?

After the patch, my client is totally fucked. My two friends who downloaded the patch at the same time as me didn't have this issue. I even tried it on another laptop's client and my account worked.

After all that, I decided to re-install, but that didn't work either. Is my only option to wait...
 
idk if i'm having this problem because i haven't been on lol today but on scarra's stream last night a lot of people were saying that they were having problems and apparently ranked was disabled, so i'm pretty sure it's not just you.
 
vonFiedler said:
So that to get the bundle with the best skin you have to buy all three? The third skin is usually the coolest anyway.
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Yeah, that's what confuses me. It's really subjective and the prices aren't even different. Why bundle only one??

In other news, I picked up Volibear. I'm late to the party, but he seems to have a sweet laning phase and is great at dueling. Any recommended builds?
 
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