(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
The current discussion in the movepool oddities thread made me realise why I've been put off by Regidrago so far.

I actually like its design and think it looks pretty cool, but a Dragon-Type Regi shouldn't really exist. The whole point of the Regis is that they're moulded from natural materials by Regigigas, but dragon energy isn't the same type of natural substance that ice, rock, metal and electricity are. And it's not like a grass, poison, fire, ground, water, or even flying if they went the wind route Regi wouldn't work, so skipping straight to dragon just seems off?

Especially Grass-, Poison- and Ground-Type. These are sorely underrepresented in legendary / mythical circles.
Maybe the idea is that it's also made of raw magic (and considering its arms form a dragon's face, maybe from dragon bones)? Also, each Titans represent a certain "age" of development. Regirock is Stone Age, Regice is Ice Age, Registeel is Bronze/Iron Age, Regieleki is Digital/Information Age, and Regidrago would likely be the Dark/Middle/Medieval Ages. A not so great time as, in our world, its when the Roman Empire fell which resulted in a lot of conflicts and wars. It was a chaotic time that was also filled with superstitions & legends such as this giant lizard which flew around and burned down people and villages, so in terms of Pokemon why not use that aspect into a Pokemon?

Hmm, let's see what other Ages we got... Age of Enlightenment, Age of Discovery, Viking Age, Space Age, Age of Sail, Gilded Age, Atomic Age, Industrial/Machine Age, Jet Age, Jazz Age, Axial Age... we've got quite a few ideas left for Titan concepts.
 
Maybe the idea is that it's also made of raw magic (and considering its arms form a dragon's face, maybe from dragon bones)? Also, each Titans represent a certain "age" of development. Regirock is Stone Age, Regice is Ice Age, Registeel is Bronze/Iron Age, Regieleki is Digital/Information Age, and Regidrago would likely be the Dark/Middle/Medieval Ages. A not so great time as, in our world, its when the Roman Empire fell which resulted in a lot of conflicts and wars. It was a chaotic time that was also filled with superstitions & legends such as this giant lizard which flew around and burned down people and villages, so in terms of Pokemon why not use that aspect into a Pokemon?

Hmm, let's see what other Ages we got... Age of Enlightenment, Age of Discovery, Viking Age, Space Age, Age of Sail, Gilded Age, Atomic Age, Industrial/Machine Age, Jet Age, Jazz Age, Axial Age... we've got quite a few ideas left for Titan concepts.
Is there any actual source (GF interview, source code, etc.) that lends credence to this "regis represent ages of history" theory? I've only ever seen it on Bulbapedia and it always sounded a bit farfetch'd to me, like it was someone's pet theory that they edited on to Bulbapedia and it spread instead of getting taken down. It just seems a bit too overly specific and like someone was trying to force fit a complicated pattern to explain the (original) regi types, as opposed to GF just thinking those would he plausible types to build golems out of.
 
The current discussion in the movepool oddities thread made me realise why I've been put off by Regidrago so far.

I actually like its design and think it looks pretty cool, but a Dragon-Type Regi shouldn't really exist. The whole point of the Regis is that they're moulded from natural materials by Regigigas, but dragon energy isn't the same type of natural substance that ice, rock, metal and electricity are. And it's not like a grass, poison, fire, ground, water, or even flying if they went the wind route Regi wouldn't work, so skipping straight to dragon just seems off?

Especially Grass-, Poison- and Ground-Type. These are sorely underrepresented in legendary / mythical circles.
Dragon is an "element" in the Pokémon world so it wouldn't be surprising if it could exist as a natural substance.
 
Is there any actual source (GF interview, source code, etc.) that lends credence to this "regis represent ages of history" theory? I've only ever seen it on Bulbapedia and it always sounded a bit farfetch'd to me, like it was someone's pet theory that they edited on to Bulbapedia and it spread instead of getting taken down. It just seems a bit too overly specific and like someone was trying to force fit a complicated pattern to explain the (original) regi types, as opposed to GF just thinking those would he plausible types to build golems out of.
pokemon fandom always tries a little too hard to find patterns and associations in things that probably isn't there at all. The Ages are so wide in what they cover that just about any new Regi could have been slotted into one, no matter what they were


My personal favorite is trying really hard to associate the Therian forms with some aztec gods (?!) or the four symbols (even though there's only 3 of them & don't line up right).
Sometimes an incarnation of raijin just turns into a bird because we recieved enough backlash over the designs and thats okay
 
Cross posting to here since kurona got lost
I think the idea behind Regidraco is that they made it out of some bones they found
It's literally "crystallized dragon energy"
Folklore tells that the Legendary Pokémon Regigigas tried to create a Pokémon from crystallized dragon energy but ran out of crystals and was only able to complete the head.
Regidrago’s body is composed of crystallized dragon energy. The energy is densest in its central core.
Its body is composed of crystallized dragon energy. Regidrago is said to have the powers of every dragon Pokémon.
There is a theory that the arms are made out of dragon bones, at least
An academic theory proposes that Regidrago's arms were once the head of an ancient dragon Pokémon. The theory remains unproven
but the body itself isnt'
 
And yet they're said to be manmade...

BEHOLD, A MAN

They aren't said to be manmade at all, I don't think

None of the Regi's entries mention being made by ancient peoples, just that they were sealed away. Most of the other entries are just scientific surveys of their materials
The Sealed Chamber...
IN THIS CAVE WE HAVE LIVED.
WE OWE ALL TO THE POKEMON.
BUT, WE SEALED THE POKEMON AWAY.
WE FEARED IT.
THOSE WITH COURAGE, THOSE WITH HOPE.
OPEN A DOOR. AN ETERNAL POKEMON WAITS.
Merely says they lived with them, but grew to fear them and sealed them away.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Is there any actual source (GF interview, source code, etc.) that lends credence to this "regis represent ages of history" theory? I've only ever seen it on Bulbapedia and it always sounded a bit farfetch'd to me, like it was someone's pet theory that they edited on to Bulbapedia and it spread instead of getting taken down. It just seems a bit too overly specific and like someone was trying to force fit a complicated pattern to explain the (original) regi types, as opposed to GF just thinking those would he plausible types to build golems out of.
I understand not wanting to use it as fact but I don't see it too much of a stretch this is at least a likely inspiration. A lot of Pokemon designs you can assume elements of it are based on something but GF hasn't specifically said that to be the case (like Qwilfish also being based on a naval mine as much as a pufferfish). Now there are some instances where fan theories really do stretch credibility (like the "pattern" of the Fire & Grass Starters and the Elemental Monkeys being based on the Three Wise Monkeys), but with how Hoenn's theme was nature-based and the titans are Rock, Ice, and Steel while skipping over other materials like Grass (wood, which is an easier building material than ice) & Ground (clay, which the mythical golem was made of), I think it was a deliberate reference. Likewise, when they decided to make two new ones, they thought of what other "ages" there were and settled on Digital and Medieval, using Electric and Dragon to represent them. Why choose those Types otherwise (I won't argue there may be another reason, but any I think of comes with some asterisks)?

Dragon is an "element" in the Pokémon world so it wouldn't be surprising if it could exist as a natural substance.
Not the first time we've had crystalized dragon energy, remember the Type Gems?

My personal favorite is trying really hard to associate the Therian forms with some aztec gods (?!) or the four symbols (even though there's only 3 of them & don't line up right).
Sometimes an incarnation of raijin just turns into a bird because we recieved enough backlash over the designs and thats okay
Never heard about the Aztec Gods, though I do go with the Four Symbols. Sure, a Flying elemental turning into a bird is kind of obvious, but a fertility deity turning into a tiger? And a thunderstorm storm deity turning into a dragon isn't uncommon, but it's certainly an odd looking dragon (BTW, the Black Tortoise isn't exactly just a Tortoise).

Regigigas is clearly skilled at finding random sources of dragon energy in the pokemon world and crystalizing it...

Yep that totally makes sense
It has/had the strength to move the continents. I wouldn't be surprised it able to take an energy source, crushing it between its hands creating so much pressure (maybe along with some minerals so there's something to bind to) it crystalizes. As for finding all the dragon energy, well its a Legendary in a region where the main trio were all Dragon-type, each having an orb that increased their Dragon-type moves.

He just needs to wait 5 turns for it. :psysly:
It's a very detailed worker (also did you assume its gender?).

Free Regijazz, the Titan shaped like a saxophone
It can be Ghost-type, cause it got the Blues.

Age of Enlightenment: Psychic
Age of Discovery: Ground
Viking Age: Fighting
Space Age: Bug
Age of Sail: Water
Gilded Age: Grass
Atomic Age: Poison
Industrial/Machine Age: Fire
Jet Age: Flying
Jazz Age: Ghost
Axial Age: Fairy
 

Bull Of Heaven

99 Pounders / 4'3" Feet
is a Pre-Contributor
I think the idea that humans made the other Regis as part of a process by which they sealed Regigigas away is yet another of those fan theories that became so commonly accepted that some people just assumed they were canon. At least the part about humans having sealed Regigigas and/or the others has some support in the games.

While we're talking about fan theories that are people tend to just take as confirmed, is there much actual evidence that the Kalos legendaries take inspiration from Norse mythology? I see it asserted as a known fact now and then, but it's not clear to me that it's anything other than someone's popular guess.

I completely believe the thing about the three monkeys though.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
While we're talking about fan theories that are people tend to just take as confirmed, is there much actual evidence that the Kalos legendaries take inspiration from Norse mythology? I see it asserted as a known fact now and then, but it's not clear to me that it's anything other than someone's popular guess.
No, GF rarely talk about Legendary designs. GF have never said:
  • What the Beast Trio were (I don't think GF even has a collective name for them).
  • Ho-Oh was based on a (Chinese) Phoenix (the Fenghuang) and Lugia on a Ryujin.
  • Eon Duo were based on Aeons (or jet planes).
  • Groudon was based on the Behemoth, Kyogre on the Leviathan (or an orca), and Rayquaza on the Ziz (or Asian Dragon).
  • Lake Trio are based on the Imperial Regalia of Japan.
  • The Creation Trio are based on the three phases of matter.
  • The Swords of Justice are based on the Three Musketeers.
  • Meloetta is based on the Greek Muses.
  • The Forces of Nature are based on Japanese Gods.
  • The Guardian Deities & Zeraora are based on the Hawaiian Gods (and Marshadow on Nightmarchers).
 
While we're talking about fan theories that are people tend to just take as confirmed, is there much actual evidence that the Kalos legendaries take inspiration from Norse mythology? I see it asserted as a known fact now and then, but it's not clear to me that it's anything other than someone's popular guess.
I don't think they've ever explicitly stated it, just going off Xerneas being turning into a tree and Zygarde in particular being based on a snake and such. The initial trailer of XY having a giant, conspicious tree near Xerneas also probably got people guessing.


Though double checking bulbapedia in case there was some more interviews beyond the artblock comment for Xerneas I chuckle at seeing at least one editor trying to now push Celctic inspiration in particular. And boy is the Zygarde section just a veritable shmorgishboard of throwing every possible idea at the wall
Zygarde's 10%, 50%, and Complete Formes may be inspired in part by the three children of Loki and Angrboða: Fenrir, Jörmungandr, and Hel.

Zygarde 10% Forme may be based on Fenrir. The green leash-like object around its neck could be based on Gleipnir, the rope that binds Fenrir. Also, its left front paw has a different color from the others, being green instead of black, which is possibly a reference to Fenrir biting off the god Týr's right hand in reprisal for being bound by him. This Forme could also draw inspiration from Garmr, the watchdog that guards Helheim's gate. In appearance, Zygarde 10% Forme resembles a Doberman Pinscher.

Zygarde 50% Forme's appearance is based on a serpent in the shape of the letter Z. It may also draw inspiration from Jörmungandr, a sea serpent that encircles the earth, and Níðhöggr, a dragon that gnaws at the roots of Yggdrasil, the world tree. Its flat shape and wriggling movement may be inspired by the tsuchinoko, a Japanese cryptid, and its snakelike appearance may be inspired by nāga, a class of snake entities in South and Southeast Asian cultures.

Zygarde Complete Forme may be based on Hel, the ruler of Helheim, the realm of the dead in Nordic myth. The colors on Complete Forme's chest match the colors of the real-world flag of France, the country which inspired the region of Kalos. These colors also match the colors Xerneas and Yveltal. Design-wise, Zygarde Complete Forme resembles a humanoid giant mecha despite its organic basis; its light-up technological appearance, "transforming"/"combining" gimmick and the face-like pattern on its chest are all tropes commonly used for fictional mecha.

Zygarde Cell and Zygarde Core may be based on cells as well as flatworms (specifically planaria) and single-celled organisms such as slime molds and members of Euglena. Some planarians' ocelli also resemble eyes, which may have inspired the designs for the Cell and Core Zygarde. The hexagons within them may represent a cell nucleus.
Honestly until we see more of them in significant roles (Z Version..................) I'm willing to say the broad idea of these really might have nothing to do with Norse mythos at all and they did choose these designs for other reasons. What made a good shape, what might be associated with these animals, what just looked cool, what went with the seeming steps of life motif which is very clearly obvious: Chromosomes, Nerves and Cells



I completely believe the thing about the three monkeys though.
I'll be honest I really...don't get why. Nothing about their behaviors really lines up with it at all, so it has to be by appearence but uhhhh.. Well, let's start with Panour, right?


Well hey that's pretty fair, right? Closed eyes, part of a monkey trio. Bing bang zoom!



But as soon as we reach Pansear I have problems. This relies on interpreting the hand up as being hard of hearing, but it honestly just looks like a sheepish wave.


And continuing our reverse engineering trend, Pansage would have to be "speak no evil" but... no?
It's mouth is fully open, which is generally not the visual associated with "speak no evil". And if we take closed eyes and a hand-to-ear as short hand, it's weird that no obstruction is being used instead of something as simple as covering its mouth.

Honestly if James Turner ever goes "yeah they were" he kind of did a poor job implementing the idea
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Honestly until we see more of them in significant roles (Z Version..................) I'm willing to say the broad idea of these really might have nothing to do with Norse mythos at all and they did choose these designs for other reasons.
I believe the Norse mythos one. Just reading it from Bulbapedia makes it look complicated because they throw everything it could possibly be, but if we take all that extra stuff away it pretty much just says the various forms of Zygarde are based on the children of Loki.

And another thing which defeats the Elemental Monkeys being based on the Three Wise Monkeys is that their evolutions (or Simisage and Simisear at least) do not have the "hints" which Pansage and Pansear did.
 
I believe the Norse mythos one. Just reading it from Bulbapedia makes it look complicated because they throw everything it could possibly be, but if we take all that extra stuff away it pretty much just says the various forms of Zygarde are based on the children of Loki.
The thing that gets me is that this only really works on the grounds of "Zygarde is based on Jormungandr"

Without that root cause to make you look for anything, would you land on "Hel" for this?


There's not even any reasoning behind it. Fenrir as 10% they at least tried. Collar = binding rope. Differently colored foot = the foot bit off. And, hey, 10% is a dog and Fenrir is a notable dog! I can get all that, much more solid than the monkey theories at least. Even if it's also easy to see it just being....a dog.*
But 100% is Hel because... well it made for a third in a trio of mythic figures. I even remember hearing, elsewhere, that oh Complete is based on Loki instead, I think at least once I saw Odin floated by. You could probably make a case for several different gods







*Side note, unrelated to "is it fenrir?" entirely: I find it funny that the offiical concept art for Zygarde 10% (you can see a small scan here https://www.deviantart.com/chipmunkraccoonoz/journal/Something-to-expect-721002572 ) has a full thing of how the leash functions and how Bonnie would use it but so far as I remember, the leash never gets used at all so its more of a cool scarf collar lol.
 
The thing that gets me is that this only really works on the grounds of "Zygarde is based on Jormungandr"

Without that root cause to make you look for anything, would you land on "Hel" for this?


There's not even any reasoning behind it. Fenrir as 10% they at least tried. Collar = binding rope. Differently colored foot = the foot bit off. And, hey, 10% is a dog and Fenrir is a notable dog! I can get all that, much more solid than the monkey theories at least. Even if it's also easy to see it just being....a dog.*
But 100% is Hel because... well it made for a third in a trio of mythic figures. I even remember hearing, elsewhere, that oh Complete is based on Loki instead, I think at least once I saw Odin floated by. You could probably make a case for several different gods







*Side note, unrelated to "is it fenrir?" entirely: I find it funny that the offiical concept art for Zygarde 10% (you can see a small scan here https://www.deviantart.com/chipmunkraccoonoz/journal/Something-to-expect-721002572 ) has a full thing of how the leash functions and how Bonnie would use it but so far as I remember, the leash never gets used at all so its more of a cool scarf collar lol.
Hel is frequently depicted as half-alive, half-undead, which fits decently with Zygarde's role as a mediator between life and death as well as 100%'s red/blue accents on each side if you take them as representative of Xerneas and Yveltal.
 

AllTerrainVen0moth

Banned deucer.
I don't think the Adventurers are made to be deliberately harder but wind up easier, they just have totally different game design sense going on.

Default raids you can baaaasically try as many times as you want and bring whoever you want on a Pokemon you know the entire time about. The shitty Partners are probably a (BAD) feature to encourage you to play with others & the terrible shield mechanic is to prevent you from running ramshackle over them & the general power of 5* raids is to get you to constantly play them alongside the raritiy of G-Max pokemon and event raids.

Adventures are (1) a purposeful marathong (2) using rental Pokemon through a dungeon (3) where each round you select one of several different Pokemon you only vaguely know you're going to reach with (4) the ultimate goal being a legendary pokemon that's by design stronger than your standard fair and (5) they want you to devote time but not TOO much time per run so its easy to get into a gameplay loop. So it's balanced accordingly: the AI goes by the same rules you do, all Pokemon have to have the same levels, there's no shields because you can't guarantee having enough pokemon to reasonably get through them & if they were there adventures would take even longer than they want you to spend and all captures are guaranteed even when playing multiplayer because the primary goal of this whole thing is capturing the nearly 50 legendaries in the dens.

Basically normal raids are a treadmill, adventures are goal-based & better for it
Remember the mewtwo raids? I had to get some friends together and bring some of our strongest pokemon together, and we just BARELY did it. The rewards werent even worth it tbh
 

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