I'd say no. It would work like Mega Stones or Z-Crystals, where it can't be removed by stuff like Knock Off or Trick.
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Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter Uselesscrab
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Full Effect Role Comp Sets
Finally got around to finish some of the sets that inspired the role comp. Here are the pastebins for each major heading, with the nicknames for the sets trying to allude to the new affects or bonuses it gets in the meta. Let me know if I'm missing anything or if you can think of a better set option / role!
Megas: https://pokepast.es/6c9873abc5bfd53f
Physical Wall Breakers: https://pokepast.es/2d5ab3b592e1cfe3
Special Wall Breakers: https://pokepast.es/39bfd75ee6907670
Mixed Wall Breakers: https://pokepast.es/77e01a34df7b8c7f
Stall Breakers: https://pokepast.es/a05706d87bd512d3
Physical Walls: https://pokepast.es/dc4ea8d6e7d1644a
Special and Mixed Walls: https://pokepast.es/5583a4b66c3436b2
Pivots: https://pokepast.es/aa7db7838285e714
Nightmare Abuse: https://pokepast.es/0c8f4042e217a1fa
I stopped at sweepers and priority, as most of the users are covered in pastebins above. I also have a few notes regarding what I believe the meta would become, which should also validate some of the roles:
Attack Shortcut:
>Offensively, the types that seem to have the most buffs are Dark, Water, Normal, Ground, Flying, and Electric. There are also a few new good users of buffs to the Ghost, Poison, Grass, and Fighting attacks that are usable. No doubt though, that there will be a ton of offensive Dark, Water, Normal, and Ground users.
-Dark types get STAB in Assurance, Sucker, Pursuit, and Knock Off (not to mention a crazy powerful Z move for Incineroar). They also have immunity to all Prankster attacks, which normally would have +1 priority and easy sweeping. Dark types will no doubt play a crucial role in this meta.
-Water types have a 130 bp STAB Brine to take advantage of, which could be supported further with great Ice coverage in Blizzard, and buffed with Rain. Many good Water types can be seen taking advantage of this offensively and defensively.
-Ground types lost EQ, but got the 150 bp Stomping Tantrum. That alone is a monster, and can be seen often buffed with Sand Force or other powerful abilities.
-Normal types have new STABs on both ends with 120 bp Round and a 140 bp Facade, Retaliate, or Last Resort. Last Resort is interesting as it can be powered up with Normalium Z to have a much stronger Normal attack compared to Facade, so it isn't entirely outclassed.
>Offensive will likely be having a combo of the new high bp attacks with offensive boosting abilities. Many abilities are now always active, likely giving a x1.25-x1.5 buff to most / some attacks.
>Salac Berry might be the most game changing offensive item. Having +1 speed on switch in is great for new potential sweepers, now that they have the speed immediately and don't need set up. They can instead set up attack / special attack, and sweep not having to worry as much about speed. A dangerously powerful trick to keep, but like OU's Electric Seed Hawlucha, once it is consumed it's gone, and being phazed loses the bonus. This makes CS users still viable as much more reliable speed checks, while Salac users can still be great but risky late game sweepers.
>The Lieche / Petaya Berries also can offer an immediate stage increase to attack / special attack, which can be great for late game sweepers, wallbreakers, or revenge killers, but they are much more expendable compared to the choice items.
>Stick, the signature item for Farfetch'd (or Chancey's Lucky Punch), makes attacks have a 50% crit chance, or 100% for +1 crit attacks. This could be frustrating, and might be worth banning, but is worth noting for some Stallbreaker sets, as they can set up and get past Unaware walls.
>Expert Belt adds a x1.2 multiplier to all attacks, making it a better LO in most cases.
>While most x2 speed abilities are banned, Slush Rush and Surge Surfer remain, making the users very fast at little cost (Quick Feet and Speed Boost the only other legal speed buffing abilities).
>New priority includes a non-restrictive Sucker Punch, Prankster users that add priority to all attacks, Gale Wings that works at any remaining health, Triage for all attacks, and Custap Berry that works immediately.
>Custap Berry can be put on any set to immediately have a one time priority attack, making it great for revenge killing, It could also be held more reliably with Harvest users, which have infinite priority that isn't walled by Dark types.
>Defensively, walls mostly center around buffed recovery moves, contact effects, or Nightmare.
>Swallow always works and recovers 100%, and weather based abilities like Synthesis or Moonlight restore 66.7%.
>Hydration can be combined with Rest to fully restore both health and status, all while being cured at the end of the turn.
>Rain Dish and Ice Body offer great residual recovery, taking the place of the now banned Poison Heal.
>Rocky Helmet and abilities like Static also activate on special attacks, meaning there can be dangerous dividends to reckless all out attackers when walls stack Rocky Helmet with Rough Skin/Iron Barbs/Aftermath ect (note: Aftermath now activates on any contact attack, but still not special attacks).
>Nightmare works on woke targets, making it a nasty -25% max hp effect to have at the end of turns, more so when trapped.
>Most effects will have their max duration. This includes weather, terrains, and screens. Aurora Vail can be used outside of Hail, but still needs Light Clay to get the full amount of turns.
-Dark types get STAB in Assurance, Sucker, Pursuit, and Knock Off (not to mention a crazy powerful Z move for Incineroar). They also have immunity to all Prankster attacks, which normally would have +1 priority and easy sweeping. Dark types will no doubt play a crucial role in this meta.
-Water types have a 130 bp STAB Brine to take advantage of, which could be supported further with great Ice coverage in Blizzard, and buffed with Rain. Many good Water types can be seen taking advantage of this offensively and defensively.
-Ground types lost EQ, but got the 150 bp Stomping Tantrum. That alone is a monster, and can be seen often buffed with Sand Force or other powerful abilities.
-Normal types have new STABs on both ends with 120 bp Round and a 140 bp Facade, Retaliate, or Last Resort. Last Resort is interesting as it can be powered up with Normalium Z to have a much stronger Normal attack compared to Facade, so it isn't entirely outclassed.
>Offensive will likely be having a combo of the new high bp attacks with offensive boosting abilities. Many abilities are now always active, likely giving a x1.25-x1.5 buff to most / some attacks.
>Salac Berry might be the most game changing offensive item. Having +1 speed on switch in is great for new potential sweepers, now that they have the speed immediately and don't need set up. They can instead set up attack / special attack, and sweep not having to worry as much about speed. A dangerously powerful trick to keep, but like OU's Electric Seed Hawlucha, once it is consumed it's gone, and being phazed loses the bonus. This makes CS users still viable as much more reliable speed checks, while Salac users can still be great but risky late game sweepers.
>The Lieche / Petaya Berries also can offer an immediate stage increase to attack / special attack, which can be great for late game sweepers, wallbreakers, or revenge killers, but they are much more expendable compared to the choice items.
>Stick, the signature item for Farfetch'd (or Chancey's Lucky Punch), makes attacks have a 50% crit chance, or 100% for +1 crit attacks. This could be frustrating, and might be worth banning, but is worth noting for some Stallbreaker sets, as they can set up and get past Unaware walls.
>Expert Belt adds a x1.2 multiplier to all attacks, making it a better LO in most cases.
>While most x2 speed abilities are banned, Slush Rush and Surge Surfer remain, making the users very fast at little cost (Quick Feet and Speed Boost the only other legal speed buffing abilities).
>New priority includes a non-restrictive Sucker Punch, Prankster users that add priority to all attacks, Gale Wings that works at any remaining health, Triage for all attacks, and Custap Berry that works immediately.
>Custap Berry can be put on any set to immediately have a one time priority attack, making it great for revenge killing, It could also be held more reliably with Harvest users, which have infinite priority that isn't walled by Dark types.
>Defensively, walls mostly center around buffed recovery moves, contact effects, or Nightmare.
>Swallow always works and recovers 100%, and weather based abilities like Synthesis or Moonlight restore 66.7%.
>Hydration can be combined with Rest to fully restore both health and status, all while being cured at the end of the turn.
>Rain Dish and Ice Body offer great residual recovery, taking the place of the now banned Poison Heal.
>Rocky Helmet and abilities like Static also activate on special attacks, meaning there can be dangerous dividends to reckless all out attackers when walls stack Rocky Helmet with Rough Skin/Iron Barbs/Aftermath ect (note: Aftermath now activates on any contact attack, but still not special attacks).
>Nightmare works on woke targets, making it a nasty -25% max hp effect to have at the end of turns, more so when trapped.
>Most effects will have their max duration. This includes weather, terrains, and screens. Aurora Vail can be used outside of Hail, but still needs Light Clay to get the full amount of turns.
That's pretty much it, what does anyone else think? I'm still waiting approval with the OM team, and this meta hasn't been coded yet anywhere; all the thoughts I present are completely theoretical.
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Question: Rocky Helmet and its cohorts specifically activate off contact, not physical moves (Don't tell me someone's never switched a RH Ferrothorn in on your Starmie GK'ing. 40% recoil for like, 3% damage), so these Abilities and items now activate when targetted by any move?
Yup! That is because the last check for the activation of Rocky Helmet and other adverse contact effects is a “contact” check. With that gone, they now only have a “target” check, meaning when any apposing Pokemon attacks them with any physical/special/status attack, they will now activate. Note that chance based effects like Static and Flame
Body are still chance based though. They only now can be activated off any attack.
Idk if this was already done, but I was wondering one night: Wouldn't be cool to give Koko a better way to use it's movepool? Well, this is what I came into that (almost) sleepless night:
Photonic Moves (Previously known as Optimised Categories)
Metagame Premise: To put it simple, every move now has a Photon Geyser-esque effect (be either physical or special based on your mon's stats). That means that Tapu Koko can now use it's 115 base Attack stat into work with physical Thunderbolts, Landorus-T now can use unironically Sludge Wave, and Charizard-Y/Mega Latios has access to special Earthquake.
Potencial Bans & Threats: A ton of physical attackers are now benefited by their expanded movepools, like for example Gyarados and Dragonite (access to Flying STAB and powerful coverage in Fire Moves). In response, a lot of physically bulky mons will also be more necessary. Some of them include (Mega) Slowbro, Payapa Berry Toxapex, Intimidate users, and Will-o-Wisp users like Mega Sableye.
Starting Banlist:
Questions for the community:
Photonic Moves (Previously known as Optimised Categories)
Metagame Premise: To put it simple, every move now has a Photon Geyser-esque effect (be either physical or special based on your mon's stats). That means that Tapu Koko can now use it's 115 base Attack stat into work with physical Thunderbolts, Landorus-T now can use unironically Sludge Wave, and Charizard-Y/Mega Latios has access to special Earthquake.
Potencial Bans & Threats: A ton of physical attackers are now benefited by their expanded movepools, like for example Gyarados and Dragonite (access to Flying STAB and powerful coverage in Fire Moves). In response, a lot of physically bulky mons will also be more necessary. Some of them include (Mega) Slowbro, Payapa Berry Toxapex, Intimidate users, and Will-o-Wisp users like Mega Sableye.
Starting Banlist:
- Kyurem-B (Way too strong, powerful STAB with little to no drawback).
- Overheat and it's variants (Too exploitable by physical attackers).
Questions for the community:
- There's enough defensive options available to make Stall good?
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It's Full Potential but it doesn't make attacking stats irrelevant XD.
Yeah totally rename it. It can be called something like “Photon Power” or “Giga Geyser” if you like what I’m getting at. Anyways, it’s not the worst idea, it does kinda remind me of both Full Potential and that one OM that switched the physical/special catagory of moves. Ik that neither of these OMs does exactly what this one does, but it might be too close to pass. Anyways, here’s some sets:
Volcarona @ Electrium Z
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Wild Charge
Electric coverage may not be as good as ground for Volc, but a +1 gigavolt is a guaranteed 1HKO on max special defensive pex and fini, and has an 88% chance to 1HKO fast heatrans after rocks. Not to mention it being able to be buffed with electric terrian, alowing it to then have a 94% chance 1HKO on full special def heatrans after rocks, and even shave off about 40% to chancey.
Garchomp @ Firium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
Chomp makes a great wallbreaker with it’s coverage, and has a nasty 130 bp draco that can be spammed without fear of damage drop offs, as it still only drops special attack. Firium Z after an SD can 1HKO common would be walls or phazers like Cele/Bulu/Skarm, and draco with eq makes a huge dent.
Other cool / huge threats include: Vacuum Wave Kart, Aqua Tail Serp, Explosion specs Blace to mess up pex and heatran (or anything really lol), Superpower specs Keldeo, Overheat zard x, Dazzling Gleam bulu / physical koko, protean gren that can be either full special/physical so it doesn’t spread itself thin (could be a blesssing or a curse i guess for mixed attackers), Hurricane Dragonite, Shift Gear Fleur Cannon phys Mag, Araq with much better coverage but still just ok water stabs, Flamethrower/Thunderbolt Slurpuff, Nasty Plot Espeed Toge, and physical HP on anything that wants it.
To me this meta looks like it favors physical attackers much more mostly because a ton of physical attackers have many great special attacks that are spread around. There will also probably be more physical Draco / Overheat / ect abusers than say special Superpower abusers as well. Physical attackers just look like to benefit more as a whole with this OM, but there’s no doubt a lot of good special sweepers here too.
This would be interesting to play, because while FP turns everything into a mixed attacker (well, it does if you're playing right), this forces every attacker into a single lane. Superpower Keldeo sounds cool until you run into Chansey, which Superpower only 3HKOs. This makes Keldeo and any Pokemon with Psyshock the only true mixed attackers. That being said, I agree with Ho3nConfirm3d, this metagame will be lousy with physical attackers with wide special moves (someone run Scarf Machamp, it'll be hilarious)
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Swords Dance
- Psychic
- Soft-Boiled
An interesting quirk about Photon Geyser is that it actually takes into account stat boosts and drops when determining whether it will be physical or special. This could potentially allow for some mons to change whether they will attack physically or specially on the fly.
I was experimenting earlier, and I find some interseting things to share (mainly mixed attackers):
Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe or 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly / Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm / Earth Power
- Protect
Diancie-M is unsurprisingly a hard mon at switchins, given that it has identical Atk & SpA. The ability to surprice physically bulky mons with special attacks and viceversa is a cool tool to have.
Magearna @ Fairium Z / Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 32 Atk / 8 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fleur Cannon / Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / Ice Beam
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind
This EV spread let's you have a superior Atk stat after a Shift Gear, very useful to deal with specially bulky mons like Chansey. On the other hand, Soul-Heart and Calm Mind let's you surprise most physical walls, like Slowbro, Landorus-T, and Will-o-Wisp users.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Charm
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
As this thing weren't unkillable enough, it also learns a move that decrease the foe's Attack stat, which means that, after enouch uses, their moves become special. Max physical defense is for Psyshock users and Keldeo.
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 16 SpD / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Curse / Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Roost
This set is designed to outspeed Modest Heatran, and hit it hard with a Technician-boosted HP Ground. It's also good against Toxapex, who most likely will run physically bulky sets & carry Haze most of the time.
Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Dance
- Hurricane
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
Oh boy, this thing is scary. Earthquake & Flamethrower will remove any relevant Steel Type, as well as other checks, while SSSS nukes everything else. The only downside is Hurricane's low accurasy, which is partially patched by Flynium Z.
Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam/Knock Off
Meloetta is probably the mon that best enbodies the term of mixed attacker. Relic Song transforms Melo from a bulky special attacker into a fast physical attacker, and thanks to this OM mechanics, it's able to exploit those changes at full, surpricing most switchins. However, ithout a Life Orb to boost it's attacks, it's damage output is kinda underwhelming.
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
A Flying resist and Fighting Inmunity is very useful when Gyarados and Dragonite are running wild with their terrifing Hurricanes, as well as Vacuum Wave Kartana looming behind. Swords Dance let's it pressure frailer/weakened threats in tandem with Shadow Sneak and Gyro Ball. However, it may have problems handling mixed attackers like Boltbeam Magearna, Knock Off Meloetta in Aria form or Earth Power Diancie.
Also, I just noticed that Photon Geyser's effect doesn't make physical moves special, meaning that maybe making this could be more complicated than what I expected. Perhaps that's a good excuse to use other namesake?
Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe or 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly / Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm / Earth Power
- Protect
Diancie-M is unsurprisingly a hard mon at switchins, given that it has identical Atk & SpA. The ability to surprice physically bulky mons with special attacks and viceversa is a cool tool to have.
Magearna @ Fairium Z / Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 32 Atk / 8 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fleur Cannon / Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / Ice Beam
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind
This EV spread let's you have a superior Atk stat after a Shift Gear, very useful to deal with specially bulky mons like Chansey. On the other hand, Soul-Heart and Calm Mind let's you surprise most physical walls, like Slowbro, Landorus-T, and Will-o-Wisp users.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Charm
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
As this thing weren't unkillable enough, it also learns a move that decrease the foe's Attack stat, which means that, after enouch uses, their moves become special. Max physical defense is for Psyshock users and Keldeo.
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 16 SpD / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Curse / Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Roost
This set is designed to outspeed Modest Heatran, and hit it hard with a Technician-boosted HP Ground. It's also good against Toxapex, who most likely will run physically bulky sets & carry Haze most of the time.
Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Dance
- Hurricane
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
Oh boy, this thing is scary. Earthquake & Flamethrower will remove any relevant Steel Type, as well as other checks, while SSSS nukes everything else. The only downside is Hurricane's low accurasy, which is partially patched by Flynium Z.
Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam/Knock Off
Meloetta is probably the mon that best enbodies the term of mixed attacker. Relic Song transforms Melo from a bulky special attacker into a fast physical attacker, and thanks to this OM mechanics, it's able to exploit those changes at full, surpricing most switchins. However, ithout a Life Orb to boost it's attacks, it's damage output is kinda underwhelming.
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
A Flying resist and Fighting Inmunity is very useful when Gyarados and Dragonite are running wild with their terrifing Hurricanes, as well as Vacuum Wave Kartana looming behind. Swords Dance let's it pressure frailer/weakened threats in tandem with Shadow Sneak and Gyro Ball. However, it may have problems handling mixed attackers like Boltbeam Magearna, Knock Off Meloetta in Aria form or Earth Power Diancie.
Also, I just noticed that Photon Geyser's effect doesn't make physical moves special, meaning that maybe making this could be more complicated than what I expected. Perhaps that's a good excuse to use other namesake?
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Move Stacking
Premise: An OU based meta where, attacking moves stacks their effects with other moves. For example, if moves are Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Dazzling Gleam, then all moves will have 10% chance of either paralyze or freeze. The move effect's percentage will depend on all moves' percentage.
So it will be, (x+x)/2, (x+x+x)/3, or (x+x+x+x)/4 depending on moves with effects.
Example mon:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Bulldoze/Mud Shot
A Bulldoze/Mud Shot Lando-t set. Every attacking move will lower opponent's Speed by 1.
Darmanitan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Bulk Up
This Darmanitan set can be a wallbreaker. With LO Sheer Force boosted moves, it can break walls.
Potential Bans on Abilities: Serene Grace
Potential Bans on Moves: Nuzzle, Zap Cannon, Chatter, Dynamic Punch, Inferno, Power-Up Punch, Flame Charge, Mud Slap
Potential Bans on Pokemon: Mons that have banned abilities as their only abilities.
Metagame Threats: Moves that has 100% effects, Contrary, Simple, Sheer Force + Life Orb combo, Relic Song, Flinching moves, Multi-hit moves
Questions for the community: Should this be an OU based meta or an Uber based meta? Is it similar to Fortemons?
Premise: An OU based meta where, attacking moves stacks their effects with other moves. For example, if moves are Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Dazzling Gleam, then all moves will have 10% chance of either paralyze or freeze. The move effect's percentage will depend on all moves' percentage.
So it will be, (x+x)/2, (x+x+x)/3, or (x+x+x+x)/4 depending on moves with effects.
Example mon:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Bulldoze/Mud Shot
A Bulldoze/Mud Shot Lando-t set. Every attacking move will lower opponent's Speed by 1.
Darmanitan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Bulk Up
This Darmanitan set can be a wallbreaker. With LO Sheer Force boosted moves, it can break walls.
Potential Bans on Abilities: Serene Grace
Potential Bans on Moves: Nuzzle, Zap Cannon, Chatter, Dynamic Punch, Inferno, Power-Up Punch, Flame Charge, Mud Slap
Potential Bans on Pokemon: Mons that have banned abilities as their only abilities.
Metagame Threats: Moves that has 100% effects, Contrary, Simple, Sheer Force + Life Orb combo, Relic Song, Flinching moves, Multi-hit moves
Questions for the community: Should this be an OU based meta or an Uber based meta? Is it similar to Fortemons?
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Sample Sets:
Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Struggle Bug
A Volcarona with its moves having 53% chance of lowering opponent's SpD, lowering opponent's SpA, or increasing user's SpA by 1.
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Poison Fang
- Play Rough/Sucker Punch
This mon has its moves a chance of 40%/30% of badly poisoning the target. With Iron Head having 40% chance of flinching or badly poisoning the target if Sucker Punch is the 4th move.
Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fiery Dance
- Struggle Bug
A Volcarona with its moves having 53% chance of lowering opponent's SpD, lowering opponent's SpA, or increasing user's SpA by 1.
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Poison Fang
- Play Rough/Sucker Punch
This mon has its moves a chance of 40%/30% of badly poisoning the target. With Iron Head having 40% chance of flinching or badly poisoning the target if Sucker Punch is the 4th move.
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It's a cool idea, but this part right here is reminding me of Shared Power, which is setting off some major red flags. Just ban these moves altogether or don't ban them at all.
EDIT: also, if you define "additional effects" to mean "stuff affected by Sheer Force", then priority moves are fine.
EDIT 2: Multihit moves sound really good.
Cloyster @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Smash
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance
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This was an idea I had, I shared the basic premise a while back but I've had a chance to refine it a bit more since then.
Name: Secret Slot
Premise: Wouldn't it be cool if your Pokemon could use 5 moves? Well now it can. The final move in your Pokemon's moveslot will be passed along to the next Pokemon in line, giving them an extra move. Example:
Skarmory has Brave Bird in the final slot, so Salamence gains a very stong Flying-type STAB. Salamence has Dragon Dance in its final slot, giving Mega Heracross a way to cricumvent its average Speed - it also no longer has to run a boosting move, freeing the slot up for more coverage. Heracross has Close Combat in the final slot, letting Weavile run its favoured combination while still having a reliable way to hit bulky Steel types. Weavile gives Kyurem-B Icicle Crash, letting it have the physical Ice STAB it always wanted. It also doesn't have to run Ice Beam anymore, freeing the slot up for more coverage. It gives Fusion Bolt to Tapu Koko, so it can use its higher Attack stat. Lastly, Tapu Koko donates U-turn to Skarmory, giving it a way to scout switch ins and escape Magnezone without having to run Shed Shell.
Banlist
OU Banlist, OU Clauses
Ash-Greninja - yeah it can now have Tail Glow or Nasty Plot, as well as extra coverage.
Moves that can't be shared
Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, Spore, Geomancy
Note: Pokemon who learn these moves naturally can still use them.
Buffed Pokemon
Smeargle: donates just about anything you could ever want.
Manaphy: donates Tail Glow, appreciates the extra coverage
Salamence: appreciates getting Flying STAB, can donate Dragon Dance
Victini: donates V-create, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike and even Trick Room. Appreciates getting Ground or Fighting coverage.
Strategy
While this meta may seem very offensively inclined, actually stall can thrive here as you can give reliable recovery to stuff like Celesteela and Mega Aggron. Trick Room is also much better here, as theoretically all 6 of your Pokemon could set it up for themselves.
Q&A
How do items interract with the newly gained moves?
Same as they normally do. Z crystals will affect the newly gained moves, while you will be unable to use gained status moves if your Pokemon is holding an Assault Vest.
If the Pokemon goes down, will it still donate the moves?
Yes.
What about Hidden Power?
If passed, it will be the deafault Dark type Hidden Power unless you change the IVs. But why would you pass Hidden Power when almost everything learns it already?
Name: Secret Slot
Premise: Wouldn't it be cool if your Pokemon could use 5 moves? Well now it can. The final move in your Pokemon's moveslot will be passed along to the next Pokemon in line, giving them an extra move. Example:
Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
Salamence @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Dance
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Fusion Bolt
Tapu Koko @ Leftovers
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
Salamence @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Dance
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Fusion Bolt
Tapu Koko @ Leftovers
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn
Skarmory has Brave Bird in the final slot, so Salamence gains a very stong Flying-type STAB. Salamence has Dragon Dance in its final slot, giving Mega Heracross a way to cricumvent its average Speed - it also no longer has to run a boosting move, freeing the slot up for more coverage. Heracross has Close Combat in the final slot, letting Weavile run its favoured combination while still having a reliable way to hit bulky Steel types. Weavile gives Kyurem-B Icicle Crash, letting it have the physical Ice STAB it always wanted. It also doesn't have to run Ice Beam anymore, freeing the slot up for more coverage. It gives Fusion Bolt to Tapu Koko, so it can use its higher Attack stat. Lastly, Tapu Koko donates U-turn to Skarmory, giving it a way to scout switch ins and escape Magnezone without having to run Shed Shell.
Banlist
OU Banlist, OU Clauses
Ash-Greninja - yeah it can now have Tail Glow or Nasty Plot, as well as extra coverage.
Moves that can't be shared
Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, Spore, Geomancy
Note: Pokemon who learn these moves naturally can still use them.
Buffed Pokemon
Smeargle: donates just about anything you could ever want.
Manaphy: donates Tail Glow, appreciates the extra coverage
Salamence: appreciates getting Flying STAB, can donate Dragon Dance
Victini: donates V-create, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike and even Trick Room. Appreciates getting Ground or Fighting coverage.
Strategy
While this meta may seem very offensively inclined, actually stall can thrive here as you can give reliable recovery to stuff like Celesteela and Mega Aggron. Trick Room is also much better here, as theoretically all 6 of your Pokemon could set it up for themselves.
Q&A
How do items interract with the newly gained moves?
Same as they normally do. Z crystals will affect the newly gained moves, while you will be unable to use gained status moves if your Pokemon is holding an Assault Vest.
If the Pokemon goes down, will it still donate the moves?
Yes.
What about Hidden Power?
If passed, it will be the deafault Dark type Hidden Power unless you change the IVs. But why would you pass Hidden Power when almost everything learns it already?
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Metagame premise: All Pokemon get a Torrent/Overgrow/Blaze/Swarm ability alongside whatever other ability they're using. Their primary typing decides the type of the ability.
Potential bans and threats: Mons that get low a lot, things that like to use Endure, Pinch berries (Hitmonlee comes to mind)
Questions for the community: N/A
oops this already exists i didnt do enough research, apologies
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Lmao. This is the actual sample metagame idea in the OM submission guide.
oh im stupid, apologies, ignore that then
Wait, so its the same rules as “optimized catagories” but with the added change of moves that lower attack/special attack now corresponding to the new category? If so, you’re stepping into Pet Mod territory. It’s one thing to make a meta have an overall change, but its another to subjectively nerf a handful of moves/abilities/items/whatever purely to balance some of what that meta change did. If Overheat and Superpower are too centralizing, you would have to ban them, not inherently change the format of the OM.Ok, after some shower troughs and meditating, I decided to update some of my metagame idea, and other changes to make it more unique:
Photonic Moves (previous name: Optimised Categories).
Changes: Moves that decrease offensive stats (Overheat, Superpower, etc) now decrease the higher offensive stat of the user (Physical Overheat now decrease Attack instead of Special A.) (This is kinda hard to program into the game, but I guess will make things a bit more balanced).
Clauses: Standard OU
Banlist: Kyurem-B, Gyarados (possible unban in the future).
New question: Are the new mechanics too complicated to implement?
Also, something I discovered:
Meloetta @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
Meloetta is probably the mon that best enbodies the term of mixed attacker. Relic Song transforms Melo from a bulky special attacker into a fast physical attacker, and thanks to this OM mechanics, it's able to exploit those changes at full, surpricing most switchins. However, ithout a Life Orb to boost it's attacks, it's damage output is kinda underwhelming.
Having a few movea banned isn’t bad at all, and you can mess around with either banning the moves or the abusers to how you see fit. The old idea for Optimized Catagories is fine as is. Don’t muddle it with an extra mechanic change that is only meant to nerf a couple moves; that is what bans or suspects are for.
Yeah, I was to ask if the changes were OK, but I guess that changing a move's effect to balance out something is far too complicated. Also, Optimised Categories is renamed as Photonic Moves officially (by me) (They are the same OM). I will erase my post above and edit the original tho', as well as updating the banlist.
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You can probably wait on all immediate bans besides maybe Kyruem Black, but even then it wouldn't hurt to wait to ban anything until the meta becomes playable. Pre-playtest bans are really only meant for mechanics or mons that would obviously be broken, like how Wonder Guard / Speed Boost / Huge Power are banned from AAA because of how they can completely change the singles format around them. Overheat and co might be OP, but you can just wait and test teams yourself. It might be the case that only 1 mon is centralizing with Overheat / Draco, and in that case it be healthier to ban the mon and not the move.
I mean, while it's more spamable than Flare Blitz, it's still weaker on Charizard X because it isn't buffed by Tough Claws, and its at the scary 90% accuracy range. Furthermore, Charizard X is only a mediocre sweeper/wallbreaker in OU as of the meta right now, and it wouldn't mind the extra attack. Other users include: Victini, which already has V Create and likely won't drop that, Darminitan which has a stronger Flare Blitz with Sheer Force, and Blace which can use a physical set now with arguable effectiveness.
There's physical Draco, which I think is scarier with Garchomp, Kyruem, and DD users like Dragonite. Even then though there are still checks, has low pp, a chance to miss, and all dragons have to be weary of OU's many viable Fairy types that can now have great stabs (Physical gleam Koko / Bulu, phys Moonblast Diance, and all the other special Moonblasts). You quickbanned kyruem B, which definitely is a monster with everything considered, but it still has to deal with all the Dragon types that could be faster and revenge kill easily with Draco, the existing offensive checks that havent changed, and it's weakness to Rocks and hazards. I'm also assuming Leaf Storm is banned too? That's a bit much without a doubt, there's really not that many good physical grass types that have it to make it worth using, let a lone banning.
I'm just saying that you may want to have a "suspect" list then a ban list at this point. When it gets playable, test it out with a friend (DM me anytime!) and save the replays. That'll be the best course of action before you ban something naively.
To Serperior? Do I need to run anything else on my team?
As I know from experience playing Sketchmons V create Serperior isn’t as scary as it looks on paper. Heatran and bulky Dragon types generally work well. Of course if it turns out to be broken it’ll get the chop
Here's a team built around Blacephalon.This was an idea I had, I shared the basic premise a while back but I've had a chance to refine it a bit more since then.
Name: Secret Slot
Premise: Wouldn't it be cool if your Pokemon could use 5 moves? Well now it can. The final move in your Pokemon's moveslot will be passed along to the next Pokemon in line, giving them an extra move. Example:
Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
Salamence @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Dance
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Fusion Bolt
Tapu Koko @ Leftovers
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn
Skarmory has Brave Bird in the final slot, so Salamence gains a very stong Flying-type STAB. Salamence has Dragon Dance in its final slot, giving Mega Heracross a way to cricumvent its average Speed - it also no longer has to run a boosting move, freeing the slot up for more coverage. Heracross has Close Combat in the final slot, letting Weavile run its favoured combination while still having a reliable way to hit bulky Steel types. Weavile gives Kyurem-B Icicle Crash, letting it have the physical Ice STAB it always wanted. It also doesn't have to run Ice Beam anymore, freeing the slot up for more coverage. It gives Fusion Bolt to Tapu Koko, so it can use its higher Attack stat. Lastly, Tapu Koko donates U-turn to Skarmory, giving it a way to scout switch ins and escape Magnezone without having to run Shed Shell.
Banlist
OU Banlist, OU Clauses
Ash-Greninja - yeah it can now have Tail Glow or Nasty Plot, as well as extra coverage.
Moves that can't be shared
Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, Spore, Geomancy
Note: Pokemon who learn these moves naturally can still use them.
Buffed Pokemon
Smeargle: donates just about anything you could ever want.
Manaphy: donates Tail Glow, appreciates the extra coverage
Salamence: appreciates getting Flying STAB, can donate Dragon Dance
Victini: donates V-create, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike and even Trick Room. Appreciates getting Ground or Fighting coverage.
Strategy
While this meta may seem very offensively inclined, actually stall can thrive here as you can give reliable recovery to stuff like Celesteela and Mega Aggron. Trick Room is also much better here, as theoretically all 6 of your Pokemon could set it up for themselves.
Q&A
How do items interract with the newly gained moves?
Same as they normally do. Z crystals will affect the newly gained moves, while you will be unable to use gained status moves if your Pokemon is holding an Assault Vest.
If the Pokemon goes down, will it still donate the moves?
Yes.
What about Hidden Power?
If passed, it will be the deafault Dark type Hidden Power unless you change the IVs. But why would you pass Hidden Power when almost everything learns it already?
Keldeo-Resolute @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Secret Sword
Keldeo's main purpose is to donate Secret Sword to Blacephalon.
Blacephalon @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 232 HP / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
The star of the show. One of the big things holding Blacephalon back in OU is its complete inability to touch Tyranitar. Secret Sword fixes that.
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Defog
With Flamethrower from Blacephalon, Thundurus becomes a more offensive Zapdos. Prankster Defog is nice to keep Blacephalon safe from hazards.
Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Knock Off
Magic Bounce AND Defog? Yeah, you're not keeping up hazards against this team. Knock Off gives me an opportunity to add a physical attacker to the team.
Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- V-create
Because I already had double Defog, I decided to add another Fire type. Victini works well because it can donate V-create.
Lurantis @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
I chose Lurantis over Serperior for a few reasons. First, it's a physical attacker, so its V-creates are stronger. Second, it appreciates the speed boost much more than Serp. Whether you use Lurantis or Serp on this team, Synthesis is given to Keldeo to give it more sustain.
My thoughts on team building for this meta:
It's very awkward to try and fit both special and physical attackers on a team. You have to resort to neutral status moves like recovery or hazards, or univerally useful moves like Knock Off or Volt Switch. Physical attacking teams are probably a bit more viable than special attacking teams, as special attacking teams without Keldeo or a strong Psyshock are cucked by Chansey. Stall and Balance, on the other hand, I feel are much better in this meta, as there are a lot of bulky mons that really appreciate being donated recovery like Registeel, Suicune, Mega Aggron, and Goodra.
EDIT: Here's another team, this time built around Volcarona.
Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
Started with standard Bulkarona.
Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Refresh
- Surf
- Stored Power
Volcarona donates Quiver Dance to Mega Latias, allowing Stored Power to build power faster than Calm Mind, and also freeing up space to run Surf for Tyranitar.
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shift Gear
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
Mege Latias donates Stored Power, allowing Magearna to use the boosts from Calm Mind, Shift Gear, and Soul-Heart to blow past stuff like Toxapex and Mega Venusaur.
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Defog
Zapdos acts as the primary Defogger of the team, and recieves Ice Beam so it doesn't have to decide between Heat Wave and HP Ice.
Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Synthesis
Tapu Bulu acts as a second Defogger, and is here to beat Chansey and sponge Water and Dark attacks.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Heatran acts as the rocker of the team, and donates Earth Power to Volcarona. It also now has recovery thanks to Bulu's Synthesis.
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How about if you pass Quiver Dance to Swoobat so you get 140BP at +2 after 1 turn, or get something to pass Shell Smash to Krookodile, or maybe get Krookodile to pass Power Trip to Malamar, so that it can make full use of its Superpower boosts?
The problem with Swoobat is that it's super frail, but it's certainly a more offensively-inclined option over Mega Latias. Passing Shell Smash onto Krook would be effective if Shell Smash wasn't banned from being passed.
- Status