Middle Cup Discussion Thread

some help guys for the last spot in this team, i just threw this team together by looking at other posts etc.
Kadabra-anti lead
Magneton-steel killer
Roselia-Toxic Spiker
Gabite-CB
Porygon2-Agility late game sweeper
?
any help would be appreciated
 
Although its base stats are not as great as its evolution, Clefairy does have a couple things that make it effective. BellyEdge and CMFairy as well. Magic Guard again is a useful ability to counter and absorb status.
 
Unless I'm mistaken, Electabuzz and Kadabra are the fastest Pokemon in the tier at base 105. This makes the critical scarf speed base 54. In other words, all Scarfed pokemon with base 55 and up can outspeed all non-scarfed Pokemon. Those with 64 base and up can run +attack and outspeed all non-scarfed Pokemon.

Another interesting thing is the Steel types: only Metang and Lairon are allowed. Lairon has the rather threatening Head Smash off 90 base attack and 60/140/50 defenses. Metang has the more balanced 60/100/80 defenses, but has only a 75 base attack Meteor Mash to threaten opponents.

I would guess Shelgon > Gabite. Higher base attack and the ability to use Dragon Dance make it a force to be reckoned with. Its only downside is 50 speed, meaning it needs 2 Ddances to outspeed Kadabra and Electabuzz. Gabite has that wonderful STAB EQ, though, hitting the only two Steels in the tier for massive damage. Gabite would probably make an excellent Scarfer, too, much like Scarfchomp in OU.

For those concerned about stall, there's always Monferno. Chansey stands no chance against STAB CC, Dusclops is an opportunity to get +2, Roselia gets a Fire Blast, Wartortle gets HP Grass, etc. Pretty much the only thing to stop it is Golbat.

I think this would be a rather interesting meta. Would like to give it a try.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot Belly Drum Poliwhirl. Sub/BD/Waterfall/Return@Salac lets it OHKO everything in the metagame after it sets up, and only Scarf base 93+ outspeed it. Shame it doesn't get Aqua Jet.

Also, no Dark types in the tier at all. Great for Kadabra and Haunter.

Hmm... Nuzleaf...
and an Explosion off 70 Base Attack... not too bad.

Nuzleaf @ Focus Sash
Chlorophyll
Adamant
EVs: Max Attack and Speed

Seed Bomb / Faint Attack
Explosion
Brick Break / Low Kick / Swords Dance
Sunny Day
 
I'm sorry if this question has already been answered, (I've looked through the thread and I couldn't find it) but where exactly can middle cup be played?
 

BurningMan

fueled by beer
most people here play on cap server and ask for battles in the #middlecup irc channel.
Some people seem to play on pokemon online however i dont know on wich server theyr doing this.
 
I really think you should all invest in more productive endeavors.

(IE: I really think you should all invest in less shitty endeavors)
I think you should take your opinions elsewhere.
Why does no one ever question TC's viability but MC's is constantly threatened?
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Kadabra-anti lead Screens are good. :D Kadabra destroys Machoke even without an item boost, unlike OU Azelf v. Machamp.

Gabite-CB Choice Scarf seems better. In terms of raw power, there are better candidates and Gabite is somewhat lacking in both bulk and speed. CS better takes advantage of its STABs, and its 2 extra move slots. That is, Dragon + Ground is flawless coverage in middle cup, so you might as well use the last 2 slots for say, Dragon Rush/Dragon Claw and Stealth Rock. CS Stealth Rock may be vulnerable, but it's very easy to setup.
 
Ubers:
Rhydon

Borderline:
Porygon 2
Chansey
Dusclops
Magneton

Overused:
Haunter
Kadabra
Electabuzz
Golbat
Monferno
Marshtomp
Croconaw
Grovyle
Dragonair
Shelgon
Metang
Gabite
Seadra
Vigoroth
Pikachu
Piloswine
Roselia

Borderline:
Magmar
Lairon
Sealeo
Wartortle
Prinplup
Grotle
Machoke
Togetic
Pupitar
Nuzleaf
Vibrava

Underused:
Bayleef
Ivysaur
Flaaffy
Luxio
Staravia
Charmeleon
Quilava
Combusken
Lombre
Gloom
Graveler
Poliwhirl
Nidorina
Nidorino
Loudred
Jigglypuff
Clefairy
Pidgeotto
Skiploom

Neverused:
Kirlia
Marill
Metapod
Kakuna
Silcoon
Cascoon

My Tier List :3

Rhydon is banned.
It might have counters, but so did Garchomp and Salamence.
 
petrie911;2911943 Another interesting thing is the Steel types: only Metang and Lairon are allowed. [/QUOTE said:
Don't forget Magneton.

Rhydon is banned.
It might have counters, but so did Garchomp and Salamence.
I disagree with this tier list. Ivysaur would be OU before Roselia, imho. Also, the reason Chomp and Mence were banned is because of the fact they DID NOT HAVE COUNTERS. You saying they did proves you don't have have enough credibility to make a tier list for this "metagame".
 

Oglemi

best birb
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
^But that's not MC, thats a NFE tier. This one only consists of middle evoultions and doesn't consist of single-stage evolutions. It's different.
 
Yeah, I should point out that we (I'm an admin there) use fully unevolved things too, like Magnemite or Teddiursa or whatever, but I don't see why we couldn't join the two metagames together, unless being Level 50 does cool things with the EV system.
 
true, however it should be understood that seems as all fully evolved pokemon are banned in the NFE tier also, the system is extremely similar, and the testing done in the NFE tier to find things such as electabuzz kadabra magneton chansey magmar porygon2 etc as broken in the game are going to save a lot of time in this tier.
In all honesty most things that didn't have something evolve into them, are not as great in play as things that did, it also means that the really playable things in the tier such as misdreavus and cubone will be banned in this tier which is quite a shame. But I won't question the whole idea, I just rather enjoy NFE
 
From what I know in Middle Cup, Rhydon isn't broken. Lots of common things kill it, Monferno, Gabite, Marshtomp, etc. There are even things that I think do a better job like Lairon because it resists dragon, ghost, dark, and psychic, which Rhydon dosen't. It also gets Head Smash, which is more powerful than Rhydon + Stone Edge. Rock Head stops recoil, and only fighting and ground types stop it. Fighting and Ground types stop Rhydon at the same time, so not much is changed. Graveler is just Rhydon with lower stats and explosion.
 
Rhydon is banned.
It might have counters, but so did Garchomp and Salamence.
First off, a tier list not based off usage really shouldn't be using the OU/UU/NU wordage, but that's pandantics and I more say that as a general statement to anyone.

But, Rhydon aint broke, bro. Yes, unless you have a dedicated Rhydon counter, he is going to kill something, but he can't sweep at all. Both sets(RP/Sub) have the same checks/counters, and are weak to 90% of the tier. Honest-to-god, I worry more about Gon2 than Rhydon, because Gon2 can go mixed(base 80 is good in MC), has a far-and-away better ability, can take hits on both sides of the spectrum, and can boost his speed too.

@Lambert: Just as Roserade is OU and Venusaur is UU in normal battles, in MC Roselia is better than Ivysaur since it has access to (T)Spikes, while also being the only pokemon who can use them. The 5 speed is important, too because it means it can outspeed the base 60s(Gon2, really). It's leaf storm hurts more, too, but that's kinda of a non-factor.

EDIT: @NFE Guys: We know that NFE is similar to MC, but, no, we do not want to play NFE, we wanna play MC. Unless something drastic happens, I think you guy's struggle is in vein. Thank you for being non-militant about unlike the guys on CAP though.
 
Yeah, I should point out that we (I'm an admin there) use fully unevolved things too, like Magnemite or Teddiursa or whatever, but I don't see why we couldn't join the two metagames together, unless being Level 50 does cool things with the EV system.
If NFE was played at Lv50 and didn't ban already tiered Pokemon, I would play it instead. The inclusion of a few more threats (Scyther, Sneasel) cannot hurt.

BTW, in Shoddy, 4 to 8 EVs give you 1 stat point at Lv50. You gain 2 stat points if you put 16 EVs in one stat, while you can gain 4 stat points if you divide it between 4 stats.
 
But at this rate, Rhydon is going to be used more than Kyogre in Ubers.

Weavile/Mamoswine with a Strong/Fast Ice Shard/Ice Punch kill them. Them as in the two Banned Dragons. HP Ice from something like Jolteon also is good.

Don't forget, even Meditite is banned in Little Cup.
 
Groshi, why the fuck can you not tell the difference between a counter and a check?

Seriously, just ignore the retard and go have fun in Middle Cup, guys.
 
Please don't Flame People. This is a discussion, not a Insulting contest. i am merely stating my viewpoint.

And Rhydon is Broken in Middle Cup. It does have glaring Double Weaknesses which are quite common, I agree. Marshtomp is quite a good counter to it, being faster, and having a not so bad offensive Stat combination. However, if Rhydon gets the chance to attack in Middle Cup, it will wreck through everything; therefore, adding a Focus Sash on it, or even a weakness-reducing berry would help it survive. The high defense Pokemon in the tier either have really low HP or are severely weak to Rhydon's attacks. If Rhydon switches in on something that will switch out like Golbat, it gets a free turn to Rock Polish or Subsitute, and a survivng item isn't even needed.

Rhydon is significant is the Middle Cup, for sure. It does have bad problems, but overall it is too good to compete with the others.

Thanks for reading.
 
Yes, Rhydon is strong. And yes, it has counters. NOT CHECKS. Counters. For one, porygon2 outspeeds and ohkoes with ice beam. Scarf Gabite, EQ. Marshtomp, waterfall, EQ. Roselia, Leaf Storm/Energy Ball. Rhydon is not the Garchomp/Mence of MC. He is more like Heatran: Powerful, used a lot, but very susceptible to common stuff.
 
But at this rate, Rhydon is going to be used more than Kyogre in Ubers.

Weavile/Mamoswine with a Strong/Fast Ice Shard/Ice Punch kill them. Them as in the two Banned Dragons. HP Ice from something like Jolteon also is good.

Don't forget, even Meditite is banned in Little Cup.
Revenge killers =/= Counters.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top