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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
- Thread starter reachzero
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They gave him every move because they love him and continue to buff him every generation. And also because he needs to shine as a psuedo legendary who isn't a dragon (poor metagross...).
Personally, I could do without everyone, their mother, their family, their dog, and their grandmother running specially defensive mixed tyranitar. For a pokemon with so much variety, all I see is the same thing on him. It gets old quickly, but thankfully its incredibly easy to take advantage of.
Personally, I could do without everyone, their mother, their family, their dog, and their grandmother running specially defensive mixed tyranitar. For a pokemon with so much variety, all I see is the same thing on him. It gets old quickly, but thankfully its incredibly easy to take advantage of.
Endeavor TR Solosis? I gotta try that sometime. Also Endeavor Aron is a bitch if you can't keep hazards off the field (or if you don't use them at all) but it's probably not that hard to take out, and I'm still sitting at like 857 rating so yeah (this is why I should make alts).
As for Blaziken, sweet Jesus. Really hard to stop if it manages to get that SD up in the Sun. Latios makes a really shitty check 'cause he gets outsped and takes hits like a chump (I don't think he can even switch into Flare Blitz without taking like 3/4ths of its HP in damage). In fact I find sun teams far more infuriating than rain teams at the moment. Ninetales don't die as easy as it should and Darmanitan's Flare Blitzes are hard to take. I can't say it's broken but definitely super strong.
Focus Sash + Magic Guard. At least you're not ruined by entry hazards.
About Thundurus, Raikou is a really good switch-in. Once it gets Volt Absorb, it'll be even better (but it's pretty good now).
And there lies in adaptability. Specially Defensive and BOAH Tyranitar variants are surprisingly easy to set up on.
As for Thundurus? Mamoswine, and pretty much every competitive Electric-type out there except for Rotom-W and Zapdos makes a relatively good switch-in to both Nasty Plot and Mischevious Heart Abus Thundurus. Can't wait until Mamoswine's good moves are actually legal with Thick Fat so it can insult BoltBeamers even more.
As for Thundurus? Mamoswine, and pretty much every competitive Electric-type out there except for Rotom-W and Zapdos makes a relatively good switch-in to both Nasty Plot and Mischevious Heart Abus Thundurus. Can't wait until Mamoswine's good moves are actually legal with Thick Fat so it can insult BoltBeamers even more.
![Requiem[9]](/forums/data/avatars/m/38/38887.jpg?1514734517){kind=avatar}
Well, I can't say anything definitively since I have no idea how to do calcs without the fancy Smogon calculator but when I was using sun, my Mixkin could 2HKO (~60%) most Slowbro on the switch with Fire Blast. Mine was Rash and Surf never did more than 50%. Slowking's not great because it can't take hits from the more common physical variant so we're down to the "is it DD or is it mix" game again and you're losing pokemon even if you guess right. Regeneration lets you preserve your Slowbro but most good sun teams try to get SR + Spikes and you're still losing half your team trying to get the right matchups, making it tough to keep Venusaur or Sawsbuck from sweeping. Slowbro does fine in other weather, but if Slowbro is on every team because of Blaziken, it's not having a positive effect on the metagame.
Much more than its lack of counters though, the problem with Blaziken is that you can't even check it, really, only counter it. On most teams, I can deal with dragons, Terakions, and Landlos just by having pokemon who are faster, playing so they can't easily set up speed, and sacrificing the right pokemon. I don't need to say "this pokemon is for Terakion" or "this pokemon is for Latios", I can get around them with the random pokemon on my team if I play well. Wifi Clause is a big reason why I don't think any of those pokemon are even close to broken, although powerful, because you know they're coming and you know what you can afford to lose against the rest of their team. You can save the pokemon that threaten them and make predicts to take momentum. This isn't the case with Blaziken. With Protect, you actually can't stop it from setting up. Similarly, when you sacrifice pokemon to get your counter in, they're racking up speed. There are absolutely no pokemon who are faster than it, especially if you've got Protect to get the second or third Speed Boost on command. If you don't have a Slowbro or Jellicent, then you can't really use any pokemon that Blaziken basically threatens and even if you compromise your team by having one (that's not to say that either is a bad pokemon by any means, but they clearly don't belong on every team), you can find yourself in a lot of marginal situations. If you don't, you're almost always on the very verge of losing.
I'm still not sure, but after a bit more playing, I find myself more and more opposed to these hyperfast pokemon that are impossible to outspeed and require a bulky counter.
Slowbro on a sun team has purposes outside of just countering Blaziken, such as spreading status, checking enemy fighting types if need be (Outside of Starmie, no respectable water type should be using a water type move against Blaziken. I use Psychic against him), taking care of Ferrothorn and friends with a sun boosted fire blast, and being bulky enough to handle most physical dragons. Slowking, I admit is not as useful due to the lack of physcial bulk, but specially defensive ones can serve their purpose if the need ever arrives. Slowking turns Zapdos and Gengar into setup fodder. If the need ever arrives and mixken becomes more popular than his physical variants, then he may serve a role.
For the second part of your post, I can't say I fully agree. While speed boost keeps you from outrunning Blaziken and revenging it with something faster as you would do with most other pokemon, wouldn't you play wisely once you see it in the team preview? When I see that thing, I prepare to play around it even when Slowbro is not on my team. This usually entails setting up with a pokemon blaziken can't safely come in and boost on, or immeadiately running to a scarfer who can take an unboosted hit (Scarf Tentacruel works well due unless you run into a mixed set, sadly or unless Blaze is on a sun team). Stalling for LO recoil usually keeps Blaziken from sweeping the entire team and reduces your casualties to one or two pokemon at most. I recently battled one person who subbed down with MH Whimsicott solely to get me into KO range of Guts Conkeldurr's mach punch. Admittedly, this failed, since I saw what my opponent was doing after the second substitute and just switched Blaze out. But my opponent was able to put an end to my Blaziken sweep at least without losing the entirety of their team.
I'm not a huge fan of the fast and powerful sweepers and hard hitters in this metagame that require most teams to take into consideration, "Either I lose, or I have a plan to get around X once he shows up", but that seems to be the metagame.
For the second part of your post, I can't say I fully agree. While speed boost keeps you from outrunning Blaziken and revenging it with something faster as you would do with most other pokemon, wouldn't you play wisely once you see it in the team preview? When I see that thing, I prepare to play around it even when Slowbro is not on my team. This usually entails setting up with a pokemon blaziken can't safely come in and boost on, or immeadiately running to a scarfer who can take an unboosted hit (Scarf Tentacruel works well due unless you run into a mixed set, sadly or unless Blaze is on a sun team). Stalling for LO recoil usually keeps Blaziken from sweeping the entire team and reduces your casualties to one or two pokemon at most. I recently battled one person who subbed down with MH Whimsicott solely to get me into KO range of Guts Conkeldurr's mach punch. Admittedly, this failed, since I saw what my opponent was doing after the second substitute and just switched Blaze out. But my opponent was able to put an end to my Blaziken sweep at least without losing the entirety of their team.
I'm not a huge fan of the fast and powerful sweepers and hard hitters in this metagame that require most teams to take into consideration, "Either I lose, or I have a plan to get around X once he shows up", but that seems to be the metagame.
Well, I don't care as much about variants without Protect since it's really hard for them to get the speed to beat Doryuuzu and Sawsbuck. But, a well-played Blaziken with Protect negates play to keep it from setting up and while sweeping through it is an option, it's not really a solution. Most Blaziken with Protect run enough speed to beat Garchomp at +2, so sending in a Scarfer isn't so much an option. Even if it was, there are not very many pokemon who can comfortably take a hit from Blaziken. Scarf Tentacruel is an option, I guess, but... Fire Blast in the sun does 51-60% and 35-40% without weather while Tentacruel is neutral to SR and vulnerable to Spikes and being locked into Surf or Sludge Bomb isn't the best idea with dragons and Doryuuzu running around. Immediately sending in a pokemon like Sawsbuck is an option against Protect variants, but that's just a coin toss with prediction. Similarly, teams without MH Whimsicott are not going to be able to stall out LO recoil without switching around and if that's the best a team without a hard counter can do against a sweeper, that's a rather bad sign. I mean, yeah, I've beaten loads of teams with Blaziken and I understand that if you plan really elaborately, you can beat it. But, at the same time, when I play Blaziken, I am constantly in 50-50 situations no matter how well I play. Not only that, with two priority users and Spikes + SR, my team's unusually good against Blaziken. Similarly, when the two paths you can take against a sweeper are "sac two pokemon and let it kill itself with LO" or "have Slowbro on your team", that's not a great sign either. The 1-2 pokemon claim is really understated, because only teams that are really well prepared for Blaziken are going to contain it with the loss of only 1-2 pokemon. Also, yeah:
This.
With every normal sweeper, it's, "Either I lose, or I have a plan to get around it." I am okay with that. That is pokemon, that is why I play this game. With sweepers like Doryuuzu and Venusaur, it's more like, "Either my counter is still alive, or I lose." The only "plan" that works is having a pokemon to sac so a check can come in. Moreover, the checks are pokemon like Azumarill that aren't even particularly good. And when that happens, you still have to make a 50-50 prediction to not lose or not lose so much momentum that you might as well have, because how many big threats can shake Aqua Jet off. While this is also true with things like Scarf Jirachi, the fact that things like DDMence need a turn to set up is huge when it comes to room for prediction, because the turn needed to set up naturally concedes momentum and the user is forced to choose between the speed to beat, say, Garchomp and damaging the Scarfer. Even if the Salamence user initially has the advantage, it's relatively easy for the advantage to shift. Certainly not the case with Doryuuzu or Blaziken.
Might as well:
Ninetales / Blaziken / Porygon2 / Garchomp / ?? / Sawsbuck
Garchomp is the defensive "Chomp Tank" variant. For some reason, I had Fire Fang on it when Fire Blast is stronger even with Jolly -.- I've had Vaporeon, Forretress and Starmie, and now I'm trying a random Mew set. Sawsbuck is there because I just got tired of Heatran/Blissey/Dragons stopping Venusaur and making it not worth the setup effort at all.
I'm not sure I can really say what I'm really weak against other than that it seems like "everything". I suspect that a large part of it is that I play really badly for some reason when I use the team. As a sun team, it's easy to be pressured into getting the momentum going as soon as possible, and then the team either tires out or is already too overwhelmed by the opponent to do anything.
Ninetales / Blaziken / Porygon2 / Garchomp / ?? / Sawsbuck
Garchomp is the defensive "Chomp Tank" variant. For some reason, I had Fire Fang on it when Fire Blast is stronger even with Jolly -.- I've had Vaporeon, Forretress and Starmie, and now I'm trying a random Mew set. Sawsbuck is there because I just got tired of Heatran/Blissey/Dragons stopping Venusaur and making it not worth the setup effort at all.
I'm not sure I can really say what I'm really weak against other than that it seems like "everything". I suspect that a large part of it is that I play really badly for some reason when I use the team. As a sun team, it's easy to be pressured into getting the momentum going as soon as possible, and then the team either tires out or is already too overwhelmed by the opponent to do anything.
On Sun teams, I feel you really shouldn't be dedicating spots to entirely defensive pokemon. I suspect that's why you're finding building momentum difficult, since it dies every time you send out P2. I'd drop it, make your Garchomp some kind of offensive variant if you still want it, and possible replacements are Wobbuffet, D-S, Forretress, Venusaur, Scizor, or some random attacker like Heatran. If don't pick Forretress for either of the spots, I'd recommend having Venusaur somewhere, since Sun's really weak to Toxic Spikes without it. It's the most common sweeper less because its sweeping capabilities than its typing, I feel. Sun's strong enough with its standard setups that I don't think fancy variants are worthwhile -- having impossibly fast sweepers already checks most things with aggressive play.
if you run hp fire,sludge bomb and eq you don't get walled by heatran and dragons,except hetran with balloon.
Sun's biggest problem, and one of the reasons I and many others find it not broken is that its inducer is so frail, and it is largely beaten by all other weathers, save hail. I find that most sun teams should carry a Dugtrio simply because it beats Tyranitar, who is frequently a sand team's only inducer, outright and steals your opponent's control over the weather, many times effectively winning you the game
I used dugtrio in fourth gen OU when I attempted to actually use sun there (friggin rofl). It was terrible. Choice Band Dugtrio can't reliably kill tyranitar. It deals around 70% with earthquake to even the non bulky variants. This wouldn't be so bad if dugtrio couldn't even switch in on the guy. He dies to a resisted stone edge, etc. You're usually sending Duggy in after something dies. So at this point, you've lost two pokemon just to hinder tyranitar? And even if he were good against t-tar, he is useless against the other four weather starters. He can't harm Hippo, Politoed laughs at him, and even abomasnow fears nothing and can kill him with priority. Dugtio's only merit was killing Vulpix in Pokemon Online's UU tier. And guess what? He couldn't even do that. He couldn't switch in without dying. And even when he could, Vulpix began carrying a balloon just to shrug him off. Using Dugtrio on a sun team is a waste of a pokemon slot.
Venusaur isn't walled by any non uber dragons when running sludge bomb with a LO and growth, and with a modest nature, he can hit enough speed to outrun +speed deo-S and scarfchomp (can go timid for scarf latis and such). When usuing him, you can simply carry another pokemon to deal with the 3-4 things that wall him. I currently have him teamed with Blaziken, since Blaziken does not care for Heatran, Blissey, or Chandelure. Terakion is another good partner. As is Scrafty. Or any other fighting type. The shared flying weakness is neglible, but if it bothers you, then steel types such as Jirachi (who does wonders for sun teams, I might add) have you covered. With team preview, using Venusaur simply means you'll avoid setting up if your opponent has a heatran. And since so few things stop him, finding partners is relatively easy.
I'll also have to agree with requiem that P2 does very little for sun teams, but I will disagree on the subject of sun being unable to run dedicated walls. In my earlier days, I found that my sun team was ruined by the likes of Cm Reuniclus. So I began carrying the likes of CM/Wish Jirachi to deal with him. When I still ran Victreebel over Venusaur, I found out that dragons gave me issues, so I started running CM Cresselia. If need be, sun can easily dedicate one slot to a bulky tank in order to keep the momentum in their favor, usually something that covers an error and can contribute to the rest of the team. I was even able to make Shiftry of all things work, just by running him alongside Shandera!
So Capefeather, I would say to make Bulky chomp into a Yachechomp. Ditch Porygon2 for the likes of Jirachi, Heatran or whatever, and try to fit a venusaur on that team or another good sun sweeper.
I think priority is just going to wind up being almost necessary in this metagame to stop some threats. If Blaziken is using protect by the way, then he either isn't using Sword's Dance, is mixed, or only has two attacks. It's easier to play around him then, while you can also play in a way to keep him from ever getting that sword's dance up.
While what you say might be true, Requiem, I will still have to say this applies to most sweepers this gen. WIthout playing elaborately, I often had trouble with Excadrill on my weatherless teams when I didn't always want to save room for a Bronzong or Skarmory.
Venusaur isn't walled by any non uber dragons when running sludge bomb with a LO and growth, and with a modest nature, he can hit enough speed to outrun +speed deo-S and scarfchomp (can go timid for scarf latis and such). When usuing him, you can simply carry another pokemon to deal with the 3-4 things that wall him. I currently have him teamed with Blaziken, since Blaziken does not care for Heatran, Blissey, or Chandelure. Terakion is another good partner. As is Scrafty. Or any other fighting type. The shared flying weakness is neglible, but if it bothers you, then steel types such as Jirachi (who does wonders for sun teams, I might add) have you covered. With team preview, using Venusaur simply means you'll avoid setting up if your opponent has a heatran. And since so few things stop him, finding partners is relatively easy.
I'll also have to agree with requiem that P2 does very little for sun teams, but I will disagree on the subject of sun being unable to run dedicated walls. In my earlier days, I found that my sun team was ruined by the likes of Cm Reuniclus. So I began carrying the likes of CM/Wish Jirachi to deal with him. When I still ran Victreebel over Venusaur, I found out that dragons gave me issues, so I started running CM Cresselia. If need be, sun can easily dedicate one slot to a bulky tank in order to keep the momentum in their favor, usually something that covers an error and can contribute to the rest of the team. I was even able to make Shiftry of all things work, just by running him alongside Shandera!
So Capefeather, I would say to make Bulky chomp into a Yachechomp. Ditch Porygon2 for the likes of Jirachi, Heatran or whatever, and try to fit a venusaur on that team or another good sun sweeper.
I think priority is just going to wind up being almost necessary in this metagame to stop some threats. If Blaziken is using protect by the way, then he either isn't using Sword's Dance, is mixed, or only has two attacks. It's easier to play around him then, while you can also play in a way to keep him from ever getting that sword's dance up.
While what you say might be true, Requiem, I will still have to say this applies to most sweepers this gen. WIthout playing elaborately, I often had trouble with Excadrill on my weatherless teams when I didn't always want to save room for a Bronzong or Skarmory.
Wouldn't Wobb be the problem then? He's the one making it so easy for Blaze to sweep.(Even though it's not that easy...)
I had a few calcs done with Thundurus, but...something happened and they're not appearing on my post O.o
Basically, nothing is safe from Thundurus.
Be it a Nasty Plot variant or a LO Variant with T-Wave, nothing is safe.
SD + Protect versions have horrible coverage.
Chandelure and Jellicent are two mons that would easily stop those versions.
People are exaggerating.
Blaziken in Sun still sweeps far too easily even without Wobb, Slowbro is literally the only thing that stops SD + Protect versions. You cant even revenge kill it and Flare Blitz kills even resists like Lati@s and Salamence (after Intimidate with SR up) and you dont even need a LO for that. Id actually say its Speed Boost or just flat out sun that makes it broken. Wobb is just the icing on the cake as i said before.
While I admit Dugtrio is far from an ideal solution to the monster that is Tyranitar, it is at the very least one of the few most consistent ones. Without max Attack Evs on Ttar, Trio can switch in on Stone Edge, trap, and KO any weakened Tyranitar. This ability alone makes it absolutely vital on many sun teams
Sd+Protect versions on sun teams aren't walled by jellicient, Kefka.
The ability to KO a weakened t-tar and not do much else aside from that is not what sun teams should be looking for. I've seen a few sun teams that carry conkeldurr and he does the job just fine, and then some. As the current popular Tyranitar set is mixed specially defensive Tyranitar, dugtrio is doing even less than normal since he's fighting a bulky variant. And now, the only move on Tyranitar's moveset that he can switch into is Stealth Rock. I would rather use adamant Choice Band Trapinch (who has higher base attack, funny enough).
Outside of the fighting types I keep naming, sun has several options to dispose of Tyranitar. Outside of Ninetales, he can't switch into anything sun teams usually carry without being hurt badly. He can't even switch into the fire types.
Arcanine? Close combat
Flareon? Superpower
Rapidash? Low Kick
Darminitan? Superpower
And half of that list are pokemon people don't actually use.
Simply abuse the fact that your opponent is going to cradle Tyranitar and keep him alive at all costs until Ninetales is dead and you'll get far. Lay down hazards to keep him on his toes. Burn him with will-o-wisp so that he ends up losing the 1/4th of his health from switchins with burn+stealth rock. And carry a spinner so that Ninetales' switch in options aren't so limited.
The ability to KO a weakened t-tar and not do much else aside from that is not what sun teams should be looking for. I've seen a few sun teams that carry conkeldurr and he does the job just fine, and then some. As the current popular Tyranitar set is mixed specially defensive Tyranitar, dugtrio is doing even less than normal since he's fighting a bulky variant. And now, the only move on Tyranitar's moveset that he can switch into is Stealth Rock. I would rather use adamant Choice Band Trapinch (who has higher base attack, funny enough).
Outside of the fighting types I keep naming, sun has several options to dispose of Tyranitar. Outside of Ninetales, he can't switch into anything sun teams usually carry without being hurt badly. He can't even switch into the fire types.
Arcanine? Close combat
Flareon? Superpower
Rapidash? Low Kick
Darminitan? Superpower
And half of that list are pokemon people don't actually use.
Simply abuse the fact that your opponent is going to cradle Tyranitar and keep him alive at all costs until Ninetales is dead and you'll get far. Lay down hazards to keep him on his toes. Burn him with will-o-wisp so that he ends up losing the 1/4th of his health from switchins with burn+stealth rock. And carry a spinner so that Ninetales' switch in options aren't so limited.
Imo, aside from relying on prediction to double-switch in something that can OHKO or catch him on the switch-in, the most reliable way to rid yourself of TTar as Sun are hazards, since he has no reliable recovery and the thing most likely to be Wishpassing to him shares his Fighting weakness (Blissey). He's vulnerable to all 3, and doesn't resist SR, letting you wear it down every time it has to come in quite significantly.
Dugtrio has nothing on hazards in terms of disposing of TTar given the generalised uses they have outside of helping you out with him, which makes them excellent for Sun teams compared to Trio's incredibly limited uses.
EDIT: Ninja'd
Sd+Protect versions on sun teams aren't walled by jellicient, Kefka.
The ability to KO a weakened t-tar and not do much else aside from that is not what sun teams should be looking for. I've seen a few sun teams that carry conkeldurr and he does the job just fine, and then some. As the current popular Tyranitar set is mixed specially defensive Tyranitar, dugtrio is doing even less than normal since he's fighting a bulky variant. And now, the only move on Tyranitar's moveset that he can switch into is Stealth Rock. I would rather use adamant Choice Band Trapinch (who has higher base attack, funny enough).
Outside of the fighting types I keep naming, sun has several options to dispose of Tyranitar. Outside of Ninetales, he can't switch into anything sun teams usually carry without being hurt badly. He can't even switch into the fire types.
Arcanine? Close combat
Flareon? Superpower
Rapidash? Low Kick
Darminitan? Superpower
And half of that list are pokemon people don't actually use.
Simply abuse the fact that your opponent is going to cradle Tyranitar and keep him alive at all costs until Ninetales is dead and you'll get far. Lay down hazards to keep him on his toes. Burn him with will-o-wisp so that he ends up losing the 1/4th of his health from switchins with burn+stealth rock. And carry a spinner so that Ninetales' switch in options aren't so limited.
I still maintain that the most threatening thing to sun teams is a kingdra with rain dance in it's moveset.
The ability to KO a weakened t-tar and not do much else aside from that is not what sun teams should be looking for. I've seen a few sun teams that carry conkeldurr and he does the job just fine, and then some. As the current popular Tyranitar set is mixed specially defensive Tyranitar, dugtrio is doing even less than normal since he's fighting a bulky variant. And now, the only move on Tyranitar's moveset that he can switch into is Stealth Rock. I would rather use adamant Choice Band Trapinch (who has higher base attack, funny enough).
Outside of the fighting types I keep naming, sun has several options to dispose of Tyranitar. Outside of Ninetales, he can't switch into anything sun teams usually carry without being hurt badly. He can't even switch into the fire types.
Arcanine? Close combat
Flareon? Superpower
Rapidash? Low Kick
Darminitan? Superpower
And half of that list are pokemon people don't actually use.
Simply abuse the fact that your opponent is going to cradle Tyranitar and keep him alive at all costs until Ninetales is dead and you'll get far. Lay down hazards to keep him on his toes. Burn him with will-o-wisp so that he ends up losing the 1/4th of his health from switchins with burn+stealth rock. And carry a spinner so that Ninetales' switch in options aren't so limited.
I still maintain that the most threatening thing to sun teams is a kingdra with rain dance in it's moveset.
I'd really rather just have a somewhat acceptable revenger than have to set up hazards. Unless Ttar switches in 8 times (not to mention many, if not most, Ttars carry Lefties), you won't really be able to do much to him
1)Dugtrio traps Ttar. That is why he is preferrable to some other ground-type scarfers. I am well aware of the fact his attack is low.
2)Things like Conkeldurr do not trap Ttar, and can dealt with by other members of sand teams, like Landorosu
3)Pretty much all of those pokes are ones that people don't use. Flareon will never be seen on a sun team, and Darmanitan is completely destroyed by sand teams, despite his massive power.
4)Burning things is not easy WHEN THEY CAN SWITCH OUT.
Outside of Stealth Rock, there are few practical ways to take down Tyranitar consistently. Dugtrio is one of those ways. That's all I am saying.
Without hazards, Blaziken can no longer reliably kill Hippowdon in one hit with a +2 Hi Jump kick, Venusaur will find himself missing KOs on the lati twins, and Sawsbuck will stupidly fail to scratch Garchomp and Terakion with Double Edge or Wood Horn respectively. Sun needs hazards. If you ask me, all teams need them. You're sadly handicapping yourself if you don't have a way to set up stealth rock on your team. Specs Latios switches in for free. The few people who actually use Yanmega get away with doing so. And dragons become that much harder to take down.
Hazards are not the only things that sun teams use to take own Blaziken.
Alphatron sent out Forretress!
Opponent sent out Tyranitar!
Alphatron switched to Shadowfax! (Rapidash)
Tyranitar used Fire Blast! Rapidash' flash fire activates!
Rapidash used Low Kick!
Tyranitar fainted
And this is all on a joke team. Happened about five times today alone, which was every time I saw a sand team. Save for that one time Tyranitar used Earthquake, but my Rapidash is on a balloon anyway.
Sorry about the double post by the way, my internet is acting up horribly. I rag on Duggy hard because as much as I like the pokemon, he just isn't worth it. He's actually more of a threat against sun teams, proven by a majority of UU players on PO running him to trap Vulpix before sun was banned.
Hazards are not the only things that sun teams use to take own Blaziken.
Alphatron sent out Forretress!
Opponent sent out Tyranitar!
Alphatron switched to Shadowfax! (Rapidash)
Tyranitar used Fire Blast! Rapidash' flash fire activates!
Rapidash used Low Kick!
Tyranitar fainted
And this is all on a joke team. Happened about five times today alone, which was every time I saw a sand team. Save for that one time Tyranitar used Earthquake, but my Rapidash is on a balloon anyway.
Sorry about the double post by the way, my internet is acting up horribly. I rag on Duggy hard because as much as I like the pokemon, he just isn't worth it. He's actually more of a threat against sun teams, proven by a majority of UU players on PO running him to trap Vulpix before sun was banned.
Well, considering most Tales carry WoW for the main purpose of Burning TTar on the switchin so they don't get raped by Pursuit, he'll often be taking more than just SR. Spikes are not too hard to throw down one at a time, especially if you use Ferro/Forry in conjunction with something that's immune to fire. Often, after the first switchin TTar will be taking 25%+ excluding whatever move it comes into, severely hindering its switchins. If you can keep SR off the field Tales will often be able to survive longer than this with ease.
If Duggy could reliably OHKO TTar and switch in just once I may consider using him, but as he cannot, he is in no way more consistent than getting hazards down, which you likewise may not be able to pull off. Given that packing WoW+SR and maybe spikes is more use than Duggy is a lot of the time, I'd much rather use them. Anyway, this is off-topic, since noone's nominating Duggy...
So anyway, imo, Blaziken isn't broken, even in Sun. I run Sun as my main and hence have to deal with it with boosted Flare Blitzes whenever I see one. The key to beating it really is priority - with LO and Flare Blitz recoil, potential misses from HJK due to ghost/protect, hazards and potential status, its survivability is very poor and its health drains fast if you predict right. Saccing something with high health to a FB is a good way to get it in range for priority if all else fails. This gen Priority seems likely to prove almost as valuable as Scarfs for revenging, and just because that typical way of beating fast things won't work VS blaz doesn't mean it's broken.
If you don't want to pack priority, pack a weather changer and a hard counter, or make sure none of your team is utter setup fodder (T-Wave on Ferro, etc). There are several pretty broad options to dealing with Blaziken, so to me it seems just like a top-tier threat, albeit a strange and unfamiliar type of one due to Speed boost.
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