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Official MLB 2012 Season Thread

As soon as Monday comes in Yahoo sports (since I already used my player adds for the week) I'll be adding him, WAY to good to pass up.

Also, Anthony Rizzo will finally be slugging for the cubbies (hopefully) Tuesday against Arizona, so I picked him up hoping that the cubbies will bring him up.
 
bwebber said:
He's 25 and has never had an extended stay in the big leagues. That is NOT a #3 starter. His ceiling at this point is a #4/5 or setup man.
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Scouting report was from Toronto time but pitcher development tends to be even more sporadic than position player development.

His stock on down, but the talent that made people state that as the ceiling a couple of years ago hasn't disappeared, it's just less and less likely that it comes together with the age. Ceiling doesn't really disappear, but the probably of it coming together does.
 
moi said:
Scouting report was from Toronto time but pitcher development tends to be even more sporadic than position player development.

His stock on down, but the talent that made people state that as the ceiling a couple of years ago hasn't disappeared, it's just less and less likely that it comes together with the age. Ceiling doesn't really disappear, but the probably of it coming together does.
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Uhhh no. Ceiling isn't, "if he can develop 50 plus pitches," and age is one of the biggest factors for players. Otherwise every single player would have the same ceiling, which just isn't true. The older you get with no improvement, like what Stewart has done, the lower your ceiling gets.*
 
He's 25... you're playing it as if he's 30. There's still some developmental room and you didn't address the part about pitchers having developmental curves that are far less consistent than position players.

I never said what ceiling was, and you have the undeniable belief that you are right in every situation without any room for budging. To be honest, many analysts of the game have an incredibly big beef with ceiling decreasing with age directly in the way you've said it. That logic is obviously flawed when applied for prospects, who develop their skills. Their bodies aren't on the decline at 25, so their talent isn't either. I can't see how you can argue otherwise. They are LESS likely to get it together, at a potentially exponential rate, yes, but they still have the talent until their body deteriorates. Argue that ceiling deteriorates past the age, fine, but 25 is still accepted as the late blooming age of prospects. It happens.

Jesus, I'm not saying he will, but flat out denying it is just as ignorant as the ignorance you're heaping onto me.
 
Effin Nats. After last nights game I was swearing up a storm about how the Johnson had to do SOMETHING to get these bats going. Give Zim rest. Move Morse to 6 so he's under less pressure. Get Tyler Moore in there everyday.

Now they have 12 Runs off 20 Hits after 8 innings. Zim is 3/5 with 3 R and 1 RBI. Morse is 4/5 with 2 R and 2 RBI. Of course Moore is 2/5 with 1 R and 3 RBI so I was right about that. Desmond 4/5 with 2 RBI as well.

So now they won't make any changes and the bats will die again and we'll lose games 2-1. We'd be like 5 games out of first place right now if the NL East wasn't slumping at the same time as us.
 
BiGGiE said:
You have a wiffle ball TEAM? That's a thing? I want to be on a wiffle ball team :o
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Beings that in New York, wiffle ball has been deemed unsafe, there is a good reason why you have never seen a team before...

And not to give a wrong impression or anything, I just play some pickup games with my friends at a local park a few times a month. Nothing even close to an actual organized, tournament-attending, season-playing team. However, I do throw a pretty wicked-ass riser. :U)
 
Gawd Damn Saltalamacchia...

You would think a Catcher would know how to fucking catch.

Edit: And I didn't see the game, but why did Trevor Bauer only go 4 innings? I'm assuming a pitch count limited him at like 6 pitches or some shit.
 
ButteredToast said:
Gawd Damn Saltalamacchia...

You would think a Catcher would know how to fucking catch.

Edit: And I didn't see the game, but why did Trevor Bauer only go 4 innings? I'm assuming a pitch count limited him at like 6 pitches or some shit.
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I think so. Btw have fun with Bauer in fantasy this season! I think he'll eventually become a special pitcher but for this season, I probably wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole - has way too high a walk rate even in the minors. Even a historical control specialist like Darvish (in Japan anyway) has struggled in that respect in the big leagues, so no reason to see why Bauer won't - for this season at least.
 
Stallion said:
I think so. Btw have fun with Bauer in fantasy this season! I think he'll eventually become a special pitcher but for this season, I probably wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole - has way too high a walk rate even in the minors. Even a historical control specialist like Darvish (in Japan anyway) has struggled in that respect in the big leagues, so no reason to see why Bauer won't - for this season at least.
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More in love with Bauer's crazy ass 12.0 K/9 rate in the minors. He could put up some wicked K numbers against some real weak NL hitting teams. Plus, even if he does struggle, he can't be any worse than what I've been getting out of the freak this season.

Pretty much it was a "Low Risk, High Reward" pick up. Just like with Trout, it could work out great and if it doesn't I can trade him to someone who really needs K's. :D
 
http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/55848988

Dem Rockies.

also this

hBTRe.jpg
 
you didn't address the part about pitchers having developmental curves that are far less consistent than position players.
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I didn't address it because it wasn't relevant. So what? Pitchers don't develop along a well drawn line because a lot of pitching is mechanical. It's impossible to quantify how any mechanical tweak will affect a player by what amount. Mechanical tweaks are about guidance and approach anyway, meaning that it's not like a somewhat predictable trend of how a player grows because you don't know if it's going to even happen, and you don't know how the tweaks will help the player. It's silly to hold the belief that Stewart can legitimately progress for the sole reason that "it could happen".

many analysts of the game have an incredibly big beef with ceiling decreasing with age directly in the way you've said it.
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Oh? Show me, because that is such a blatant lie and you it. A lot of projecting how a player will improve is based on age and experience level. A teenage arm who has mediocre command has a far greater chance of improving in that regard as opposed to someone in his mid 20's who has the same command woes, because that 25 year old has had years to progress but has never done so. If that was the case, what makes you logically believe that it's going to change? Take Jameson Taillon for example. The reason he's so well ragarded is that's he's incredibly advanced for his age, but if he's still the exact same player when he's 25 as he is now, what hope is there that he's going to improve? You can give him a pass for his rawness now because he hasn't had a lot of time to polish his skills, but once he's 25, that no longer holds true. If what you said was true, which it isn't, then why have players like Esmailyn Gonzalez (Carlos Alvarez) and Yoan Alcantara been pretty much written off as prospects because they were found out to be older than they claimed? Why does age matter at all for prospects?

Their bodies aren't on the decline at 25
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Incorrect; pitchers have shown that they typically peak at an early stage. That's not the point anyway. Guys at 25 have had many years to improve on their skills, and while it's young for most players, it isn't for someone who's still a massive work in progress like Stewart. He's had years to improve, yet he hasn't. Your body also stops growing by the time you're 25; I mean, the 7th overall pick in this year's draft Max Fried sits in the upper 80's, but he's highly thought of because there's still a great chance he can gain velocity due to his tall and rail thin physique. If he packs 35 pounds of muscle but the velocity never picks up, what makes you think that's going to change? Talent and skill is always relative and has to be put in context.

It happens.
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If that's really the basis of your argument then you clearly have no understanding of what ceiling refers to.

I'm assuming a pitch count limited him at like 6 pitches or some shit.
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No, the DBacks aren't an organization that really does that. Bauer's been allowed to work his pitch count to 100 and beyond; he only left early in his debut because he felt cramps in his groin.
 
What is your ceiling then?

And jesus, take your smug attitude out. I said that he wasn't likely to, but you instantly jump down my throat because I still give him a chance?

It's silly to hold the belief that Stewart can legitimately progress for the sole reason that "it could happen".
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It's a faint belief, and that faint belief exists for everyone. What's even more ignorant is instantly throwing away potential, no matter how faint potential "left", to the side so instantly. It amazes me that you still argue so vehemently like that potential seizes to exists instantly.

I'll admit entirely that you and I seemed to even be focused on different things, but I completely ignored physical maturity and went for a more technical and skill based view of Stewart, something that was entirely false. Until a point of physical maturity is reached, when the body is no longer developing, one cannot say that ceiling is stagnant. But from that point until the point when the body deteriorates, the ceiling and the floor for the player remain pretty much fixed, something that you seem to disagree with.

Let's use Stewart as an example. Drafted out of college, he's already gone through his physical development. Based on his talent, I don't see how we can argue that his ceiling isn't constant throughout, as well as his floor. These are the talents he has, and this is the maximum or minimum that he can do. Younger prospects have the extra time to develop and make adjustments. I can't see how you argue that this changes their ceiling. It simply increases the likelihood of a positive outcome. With more time to make adjustments and develop technically, you are more likely to reach your ceiling.

I didn't say that age didn't matter. Saying that would be ignorant. You completely ignored my words when I said that age affected the probability of them reaching their ceiling. Once they've reached their physical peak, it's up to the technical aspect to grow along with it. And yeah, the longer it takes for them to get that together, the less likely it is. But it's still possible, up until their points where their natural abilities deteriorate.
 
so the AS team was unveiled today.

i don't know what's worse, the fact that Wright isn't the starting 3B (him and Joey Votto have been in another tier separate from all other NL players thus far) or the fact that New York fans couldn't be bothered to vote for him. shame on baseball fans everywhere and shame on baseball from letting this game decide home field advantage in the WS while letting biased fans vote for their favorite players.
 
All Star games are jokes. Not just in the MLB, but in the NFL, NBA, and NHL as well. (With the exceptions of Olympic years where the NHL breaks for the season and has all their players actually play in the Olympic games. THAT right there is not a piece of shit.) And the other three ASG’s are FAR worse than baseball. The modern ASG is just some overhyped piece of shit exhibition that in the scheme of things is irrelevant. The whole thing is just one big ass popularity contest designed to draw revenue, not to actually make a good game to watch. I mean, on top of the Wright thing, Carlos Ruiz not being the starting catcher is a joke. It’s a damn joke. Same with CC getting in with his 3.45 ERA and Jarrod Parker and Jake Peavy getting snubbed despite having far superior numbers. And fucking Mike Napoli should not even be allowed to smell the ASG with his .238 average, let along start in the fucking game. AND THE PLAYER WITH THE HIGHEST WAR IN BASEBALL DID NOT EVEN MAKE THE FUCKING TEAM.

Honestly the whole damn game should be eliminated. Keep the Futures Game around, as that’s not a piece of shit, but eliminate everything else and just have a 3 day break with nothing going on. It would sure as hell be better for players in the season, as they could actually REST and be with family instead of participating in the mother fucking HR Derby.
 
ButteredToast said:
All Star games are jokes. Not just in the MLB, but in the NFL, NBA, and NHL as well. (With the exceptions of Olympic years where the NHL breaks for the season and has all their players actually play in the Olympic games. THAT right there is not a piece of shit.) And the other three ASG’s are FAR worse than baseball. The modern ASG is just some overhyped piece of shit exhibition that in the scheme of things is irrelevant. The whole thing is just one big ass popularity contest designed to draw revenue, not to actually make a good game to watch. I mean, on top of the Wright thing, Carlos Ruiz not being the starting catcher is a joke. It’s a damn joke. Same with CC getting in with his 3.45 ERA and Jarrod Parker and Jake Peavy getting snubbed despite having far superior numbers. And fucking Mike Napoli should not even be allowed to smell the ASG with his .238 average, let along start in the fucking game. AND THE PLAYER WITH THE HIGHEST WAR IN BASEBALL DID NOT EVEN MAKE THE FUCKING TEAM.

Honestly the whole damn game should be eliminated. Keep the Futures Game around, as that’s not a piece of shit, but eliminate everything else and just have a 3 day break with nothing going on. It would sure as hell be better for players in the season, as they could actually REST and be with family instead of participating in the mother fucking HR Derby.
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Agreeing with the joke. But what's with the highest war not making it? Joey Votto is on the team. As is Trout. So top of each league are.
 
moi said:
Agreeing with the joke. But what's with the highest war not making it? Joey Votto is on the team. As is Trout. So top of each league are.
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Sorry to tell you this, and as a TOR fan I'd think you'd know, but Brett Lawrie currently has the highest overall WAR in baseball at 4.9. Wight and Votto have 4.3 and Trout only has a 4.1. If you need proof on the numbers, it's located here.

Good day sir.
 
It's because Fangraphs uses UZR, pretty sure. bWAR accounts for defensive really weirdly. Lawrie gets pulled into right field on the shift, and as bWAR accounts for all plays (whereas UZR doesn't account for plays on shifts) Lawrie is producing some HUGEEEEEe outlier numbers.

Lawrie is a good fielder who's got good range and makes a ton of plays that other 3B can't make, but he also has lapses on routine plays. He's not the 3.4 WAR player on defense :P
 
This season is just one big mother fucking joke. This has just surpassed 2009 in my books, and those were a bunch of season ending injuries. The Red Sox are a bunch of babies who I swear to god just make up injuries just to get 15 days of paid vacation time. I mean, its so bad that I could literally see Lester missing his next start because of mild ass contusions.

And yeah. I understand the injuries like Jacoby had where he broke his wrist or what Buchholz had with intestenal errosion, but come the fuck on with the "my neck hurts a little so Ima go on the DL." Kiss my ass. What ever happened to playing through injuries? We can't be on our 19th depth charted outfielder and have random spot starts from middle of the road bullpen guys (though Morales has been pitching lights out) and hope to compete at a major league level.
 
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