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Official Smogon University Simulator Statistics — September 2012
- Thread starter Antar
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you do realise that the cutoff for tier shifts is around 3.41%?
lol xatu rising up the ranks like a boss 
On a more serious note, definitely not surprised by the rise of the satanic bug Genesect to an unholy #5, and as we can all see Rain still dominates the metagame, with Politoed at #1 and Ferrothorn at a close #2. The old BW1 favorites Scizor and Dragonite remain top 5 material, again, no surprise there. What I am surprised by is the drop of Tornadus-T usage all the way down to #24...do people still not understand how broken that thing is? And Keldeo's still #45? Sheesh, OU battlers just can't take a hint.
On a more serious note, definitely not surprised by the rise of the satanic bug Genesect to an unholy #5, and as we can all see Rain still dominates the metagame, with Politoed at #1 and Ferrothorn at a close #2. The old BW1 favorites Scizor and Dragonite remain top 5 material, again, no surprise there. What I am surprised by is the drop of Tornadus-T usage all the way down to #24...do people still not understand how broken that thing is? And Keldeo's still #45? Sheesh, OU battlers just can't take a hint.
Scizor is still used more than Gene, and OMFG FERROTHORN IS #2! :O
Seriously, Ferro is so fucking annoying, but I never knew the usage was that high! Oh, and Heatran is #6? Since when? Rotom-W dropped >: And why are people using TTar more than Hippo on a duggy + gene meta? Dnite dropped too, but I'm actually surprised he's #3 with Torn-T and all. Latios dropped too. Poor latios.
Seriously, Ferro is so fucking annoying, but I never knew the usage was that high! Oh, and Heatran is #6? Since when? Rotom-W dropped >: And why are people using TTar more than Hippo on a duggy + gene meta? Dnite dropped too, but I'm actually surprised he's #3 with Torn-T and all. Latios dropped too. Poor latios.
T-tar is a better fit on offensive teams, and it's not like it wants to come in on Genesect unless on "T-bolt / Ice Beam / Flamethrower or lose" situations.
Also...
Sash Dugtrio Earthquake vs 156/0 HP Ttar: 218-258 (57.36 - 67.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
CB Tyranitar Pursuit vs 0/0/20 HP Dugtrio: 192-226 (95.52 - 112.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So, if SR is on Duggy's side, it can't revenge a healthy CB T-tar (which is a very common set on offensive teams) after pursuit-trapping something.
Seems rain is the dominant factor these days, also i'm surprised at the UU list now.
Now I have new toys to play with :]
Now I have new toys to play with :]
commentary in bold.
I thought it was lower than that. My bad.
It's been my experience that Umbreon is a great niche Pokemon in UU. Access to Wish and Heal Bell makes it a great cleric, and Foul Play is an interesting addition to its movepool in this new BW2 era, as it's not been uncommon for me to see a physical setup sweeper come in and assume that Umbreon will be switching out to allow a free Swords/Dragon Dance.
Gimmicky? Sure. But it works...
thundy t, torn t and keldeo combined have approx 20% usage, slightly more than toed. it's probably that each one is competing for space on a rain offense team but they're not all getting used at the same time
I think it's simply just the situation of there being only one Pokemon that summons rain, but many different rain abusers to choose from.
I'm just gonna save you all the disappointment and let you know that Tornadus and Virizion are not going to be great in UU. Decent? Sure. Great? Nope.
That is all.
Antar, is there a way you can make a UU metagame analysis without classifying 98% of teams as weatherless? The tier has no auto-weather so...
EDIT: I guess the correct question is whether it's possible to use different classifications altogether. Like... there's no such thing as rainstall in UU. I don't know if I'm being clear, but yeah...
That is all.
Antar, is there a way you can make a UU metagame analysis without classifying 98% of teams as weatherless? The tier has no auto-weather so...
EDIT: I guess the correct question is whether it's possible to use different classifications altogether. Like... there's no such thing as rainstall in UU. I don't know if I'm being clear, but yeah...
People be hatin', but if Electivire ever actually goes to NU, it will completely ravage that tier and probably be banned like Jynx was.
As for UU... Mew, Meletta, and Tornadus? Well, Mienshao and Roserade's jobs just got a LOT harder, and the new arrivals aren't gonna do much to help Crobat or Heracross either, especially since Heracross' only way of beating any of them is to Scarf up (assuming the opponent is smart) and predict well. Virizion will be an interesting addition, but it won't have the same affect as the aforementioned new entries (although Mew's been here before so it's in familiar territory).
I think RU is going to be a lot happier with CoffinFag gone. I seriously struggled to kill that thing in my UU battles, so I can imagine how much trouble it was in RU with those massive stats and ghost typing.
And of course, Politoed, Ferro, Scizor and D'nite lead the board as always in OU. Unless Genesect gets even more popular among U-turning sh... - I mean, serious Pokemon players - then not mcuh stands a chance this gen of knocking them off the top spots.
| 68 | Amoonguss | 1.937% |
FFS, why can't the fifty-billion-or-so rain abusers in OU get this thing out of the lower tiers so I can enjoy abusing Suicune in UU once again? :(
| 44 | Reuniclus | 5.300% |
| 47 | Metagross | 5.025% |
Looks like they aren't going anywhere just yet. If they ever do fall to UU though, then I have a feeling Escavalier and Houndoom are going to get EXTREMELY popular all of a sudden.
| 45 | Keldeo | 5.183% |
As much as I hate promoting Rain-abusers, this thing seriously needs more recognition. Just because Tornadus-T and Dragonite are very common, shouldn't stop this thing wrecking everyone else's s**t up.
As for UU... Mew, Meletta, and Tornadus? Well, Mienshao and Roserade's jobs just got a LOT harder, and the new arrivals aren't gonna do much to help Crobat or Heracross either, especially since Heracross' only way of beating any of them is to Scarf up (assuming the opponent is smart) and predict well. Virizion will be an interesting addition, but it won't have the same affect as the aforementioned new entries (although Mew's been here before so it's in familiar territory).
I think RU is going to be a lot happier with CoffinFag gone. I seriously struggled to kill that thing in my UU battles, so I can imagine how much trouble it was in RU with those massive stats and ghost typing.
And of course, Politoed, Ferro, Scizor and D'nite lead the board as always in OU. Unless Genesect gets even more popular among U-turning sh... - I mean, serious Pokemon players - then not mcuh stands a chance this gen of knocking them off the top spots.
| 68 | Amoonguss | 1.937% |
FFS, why can't the fifty-billion-or-so rain abusers in OU get this thing out of the lower tiers so I can enjoy abusing Suicune in UU once again? :(
| 44 | Reuniclus | 5.300% |
| 47 | Metagross | 5.025% |
Looks like they aren't going anywhere just yet. If they ever do fall to UU though, then I have a feeling Escavalier and Houndoom are going to get EXTREMELY popular all of a sudden.
| 45 | Keldeo | 5.183% |
As much as I hate promoting Rain-abusers, this thing seriously needs more recognition. Just because Tornadus-T and Dragonite are very common, shouldn't stop this thing wrecking everyone else's s**t up.
Keldeo at #45 really surprised me, and it's low usage in general is pretty shocking (#46 last month). IMO, it is the best Rain abuser simply because of how difficult it is to wall. Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T actually have solid counters, while you can never switch your special wall into Keldeo safely. It's quite disheartening how low the usage is considering how easily it dismantles of so many teams. Sub Calm Mind destroys stall, Specs murders offense and can break through Keldeo's "counters". Life Orb 4 attacks is just phenomenal coverage, and it even means Dragonite and such can't set up on you.
As for Genesect, it's still rising in usage. Genesect moving up 9 slots to #5 from last month is a good sign as how common it is, especially since it was only implemented a little over half the three month period which the others have had their usage recorded. If you double this to make Genesect's usage equal with the other 'mons in this list. it reaches well over 30% usage, which is pretty crazy. I know this isn't a reliable estimate but Genesect has had a big impact in the time it has been released, and it makes a lot of playstyles much more viable.
One thing I have noticed from battling is how rare stall teams are nowadays. It's almost unviable to use them given how much you have to cover with the new genies and Keldeo. Not to mention Genesect can go physical or special and play some mindgames with stall teams -- OHKO'ing Blissey with CB Iron Head or Ferrothorn with Flamethrower. Just to backup my point, here are some common members of stall teams.
Of course it is not all bad news for stall teams, with Politoed and Ferrothorn being #1 and #2 respectively. But there's no doubt stall is becoming a much harder playstyle to use as time goes on. This is supported by the increase of 'mons such as Xatu and Alakazam who are great Pokemon to use on Offensive Teams against Stall, and both have risen significantly in usage.
As for Genesect, it's still rising in usage. Genesect moving up 9 slots to #5 from last month is a good sign as how common it is, especially since it was only implemented a little over half the three month period which the others have had their usage recorded. If you double this to make Genesect's usage equal with the other 'mons in this list. it reaches well over 30% usage, which is pretty crazy. I know this isn't a reliable estimate but Genesect has had a big impact in the time it has been released, and it makes a lot of playstyles much more viable.
One thing I have noticed from battling is how rare stall teams are nowadays. It's almost unviable to use them given how much you have to cover with the new genies and Keldeo. Not to mention Genesect can go physical or special and play some mindgames with stall teams -- OHKO'ing Blissey with CB Iron Head or Ferrothorn with Flamethrower. Just to backup my point, here are some common members of stall teams.
Of course it is not all bad news for stall teams, with Politoed and Ferrothorn being #1 and #2 respectively. But there's no doubt stall is becoming a much harder playstyle to use as time goes on. This is supported by the increase of 'mons such as Xatu and Alakazam who are great Pokemon to use on Offensive Teams against Stall, and both have risen significantly in usage.
Yeah Ive pretty much given up on OU stall at this point, Genesect creates a stupid amount of pressure when team building, add on threats like Venusaur, Deoxsy-D, Alakazam, Latios, volt-turn, and Tornadus-T its pretty much impossible to make a stall team without having a major hole in your team to one of these pokemon. I can live with a weakness out in lower OU, but not if I am seeing it over and over again. Honestly, I just hope genesect gets banned because I can't play like that, and if its gone I have already made teams in early BW2 to deal with the most of the other threats. I'm highly considering just going to another tier at this point for the rest of the generation / until Genesect gets banned, UU looks promising, don't even have to deal with duggy or shadow tag.
It is really a shame that Kyurem and Hippodwon see so little usage...
Hippowdon is a beast, it walls so many attackers, both physical and special, can lay down SR, can phaze, has reliable recovery AND is a weather summoner. What more you could ask? Such a reliable poke.
Kyurem in the other hand checks pretty good most rain teams (Politoed is number one right?), has pretty good bulk, awesome coverage, awesome power and can heal. It's main drawback is weakness to SR and priority, but other than this, i fail to see why people don't use it. The SubRoost set is by far the best, imo.
Oh and everyone, be sure that if Genesect doesn't get banned, it will be number 1 in usage next month.
Hippowdon is a beast, it walls so many attackers, both physical and special, can lay down SR, can phaze, has reliable recovery AND is a weather summoner. What more you could ask? Such a reliable poke.
Kyurem in the other hand checks pretty good most rain teams (Politoed is number one right?), has pretty good bulk, awesome coverage, awesome power and can heal. It's main drawback is weakness to SR and priority, but other than this, i fail to see why people don't use it. The SubRoost set is by far the best, imo.
Oh and everyone, be sure that if Genesect doesn't get banned, it will be number 1 in usage next month.
While all that you said about Hippowdon is true, Tyranitar is a better choice to offensive teams, wich make up most sandstorm teams. Try to use it without having problems related to coverage or not being capable of even 3HKOing the opponent; I've tried to use it and got disappointed with the results. Hippowdon doesn't fit the offensive playstyle: after using Stealth Rock there isn't much that it's going to do for the team unless in situations that you are facing a non-Grass, non-Ice and non-Water physical sweeper. Many times it can't OHKO even things that are weak to Earthquake due to the lack of investiment in attack or Air Balloon, not to mention that there are still too many things immune to Ground. Sure that many times offensive teams can use one or two pokémon that aren't offensive, for support; but there are many better options than Hippowdon to support the team. Skarmory is a better physical wall that also has phazing and Stealth Rock, and even gets Spikes. Forretress can Rapid Spin and also has all three hazards. Not to mention that Hippowdon gets destroyed by a lot of special attacks without investiment in SpDef; Tyranitar can even sponge some super-effective special attacks. Hippowdon is definitively not recommended for most offensive teams unless you need something that doesn't get wrecked by Dugtrio.
As for Genesect, I don't doubt that it could become number 1 in usage this mont, but that's not what happened, and Genesect already got a lot of usage last month.
As for Genesect, I don't doubt that it could become number 1 in usage this mont, but that's not what happened, and Genesect already got a lot of usage last month.
I don't think that's quite true: three of the other four Pokemon in the Top 5 are 4x weak to Fire.
But yes, Tornadus-T's low usage is baffling. So is Gothitelle's even lower usage: how the hell is it not OU?
I actually find stall to be just viable enough in the meta. As long as you have heatran, genesect can't do anything, and then it just becomes the fun game of predict-the-u-turn-so-dugtrio-doesn't-make-it-gg. The worst thing to do against volt-turn is to switch out, and most stall pokes that are not directly weak to u-turn can actually take genesect on. I'm using a full stall team right now, but gets eaten alive by hydreigon. With stall, there's always something that completely counters you, but it's just a matter of choosing what that is.
Offense is not the only way to go man. Balanced sand is alive and strong, very strong, and Hippowdon is a champ in such teams. Hippo + Jellicent + Forretress + Stout is a tried and effective combo, which works perfectly. And also you ignore one major selling point of Hippo, he is the only weather inducer with reliable recovery, and as such, he is the most adept at winning weather wars.
And about Sect. As the time passes, more people will realize how awesome, and how easy he is to fit in a team. Don't forget we have been in this new meta for only 3 months. This is how he is going to reach #1.
And about Sect. As the time passes, more people will realize how awesome, and how easy he is to fit in a team. Don't forget we have been in this new meta for only 3 months. This is how he is going to reach #1.
Just ignore the entry.
Rain teams are possible. Stall teams are possible. Whenever my algorithm sees rain and stall tags on the same team, it adds the tag "rainstall."
So I don't exactly get what you're asking...
it wasn't #1 this month, And I dont see why that would change given it was here all month...
In my experience, Genesect is RIDICULOUSLY over-hyped. Base 99 speed means a ton of notable stuff outruns it (namely Infernape). And scarfed Genesect is ridiculously easy to play around. 4x weakness to fire is debilitating in a tier that's been countering Scizor and Ferrothorn for over a year.
All in all, I have NEVER had a problem with Genesect, even with my extremely inferior OU team.
All in all, I have NEVER had a problem with Genesect, even with my extremely inferior OU team.
Why do people keep saying that genesect was #5 in usage? That's only for the three months period, it was #3 in September, ahead of Scizor, thank you very much. What really surprises me is that Ferrothorn is #2. All I hear about is how fast-paced and offensive the meta-game is, and yet here we have the very definition of 'mixed wall' sitting right near the top of OU.
I am rather surprised how high Alakazam and Infernape are, and how low Keldeo is. And why are people still using Ambipom? Either it's a whole horde of bad players or people using him intentionally just to piss good players off.
I am rather surprised how high Alakazam and Infernape are, and how low Keldeo is. And why are people still using Ambipom? Either it's a whole horde of bad players or people using him intentionally just to piss good players off.
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