Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Threat List

[Minority]

(Banner by Minority Suspect, Arceus-type Sprites by Minority Suspect, Approved by Sweep)

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I already had this compiled as a reference for teambuilding, so I figured I might as well post it.

~ This threat list is comprised of two separate lists, one for offensive threats and one for defensive threats
~ Each Pokemon has its standard sets listed afterwards
~ Each Pokemon has a link to its ORAS analysis if it exists
~ Suggest additions / removals and be sure to justify your claims

(Offensive Threats)

Mega Salamence: [Offensive Dragon Dance / Bulky Dragon Dance]

Primal Groudon: [Rock Polish / SR + SD / Paradancer / Offensive SR]

Xerneas: [Geomancy / Choice Scarf / Choice Specs / All Out Attacker / Calm Mind]

Arceus: [Fast ExtremeKiller / Bulky ExtremeKiller]

Ho-Oh: [Choice Band / Life Orb]

Darkrai: [Offensive]

Mega Gengar: [Hex / Utility Trapper / Perish Trapper / Hypnosis]

Arceus-Ghost: [Swords Dance / Calm Mind]

Arceus-Ground: [Swords Dance / Special]

Latios: [Calm Mind / All Out Attacker]

Latias: [Calm Mind / All Out Attacker]

Rayquaza: [Mixed Attacker / Choice Band / Swords Dance / Dragon Dance]

Deoxys-A: [Life Orb / Sash Lead]

Giratina-O: [Physically Offensive / Hex]

Mega Diancie: [Offensive / Calm Mind]

Primal Kyogre: [Calm Mind / Physical]

Yveltal: [Offensive / Choice Scarf]

Dialga: [Shuca Berry / Life Orb]

Mewtwo: [Special Attacker / Calm Mind]

Mega Mewtwo Y: [Special Attacker / Calm Mind]

Excadrill: [Stealth Rock Lead / Swords Dance]

Mega Lucario: [Swords Dance]

Mega Kangaskhan: [Offensive]
Arceus-Rock: [Calm Mind]

Deoxys-S: [Lead]

Wobbuffet: [Shadow Tag]

Zekrom: [Shuca Berry + Hone Claws / Life Orb / Choice Band / Choice Scarf]

Shaymin-S: [Sub Seed / Life Orb / Choice Scarf]

Mega Mewtwo X: [Physical Attacker]

Jirachi: [Choice Scarf]

Arceus-Dark: [Calm Mind / Trapper]

Arceus-Fairy: [Offensive Utility / Stealth Rock]

Arceus-Ice: [Calm Mind]

Blaziken: [Life Orb]

Mega Blaziken: [3 Attacks / Swords Dance]

Kyurem-W: [Choice Specs / Life Orb / Choice Scarf]

Cloyster: [Shell Smash]

Greninja: [Spikes Lead]

Forretress: [Custap Spikes]

Smeargle: [Smash Pass]

Mega Tyrantiar: [Dragon Dance]

Mega Aerodactyl: [Offensive Stealth Rock]

Mega Gyarados: [Dragon Dance]

Mega Metagross: [All Out Attacker]

Gothitelle: [Shadow Tag CM]

Arceus-Electric: [Calm Mind]

Arceus-Dragon: [Swords Dance]

Arceus-Poison: [Calm Mind]

Genesect: [Choice Scarf]

Kyogre: [Choice Scarf]

Palkia: [Offensive]
Hoopa-Unbound: [Nasty Plot]

Ditto: [Choice Scarf]

(Defensive Threats)

Primal Groudon: [Defensive Stealth Rock / Rest]

Lugia: [Great Wall]

Arceus-Water: [Support]

Klefki: [Specially Defensive]

Mega Salamence: [Defensive]

Mega Sableye: [Magic Bounce]

Arceus-Dragon: [Support]

Primal Kyogre: [Physically Defensive]

Tyranitar: [Specially Defensive]

Latias: [Defog Support]

Skarmory: [Physically Defensive]

Yveltal: [Physically Defensive]

Arceus-Rock: [Support]

Ferrothorn: [Mixed Wall]

Xerneas: [Physically Defensive]

Mega Diancie: [Mega Support]

Aegislash: [Specially Defensive]

Jirachi: [Specially Defensive]

Chansey: [Team Support]

Blissey: [Team Support]

Diancie: [Defensive]
Cresselia: [Physically Defensive]

Alomomola: [Wish Support]

Mega Slowbro: [Physically Defensive]

Flygon: [Defog Support]

Mega Scizor: [Defensive]

Tentacruel: [Toxic Spikes]

Giratina: [Physically Defensive Pressure]
Groudon: [Physically Defensive]

Arceus-Grass: [3 Attacks + Recover]

Arceus-Poison: [Support]

Arceus-Fighting: [Support]

Arceus-Steel: [Support]

 

[Krauersaut]

(Art by Minority Suspect, Approved by Sweep)

​

I already had this compiled as a reference for teambuilding, so I figured I might as well post it.

~ This threat list is comprised of two separate lists, one for offensive threats and one for defensive threats
~ Each Pokemon has its standard sets listed afterwards
~ Each Pokemon has a link to its ORAS analysis if it exists
~ Suggest additions / removals and be sure to justify your claims

(Offensive Threats)

Mega Salamence: [Offensive Dragon Dance / Bulky Dragon Dance]

Primal Groudon: [Offensive Stealth Rock / Rock Polish / Swords Dance]

Xerneas: [Geomancy / Choice Scarf / All Out Attacker]

Arceus: [Swords Dance]

Ho-Oh: [Life Orb / Choice Band]

Mega Gengar: [Utility Trapper / Perish Trapper]

Primal Kyogre: [Calm Mind]

Arceus-Ghost: [Calm Mind / Swords Dance]

Darkrai: [Life Orb]

Mewtwo: [Special Attacker / Calm Mind]

Mega Mewtwo Y: [Special Attacker / Calm Mind]

Yveltal: [Life Orb]

Latios: [Calm Mind / All Out Attacker]

Latias: [Calm Mind / All Out Attacker]

Arceus-Dark: [Calm Mind]

Arceus-Ground: [Swords Dance / Calm Mind]

Rayquaza: [Mixed Attacker / Swords Dance / Dragon Dance]

Deoxys-A: [Life Orb / Sash Lead]

Mega Diancie: [Offensive / Calm Mind]

Mega Blaziken: [3 Attacks / Swords Dance]

Mega Mewtwo X: [Physical Attacker / Bulk Up]

Mega Kangaskhan: [Offensive]

Dialga: [Life Orb]

Arceus-Rock: [Calm Mind]

Genesect: [Choice Scarf]

Excadrill: [Sand Rush]

Wobbuffet: [Shadow Tag]

Palkia: [Offensive]

Zekrom: [Choice Scarf / Life Orb / Choice Band]

Shaymin-S: [Sub Seed / Life Orb / Choice Scarf]

Kyurem-W: [Choice Specs / Life Orb / Choice Scarf]

Landorus-T: [Offensive Stealth Rock / Choice Scarf]

Kyogre: [Choice Scarf]

Deoxys-S: [Lead]

Cloyster: [Shell Smash]

Greninja: [Spikes Lead]

Jirachi: [Choice Scarf]

Mega Aerodactyl: [Offensive Stealth Rock]

Mega Metagross: [All Out Attacker]

Arceus-Poison: [Calm Mind]

Arceus-Electric: [Calm Mind]

Arceus-Ice: [Calm Mind]

Arceus-Dragon: [Calm Mind / Swords Dance]

Reshiram: [3 Attacks]

Ditto: [Choice Scarf]

Mega Lucario: [Physical Attacker]

Mega Mawile: [Physical Attacker]

Smeagle: [Sash Lead]

(Defensive Threats)

Lugia: [Great Wall]

Arceus-Ghost: [Support]

Klefki: [Specially Defensive]

Giratina-O: [Physically Defensive]

Mega Salamence: [Defensive]

Mega Sableye: [Magic Bounce]

Ferrothorn: [Mixed Wall]

Clefable: [Unaware]

Primal Groudon: [Defensive Stealth Rock / Specially Defensive]

Primal Kyogre: [Physically Defensive]

Xerneas: [Resttalk]

Yveltal: [Physically Defensive]

Ho-Oh: [Physically Defensive]

Latias: [Defog Support]

Arceus-Rock: [Support]

Tyranitar: [Specially Defensive]

Mega Diancie: [Mega Support]

Arceus-Fairy: [Support]

Dialga: [Support]

Mega Scizor: [Defensive]

Gliscor: [Physically Defensive]

Aegislash: [Specially Defensive]

Arceus-Water: [Support]

Jirachi: [Specially Defensive]

Skarmory: [Physically Defensive]

Blissey: [Team Support]

Mewtwo: [Stalltwo]

Mega Mewtwo Y: [Stalltwo]

Arceus-Poison: [Support]

Arceus-Ground: [Support]

Arceus-Grass: [Support]

Forretress: [Custap Spikes]

Landorus-T: [Physically Defensive]

Groudon: [Physically Defensive]

Diancie: [Defensive]

Whimsicott: [Sub Seed]

Alomomola: [Wish Support]

Arceus-Steel: [Support]

Arceus-Psychic: [Support]

Mega Slobro: [Physically Defensive]

Deoxys-D: [Mixed Wall]

Giratina: [Great Wall]

Since the first three mons in your threatlist are Megamence, PDon and Xern, I'm assuming you're trying to have some sort of a hierarchal order. If you are, there is no justifiable reason for having Mega Blaze ahead of MMX, Skymin, Excadrill and Mega Luke (at least Mega Luke can OHKO PDon at +2, not something Blaze can do). I would also put a lot of re-arranging into the lower half of the offensive threatlist - despite "[00:06] +Thugly duckling: I suppose. But if Poisonceus somehow gets really good and the ladder begins to use Kyurem as a check", Eleceus is far, FAR better than Poisonceus, at a glance.

Regular Groudon should be way higher in the defensive list as well - it completely covers all PDon sets (except max SpA Eruption, ladder is fun) and is one of the few mons that can claim to do so. Tbh, the defensive list could use a lot more restructuring than I have time to suggest (just settling into a rental place in B.C for now).

All nitpicking aside though, this isn't a bad thread by any means. Tl;Dr: restructure to a more meta hierarchal strucure and bump up regular Groudon.

 

[Minority]

there is no justifiable reason for having Mega Blaze ahead of Mega Luke (at least Mega Luke can OHKO PDon at +2, not something Blaze can do).

There actually is since it's an entire letter above Mega Luke in current viability rankings, if you disagree with those rankings then proving your point there was the first step.

There was not really an intentional hierarchy when this was initially assembled, it kinda just went casually down the old viability rankings (which weren't very up to date at the time) hence why several things appear misplaced now. I updated the analysis links, removed stuff that got rejected, and shuffled some stuff around. Try to stay away from personal biases when suggesting changes for macroscopic data threads though, just because you find one mon more viable than the other doesn't make it true.

 

[procrastinat]

Is Darkrai's Focus Sash set different enough from Life Orb to deserve a slash under Offensive?

 

[Minority]

Focus Sash isn't a set, it's just an alternate held item that is popular on the ladder. The sets are exactly the same.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Mega Slowbro is misspelled.

 

[Hack]

Focus Sash isn't a set, it's just an alternate held item that is popular on the ladder. The sets are exactly the same.

I used sash during spl and I know blim liked it too

 

[Minority]

Because in the past arbitrary cutoffs made it so that there was even less agreement as to what would be worth listing. Listing only Pokemon that were agreed to be viable is the best compromise because an agreement has already taken place even though some people might stray from that norm.

I agree that Lando-T has a defensive niche, after all I tried to push it through C&C, but the consensus was that it doesn't for reasons I won't fully explain here. I'll just remove any Pokemon like Deo-D that only have analyses because they have to.

As for LO and Sash Darkrai their spreads are the same, so I can just change Darkrai to "offensive" or whatever to be more inclusive for held items.

 

[Maxgepic]

first up I would just like to say this is an Amazing list but I have 2 small suggestions.

1. Firstly I think Arceus-Normal and Xerneas should be higher than Primal Groudon on the Offensive list because Groudon needs 2 turns to set up while Arceus and Xerneas get set up in 1 turn and then get to use more coverage move's

2. I also feel yveltal is a little low on the Defensive list. I've been using the Defensive set on a lot of my stall teams and IMO it's amazing, takes on MMence and EKiller very nicely, has taunt for opposing walls and even sucker punch allowing it to also function as a revenge killer.

other then that good job.

 

[Minority]

Well since a thread that hasn't been updated in 13 months got bumped I had to go through this and make some minor adjustments (updating the mega sprites too). I didn't make very many edits with the intention that people can point out all the mons that have since been given analyses and aren't on this list. Also talk about moving threats up or down, etc.

 

[Aberforth]

Can we really call those last 3 (cm/sd dragceus, cm poisonceus and scarf ogre) offensive threats?

 

[Maxgepic]

Steelphoenix

ok. that's definitely an interesting view. I was just thinking that since PDon needs 2 turns of set up while Ekiller and GeoXern only need 1 it would hinder it's sweeping abilities, plus I don't think being one dimensional is that big of a problem but yeah! I can definitely see where your coming from.

Oh yeah. thanks for moving yveltal up on the Defensive list. man that thing is cool.

 

[Maxgepic]

Brief comments on the offensive threats list:

Mega Salamence: [Offensive Dragon Dance / Bulky Dragon Dance] Couldn't agree more.

Primal Groudon: [Offensive Stealth Rock / Rock Polish / Swords Dance] I made a short post a few days ago explaining why I think this should be below GeoXern and Ekiller but steelphoenix gave me a reasonable enough explanation as to why its slightly higher so I guess this is fine here.

Xerneas: [Geomancy / Choice Scarf / Choice Specs / All Out Attacker / Calm Mind] Fine by me.

Arceus: [Swords Dance] Fine by me.

Ho-Oh: [Life Orb / Choice Band] Fine by me.

Darkrai: [Offensive] Fine by me.

Mega Gengar: [Utility Trapper / Hex / Perish Trapper / Hypnosis] Hmm. Not sure. On one hand its guarantee a kill every match but on the other hand it lacks the 6-0 ability the above exude. Hmm. I'll get back on this one another time.

Arceus-Ghost: [Swords Dance / Calm Mind] My brain is telling me this should be higher then Gengar but I guess its fine here as well.

Latios: [Calm Mind / All Out Attacker] This seems a little bit high if you ask me but I haven't seen or used it enough to comment so I guess its fine here.

Latias: [Calm Mind / All Out Attacker] Too high imo. While I love Latias on my balance teams as a great Defensive/Utility mon even with the aid of the Soul Dew it lacks the Offensive power to overcome many threats in the tier and the CM set is vastly outdone by Latios.

Arceus-Ground: [Swords Dance] Fine by me.

Rayquaza: [Mixed Attacker / Choice Band / Swords Dance / Dragon Dance] Fine by me.

Deoxys-A: [Life Orb / Sash Lead] Fine by me.

Mega Diancie: [Offensive / Calm Mind] Fine by me.

Primal Kyogre: [Calm Mind / Physical] Fine by me.

Yveltal: [Life Orb] My brain is telling me this should rise but there is of course a massive overlap with Darkrai and Ho-oh with a few specialized advantages so I guess its fine here.

Dialga: [Life Orb] Really? there's such thing as an Offensive Dialga? werid. But yeah imo this should drop a little bit.

Mewtwo: [Special Attacker / Calm Mind] If you could squeeze this somewhere between Deoxys-A and Primal Kyogre that'd be great.

Mega Mewtwo Y: [Special Attacker / Calm Mind] Same goes here.

Arceus-Rock: [Calm Mind] Fine by me.

Excadrill: [Sand Rush] Fine by me.

Wobbuffet: [Shadow Tag] Not seen it enough to comment which is a shame :(

Mega Lucario: [Swords Dance] Is this thing really even viable? I honestly don't know.

Zekrom: [Shuca + Hone Claws / Life Orb / Choice Band / Choice Scarf] Fine by me.

Shaymin-S: [Sub Seed / Life Orb / Choice Scarf] Higher then Zekrom please. While it might not have insanely powerful Dragon/Electric Stab's it more then makes up for this by not having the worst match up against the top tier threats above.

Mega Kangaskhan: [Offensive] Fine by me.

Mega Mewtwo X: [Physical Attacker / Bulk Up] Feel this is a bit low but I do agree its very mediocre.

Jirachi: [Choice Scarf] Fine by me.

Arceus-Dark: [Calm Mind / Trapper] Fine by me.

Arceus-Ice: [Calm Mind] Fine by me.

Mega Blaziken: [3 Attacks / Swords Dance] I dunno. Its better then Luke I suppose so they switch places I guess?

Kyurem-W: [Choice Specs / Life Orb / Choice Scarf] Fine by me.

Genesect: [Choice Scarf] Fine by me.

Deoxys-S: [Lead] Come on. Its a core on the standard ORAS HO functioning as one of the best leads for HO teams available higher please.

Cloyster: [Shell Smash] Fine by me.

Greninja: [Spikes Lead] Fine by me.

Forretress: [Custap Spikes] Fine by me.

Mega Aerodactyl: [Offensive Stealth Rock] Seems like quite a cool pokemon in theory.

Mega Metagross: [All Out Attacker] Never seen it once in my entire experience.

Arceus-Electric: [Calm Mind] Yeah. this thing is honestly a shitmon now. move down please.

Arceus-Dragon: [Calm Mind / Swords Dance] Fine by me.

Arceus-Poison: [Calm Mind] Better then Electric but worse then Dragon.

Kyogre: [Choice Scarf] Fine by me.

Palkia: [Offensive] RIP my 57th favourite pokemon :(

Ditto: [Choice Scarf] (XD)

 

[8-BIT Luster]

Maxgepic
The thing about Deo-S is that it isn't a threat offensively, sure it's a strong lead but it does not have any offensive pressure. The thing's most common set doesn't even have any attacking moves. It's a Pokemon on offensive teams, but it doesn't threaten the opponents with any KOs which I would say justifies its placement. It's why you see all the leads not named PDon near the bottom of the list. Excadrill, who can also run a pretty effective lead set, is near the top not because of that set, but because of its Sand Rush set. I don't think a standard, non-offensive lead (unlike PDon, which is arguably the best offensive Stealth Rocker ever) will ever be anywhere near the top of a list where things that can threaten opposing teams with complete sweeps if given one free turn are.
Maybe higher than Genesect tho does that thing even have the ability to do anything but die anymore

 

[Maxgepic]

Then shouldn't Deoxys-S and to a lesser extent all the suicide leads not named Excadrill move down or maybe create a new list for them? either way Deoxys-S will always be the best lead for HO teams imo.

By the way what do you think about my other suggestions?

 

[8-BIT Luster]

I mean all those leads are pretty low, the only things below them are absolute garbage

gengar should stay where it is, it's main reason for being so threatening is that it gets to pick what it takes out and STag prevents switching which can be a massive momentum killer. Plus it's stron af
I'd put regular Mewtwo above Dialga, sure LO Dialga is a thing but Shuca seems to be far more common (tho I believe LO Dialga is a thing in tours) whereas LO is about the only thing Mewtwo will ever run and it's p damn good. LO Dialga just isn't doing much for me, but I haven't really played with it in a while so maybe someone with more experience with LO Dialga can pitch in.
Mewtwo Megas should stay where they are, MMY is rockin that base 140 speed which is nice but there isn't really anything in that 130-140 base speed range that REALLY needs to be beaten, altho MMY is a p solid drai check. LO M2 is stronger as well. MMX Is just kinda garbage, like what does it do? take an ESpeed from boosted arc? Wow, amazing.
Mega Luke should stay where it is, it's actually surprisingly good vs some stall builds. MBlaze should also stay where it is, it can't take jack shit and altho the same could be said for MLuke, Blaziken is also really underwhelming offensively as well. Blaze also suffers from significant opportunity cost, probably more than any other mega except possibly mawile (even that's debatable.)
As much as I love Yveltal, it should honestly stay where it is. It isn't as good as it was back in XY, and while it is overall a strong mon, there just isn't much it really shines against.
I have zero experience with Shaymin-S so I won't even bother.
Zekrom is a monster, even though its STABs are resisted by the ubiquitous PDon/Xern pair, Shuca still acts as a really cool Mence check and boops Ho-Oh even through potential sacred fire burns (burned Adamant Bolt Strike does 63%-80% to Band) although if you come in on the EQ this shouldn't be an issue.

idfk everything else and I'm not exactly well-versed wtih a whole bunch of these mons but this is they reasoning I think was behind these placements

 

[Maxgepic]

Ok. that's definitely an interesting view although I still feel both M2 and MMY should be close to together since they basically are the same pokemon.
However I disagree with your premise on Yveltal, while it might not be the best thing in the metagame its still a very effective mon that has a ton of power so please don't undersell it.

EDIT: Oh by the way Yveltal shines against Arceus-Ghost, Mewtwo, Deoxys, Giratina, Latis and Mega Gengar (sort of)

DOUBLE EDIT: Don't even talk about MMX being a good Ekiller check, that's just plain dumb.

 

[Maxgepic]

Holy moly the list just got updated. thanks :)

EDIT: Swap Arceus-Poison and Arceus-Electric pls, I'm not kidding Poison is clearly better.

 

[Uxali]

Why is tina-o so much overrated ;; shall be below pdon as a defensive threat; mmence has better physical bulk, and intimidate/roost/refresh, while ceus and msab have wow + recover, and foul play + magic bounce for the latter
Tina can't switch more than a couple of times on anything.
About LO dialga, he destroyed any balance build but sucks vs offense, might be below m2 and mm2y, and tbh dedicated stallbreakers such as mluke and even that shitty kyu-w perform better than dialga.

 

[Maxgepic]

Can someone please tell me why Mega Luke and Gothitelle are on the list or in Luke's case so high?

Lucario wasn't that great in XY and pretty much no matter what way you looked at it needed Sticky Web support to be effective and now that the Latis have killed the viability of Sticky Web and Lucario really isn't that good anymore since its slow on the first turn and the opportunity cost of not using Salamence on Offence is MASSIVE.

As for Goth I thought that the physical oriented just made it unviable so how is it now suddenly considered viable again?

 

[Minority]

I added Cresselia and Hoopa-U because they got analyses and the later is somewhat usable. I also moved a few Pokemon around for both the offensive list and the defensive one.

Gothielle is on this list because it got an analysis and thus is considered a viable Pokemon. Mega Lucario is "high" on the list (it really isn't) because defensive squads can actually struggle against this mon and need to explicitly check that they aren't too weak to it. Mewtwo, while a potentially dangerous offensive Pokemon, has nowhere near the same utility as the threats listed above it. Giratina-O is listed as high as it is because it is A+ on viability rankings, this is due to how many permutations of bulky offense and balance teams it fits on. MM2X is a fine EKiller check, and Yveltal isn't nearly as good as some people hype it to be. Let's also make sure we're not getting hung up on these minor details of position placement on the list, especially between mons that aren't used very often anyways.

 

[Uxali]

Tina-o is overrated af, much more than yvel could even be. Maybe it's usable and quite good but anyone agree to move it down.

 

[Maxgepic]

Tina-o is overrated af, much more than yvel could even be. Maybe it's usable and quite good but anyone agree to move it down.

I think your undervaluing Giratina a little bit, sure it might not be the best thing in the Metagame but it still does what its supposed to (Defog, PDon check, Physical check etc)
I do agree that its probably a little high up but I think your being a real jerk honestly.

 

[Uxali]

Any support ceus defog better, it hates being burn by lava pdon, he lacks recover and power, I'm maybe quite rude but it's a bad mix of offensive and defensive thing

 

[Maxgepic]

Any support ceus defog better, it hates being burn by lava pdon, he lacks recover and power, I'm maybe quite rude but it's a bad mix of offensive and defensive thing

???

How exactly is a 120 Att/SpaAtt mon with incredibly powerful Ghost/Dragon Stabs even further amplified by the griseous orb lacking power?