I doubt it. BW2 won't even know what you picked in BW1 unless they make you connect them before you start playing. This would a terrible idea because then you would have to buy BW1 just to play BW2, and no one who doesn't already have BW1 is going to do that.
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Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th
- Thread starter Firestorm
- Start date
- Status
I doubt it. BW2 won't even know what you picked in BW1 unless they make you connect them before you start playing. This would a terrible idea because then you would have to buy BW1 just to play BW2, and no one who doesn't already have BW1 is going to do that.
True that. Maybe the player characters from BW1 will go by their canon names, Hilbert and Hilda when people are talking about them?
Well Electric & Fire are definitely a given by the covers, but the second typings are still up to debate.
Since they're forms of Kyurem, they'll probably keep Kyurem's stats ala Rotom-A since they're both 130 in each attack stat. It'll probably get Fusion Bolt/Flare but probably not Bolt Strike or Blue Flare. It would be interesting to see a powered-down Reshiram & Zekrom in OU. Turboblaze & Terravolt might break them though since they'd basically be the best stall-breakers in OU. Turboblaze Fusion Flare with Outrage & Terravolt Fusion Bolt with Draco Meteor; that's basically just MixMence on Steroids. White Kyurem busts open Blissey & Water-types with Outrage & Black Kyurem breaks Ground-types with Draco Meteor & Ferrothorn with HP Fire or Focus Blast.
95 Speed would still be their biggest downfall, but if they keep the Dragon-typing, they're at least Dragons that resist Jirachi's non-sense with massive bulk.
But on the other hand, Fire/Ice & Electric/Ice would be just as interesting. Even with Turboblaze, White Kyurem would probably fall to UU just because of it's STABs being resisted by Water-types with no up-side to it's typing like Heatran's Steel-typing has. Black Kyurem might make a good niche for itself in OU, demolishing Volt-Turn and Gliscor+Water-type cores with it's impressive bulk setting it apart from most Electric-types that could do the same, as well as being a great mixed attacker that's not really stopped by any part of Stall. And unlike Rotom-F, Black Kyurem has Focus Blast to maim Tyranitar.
White Kyurem would be Roserade & Sand Stream's worst nightmare in UU so it wouldn't be all bad...just as long as White Kyurem does fall to UU and not get stuck on the edge of OU like Scrafty did for over a year...
tl;dr: Electric/Dragon & Electric/Ice are both great for Black Kyurem, but White Kyurem will really only shine outside of UU if it's Fire/Dragon. Fire/Ice would just be bad for it in OU; great in UU, but bad in OU.
I hope they give Kyurem Icicle Crash. It really needs a good physical move that's not Dragon-type so Mixed Kyurem can save it's Dragon-STAB for Draco Meteor.
Since they're forms of Kyurem, they'll probably keep Kyurem's stats ala Rotom-A since they're both 130 in each attack stat. It'll probably get Fusion Bolt/Flare but probably not Bolt Strike or Blue Flare. It would be interesting to see a powered-down Reshiram & Zekrom in OU. Turboblaze & Terravolt might break them though since they'd basically be the best stall-breakers in OU. Turboblaze Fusion Flare with Outrage & Terravolt Fusion Bolt with Draco Meteor; that's basically just MixMence on Steroids. White Kyurem busts open Blissey & Water-types with Outrage & Black Kyurem breaks Ground-types with Draco Meteor & Ferrothorn with HP Fire or Focus Blast.
95 Speed would still be their biggest downfall, but if they keep the Dragon-typing, they're at least Dragons that resist Jirachi's non-sense with massive bulk.
But on the other hand, Fire/Ice & Electric/Ice would be just as interesting. Even with Turboblaze, White Kyurem would probably fall to UU just because of it's STABs being resisted by Water-types with no up-side to it's typing like Heatran's Steel-typing has. Black Kyurem might make a good niche for itself in OU, demolishing Volt-Turn and Gliscor+Water-type cores with it's impressive bulk setting it apart from most Electric-types that could do the same, as well as being a great mixed attacker that's not really stopped by any part of Stall. And unlike Rotom-F, Black Kyurem has Focus Blast to maim Tyranitar.
White Kyurem would be Roserade & Sand Stream's worst nightmare in UU so it wouldn't be all bad...just as long as White Kyurem does fall to UU and not get stuck on the edge of OU like Scrafty did for over a year...
tl;dr: Electric/Dragon & Electric/Ice are both great for Black Kyurem, but White Kyurem will really only shine outside of UU if it's Fire/Dragon. Fire/Ice would just be bad for it in OU; great in UU, but bad in OU.
I hope they give Kyurem Icicle Crash. It really needs a good physical move that's not Dragon-type so Mixed Kyurem can save it's Dragon-STAB for Draco Meteor.
I'm very unconvinced that the Dragon-type portion will be lost here. First of all - adding the DNA of another Dragon-type to an existing Dragon-type Pokemon isn't suddenly going to make it disappear (unless they introduce ~*negative Dragon*~ and %#positive Dragons #%...). Secondly, Dragon is the primary type of Zekrom and Reshiram. A lot of emphasis has been placed into Zek and Resh as Dragons in the movie and in the games - moreso than their Electric/Fire elements, respectively. Thirdly Kyurem has been named "the strongest Dragon on Earth" (lol) in the movie description. Would be awkward for them to fall back on that because the original Kyurem is pathetic and I'm sure its purposely broken-off design says something about it.
There's also a certain icy feel in the non-'energetic' versions on the art. For instance, the Ice spikes seen in the original Kyurem's wings remain there (apparently used as a power outlet in the energetic version, though). A lot of things point to them keeping their Ice types (Freeze Shock/Ice Burn, the initial reveal of BW2 also showed many ice particles, the icy feel of the scene where White Kyurem appears from underground through ice.
I'm sure that if these things do end up being Dragon/Electric or Dragon/Fire I'd be extremely happy but I'm having a tough time seeing that they won't just be Dragon/Ice (or maybe even pure Dragon because they might cancel out the elemental typing...). Though, I'm not discrediting the possibility of them having more than one possible typing, changeable by some circumstance (i.e if you have Bolt Strike/Fusion Bolt Black Kyurem becomes Dragon/Electric, Freeze Shock and it becomes Dragon/Ice, while having both would make it Ice/Electric. If you have neither it'll probably revert back to regular Kyurem or something. Anyways, just some pure hopefulness...lol).
There's also a certain icy feel in the non-'energetic' versions on the art. For instance, the Ice spikes seen in the original Kyurem's wings remain there (apparently used as a power outlet in the energetic version, though). A lot of things point to them keeping their Ice types (Freeze Shock/Ice Burn, the initial reveal of BW2 also showed many ice particles, the icy feel of the scene where White Kyurem appears from underground through ice.
I'm sure that if these things do end up being Dragon/Electric or Dragon/Fire I'd be extremely happy but I'm having a tough time seeing that they won't just be Dragon/Ice (or maybe even pure Dragon because they might cancel out the elemental typing...). Though, I'm not discrediting the possibility of them having more than one possible typing, changeable by some circumstance (i.e if you have Bolt Strike/Fusion Bolt Black Kyurem becomes Dragon/Electric, Freeze Shock and it becomes Dragon/Ice, while having both would make it Ice/Electric. If you have neither it'll probably revert back to regular Kyurem or something. Anyways, just some pure hopefulness...lol).
I'm still of the opinion that these will be Dragon/Ice just like Kyurem, only they'll be able to learn fire/electric attacks
I bet that they will get abilities that give them a 1.5x STAB to Electric/Fire (perhaps even an immunity if GF feels that White Kyurem taking neutral from Fire is "unfitting"). Maybe if we are lucky, God Stone w/e could be a hold item that not only gives x1.2 boosts to Dragon/Ice/Fire/Electric, but also charges Freeze Shock and Ice Burn instantly. FS/IB being Sky Attack clones are the only thing I'm concerned about at all with B2/W2.
This is almost exactly what I was going to post. I don't see the Kyruem formes losing the Dragon typing and I can't see them getting the same typings as Reshiram and Zekrom. My guess is that they'll remain Dragon-Ice.
I'd be nice if they get abilities like Lightning Rod/Motor Drive or Flash Fire. It probably would fit the flavour and White Kyurem wouldn't mind the Fire immunity.
I agree completely. I have a feeling they might work like Rotom-A, where they get Fusion Flare/Bolt (or possibly Blue Flare and Bolt Strike) when you change their forms and learn Freeze Flare/Bolt by level up. Reshiram and Zekrom's signature moves would be deleted upon changing back, but Kyurem's new signature moves would stay.
The Ice is Kyurem's actual body. That's like saying Regigigas is a Grass-type. If Pineco or Azurill didn't make it clear very early, appearance doesn't have anything to do with typing. ("Charizard's a Dragon right?") They emphasize Electric & Fire FAR more than they do Ice on the official box art with the Electric & Fire streaming through the background. Going back to what Jibaku said, there's a big difference in credibility when you go from a simple Public Relations Flash Animation announcing the games and official artwork like the box art. To me, there's just no way Kyurem's forms are keeping the same typing. The Fire & Electric themes are just far too pronounced at this point to just discredit as some ability. Even the Rotom-A got a type change for 5th gen. It wouldn't make sense for them to take a step back from that with the Version Legendaries of all things.
On the subject of abilities, they've never added a new ability or move in the same Generation so I doubt they'll start now just for one Pokemon.
I would say Ice is more prominent based on the icy introduction, the crystal like formations on the box art, kyurem's signature move glaciate being Ice type, two unreleased Ice moves that seem to perfectly fit a half Kyurem, reshiram/zekrom. The dragon typing i'm still on the line but because of all the dragon references, right now I find it more likely that Kyurem's typing will remain unchanged.
They are Dragons but they are the Energy Trio: "Blazing White Yang", "Electrifying Black Yin", and "Frozen Boundary"
Fire, Electric, & Ice are the only element of ANY BW2 artwork that have been pronounced in any way shape or form. How much of a difference does it make that Dragon is first in it's typing? They learn far more Fire, Electric, & Ice moves respectively than they do Dragon Moves by Level-Up alone. At ANY point was Fire, Electric, & Ice mentioned as being a "secondary" typing, I'm pretty sure that's just a "fan term".
http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/trailer/index.php
If we give the movie any credit, Kyurem doesn't actually fuse with Reshiram or Zekrom as much as it just saps them of their energy. Don't think of these as "fusions", think of them as the Fire & Electric forms of Kyurem. Kyurem absorbed BOTH Reshiram & Zekrom's energy in the movie so it can probably change it's form at will similar to Deoxys. (Kyurem IS from space. Not sure if coincidence or...) There aren't 2 Kyurem. It didn't possess Zekrom & Reshiram. They're never seen together, it's just editting that makes it look like that until you realize that White Kyurem is attacking in the day-time while Black Kyurem is attacking in the night time. I'm sure they've went to GF for the facts so I'm willing to bet my money that the movie is a reliable source as any on this specific matter. So with that said:
These are forms of Kyurem. They are not the Ice forms of Reshiram & Zekrom.
So stop thinking like that. You're making it a LOT more complicated than it rightfully should be. While nothing's confirmed, I consider them Ice Kyurem, Fire Kyurem, & Electric Kyurem. It makes a LOT more sense that way from a design perspective and especially a concept perspective. It makes NO sense for him to keep his Ice/Dragon-type. He may keep his Ice-typing or he may keep his Dragon-typing, but not both. I'm leaning toward Dragon but that's just me. My point is that the evidence for a Fire or Electric-typing is just too staggering. The only evidence otherwise is a flash animation with an icy background. That argument wouldn't even hold up a thin sheet of paper.
Oh and how is having two completely different Fire/Dragon & Electric/Dragon Pokemon sooo much crazier than having THREE Ice/Dragons with the same movepool minus one attack? Sense; please start to make it, Smogon.
Fire, Electric, & Ice are the only element of ANY BW2 artwork that have been pronounced in any way shape or form. How much of a difference does it make that Dragon is first in it's typing? They learn far more Fire, Electric, & Ice moves respectively than they do Dragon Moves by Level-Up alone. At ANY point was Fire, Electric, & Ice mentioned as being a "secondary" typing, I'm pretty sure that's just a "fan term".
http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/trailer/index.php
If we give the movie any credit, Kyurem doesn't actually fuse with Reshiram or Zekrom as much as it just saps them of their energy. Don't think of these as "fusions", think of them as the Fire & Electric forms of Kyurem. Kyurem absorbed BOTH Reshiram & Zekrom's energy in the movie so it can probably change it's form at will similar to Deoxys. (Kyurem IS from space. Not sure if coincidence or...) There aren't 2 Kyurem. It didn't possess Zekrom & Reshiram. They're never seen together, it's just editting that makes it look like that until you realize that White Kyurem is attacking in the day-time while Black Kyurem is attacking in the night time. I'm sure they've went to GF for the facts so I'm willing to bet my money that the movie is a reliable source as any on this specific matter. So with that said:
These are forms of Kyurem. They are not the Ice forms of Reshiram & Zekrom.
So stop thinking like that. You're making it a LOT more complicated than it rightfully should be. While nothing's confirmed, I consider them Ice Kyurem, Fire Kyurem, & Electric Kyurem. It makes a LOT more sense that way from a design perspective and especially a concept perspective. It makes NO sense for him to keep his Ice/Dragon-type. He may keep his Ice-typing or he may keep his Dragon-typing, but not both. I'm leaning toward Dragon but that's just me. My point is that the evidence for a Fire or Electric-typing is just too staggering. The only evidence otherwise is a flash animation with an icy background. That argument wouldn't even hold up a thin sheet of paper.
Oh and how is having two completely different Fire/Dragon & Electric/Dragon Pokemon sooo much crazier than having THREE Ice/Dragons with the same movepool minus one attack? Sense; please start to make it, Smogon.
The difference being when the secondary effect clearly involves fire (burn) and electricity (paralysis).
Nice try, though.
Edit: Not only that, but you brought up some of the most irrelevant of Pokemon to begin with.
Shiftry line lost Extrasensory as a "signature move".
The whole point of Technobuster is changing type with the drives.
And the other three? Yeah, I'm not even going to bother.
Nice try, though.
Edit: Not only that, but you brought up some of the most irrelevant of Pokemon to begin with.
Shiftry line lost Extrasensory as a "signature move".
The whole point of Technobuster is changing type with the drives.
And the other three? Yeah, I'm not even going to bother.
The secondary effects have no barring on the matter. Bad try, though.
And to continue my last post:
Surely no alternate forms like Kyurem's have ever gotten non-STAB signature moves even for one Generation!
Surely!
Side note:
I'm willing to be that Freeze Shock & Cold Flare are moves Kyurem attains when he absorbs Zekrom/Reshiram's power and keeps the move in his normal form since he now has their power. Doesn't have any really effect on the matter at hand, but that's just my quick thought.
And to continue my last post:
Surely no alternate forms like Kyurem's have ever gotten non-STAB signature moves even for one Generation!
Surely!
Side note:
I'm willing to be that Freeze Shock & Cold Flare are moves Kyurem attains when he absorbs Zekrom/Reshiram's power and keeps the move in his normal form since he now has their power. Doesn't have any really effect on the matter at hand, but that's just my quick thought.
Eventually. They were originally designed to not have STAB, which was my point. Thank you for pointing out the obvious like the child I'm sure you are...or at least "arguing" like.
Oh and you don't have a case. Your case was lost at the mention of secondary effects of the attacks. You have a series of words strewn about into sentences that kind of do not make sense. But the case for Dragon/Ice is still valid, just not your case.
There's also the chance of Fire/Ice & Electric/Ice which would get STAB from the attacks. But that's also on top of the chance that Normal Kyurem may keep the move after absorbing Zekrom/Reshiram's energy and reverting to it's normal form, which gets STAB from the moves anyway while keeping the Fire or Electric elements from the moves.
And adding to that, not having STAB on Fusion Bolt nor Fusion Flare in any of Kyurem's forms would make much, much less sense than 2 forms not getting STAB from 2 moves with the same type while his normal form does get STAB from them. Switching to 1 form to get STAB for one of it's Special Moves and having to use another form to get STAB on another is actually a very realistic design unlike the concept of 2 forms not getting STAB from either Special move and only having 2 Sky Attack equivalents which would not set the forms appart from the normal Kyurem at all.
So not go me, go Kyurem! Gotta show love to the Ice Chicken.
Based on?
Elaborate, rather than you know, wanting to avoid a very valid rebuttal to your "ice doesn't make sense" nonsense.
I'm sure these attacks were both for basic Kyurem. Let's give them very ice-centric names and secondary effects obviously referencing fire and electricity. Like the game's box art that you keep glorifying. Oh, and also the slightly frozen logos again referencing such.
Placing emphasis on chance here.
If it even gets those.
Yeah, buddy. While that "makes sense" and all that jazz, you've seem to have forgotten who are the developers of this series.
And above all else, in the event these even gain Fire/Electric attacks....what happens to said attacks upon reverting to base form? They're just going to delete them ala, Rotom? Not a great sign.
This is as detailed for an explanation as I can give on Kyurem:
(Sorry for the big text, but this really needs to be understood)
Kyurem alludes to the absence of energy and the concept of absolute zero.
Zekrom & Reshiram are Yin & Yang or energy.
Kyurem has nothing. He's a blank, white canvas. Ice represents that.
Now consider Reshiram "Red Paint". You put red paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Red.You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Fire. The Ice has been replaced by Fire.
Now consider Zekrom "Blue Paint". You put blue paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Blue. You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Electric. The Ice has been replaced by Electric.
Saying that Kyurem will still be Ice-Type after absorbing Zekrom or Reshiram is saying that the canvas is still empty when there's paint all over it.
That is the absolute best way I can describe Kyurem & his Forms.
(Sorry for the big text, but this really needs to be understood)
Kyurem alludes to the absence of energy and the concept of absolute zero.
Zekrom & Reshiram are Yin & Yang or energy.
Kyurem has nothing. He's a blank, white canvas. Ice represents that.
Now consider Reshiram "Red Paint". You put red paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Red.You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Fire. The Ice has been replaced by Fire.
Now consider Zekrom "Blue Paint". You put blue paint on the canvas, now the canvas is Blue. You gave Kyurem something. So now Kyurem isn't nothing, he's something. His Ice, or the nothingness, is gone. You gave him Electric. The Ice has been replaced by Electric.
Saying that Kyurem will still be Ice-Type after absorbing Zekrom or Reshiram is saying that the canvas is still empty when there's paint all over it.
That is the absolute best way I can describe Kyurem & his Forms.
Thanks!
I'm quoting my post because I realized posted 2 posts before the end of the page, and I'd hate to see the exact same debate brought up on page 46. I decreased the size to 3 instead of 4 to be less obnoxious.
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