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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Worldie said:
As admittedly from GF (case in point: Lugia), lot of the old legendaryes got the Dragon or Psychic (or both) types purely because they were perceived as the "strongest" types.
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I'd say this practice still remains in some form, but the pool of "strongest" types has expanded a little: Dragon, Psychic, Ghost, Dark, Steel, Fighting, and Fairy. Disregarding remakes, there hasn't been a single cover legendary without at least one of those types since Gen III. The full list of legendaries and mythicals without these types since Gen V is as follows:

(A total of 36 legendaries and 13 mythicals were introduced in this period, counting the Galarian formes of the legendary birds, but not the Ultra Beasts)
  • Tornadus
  • Thundurus
  • Landorus
  • Volcanion
  • Type: Null
  • Silvally
  • Zeraora
  • Regieleki
  • Glastrier
So that's 9/49, for those keeping score. A little below 20%. Contrast the same list from gens I-IV:
(out of a total of 28 legendaries and 9 mythicals)
  • Articuno
  • Zapdos
  • Moltres
  • Entei
  • Raikou
  • Suicune
  • Ho-Oh
  • Regirock
  • Regice
  • Groudon
  • Kyogre
  • Regigigas
  • Manaphy
  • Phione
  • Shaymin
  • Arceus
16/37, or 43%.

In addition, the types are found on all pseudo-legendaries, all secondary types of fully evolved starters from Gen V onward, all Ultra Beasts except Nihilego, Xurkitree, and Poipole, all fully evolved Alolan forms bar Golem, and all Galarian forms bar Darumaka and Darmanitan. We're at the point where not being part Dragon/Psychic/Ghost/Dark/Steel/Fighting/Fairy has become a bit of an exception for "strong" Pokémon.
 
Codraroll said:
We're at the point where not being part Dragon/Psychic/Ghost/Dark/Steel/Fighting/Fairy has become a bit of an exception for "strong" Pokémon.
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I sorta agree but I wouldn't count Fighting in those types.
They have very few representatives, basically only the Sword of Justice, Urshifu and ... Mega Mewtwo X I guess?

Personally I think the types that ""define"" legendaryes and expecially cover leges are mainly Dragon, Psychic and the new Fairy type.

Dark is really only featured as it acts as "antithesys" to Fairy and Psychic. The others just happen to be around thematically for specific legendaryes but I don't see them as recurring presence.

Oh and while UBs are tecnically legendaries, I'd also not account for them, as they are purposely designed as "otherworldy", even in typings (featuring a handful of weird combos and stat distributions).
 
Worldie said:
I sorta agree but I wouldn't count Fighting in those types.
They have very few representatives, basically only the Sword of Justice, Urshifu and ... Mega Mewtwo X I guess?
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Don't forget Meloetta, Marshadow, Zamazenta, and Galarian Zapdos.

The reason I include it is because it denotes an extraordinary proficiency with close combat. I mean, all Pokémon fight, but Fighting-types are portrayed as innately better at it.

The selection of types is also because it denotes fundamentally human traits and behaviours as opposed to natural ones. Ghost, Dragon, Fairy and to some degree Psychic (magic) are based on folklore. Fighting is usually understood as martial arts, with Dark being a sub-type of sorts - "fighting dirty". Trickery, deceit, thuggery, brutality, those are all fundamental traits of the Dark-type and also fundamentally human behaviours (although the type also comprises nocturnal animals, but its Japanese name Evil-type makes it clear this is not its primary concern). Steel is a man-made material, and Steel-type Pokémon tend to be based on human constructs such as machines.

Contrast the "elemental" types - Fire, Water, Electric, Ice, or the "found in nature" types - Normal, Flying, Bug, Grass, Poison, with Ground and Rock being a bit of both. These are things that would exist independently of humans. Electric is a bit of an edge case, as it wouldn't be harnessed without human interference, but there would still be lightning and thunder.

So it seems like the designers have a tendency to ascribe human-like traits to their most special Pokémon. This is made painfully clear with the starters, but it seeps through to the legendaries, regional forms, and regional evolutions as well. As if the natural stuff isn't special enough, there has to be a layer of otherworldly power or super strength on top of it as well. That irks me a little, because there could be done extraordinary stuff by mixing the "mundane" typings too: I believe Douglas Adams said it best: " Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? "
 
Plague von Karma said:
:bw/tauros:
TIL that Head Charge is called Afro Break in Japan which is likely why Bouffalant gets it and not Tauros.

My day is ruined.
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830Eldegoss.png

Head Charge Eldegoss when GF?
 
I was building for the ZU Ladder Achievements earlier today and ended up looking through Lampent's movepool. In Gens VI and VII only it can learn Shock Wave, this also being the entire family's only Electric-Type attack. I don't know of any other instances where Shock Wave is the only Electric-Type move learned by a family, but regardless it certainly strikes me as odd in this case. What's different above Shock Wave that doesn't apply to Thunderbolt and the like?
 
Celever said:
I was building for the ZU Ladder Achievements earlier today and ended up looking through Lampent's movepool. In Gens VI and VII only it can learn Shock Wave, this also being the entire family's only Electric-Type attack. I don't know of any other instances where Shock Wave is the only Electric-Type move learned by a family, but regardless it certainly strikes me as odd in this case. What's different above Shock Wave that doesn't apply to Thunderbolt and the like?
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The Abra line is also kind of similar; though in addition to Shock Wave it also gets Thunderpunch (well, obvious why it gets this but not Chandelure), Thunder Wave and Charge Beam. I think like Alakazam, due to the skyhigh Special Attack it's partly due to balance that it doesn't get more powerful Electric-type moves as coverage; though I'm not sure why it doesn't get stuff like Thunder Wave and Charge Beam.
 
Celever said:
I was building for the ZU Ladder Achievements earlier today and ended up looking through Lampent's movepool. In Gens VI and VII only it can learn Shock Wave, this also being the entire family's only Electric-Type attack. I don't know of any other instances where Shock Wave is the only Electric-Type move learned by a family, but regardless it certainly strikes me as odd in this case. What's different above Shock Wave that doesn't apply to Thunderbolt and the like?
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Here are all the Pokemon that can learn Shock Wave and no other Electric-type move.

just shock wave.PNG


And here are all the Pokemon who learn Shock Wave but don't learn any of the major Electric moves.

just shock wave and some others.PNG


(the Wild Charge mon was Igglybuff)

I don't really know why this is the case either. Shock Wave just seems like one of those moves that gets handed out somewhat at random.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Here are all the Pokemon that can learn Shock Wave and no other Electric-type move.

View attachment 290164

And here are all the Pokemon who learn Shock Wave but don't learn any of the major Electric moves.

View attachment 290167

(the Wild Charge mon was Igglybuff)

I don't really know why this is the case either. Shock Wave just seems like one of those moves that gets handed out somewhat at random.
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Slowpoke, Slowbro, Slowking, Flareon, Espeon, and Umbreon can all Learn Zap Cannon, but no other Electric move. For Drowzee and Hypno it is its only special Electric move they can learn(it can also get Thunder Punch and Thunder Wave)
 
Nokocchi said:
Slowpoke, Slowbro, Slowking, Flareon, Espeon, and Umbreon can all Learn Zap Cannon, but no other Electric move. For Drowzee and Hypno it is its only special Electric move they can learn(it can also get Thunder Punch and Thunder Wave)
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Those make some degree of sense, they learn it from a late-game TM in Gen II only. Giving Zap Cannon really good distribution was probably an attempt to make it feel like a better reward, plus early gen TMs are pretty wild anyway. Shock Wave, though, a lot of them got it in USUM or SwSh. GF should be slightly more logical by this point.
 
Celever said:
I was building for the ZU Ladder Achievements earlier today and ended up looking through Lampent's movepool. In Gens VI and VII only it can learn Shock Wave, this also being the entire family's only Electric-Type attack. I don't know of any other instances where Shock Wave is the only Electric-Type move learned by a family, but regardless it certainly strikes me as odd in this case. What's different above Shock Wave that doesn't apply to Thunderbolt and the like?
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This reminds me of something weird - I have an old guidebook for Ruby & Sapphire (the Prima Games one, I think); it's full of little "tips and tricks" sections so every time you find or receive a TM there'll be a handy little note suggesting how best to use it. Some are quite useful - it specifies that Overheat "is handy for short fights", that "Facade can turn what seems like a bad situation around", and that Bulk Up "shouldn't be wasted on a Pokemon that only uses Special moves" - but when you get Shock Wave the guide has this to say:

"Shock Wave is a handy Electric move that will never miss. Consider teaching it to a Pokemon like Zigzagoon or Wingull! But keep in mind that there are some Electric Pokemon, like Magneton, who never learn it naturally."

Always thought it was strange that they specifically drew attention to Magneton being Electric-type but not getting it by levelling up - like, yes, it's odd, but it really doesn't miss out.
 
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green_typhlosion said:
This reminds me of something weird - I have an old guidebook for Ruby & Sapphire (the Prima Games one, I think); it's full of little "tips and tricks" sections so every time you find or receive a TM there'll be a handy little note suggesting how best to use it. Some are quite useful - it specifies that Overheat "is handy for short fights", that "Facade can turn what seems like a bad situation around", and that Bulk Up "shouldn't be wasted on a Pokemon that only uses Special moves" - but when you get Shock Wave the guide has this to say:

"Shock Wave is a handy Electric move that will never miss. Consider teaching it to a Pokemon like Zigzagoon or Wingull! But keep in mind that there are some Electric Pokemon, like Magneton, who never learn it."

Always thought it was strange that they specifically drew attention to Magneton being Electric-type but not getting it - like, yes, it's odd, but it really doesn't miss it.
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Especially when it, uh, does get it so what the heck is it talking about
 
TerrickTerran said:
Wasn't Gen 3 one where the Pokemon had the TM move given to you? Been a while since I've played ORAS.
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Correct, it was a TM in Gen III and IV, and Move Tutor in Gen VI and VII. I often compare it to Water Pulse, because it is also a 60 Power special Gen III move that was a TM and Move tutor in those exact same generations, and like it many Pokemon that got it couldn't get any other Water Move(Including many non-Water Ice types and oddities like Celebi and Spiritomb, who both also got Shock Wave)

Speaking of low-power Water TMs, Bubble Beam and Water Gun were TMs in Gen I. Rattata, Raticate Cubone, Marowak, and Rhydon could learn Water Gun and Bubble Beam in Gen I, but not Water Pulse in Gen III onwards, and on the flip side, Tauros is the only Gen I Pokemon that can learn Water Pulse but not Water Gun or Bubble Beam.
 
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green_typhlosion said:
"Shock Wave is a handy Electric move that will never miss. Consider teaching it to a Pokemon like Zigzagoon or Wingull! But keep in mind that there are some Electric Pokemon, like Magneton, who never learn it naturally."

Always thought it was strange that they specifically drew attention to Magneton being Electric-type but not getting it by levelling up - like, yes, it's odd, but it really doesn't miss out.
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No, that's not the strange thing. The strange thing is them recommending to waste Shock Wave on a Zigzagoon and Wingull. Like I can see them suggesting Abra or Ralts, maybe Whismur or suggesting saving it for a Legendary. But Zigzagoon evolves to Linoone which leans Physical and Wingull, while it & Pelipper are Special Attacker, I don't see it getting any benefit from having it instead of focusing on STABs and helpful Status Moves.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
No, that's not the strange thing. The strange thing is them recommending to waste Shock Wave on a Zigzagoon and Wingull. Like I can see them suggesting Abra or Ralts, maybe Whismur or suggesting saving it for a Legendary. But Zigzagoon evolves to Linoone which leans Physical and Wingull, while it & Pelipper are Special Attacker, I don't see it getting any benefit from having it instead of focusing on STABs and helpful Status Moves.
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In-game I would argue that those distinctions matter a lot less, especially to kids and inexperienced players. Which of us didn't waste TMs that something else could have used better when we were 8? And most player guides aren't written with competitive or Battle Frontier-level play in mind.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Pelipper are Special Attacker, I don't see it getting any benefit from having it instead of focusing on STABs and helpful Status Moves.
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Shock Wave Pelipper actually ain't that bad. Especially since it's one of the best coverage options it gets, it doesn't learn any other Elec attacks, and it really helps on the water routes. Not to mention you're less likely to delete it before Juan's Kingdra starts spamming Double Team. :psywoke:
 
Very flimsy reason for why the Galar Birds don't learn Roost:

The Kanto birds have nests they return to at the Seafoam Islands, Power Plant, and Victory Road / Mt. Ember / Mt. Silver (not sure why Moltres can't make up its mind), but the Galar Birds don't have a nest and are instead nomadic, moving (or should I say roaming) around Galar with no permanent nest.
 
WELL I just read this whole thread because move speculation is extremely my shit. Here's some stuff:

Per moves that were previously learnable and no longer are:
- Ice Shard was a level-up move on the Alolan Sandshrew line in LGPE, and is gone from its set in SwSh
- Exeggutor (Kanto) learned Power Whip in LGPE, but it's gone from its set in SwSh
- Psych Up are learned by the Mankey and Snorlax lines in Gen 2 and 3 and never again
- It's since been snapped so it's whatever but Dialga/Palkia had Heal Block in Gen 4 and Gen 4 alone. Was a useful transfer move for its Z-effect.
- Xurkitree's Tail Glow was one of the only moves not "snapped" that nonetheless remains unusable in SwSh, and is gone from its moveset
Pretty much all the rest were mentioned in thread. Some of my favourites are things like Gen 1 learnsets being replicated in SwSh (look at Teleport and Reflect for the best examples, but also stuff like Lapras getting Solar Beam).

As for moves stuff SHOULD get, outside of things already mentioned in this thread (though tbh someone collating some of the oft-repeated ideas would save a LOT of double posting in this thread lol).
- Ampharos should get Tail Glow. Yes I know what its japanese name is. No I don't care and clearly neither does Game Freak. Spotlight too if it ever comes back
- Pyroar line should get Boomburst, along with Yanma. Give it to anything with even the barest sound focus. Sow chaos.
- Tornadus should get Whirlwind. Self-explanatory
- Someone upthread probably two or more years ago mentioned Bolt Strike being Thundurus' species and it should get it, do this but also give Aeroblast to Tornadus and idk, Precipice Blades to Landorus? Maybe Land's Wrath.
- Mienshao has whippy hands. Power Whip. Let's do it. Breloom too, for that matter.
- Golisopod should just get U-Turn. Maybe even Flip Turn too.
- Give Hatterene Hex, she's a WITCH damn it!!! Delphox too for that matter
- Give Chandelure Strength Sap. It fits the flavour! Also Chandy is probably not bulky enough that that would be broken anyway.
- Give Hariyama Defog by the same virtue by which it gets Whirlwind, and give Conkeldurr Whirlwind by the same virtue by which it gets Defog
- Give Parasect Crabhammer because its hand is Crab-like enough and plus it would be funny
- Give Marowak-A Fiery Dance. Is it good on it? No. Does it work? Yes.
- Give Helioptile Solar Beam. Why the hell does it not????
- Give Makuhita / Emboar Circle Throw, seems weird they don't have it!
- Give Jaw Lock to Krookodile, since it originated as its TCG move

A hell of a lot more stuff could get Teleport now that it's good, too. Plenty of Psychics still don't have it.

A brief overview of "stuff I definitely agree with from the 80-page history of this thread:
Clawitzer: Vacuum Wave, Sonic Boom
Typhlosion: Earth Power
Piplup line: Roost
Snorlax: Slack Off (it's not like it would be BUSTED with good recovery...)
Aerodactyl: Head Smash, Brave Bird (Honestly just Brave Bird is probably enough lol)
Cubone: Head Smash
Tornadus: Twister
Pidgeot: Focus Blast
Sneasel: Razor Wind
Exeggcute: Soft-Boiled
Gallade: Sacred Sword
Ampharos: Tail Glow, Dazzling Gleam, Spotlight
Wooloo: Rollout
Breloom: Poison Jab
Hitmonlee: Stomp (it DOES learn it in Go!)
Ninetales: Shadow Ball, Psychic
Bronzong: Heal Bell, Mirror Coat
Octillery: Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast
Kyurem: Icicle Crash, Frost Breath
Inteleon: Nasty Plot, Parting Shot, Laser Focus, Lock-On
Zamazenta: Body Press, Counter
Thievul: Trick/Switcheroo
Suicune: Hurricane, Defog
Scyther: First Impression
Druddigon: Dragon Rush
Kyogre: Hurricane (Is it probably busted???? Maybe)

Acupressure: Sandslash, Jolteon, Qwilfish, Samurott, Boldore & Gigalith, Excadrill, Ferroseed family, Beedrill, Cacnea, and the Chespin family (pointy)
Block: Chesnaught, Aegislash
Guillotine: Scyther, Kabutops, Mawile, Clauncher and Armaldo
Morning Sun: Groudon, Ninetales, Heliolisk
Shell Smash: Lapras, Torterra, Samurott, Armaldo
Rapid Spin: Jigglypuff, Geodude (has via event), Voltorb, Ferroseed, Klang
Tri-Attack: Weezing, Probopass, Exeggcute line, Metang/Metagross
Coil: Onix, Gyarados
Sonic Boom: Whismur line, Latis
Leech Life: Gligar, Gliscor
Strength Sap: Chandelure
Magnet Rise: Clefairy line
Swords Dance: Greninja
Circle Throw: Incineroar
Echoed Voice: Zubat, Woobat
Quiver Dance: Lumineon
Power Whip: Octillery, Frillish, Jellicent, Inkay, Malamar, Clobbopus, Grapploct, Mienshao, Eelektross, Deoxys, Politoed, Furret, Tentacruel, Arbok
Darkest Lariat: Conkeldurr
Lunge: Heracross, Pinsir, Beedrill, Scyther/Scizor, Scolipede, Escavalier, Golisopod, Drapion, Gliscor, Kabutops, Kingler, & Crawdaunt
Gravity: Orbeetle
Dual Wingbeat: Heracross, Nincada, Shedinja, Spritzee, Drampa, Eiscue
Pursuit: Poochyena, Mightyena
Whirlwind: Stunky, Skuntank, Conkeldurr
Steamroller: Blastoise, Sandslash, Cloyster, Snorlax, Typhlosion, Azumarill, Forretress, Glalie, Walrein, Darmanitan, Slurpuff, Dubwool, Centiskorch
Surf: Armaldo, Raticate
Rain Dance: Armaldo
 
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I always did find it odd that Aeroblast was Lugia's signature move. The extremely powerful special flying-type move, exception as something that just doesn't happen... is given to one of the few legendaries that doesn't have an outstanding offensive stat and is instead meant to tank. Bit odd!

Aeroblast itself is strange. I described it as 'extremely powerful', but it's actually only 100 power despite its exclusivity and 5PP. Surely it should be 120? ... and have 100% accuracy instead of 95%, come on, why does even THIS flying move get plagued with that?
 
Kurona said:
Aeroblast itself is strange. I described it as 'extremely powerful', but it's actually only 100 power despite its exclusivity and 5PP. Surely it should be 120? ... and have 100% accuracy instead of 95%, come on, why does even THIS flying move get plagued with that?
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I believe it has to do with the fact that it has a high critical-hit ratio like Slash. Mechancially it is idenitcal to Palkia's Spacial Rend. Same Power, Accuracy, PP, and effect.
 
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