please remove hurricane from noctowl's set, noctowl is weak and it needs accurate moves not powerful ones
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Format Discussion Pokemon Sun/Moon Random Battle sets
- Thread starter duck
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On the contrary, I'm of the belief that because Noctowl is so weak, it needs all the power it can get and it won't really get any mileage out of Air Slash. It has Tinted Lens and base 86 SpA (buffed from gen 6's base 76), that has to count for something, right?
Its analysis in the dex even gives it an offensive set, surprisingly, considering it only had defensive sets in previous gens! I wonder if we can tinker it to have more punch by opening it up to the possibility for Specs or even set up moves like Work Up and Agility.
I'll be honest, in terms of usefulness, I prefer utility Noctowl that can toxic stall, phase and/or remove hazards.
But I'll also be honest in saying that this work up/agility set with flyinium z (from the smogon dex) seems pretty, pretty fun to play with. \o/ And that matters more to me.
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If you change it's moves to make it an offensive mon with a z move, that'd be fine, but a roost defog whirlwind noctowl screams "utility" but has hurricane added so grass/bug/fights aren't reliably checked
Do you think Air Slash works well on a defensive Noctowl, though? It is kinda weak but I guess missing hurts even more. Or are you saying to use Night Shade exclusively?
air slash is fine since noctowl got the boost in spa, the main targets actually take a decent amount from it besides maybe meganium, and if noctowl has toxic then neutral targets are threatened as well.
night shade ok-ish, good with toxic, but i won't stress having sets this tailored in randbats
Can we add Switcheroo to regular Manectric? It only seems to run choice sets anyway, and that would let it do something that Mega Manectric cannot.
Yeah, can we guarantee STAB on Celebi? Giga, Psychic, EP, and No are it's best bets, and I get the Heal Bell, but substitute and leaf storm are both bad
Also can I have a detailed explanation of why I got Choice Scarf Beautifly?
(I assume you meant "Np" as in Nasty Plot instead of "No")
It doesn't get sub. Leaf Storm isn't bad at all. Yes, giga doesn't cause a special attack drop, but it is nowhere near as powerful. If you have set up with NP, 2 leaf storms deal substantially more, overall, than two giga drains, and 3 leaf storms (so at +2, unboosted and -2) deal, overall, the same as 3 +2 giga drains. Considering Celebi can get recover and doesn't have a high special attack to start with, leaf storm is absolutely fine.
Sure, some sets are better than others, but you'll always get at least one STAB with it. That's the nature of randbats.
It can get 4 attacking moves, hence being elligible to choiced sets. Again, I know you're probably gonna say quiver dance is better, but that's randbats, again. It sucks even with quiver, but I can tell you I've been saved in a few fights thanks to scarf + swarm bug buzz.
Turn 5
eternally withdrew Maractus!
eternally sent out Golem!
Pointed stones dug into the opposing Golem!
Noctowl used Hurricane!
It's not very effective...
(The opposing Golem lost 48% of its health!)
Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 6
Noctowl used Hurricane!
It's not very effective...
(The opposing Golem lost 46% of its health!)
The opposing Golem fainted!
Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
i missed two hurricanes on last mon ribombee as it set up and swept me
Air Slash does just as well in that particular scenario:
84 SpA Tinted Lens Noctowl Hurricane vs. 84 HP / 84 SpD Golem: 120-144 (44.1 - 52.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So:
(.7 * .7 *.801) + (.7 * .7 *.199 *.2 *.7) + (.7 * .3 *.2 * .7 *.801) = .429 [chance to hit twice in a row and KO, chance to 3KO with a Stone Miss, chance to 2KO with a Hurricane whiff and a Stone Miss]
Then, there's the chance to get confusion: ((.7 * .3) + (.7 *.7 *.7 *.199 *.3) + (.3 *.7 *.3)) *.3 = .09 [chance to get confusion on the first hit, on the second hit without it dying, or to whiff the first one and get confusion on hit 2 with Golem hitting itself]
This overlaps with the other scenarios somewhat, so it's not a neat +9% to your chance to win. Including it makes the math a little too complicated so I'm not really sure exactly what its impact is.
Air Slash is easier to calc:
84 SpA Tinted Lens Noctowl Air Slash vs. 84 HP / 84 SpD Golem: 84-98 (30.8 - 36%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
So:
(.95 * .95 *.3 *.95*.98) + (.95 *.95 *.2 *.95 *.98) + (.05 *.95*.3 *.95 *.3 *.95 *.98) = .424 [chance to hit three times and flinch once, chance to hit three times and Stone Miss, chance to miss once and flinch twice]
So in this particular situation Hurricane gives you somewhere between .5% and ~7-9% greater of a chance to win, mostly depending on whether on whether confusion lands--which honestly isn't great given the huge power differential.
So:
(.7 * .7 *.801) + (.7 * .7 *.199 *.2 *.7) + (.7 * .3 *.2 * .7 *.801) = .429 [chance to hit twice in a row and KO, chance to 3KO with a Stone Miss, chance to 2KO with a Hurricane whiff and a Stone Miss]
Then, there's the chance to get confusion: ((.7 * .3) + (.7 *.7 *.7 *.199 *.3) + (.3 *.7 *.3)) *.3 = .09 [chance to get confusion on the first hit, on the second hit without it dying, or to whiff the first one and get confusion on hit 2 with Golem hitting itself]
This overlaps with the other scenarios somewhat, so it's not a neat +9% to your chance to win. Including it makes the math a little too complicated so I'm not really sure exactly what its impact is.
Air Slash is easier to calc:
84 SpA Tinted Lens Noctowl Air Slash vs. 84 HP / 84 SpD Golem: 84-98 (30.8 - 36%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
So:
(.95 * .95 *.3 *.95*.98) + (.95 *.95 *.2 *.95 *.98) + (.05 *.95*.3 *.95 *.3 *.95 *.98) = .424 [chance to hit three times and flinch once, chance to hit three times and Stone Miss, chance to miss once and flinch twice]
So in this particular situation Hurricane gives you somewhere between .5% and ~7-9% greater of a chance to win, mostly depending on whether on whether confusion lands--which honestly isn't great given the huge power differential.
I mean, obviously at the end of the day it's a risky play either way that's mostly justified by the fact that the bird is never really worth preserving on its own. But given Noctowl's fine (though not great) speed, the flinch chance and reliability of Air Slash seems like it'd outweigh the coin flips of Hurricane. Air Slash lets you cheese matchups with slower stally types, works pretty well with Toxic, and in the worst case would at least almost guarantee at least chip damage on something to make revenge killing easier (versus a 30% chance of doing absolutely nothing before dying).
But Noctowl is weak, as you said. It would have setup on Air Slash anyway. At least you had a chance with Hurricane.
I agree with The Immortal's assessment for this situation. Air Slash Noctowl gets demolished by QD Ribombee while Hurricane will kill if it hits twice
85 SpA Noctowl Air Slash vs. +1 85 HP / 85 SpD Ribombee: 110-132 (48.4 - 58.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO
85 SpA Noctowl Hurricane vs. +2 85 HP / 85 SpD Ribombee: 122-146 (53.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
85 SpA Noctowl Air Slash vs. +1 85 HP / 85 SpD Ribombee: 110-132 (48.4 - 58.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO
85 SpA Noctowl Hurricane vs. +2 85 HP / 85 SpD Ribombee: 122-146 (53.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
it was at around 40, i just had to hit once. and is hitting 2 hurricanes really that easy a luxury? i've already said it would be acceptable on an offensive set, but when your other 3 moves are just support and your means of damage is hitting hurricane math and i don't have faith in that.
this insistence to just stick hurricane within a group of non-offensive moves+heat wave just confuses me. if you like hurricane noctowl that much just redo its set and replace whirlwind and night shade.
ngl i'm totally down for ditching night shade even on defensive noct because tinted lens good but idk if that will cause a detriment to it lol
Aeonic
we got to install microwave ovens
I got this zoroark set today - triple dark stab is kinda redundant.
Also, I'd definitely prefer air slash over hurricane over noctowl - I get the argument for extra damage to make it slightly less garbage but I think it would be much more effective as a toxic stall mon that has chip damage over time (reliable air slash), rather than a slow "wallbreaker."
Also, I'd definitely prefer air slash over hurricane over noctowl - I get the argument for extra damage to make it slightly less garbage but I think it would be much more effective as a toxic stall mon that has chip damage over time (reliable air slash), rather than a slow "wallbreaker."
Yeah, can I have an explanation for his piece of crap?
why is it always dark that gets the triple stab issues...... the available moves are all so good and with so many niche uses for each that it's hard to decide on what move should be taken out for certain combinations...
Speaking of triple stab, I got a Palkia today with Draco, Spacial Rend, D-TAIL, and hydro.
and this too
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