SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword and Shield Datamine Thread

Slush/sand rush is the hidden ability though, and they can't be bred and don't appear in the raid lists. Kaphotics mentioned theres data for a gift of the four fossils so they might be locked until then, if they even make the abilities available at all.
 
I'm probably the only one thinking about how promising Rillaboom looks, but I'm extremely excited for that mon. Strong atk, workable speed, good bulk and a great movepool. Drum beating lowering speed is just an awesome effect on top of the fact he'll be able to power it up with terrain(if or when it gets it). It's no Cinderace, but it shows promise. I could see a solid life orb attacker set used for Walllbreaking, or something a little tankier.
 
I'm probably the only one thinking about how promising Rillaboom looks, but I'm extremely excited for that mon. Strong atk, workable speed, good bulk and a great movepool. Drum beating lowering speed is just an awesome effect on top of the fact he'll be able to power it up with terrain(if or when it gets it). It's no Cinderace, but it shows promise. I could see a solid life orb attacker set used for Walllbreaking, or something a little tankier.
Adjusted attack to match Rilla but should apply:

252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 281-333 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery


Honestly it'll crack things open like a egg. It's Bulu Jr and Bulu Sr. is gone. Not something to scoff at. Should also be godly in VGC.
 
They all have Slush Rush/Sand Rush and either 75 or 55 Speed (about the same as Kabutops and Omastar respectively), depending on their bottom half.
Yeah this is gonna suck royally then
Without HA their speeds are essentially as fast as a turtle running at full speeds, you'll gonna at least have smashpass to boost their speeds and even then it's questionable if it's really practical at all

BTW the fossil mons have actually pretty decent stats all around similar to Celesteela but without the crazy typing the latter enjoyed and a lower total BST, wonder how good can they really get
 
Arctozolt seems decent as part of a doubles Trick Room team. Between its STABs and Low Kick it beats Dragons, Waters and Tyranitar, making it a pretty solid partner for Torkoal for example.
 
Well not with that attitude, you pessimist.

———

Onto the leaks: Is it just me, or does it seem like power creep hit this generation harder than usual? At least with the past two generations the power creep was due to the gimmick of that gen; this time, pokemon’s movepools have been vastly improved with things like Nasty Plot being a learnable move on a lot more mons.

And if the comments section would allow me, may I talk about Zacian for a little bit?

From what I understand, this thing has a 170 attack stat with an incredibly high speed stat as well, and an ability that gives it a free attack boost when it switches in. Also Swords Dance. It learns Play Rough and Crunch, which means unless I missed something and there was a Fire/Fairy type in the dex, the only things that resist that combination are G-Weezing, EDIT: Mawile and another Zacian. So with a Swords Dance boost, this thing is nigh unstoppable. In fact,

Zacian Life Orb / Lum Berry (status might be a good check otherwise?)
- Agility
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Crunch

^^ Choose an appropriate boosting move for the situation and go to town. If you don’t like this set, you can swap in any of the elemental fangs, Sacred Sword or Iron Head depending on how the meta develops.

On top of what I just said, it also has objectively the best defensive type in the game (2W, 9R, 2I), pretty good defensive stats on top of that, resists Extremespeed and takes little damage from the other priority moves. And it might have a signature move too (Behemoth Blade?). Like, I thought GF would have learned its lesson with Mega Rayquaza, but apparently no. I wonder if this thing is even more broken than Mega-Ray, just because it can easily tailor its movepool to counter whatever it needs to.
Zacian needs to hold his Sword for his Steel/Fairy form with 170 Atk, so no Life Orb.
Agility is hard to fit. His signature move will be important to get through Dynamax enemies, and Sacred Sword is your best bet against Zamazenta (+3 Play Rough calc would be interesting).

Zacian's Moveset in my opinion :
Swords Dance
Behemoth Strike
Play Rough
Sacred Sword

Crunch, Dig (with Dynamax) and Fire Fang might be good options for coverage but you can't cover everything and after a SD, the STABs might be enough to sweep.
You may "Counter" Scarf users with your own Dynamax as 92/115/115 with great typing won't be easy to kill after Dynamax.
 
Some First Impressions after playing the experimental SwSh post-datamine meta on the Nexus server. Unfortunately, replays couldn't be saved on that server:

Gyarados is, without a doubt, one of if not the best Dynamax Pokemon in the game (at least for OU). Moxie + Max Airstream means this dumb mon is pseudo-Dragon Dancing after each kill it gets, not to mention that its Water-STAB summons Rain to boost the power of its Waterfall even further. Weaken Rotom-W, and hardly anything's stopping this mon.

Melmetal is also really stupid. Forget everything you know about how it played in LGPE OU. It just got that much better with Iron Fist-access, EV investment, and items. So far, I've been running AV to take on special variants of Dragapult better as well as Gengar, but it can also run Thunder Wave to cripple fast mons. Only needs 12 Speed EVs to creep Toxapex. Melmetal's another Pokemon that's so dumb when Dynamax'd, as well. Not sure how its Gigantamax will fare when it's implemented compared to just regular Dynamax as the +1 Defense from Max Steelspike has been coming in clutch for me at times and sounds much more consistent than a Torment-effect, but I can be swayed as that sounds like it can mess with Choice-locked Pokemon.

Dragapult's not as dominating as I thought it was going to be, but it's still a threat to respect. Its physical movepool is quite lacking and I never bothered to use Dragon Dance. Its Special movepool is where it's at. Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Dragon Pulse (no Draco yet until it's confirmed ingame) and can even run U-turn for momentum. I did run a specially-based Mixed set with Dragon Darts to take on both types of walls better (physical and special) and it's decent, and I saw someone else use Specs and that thing is a threat. Point is, until I see this mon's true potential after the first day, I'm not convinced that it's as broken as people are making it out to be.

With everything getting stat boosts via Dynamax, it's not a surprise that Scarf Ditto's gaining a resurgence in usage to counter all of these set up sweepers. However, I did run into a specific scenario that I didn't expect to go down. I was testing with a DD Flygon and had it Dynamax'd. I was up against a Clefable and used Max-Iron Tail to grab a Defense boost while it used Stealth Rock on a predicted switch (fat-ass Clef lived on like 15-20% oml) After finishing it off, Ditto comes in to copy my boosts. Thing is, Ditto cannot copy a Dynamax Pokemon's moves, so instead of using Max Wyrmwind, it used Outrage and I survived thanks to the aforementioned +1 Defense and the fact I was still in my Dynamax form. Something to think about when using Ditto, friendos.

Watch out for Blastoise. It's a sleeper threat. Shell Smash is a gift from Arceus Himself. This meta's LUCKY that Mega Blastoise no longer exists, but regular can still get the job done thanks to Dynamax. Like Gyarados, it can set up its own Rain with Max-Hydro Pump, and it gets access to a wide range of coverage options including Ice Beam, Aura Sphere (perhaps even Focus Blast for the extra power, but Max-Aura Sphere at +2 is usually enough), Dark Pulse for stuff like Jellicent, and I've even seen someone run a Physical variant thanks to a similar Attack stat, which can run Liquidation, Earthquake for Toxapex and Electric-types, Ice Punch, and even Brick Break for Ferrothorn as well as for more Attack boosts in Dynamax. Main issues are that it has weak offensive stats so it's not doing much without a Shell Smash boost, and it suffers from 4MSS because it wants to hit as much of the meta as hard as possible, but tbf, +2 STAB Max-Hydro in the rain is so powerful on its own that it deserves respect. A shame that Life Dew doesn't act like Recover because that would have finally given Blastoise the reliable recovery it always wanted for its bulkier sets. Oh well :/

Galarian Darmanitan is dummy strong with Gorilla Tactics + Choice Scarf, basically giving it a Choice-locked DD when it enters the battle. Phenomenal strength with STAB Icicle Crash and coverage options in Flare Blitz, Superpower (which is great when Dynamax'd), and U-turn. I see this being a top-tier threat for a while, but we'll see if the meta settles down. Either way, it's never seeing/staying in UU. Way too strong for that tier.

Galarian Corsola's actually pretty underrated. Ghost-type with Eviolite compatibility giving it tremendous bulk, Will-o-Wisp, Stealth Rock, and Strength Sap for reliably recovery makes this mon one of the best defensive spin-blockers in the game in my opinion, and it's a blocker that can set up its own rocks, too. Issue is that it's passive, requiring Night Shade to dish out decent damage to most things, and it's prone to the common Knock Off, but play smart with this thing, and you'll see positive results.

Cinderace is basically Protean Greninja 2, which means it's amazing. Colorful movepool that gains STAB on everything, including Pyro Ball, U-turn, Zen Headbutt, Gunk Shot, Iron Head, and Low Kick (also gets HJK but Egg Moves aren't implemented yet) just to name a few. I haven't seen Court Change just yet, but given what it's able to do, this could be huge counterplay to hazard-stacking or screens-setting squads.
 
sounds much more consistent than a Torment-effect, but I can be swayed as that sounds like it can mess with Choice-locked Pokemon.
I think the ability of the torment effect (that also has 140-ish BP stab to go with it) is underestimated. While it can obv mess with choice locked mons, it can *also* prevent 2hkos allowing you to freely swap in a check to an enemy after Gigamax is gone/Melmetal is gone.
 
Cinderace: I actually think it might be a bit overhyped, as it is slower than Greninja, has no priority moves, and in general has a muuuuch worse movepool for abusing Protean Libero. Still it has some good stuff - Gunk Shot is wicked stuff coming off of a base 116 attacking stat and it makes Cinderace the most powerful "Poison" type in the history of the game (minus Arceus-Poison of course). Cinderance might also be able to utilize Protean defensively in a way Gren couldn't with slightly better bulk and access to a decent steel move in Iron Head - getting to become a Steel-type on the fly is pretty powerful. I think "Worse Greninja" might end up in UU...if it wasn't for his seemingly exclusive access to the hot new move Court Change on top of all this. We'll need to test to see if Court Change is lolbroken or "just okay" but on its face the ability to completely flip the script on hazards and set-up is a HUGE deal.
Sorry but I dont think you could possibly be more wrong here. This thing is slower than gren yes, but barely. 119 speed is still quite fast. It's attack stat at 116 is much higher than greninja's sp.atk at 103. As for moves to abuse, gren's sole move over 100bp was hydro pump (it had gunk shot yes but that's a physical move which wasnt greninja's main offensive stat despite the move seeing some usage). This thing has a base 120 fire move in pyro ball that doesnt really have a significant drawback (90% accuracy and 8pp are all there are and those arent big deals. It's superior to hydro pump). It has gunk shot as well and is in a far better position to abuse it. IT HAS HIGH JUMP KICK (egg move) which makes that 3 high power stab moves. It gets zen for mons like toxapex. It will be better able to abuse u-turn than gren ever was. The list of reasons why this thing is more than likely going to be more lethal than gren ever was continues. You might want to rethink your stance on that "worse greninja" claim
 
Last edited:
Well not with that attitude, you pessimist.

———

Onto the leaks: Is it just me, or does it seem like power creep hit this generation harder than usual? At least with the past two generations the power creep was due to the gimmick of that gen; this time, pokemon’s movepools have been vastly improved with things like Nasty Plot being a learnable move on a lot more mons.

And if the comments section would allow me, may I talk about Zacian for a little bit?

From what I understand, this thing has a 170 attack stat with an incredibly high speed stat as well, and an ability that gives it a free attack boost when it switches in. Also Swords Dance. It learns Play Rough and Crunch, which means unless I missed something and there was a Fire/Fairy type in the dex, the only things that resist that combination are G-Weezing, EDIT: Mawile and another Zacian. So with a Swords Dance boost, this thing is nigh unstoppable. In fact,

Zacian Life Orb / Lum Berry (status might be a good check otherwise?)
- Agility
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Crunch

^^ Choose an appropriate boosting move for the situation and go to town. If you don’t like this set, you can swap in any of the elemental fangs, Sacred Sword or Iron Head depending on how the meta develops.

On top of what I just said, it also has objectively the best defensive type in the game (2W, 9R, 2I), pretty good defensive stats on top of that, resists Extremespeed and takes little damage from the other priority moves. And it might have a signature move too (Behemoth Blade?). Like, I thought GF would have learned its lesson with Mega Rayquaza, but apparently no. I wonder if this thing is even more broken than Mega-Ray, just because it can easily tailor its movepool to counter whatever it needs to.

Final comment: Why is greninja back in these games? And why does it look like a furry football player too?
ok why do you need agility with 140 speed base stat ;/

if 140 doesn't satisfy you for speed nothing will lol
zacian is a really really fast boi or girl if you read it's pokedex entry

it also can't hold items unless you use the inferior base form
 
Because Will-O-Wisp is a move for a physically defensive pokemon but the issue I think there is fire types check it anyways.

---

As fun as Zen Mode is, it won't be reliable except maybe in some niche VGC/Doubles strategies. Instead I posit a band or scarf gorilla tactics set that could turn out amazing. U-Turn, Icicle Crash, and Superpower are already more than enough to make it viable. Meanwhile it has Stone Edge, Earthquake, Zen Headbutt, Iron Head, and Flare Blitz for coverage. So many great options to go with.
WOW is not a move for physically defensive pokemon. Gengar is not a physically defensive mon. Being physically defensive does not mean you get wow even when it clearly doesnt make sense
 
I actually think Zacian might be better with just 4 offensive moves.
His initial power and his natural bulk are so good that it can just wallbreak with ease.
Plus you can use Max Fighting move if you want to raise your attack while keeping offensive pressure.
Something like : Behemoth Strike/Play Rough/Sacred Sword/Crunch
 
I've been looking around Twitter and the front page of this thread, but couldn't find some info. Do we know:
◊ IVs for g-max?
◊ If the game generates new encounters when you reset? Meaning, could you soft reset for IV/HA/Abilities?
◊ Exactly what numeric changes to stats are brought by g-max and d-max, if any?
 
Hi guys :)
I have a simple question for you.
To be clear, I am and will always remain a total newbie as far as competitive/minmax goes, so some of my questione will sound pretty dumb, I'm afraid.

so, I was checking Inteleon moveset, and I was reading people's opinions online and there's one detail I don't understand.

Some people online is talking about a 'possible' Critical set, running Sniper + Focus Energy + scope Lens to achieve 100% Critical Hit.

now, as I said, I'm not a competitive player, but for what I understand, Critical Hits just do x1.5 damage, right?
and likewise, having +1 stage in a stat means x1.5, is it right?

so basically, does this mean that after one Work Up, Inteleon's +1SpA Hydropump is going to inflict the same damage as a Critical Hit Hydropump?

'cause that means that a "100% Critical Hit - Build" is totally pointless/worthless... am I reading something wrong? °_°

EDIT: also, do we know the detail of the new move "Breaking Swipe" ?
 
Hi guys :)
I have a simple question for you.
To be clear, I am and will always remain a total newbie as far as competitive/minmax goes, so some of my questione will sound pretty dumb, I'm afraid.

so, I was checking Inteleon moveset, and I was reading people's opinions online and there's one detail I don't understand.

Some people online is talking about a 'possible' Critical set, running Sniper + Focus Energy + scope Lens to achieve 100% Critical Hit.

now, as I said, I'm not a competitive player, but for what I understand, Critical Hits just do x1.5 damage, right?
and likewise, having +1 stage in a stat means x1.5, is it right?

so basically, does this mean that after one Work Up, Inteleon's +1SpA Hydropump is going to inflict the same damage as a Critical Hit Hydropump?

'cause that means that a "100% Critical Hit - Build" is totally pointless/worthless... am I reading something wrong? °_°

EDIT: also, do we know the detail of the new move "Breaking Swipe" ?
Critical hits bypass defense buffs of the opponent (veils, screens, stuff like acid armor) and attack nerfs (growl etc, burn not included), so if there is some advantage to this it's that it could potentially break walls who relied on buffing stats.
CH builds are by itself pretty niche and more like a meme set

Breaking swipe reduces all Pokemon's ATK by 1 level if they are hit.

I've been looking around Twitter and the front page of this thread, but couldn't find some info. Do we know:
◊ IVs for g-max?
◊ If the game generates new encounters when you reset? Meaning, could you soft reset for IV/HA/Abilities?
◊ Exactly what numeric changes to stats are brought by g-max and d-max, if any?
IVs for G-Max is unknown and potentially random just like every other encounters else.
New encounters are unchanged afaik, ie. you can SR as long as they are not locked.
Maxes only increase HP and increases nothing else

EDIT: done goofed, admin please combine this with my post above
 
Critical hits bypass defense buffs of the opponent (veils, screens, stuff like acid armor) and attack nerfs (growl etc, burn not included), so if there is some advantage to this it's that it could potentially break walls who relied on buffing stats.
CH builds are by itself pretty niche and more like a meme set
perfect, thank you :)
man, GF really didn't give Inteleon much to do, compared to the other 2 starters... so basically its only 'role' is to be... a threat to Cinderace thanks to its 1 more point in speed..?

Breaking swipe reduces all Pokemon's ATK by 1 level if they are hit.
but do we know type/power/phys-special ...? can't find the details anywhere
 
Hi guys :)
I have a simple question for you.
To be clear, I am and will always remain a total newbie as far as competitive/minmax goes, so some of my questione will sound pretty dumb, I'm afraid.

so, I was checking Inteleon moveset, and I was reading people's opinions online and there's one detail I don't understand.

Some people online is talking about a 'possible' Critical set, running Sniper + Focus Energy + scope Lens to achieve 100% Critical Hit.

now, as I said, I'm not a competitive player, but for what I understand, Critical Hits just do x1.5 damage, right?
and likewise, having +1 stage in a stat means x1.5, is it right?

so basically, does this mean that after one Work Up, Inteleon's +1SpA Hydropump is going to inflict the same damage as a Critical Hit Hydropump?

'cause that means that a "100% Critical Hit - Build" is totally pointless/worthless... am I reading something wrong? °_°

EDIT: also, do we know the detail of the new move "Breaking Swipe" ?
Sniper boosts the power of critical hit moves, making them do x2.25 damage as opposed to x1.5. Therefore Focus Energy for Inteleon acts as a pseudo Nasty Plot which can bypass the opponent's defensive stat boosts and also ignore Unaware.

Inteleon has a rather limited offensive movepool, with its best attacking options being Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Air Slash and U-turn. I imagine it could run a decent Choice Specs/Scarf set since despite its restricted coverage, STAB Hydro Pump coming from base 125 SpA is still going to hit hard. Interestingly though, it can actually beat Toxapex in a 1vs1 with its Focus Energy set if it runs Mud Shot!

252 SpA Sniper Inteleon Mud Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex on a critical hit: 153-180 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
So until their Sand Rush HA becomes available, would choice scarf be the best way to utilize the fossil signature moves? I'm thinking specifically for Dracozolt and Dracovish since they're the faster pair.
 
IVs for G-Max is unknown and potentially random just like every other encounters else.
New encounters are unchanged afaik, ie. you can SR as long as they are not locked.
Maxes only increase HP and increases nothing else

EDIT: done goofed, admin please combine this with my post above
Thanks! I messed up and wasn't clear about the encounters – I was referring to raid encounters, not overworld/fishing/hidden in tall grass.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out how relevant g-maxes will be for competitive and how grindy it will be to get then, since we can't breed them.

EDIT: spelling.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top